zoonation
Footballguy
No brainer imo
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RB James Cook, BUF (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
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markrc99
Footballguy
James Cook, along with Rachaad White are week 9 starts for me. Bought into the neggie on Najee & Demercado has been ruled out. Brian Robinson, I suppose. They were big time sellers on the defensive side, perhaps they now end up scoring more? Going back to the points made about the Bills, I agree that once the weather deteriorates they can often be out of their element... in their own stadium. I also agree that it's the QB doing that. I'm 100% certain Josh Allen steps to the LOS, limited only by the personnel grouping on any given play. Apart from that, if he sees that the means to run left, right or up the middle is there, he's afforded the latitude to get them in the right play.
However, Cook's height to weight ratio (5'11" 190lbs) does not lend itself to volume. Especially the times they want to line up & mash, or present that look to the defense, that's gotta be someone else. Now & again, sure, but over & over? No way. Noted already KC & Cincinnati have gotten the better of Buffalo. Allen, Allen to Diggs... it's not enough. Cook & now Kincaid, these are the teams they are there to help the Bills beat. So often wrong, besides Cook over Robinson jr, I'm also starting Kincaid over Hockenson.
However, Cook's height to weight ratio (5'11" 190lbs) does not lend itself to volume. Especially the times they want to line up & mash, or present that look to the defense, that's gotta be someone else. Now & again, sure, but over & over? No way. Noted already KC & Cincinnati have gotten the better of Buffalo. Allen, Allen to Diggs... it's not enough. Cook & now Kincaid, these are the teams they are there to help the Bills beat. So often wrong, besides Cook over Robinson jr, I'm also starting Kincaid over Hockenson.
electric Ape
Footballguy
We tend to evaluate coaches simplistically by the limited part of their job we get a window into, their game day decisions. But being a coach is really 25 jobs in one. It’s putting together the right staff and delegating flawlessly. It’s being authentic and an example and a leader of men which means every day working 3x harder than you expect anyone under you to work. Its dynamically tailoring your approach to your personnel each and every season and constantly evolving and learning. It’s understanding the mind of your opponent and constantly remaining one step ahead of him. It’s standing in front of a room of 53 killers and would be mutineers, every one an alpha, every one of them looking for weakness, and keeping all 53 in check and loyal. It’s getting 53 young millionaires from a vastly different generation to buy in and care and sacrifice their youth to your cause and your program. Its being a wizard at PR and choosing your words with precision every single day. It’s one of the hardest jobs imaginable and many if not most will fail at it, often spectacularly.
So criticize a questionable decision or call a failed coach a failure, those actions are more than fair. But never fall into the trap of thinking the job is easy or that you could do it or reducing it to a smart / dumb binary.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
The leadership aspect of coaching is something fans who criticize them really do not seem to understand.
Most of you would be laughed out of the room, dunked head first in the hot tub or taped to the goal posts for trying to tell them what to do.
Most of you would be laughed out of the room, dunked head first in the hot tub or taped to the goal posts for trying to tell them what to do.
bj diggy
Footballguy
Likely not before the coaching staff being fired for sucking.
irish eyes
Footballguy
Pretty much like every other week. I couldn't give him away for a bag of chips in my league.
irish eyes
Footballguy
And that's why buffalo will go nowhere in the playoffs.
Drake Hater
Footballguy
Sucks. He's a great back that could really thrive elsewhere.
irish eyes
Footballguy
Exactly, McDummy is an awful coach. Just wants Allen slinging it all game long and running all over the place.
fatness
Footballguy
Pretty sure that falls on the coaching.
He can't pass block, and he doesn't break tackles.
He can catch, and he's the only guy with any quickness, but meh.
He's in the role he's earned.
Jacob's Ladder
Footballguy
It's all on Cook, right? Yet Moss can thrive in Indy? Sorry, Josh Allen's hero ball can't win big games. It is what it is. If Cook's in the game, you think unproductive flat routes or lining up wide and just standing there is a proper utilization of his talents? He's "earned" his way on the field and is being used a decoy, but not in a smart way. I'm convinced teams don't even have to cover Cook. Allen doesn't throw him the ball even if he's wide open. Allen would rather force one into double coverage. Watch them play, Allen locks in on receivers deep and does not see the field well. He's not a pocket QB, maybe he can't be. He's Carson Wentz 2.0 with a bigger arm.
Boston
Footballguy
I think he was always projected to be in some form of RBBC from the get-go...it is the way the league is going and he just does not fit the profile of a RB that is going to hog the touches...I think he has the potential to be James White at his best which would be very effective in fantasy but you really have to wonder whether the Buffalo offense is the right fit for that type of back.
zamboni
Footballguy
I agree with this. I think we wanted Cook to be more than what he is, and to be fair, signs were pointing that way. I can see the James White comparison, but a big difference is that Brady would have no issue checking down to him 8-10 times a game. Unless he changes his game, Allen isn't going to do that.
Drake Hater
Footballguy
I definitely noticed that the Bengals defense was laying off those RB routes in favor of tighter WR coverage.
Jacob's Ladder
Footballguy
James White may be a decent comparison but I don't think it's Cook's ceiling. I also don't think think Cook ever comes close to reaching his ceiling because of who drafted him and who he plays for. His prime years will simply fade to black.
For the record, James White ran a ton of different routes and screens. Brady would check down if that's what the D gave him, but at the same time, their offense game planned for White. It's rare to see Cook ever do anything more than run a flat route or just stand on the sideline after lining up wide. He's tailormade for outs, drags, wheel routes, and angle routes. He runs none of that. He's not part of their offensive gameplan, he's an afterthought. If they run a screen it always fails because they don't set it up. It's quickly sniffed out and blown up by the D.
Regardless of your thoughts on Cook's pass blocking or size, he's the most explosive option they have in the backfield. If they're not going to threaten usage, he shouldn't even be on the field. He's not even a good decoy at that point.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
While I don't think the coaches get a free pass here I do think the issue is more Josh Allen than the coaches.
As far as pass blocking I don't think they need Cook to do that. He is better suited to be a receiving threat than a blocker. Yes there are some blitz packages that can force the RB into a protection role, but those blitzes can also be negated by making Cook a consistent receiving threat that needs to be accounted for. That takes a defender out of the blitz.
However Allen does not use Cook as a receiver enough for this to happen, so defenses ignore Cook and just send an extra rusher instead. It's up to Allen to make defenses pay for this, but that does not happen enough.
Look at CMC and other RB receiving threats, defenses account for them and they are not asked to block much. No reason why the same could not be true for Cook.
As far as pass blocking I don't think they need Cook to do that. He is better suited to be a receiving threat than a blocker. Yes there are some blitz packages that can force the RB into a protection role, but those blitzes can also be negated by making Cook a consistent receiving threat that needs to be accounted for. That takes a defender out of the blitz.
However Allen does not use Cook as a receiver enough for this to happen, so defenses ignore Cook and just send an extra rusher instead. It's up to Allen to make defenses pay for this, but that does not happen enough.
Look at CMC and other RB receiving threats, defenses account for them and they are not asked to block much. No reason why the same could not be true for Cook.
Cook and Moss have nothing in common other than the team that drafted them. They are entirely different types of players. Moss himself has said he had a work ethic problem coming out of college, and getting dumped by Buffalo was a wake up call for him.
I will agree that Cook could be used more in the passing game, but the issue has been when he is used he doesn't do enough after the catch.
I will strongly disagree that Josh Allen is Carson Wentz with a bigger arm. Josh Allen is arguably the best player in the NFL in my eyes, and the Bills would be the Bears without him. He does play hero ball, but A) Its been very successful, and B) If he didn't I'm not sure they'd have much of an offense at all.
When he came out as a prospect, I thought Nyhiem Hines was a fair comp for Cook, but I also expected him to be a 4th rounder and not a 2nd, so I do wonder if expectations were too high.
I do think Cook might have been more involved if Kincaid weren't in the middle of a big breakout. Kincaid is looking like he's gonna be somewhere on the Ertz/Andrews spectrum, and Diggs is one of the best WRs in the NFL. Only so many targets to go around.
I will agree with another post, that perhaps using Cook on some downfield routes would be a nice change of pace, but he's not a priority, and there is no real reason for him to be.
Jacob's Ladder
Footballguy
Josh Allen best player in the NFL? 
He might be the most athletically gifted QB in the NFL, but so was Ryan Leaf...
Cook can't do anything after the catch? It's because he's never given an opportunity. Outside of a few poorly designed screens sprinkled throughout the season, find me a pass play designed around Cook's talents. Maybe a few outs then a wheel route? An angle route in this offense with Cook's 9 weeks of flat routes would yield huge plays. All of this would help Buffalo move forward.
And yes, Moss is relevant. Not because his skillset is similar to Cook, because the Bills couldn't find a way to unlock it. Put Cook on a team with any sort of imagination and a QB that's willing to take what the D gives them and he would thrive.
It doesn't matter though. Cook's where he's at and that's not going to change.
He might be the most athletically gifted QB in the NFL, but so was Ryan Leaf...Cook can't do anything after the catch? It's because he's never given an opportunity. Outside of a few poorly designed screens sprinkled throughout the season, find me a pass play designed around Cook's talents. Maybe a few outs then a wheel route? An angle route in this offense with Cook's 9 weeks of flat routes would yield huge plays. All of this would help Buffalo move forward.
And yes, Moss is relevant. Not because his skillset is similar to Cook, because the Bills couldn't find a way to unlock it. Put Cook on a team with any sort of imagination and a QB that's willing to take what the D gives them and he would thrive.
It doesn't matter though. Cook's where he's at and that's not going to change.
Jacob's Ladder
Footballguy
Ryan Leaf comparison might be taking a little far with Allen. More accurate and fair may be Jeff George if JG wasn't a locker room cancer. Either way, Allen needs to lean on his teammates' strengths more.
Sunday Gravy
Footballguy
Watching this closely the last 5-6 weeks, there's not one thing Lat Murray does that's better than Cook. Not pass blocking, not short yardage runs, not catching the ball. Not one. Yet he's out there in key spots over Cook every game.
That's not on Allen. This coaching staff is inept. It's why they've come up short every January. Window for them is closing and they never thought they should change a thing on their offense. Same thing every season.
That's not on Allen. This coaching staff is inept. It's why they've come up short every January. Window for them is closing and they never thought they should change a thing on their offense. Same thing every season.
Jacob's Ladder
Footballguy
Cook reminds me a lot of Lamar Miller in how he runs but also in his underusage. Maddening stuff to watch.
zamboni
Footballguy
Seems like Murray is a better pass blocker, which is why he's probably in there more than he should at his age. Perhaps the main reason they signed Fournette is that he's an even better pass blocker (or so the reports go) and somewhat younger. Wouldn't surprise me to see Fournette activated for next Sunday.
Jacob's Ladder
Footballguy
LeSean McCoy 5'10'' 198, now imagine James Cook running the routes LM did. Unleash the beast!
ETA - Maybe the coaching staff is outsmarting us all. Using Cook on flat routes the entire season until defenses get lazy. Then that one time they need a big play they actually let Cook run an angle route. TD.
www.youtube.com
ETA - Maybe the coaching staff is outsmarting us all. Using Cook on flat routes the entire season until defenses get lazy. Then that one time they need a big play they actually let Cook run an angle route. TD.
Angle Route Mccoy vs Steelers
Empty formation, angle route to Mccoy.-~-~~-~~~-~~-~-Please watch: "Bills CB Kaiir Elam: Is He NOW a Zone Cornerback?!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrFnp...
www.youtube.com
It's funny how both posters on this board and commentators on TV think that Murray is a good pass blocker. Last night, one of them said Murray was "the best pass blocker by far" of the Bills RBs.
He might have been a good pass blocker back in the day, but he's horrible now. When I watch the Bills and he's in the game, I make it a point to watch Murray on pass plays. He eithers flares out or he makes a weak attempt to block, and have seen him whiff completely at times. While Cook is certainly not great at pass blocking, he's at least as good as Murray and definitely makes a better effort at it.
Nothing against Murray, but he is not good in pass protection and I can't figure out why he is on the field in the two minute drills when he can't block and can't break off a big play if he does happen to get the ball.
Bills are one of my favorite teams to watch because of Allen and his willingness to throw deep. Lot of fun
But watching both Mahomes and Allen play yesterday, you can see that Mahomes is content to take what the defense gives him and Allen isn't. Just one example was the pick Allen threw last night. Play wasn't open and had zero chance of success. Cook was about 5 yards directly in front of Allen with nobody around him for about 7/8 yards. Easy dump off and probably a 15 yard gain. Instead he throws an ugly pick into strong coverage. Big swing in the game on that one play.
Wigglytuff's Gruff
Footballguy
They seem like a badly coached team.
Let Josh be the hero, hope he does something. That's basically their plan.
Not that I think Cook is particularly good but their run scheme is beyond basic. He was always going to fall short of expectations.
Let Josh be the hero, hope he does something. That's basically their plan.
Not that I think Cook is particularly good but their run scheme is beyond basic. He was always going to fall short of expectations.
RenegadeRoy
Footballguy
Every game this year there's been a handful of those plays. Cook wide open for a small gain but Allen forces a downfield pass that's uncatchable.
He’s averaging almost 5 yards a carry and his best games from a YPC standpoint have been games when he has gotten 15 plus carries.
Granted he’s not an elite talent like McCaffrey or Barkley but he’s certainly effective and should get more action than he did last night. The only targets he gets are dump offs with no blockers in front. No actual screen plays. Just seems odd to me.
Maybe Josh has so much arm talent that he thinks he can make any throw.
Joe Namath once said that was his big issue as a young QB. Thought he could make any throw. Said that a big part of the Jets winning the Super Bowl was because he started taking what the defense gave him. Still made big plays but didn’t force them.
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eagles 123
Footballguy
With Fournette touches looming and consistent dips in production looks like Cook is cooked.
I said this weeks ago. People called me absurd when I said he was droppable. Hes definitely not playable.
Man, I disagree with this entire last page practically.
Murray is a good pass blocker, he was good last night too. Cook wasn't bad last night, but his pass blocking is what got Josh Allen's shoulder hurt in the first place. Its been a liability for most of the season. I thought Allen played well last night. Not his fault Burrow was lights out, and the Bills D couldn't get them off the field.
Fantasy wise, I think James Cook is around RB25 or so. He's a flex, but not somebody I'd want to rely on. He's a boom/bust runner, who broke some big plays against the Raiders and Commanders (in blowout wins, back when the defense was healthy) but has otherwise been mostly ineffective. I won't disagree that Cook is a better runner than Murray, but saying Murray does nothing better is obviously not true.
Murray is a good pass blocker, he was good last night too. Cook wasn't bad last night, but his pass blocking is what got Josh Allen's shoulder hurt in the first place. Its been a liability for most of the season. I thought Allen played well last night. Not his fault Burrow was lights out, and the Bills D couldn't get them off the field.
Fantasy wise, I think James Cook is around RB25 or so. He's a flex, but not somebody I'd want to rely on. He's a boom/bust runner, who broke some big plays against the Raiders and Commanders (in blowout wins, back when the defense was healthy) but has otherwise been mostly ineffective. I won't disagree that Cook is a better runner than Murray, but saying Murray does nothing better is obviously not true.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Making Cook the scapegoat for a struggling and inefficient offense is a weird flex.
The Bills look unmotivated, predictable, and simply can't run the ball well regardless of who's getting the touches. They also never really committed to the run last night as they did earlier in the season.
a plodding Lenny likely isn't going to fare well in that offense either. That they don't throw the ball to their running backs isn't Cook's fault, nor is the fact that they struggle to run-block. They also constantly running Cook into the pile, when he has so much more success running outside.
Earlier this year Cook was producing just fine. Seems like the Bills have bigger issues than who's running the football.
If they can turn that around, Cook should be just fine. Color me skeptical though. You could point to 20 different factors for last night's ineptitude.
Jacob's Ladder
Footballguy
Someone really needs to put together a montage of 2023 Latavius Murray pass blocking. Anyone saying he's excelling as a pass blocker simply isn't watching the games. He might understand the schemes and responsibilities better than Cook at this stage, but he's sluggish and struggles to get to his spot whether it's running the ball, running a route or trying to block.
Sunday Gravy
Footballguy
Just had to look on the other side of this game. Allen could learn a lot from Burrow.
Was going to post just this. People seriously posting in here for what Murray was in the past, like he’s still good at those things. It’s nonsense. 75% of the time he’s in there to block he isn’t even blocking! Dude just runs out into the flat and waits. Funny thing is Allen may not always throw it to him, but he seemingly always looks his way. Whereas with Cook he doesn’t even look to him (except for a few chunk plays last night). Murray isn’t even good at the GL. He’s been stuffed numerous times.
McDermott is so overrated. He wouldn’t even have a job if it wasn’t for Allen’s Superman heroics and bailing the team out. They could have easily lost against both Miami and NE this year. It’s why the Bills will never make it past the likes of the Chiefs/Bengals.
Murray was not good in pass protection last night. He was bad and looked disinterested. Truly a minimalist is that area.
Jacob's Ladder
Footballguy
And like the previous poster wrote, a lot of times he's in there for his "pass blocking" he just runs the same dumb flat route Cook is forced to run all the time. Bills simply aren't creative play callers in any way, shape, or form. If Allen makes more great plays than terrible ones, they win. If not, it's a loss. They can't adapt, they refuse to adjust. There is no in between for the team. That's why they will never win a Super Bowl. One size all philosophies like theirs simply don't hold up over the long term. Allen will have down games. Opponents will attack them in different ways. Weather changes. Officials are not consistent. There are so many reasons while they'll continue to fail but for some reason they still don't adjust. This staff will stick around until they're forced to start dumping pieces due to cap issues, then they'll get fired and Allen will be well past his prime. Elite talent, but too arrogant and rigid to ever be on Mahomes/Burrow level.
Jacob's Ladder
Footballguy
Disinterested is right! Methinks he knows he's about to be cut in favor of Fournette. Makes it even more maddening that staff continued to try to force that slug into the game.
Football Jones
Footballguy
Yeah, I also disagree Cook is a comparable pass-blocker. Cook would be in there if he was. I’m sure they get graded on that skill by the coaching staff so I have to seriously question if he’s a better pass-blocker than Murray or even comparable, game in & game out.
For one, Cook is tiny. Not sure what happened on the play earlier in the season when Allen got hurt, but it wouldn’t take much to run him over, even on a safety blitz, much less by a huge DL.
A lot of the other stuff I agree with, but let’s not pretend he’s a feature back-type. Cook seems to get swallowed up rather easily at times.
He may not be a feature back but sharing time with Murray almost equally last night is off the hook foolish. But obviously the Buffalo coaching staff is subpar or they wouldn't be 5-4 with all the talent they have on the offensive side of the ball.
Anyone who thinks Murray is a better pass blocker and cares enough to check with their own eyes (I know most don't), take a look at the game last night.
Football Jones
Footballguy
Like I said, I do agree with your general sentiment. Murray isn’t the answer.
Singletary and Cook was a better combo last year than Cook and Murray. In 2022, Singletary (11/13) and Allen (13/14) were money on "and one." Cook is better as a complimentary back. I think they hoped that Harris or Murray would've been a bigger and better version of Singletary.
Also, scoring down in the NFL ... with a few exceptions - Stroud and Minshew led teams! Fans in Miami, SF, and KC are second-guessing their offensive play calling. Defenses are catching up some.
Also, scoring down in the NFL ... with a few exceptions - Stroud and Minshew led teams! Fans in Miami, SF, and KC are second-guessing their offensive play calling. Defenses are catching up some.
He did a very good job last night helping Dawkins against a guy among the NFL leaders in sacks. It was the 2 guards who gave up most of the pressure, and the Bills staff decided that was less of a threat than Hendrickson was.
I have no stake in Cook, Murray or Fournette, I would prefer if Murray wasn't out there so much too. But Cook has done zero to earn more snaps, and I don't see any of Buffalo's losses having anything to do with their RB usage, or really the offense in general other than NY in week 1. The Bills issue is injuries have made them a bad defense, and they have been getting crushed in time of possession, not just by the Bengals, but even NE.
Personally, I wouldn't mind more max protect with just 3 or 4 guys in routes for Buffalo. Or a bigger emphasis on the hurry up offense they have done at the start of each of the last 2 games.
Every time Buffalo uses a QB sneak its as effective as it is for Philly, they just attempt it less. I don't know why. That one time Allen fumbled last year against the Vikings is the only time it didn't work.
It was a blitzing LB (Okereke or McFadden for NYG) and Cook was barely a speedbump. He also had one in the same game where he whiffed completely, and another one that got Allen decked by a blitzing DB (in the NE game) where he went the wrong way, and somebody (a coach) was screaming at him when he came to the sideline.
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