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For People Who Would Normally Vote Republican But Aren't Comfortable With Trump (1 Viewer)

Joe Bryant

Joe Bryant

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This may be useless, but thought I'd take a chance to see if we could have a real conversation on this one without insults or snarkiness. Please be cool and discuss.

The George Will leaving thing is pretty fascinating.

John Fugelsang had an interesting observation: 

George Will represents all the Frankensteins who only disown their monster after it's already left them for a newer mad scientist.
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Others seemed glad to have Will out. For others, I'm sure it's a negative. 

Bryan Cranston wrote: 

Conservative republican @GeorgeWill just showed us what courage looks like by rejecting Trump. Are you listening @SpeakerRyan? Do you care?
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George Will talked about what to do:

“Make sure he loses,” he said. “Grit their teeth for four years and win the White House.”
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Brett Decker countered with: 

.@GeorgeWill says "grit" your teeth, accept 4 years of #Hillary. Except that will be 8 years & a leftwing #SupremeCourt for a generation
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Fair points all. 

For you folks who would normally vote for the Republican candidate, what do you think about this?

J

 
I think Brett Decker makes the best point. A lot of S. Ct. cases seem to be determined by the separation aspects of the Constitution, and I have an interest in admin law because so much of our daily business transactions and personal transactions run through the auspices of the executive branch. How the separation of powers is determined and how the reach of certain Congressional laws will be so enormous. It's really a sad time for Republicans, and I wouldn't blame anybody for holding their nose and voting for Trump.

At the same time, I won't. I fear that Republicans have made a grave mistake in nominating him, and I normally vote conservative, which generally means Republican or Libertarian. 

 
Am Republican, won't vote Trump. Likely writing in at this point, very tiny chance I'd vote Hillary. 

Entire thing is a huge #### show. 

 
I don't see myself voting for Trump.  The ONLY thing that is keeping it ever so slightly open is the Supreme Court nominee.  However, I'm not sure that's enough for me - still weighing it and probably will up until the day of the election.

I would NEVER vote for Hillary based on conscience alone (she represents ALL that is wrong with politics), so at this point I have no candidate.

 
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Lean Democratic. Have voted Republican - Reagan, GHWB. Have voted 3rd party - Libertarian in '12. Would not consider voting for Clinton or Trump this election. Cranston mirrors my thoughts at the INCREDIBLE lack of political courage evinced by the party's leadership ~ as if strongly repudiating the ridiculousness of a possible "President Trump" even required courage. Held out hope that Speaker Ryan would lead a common sense rally for GOP sanity. Extremely disappointed that he too cravenly fell in line with the sinking GOP/Trump ship of stupid.

Holding out hope that the convention torpedoes the Trump ship, and brings forth a relatively "normal" Republican to take down Clinton.

(Too, holding out hope that Director Comey icebergs the titanic ship of Clinton graft, corruption, entitlement, and incompetence.)  

 
There are alternatives for both Republicans and Democrats.  Gary Johnson if you lean right,  Jill Stein if you lean left. 

 
I've been all over the map: Perot, (skip), Gore, Bush, McCain, Romney.

I can't vote for Trump - he's repulsive.  I really don't care for Hillary.  Opinion matchers have said for the whole election that I matched up most with Gary Johnson.  Everything seems to point me to vote libertarian this time, so I'll just do it.  If it's throwing away a vote, fine.

 
I think Johnson is the easy choice as an R-leaning anti-Hillitite.

I don't think that R leadership can endorse Johnson though. They risk too many people deciding they like the "L" more than the "R".

 
Poppa said:
Holding out hope that the convention torpedoes the Trump ship, and brings forth a relatively "normal" Republican to take down Clinton.
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That's the thing though. Any standard, or even semi-standard Republican would be demolished by Hillary. As f###ed as Trump being the guy is, the lead Hillary holds in the polls now would double under any other GOP candidate.

 
Well I know what I will get with a Hillary president. I don't know what I will get with Trump. So holding nose and voteing trump with hopes he will at least get the SC pick right. That's the most important thing in this election. 

 
I'm an Ind. Conservative fiscally, but socially liberal. I'm voting Clinton. I am not a fan, but she has a lot of experience and I trust she can at least maintain. My main goal is preventing a Trump presidency as I don't think he is at all cut out for the job. While I understand a vote for Stein or Johnson, I worry that voting for anyone but Clinton could only help Trump.

 
I absolutely positively refuse to vote for Hillary for reasons I wont get into so as not to hijack the thread.

I think I represent a decent segment of republicans... I'm a fiscal conservative who believes the role of the federal govt is to ensure the rights and safety of its citizens and provide infrastructure &  utilities that can't be done profitably or at a fair price by local governments or the private sector.

As far as social issues go, some of my fellow republicans like to deride me as too liberal. I distrust people until I have a reason to trust them. Race, religion, gender/gender identification, regional differences etc are not relevant in who has rights. 

Liberals like to taunt me because I support ALL the amendments to the Constitution (see 2A threads), not just the ones that are comfortable.

I feel a duty to vote, but I may sit this one out for the first time in my life (I'm a young 56 ;)  ).

 
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I also lean dem, but do vote rep based on candidates.  With Hillary we getfourmore years about the same of what we have has, which is fine,  I see moderate economic growth, protection of social security, and we will continue the war on terrorism.  All important to me.  With Trump I not sure what you get.  Hillary sees like the safe pick.  Not interested in distribution of wealth, health care reform or free cheese

 
BowieMercs said:
I absolutely positively refuse to vote for Hillary for reasons I wont get into so as not to hijack the thread.

I think I represent a decent segment of republicans... I'm a fiscal conservative who believes the role of the federal govt is to ensure the rights and safety of its citizens and provide infrastructure &  utilities that can't be done profitably or at a fair price by local governments or the private sector.

As far as social issues go, some of my fellow republicans like to deride me as too liberal. I distrust people until I have a reason to trust them. Race, religion, gender/gender identification, regional differences etc are not relevant in who has rights. 

Liberals like to taunt me because I support ALL the amendments to the Constitution (see 2A threads), not just the ones that are comfortable.

I feel a duty to vote, but I may sit this one out for the first time in my life (I'm a young 56 ;)  ).
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So, to the question heading this thread, why not vote Trump?

 
cobalt_27 said:
So, to the question heading this thread, why not vote Trump?
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Because he strikes me as a moron with a lot of money and an ego to match. Obama entered office knowing nothing about governing. Look how that turned out. Trump knows even less.  Bluster is not a qualification. This country has become a reality show with Trump & Hillary as contestants.  I'd rather not vote than vote against someone.

 
I've voted for both Dem and Repub, but I am registered as Republican.  In this case I'm likely voting Johnson.

 
MaxThreshold said:
I don't see myself voting for Trump.  The ONLY thing that is keeping it ever so slightly open is the Supreme Court nominee.  However, I'm not sure that's enough for me - still weighing it and probably will up until the day of the election.

I would NEVER vote for Hillary based on conscience alone (she represents ALL that is wrong with politics), so at this point I have no candidate.
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:goodposting:

This perfectly describes my perspective on this.

 
He has a message that resonates with me, but his delivery is so frustrating. When he talks about certain issues that I know he's educated in, I seem to be able to get behind him. When he strays off those items or gets personal, I cringe. 

It's good to see you back. Hopefully you'll stick around. I've noticed a sharp decline here since you've become more hands-off. 

 
Joe, your question doesn't apply to me since I am a Hillary supporter. But I Have some very good friends and family members who have been debating this very topic for weeks. 

In a sense it doesn't matter what they do, since my state of California is a blue state (Hillary will win it). That gives conservatives here a greater freedom than they might feel in a swing state in which they are under more pressure. 

To date, of the conservatives I know, my father in law is reluctantly voting for Trump. My dad is not voting for President. I have one friend voting for Hillary and one for Johnson. 

 
cobalt_27 said:
So, to the question heading this thread, why not vote Trump?
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Lack of experience, lack of knowledge, lack of tact, lack of self control, immature, and untrustworthy. I don't like his tone or his approach. He is an egomaniac beyond what we normally see in a POTUS candidate. 

 
Economic liberal and social conservative here...I wont vote for either Hillary or Trump.  Guess I can check out Gary Anderson

thinking about it...not sure if I'm liberal or conservative...guess that makes me a moderate

 
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The Republican party could have EASILY had my vote this run.  That they never even tried is disappointing. :thumbdown:  

 
BowieMercs said:
I absolutely positively refuse to vote for Hillary for reasons I wont get into so as not to hijack the thread.

I think I represent a decent segment of republicans... I'm a fiscal conservative who believes the role of the federal govt is to ensure the rights and safety of its citizens and provide infrastructure &  utilities that can't be done profitably or at a fair price by local governments or the private sector.

As far as social issues go, some of my fellow republicans like to deride me as too liberal. I distrust people until I have a reason to trust them. Race, religion, gender/gender identification, regional differences etc are not relevant in who has rights. 

Liberals like to taunt me because I support ALL the amendments to the Constitution (see 2A threads), not just the ones that are comfortable.

I feel a duty to vote, but I may sit this one out for the first time in my life (I'm a young 56 ;)  ).
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This is me, nearly identical.

The only reason I'll probably vote this year is the SCOTUS pick. It's going to be tough voting Trump, but the SCOTUS pick is important.

 
MaxThreshold said:
I don't see myself voting for Trump.  The ONLY thing that is keeping it ever so slightly open is the Supreme Court nominee.  However, I'm not sure that's enough for me - still weighing it and probably will up until the day of the election.

I would NEVER vote for Hillary based on conscience alone (she represents ALL that is wrong with politics), so at this point I have no candidate.
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I think it has to be. It's extremely important.

 
Mitch Robbins said:
This is me, nearly identical.

The only reason I'll probably vote this year is the SCOTUS pick. It's going to be tough voting Trump, but the SCOTUS pick is important.
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I still think Merrick Garland gets approved AFTER the election as a big FU to Hillary and the electorate for putting Trump in the race. 

 
In presidential elections, I've only voted for Republicans so far.

I'm voting for Johnson.  Can't stand Trump or Hillary.  I've been saying this was my "nightmare scenario" for months now.  I'm dumbfounded about the whole thing at this point and am shocked it has come to fruition.  I seriously can't fathom what anyone voting for these two see in them.  I'd rather have a wet paper bag as President.

 
I'm not voting for Hillary.  I may vote for Trump but we'll see.  I could easily vote for Johnson.  I think there's still a lot of drama to play out in both parties though.  This entire election is a total joke.

 
Supreme Court appointments always seem like a hugely overrated issue to me. Truly landmark cases are very few and far between, and appointments are so unpredictable, I think its misguided to make it a single issue factor in choosing a candidate. I don't want to derail Joe's thread, but it seems several folks feel the most important reason or perhaps only reason they would vote Trump is because of the supreme court.

 
Ilov80s said:
Agree. Like the Brit vote to leave, Trump is mostly a vote to throw your arms up in the air and say "#### it."
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If I could do that & somehow cast my vote for the current Mayor of Rome (OK, the birthers would WIN that fight) it would at least seem less repulsive.

 
CletiusMaximus said:
Supreme Court appointments always seem like a hugely overrated issue to me. Truly landmark cases are very few and far between, and appointments are so unpredictable, I think its misguided to make it a single issue factor in choosing a candidate. I don't want to derail Joe's thread, but it seems several folks feel the most important reason or perhaps only reason they would vote Trump is because of the supreme court.
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It's the same reason people overvalue 'clutch' in sports, or point to failures at the end of games/overtime as more important than similar moments earlier in the game. SC impacts things at the very end of the issue/debate. Lots of fanfare, lots of attention. No one pays attention to the incremental decisions and policies and such that actually move issues around. It's the fallacy that whatever happens last is the crucial thing. 

 
I'm not sure if this thread applies to me, because I stopped being a person "Who Would Normally Vote Republican" when McCain added Sarah Palin to the Presidential ticket.

 
CletiusMaximus said:
Supreme Court appointments always seem like a hugely overrated issue to me. Truly landmark cases are very few and far between, and appointments are so unpredictable, I think its misguided to make it a single issue factor in choosing a candidate. I don't want to derail Joe's thread, but it seems several folks feel the most important reason or perhaps only reason they would vote Trump is because of the supreme court.
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Hi Cletius,

Thanks for thinking of it that way but I don't think the Supreme Court issue is derailing. I hear that too. I have friends who are conservative and are not comfortable with Trump but they'll likely vote for him and use the Supreme Court thing as the reason. Personally, it seems like banking on being able to predict that Trump will do what they want seems kind of tenuous. But that's their logic.

J

 
Those that think they are being good GOPs and simply not voting or writing in someone else like Kasich, you're lying to yourself and everyone here, you also are full of bullspit on everything you have complained about with Obama for the last 8 years and finally you are full of BS because you know when it comes time you are going to walk in that booth and pull Trump's name. And if you doubt me, simply pull up Clinton's speech the same day Trump spoke scathing things about her(22nd?) and listen to the entitlements and freebies she wants to hand out and then add in 1-2 Supreme Court noms and I doubt you will be able to sleep at night. 

The moral high roaders need to get over it and realize this country is leaving you behind. Trump is a brand and Trump is a way to scare the establishment and shake things up a little bit in Washington, Sanders supporters were similar and some will vote for Trump to protest Clinton but I find it difficult to believe proud GOPs who dislike Trump want to elect Hilary Clinton. 

 
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Ministry of Pain said:
Those that think they are being good GOPs and simply not voting or writing in someone else like Kasich, you're lying to yourself and everyone here, you also are full of bullspit on everything you have complained about with Obama for the last 8 years and finally you are full of BS because you know when it comes time you are going to walk in that booth and pull Trump's name. And if you doubt me, simply pull up Clinton's speech the same day Trump spoke scathing things about her(22nd?) and listen to the entitlements and freebies she wants to hand out and then add in 1-2 Supreme Court noms and I doubt you will be able to sleep at night. 

The moral high roaders need to get over it and realize this country is leaving you behind. Trump is a brand and Trump is a way to scare the establishment and shake things up a little bit in Washington, Sanders supporters were similar and some will vote for Trump to protest Clinton but I find it difficult to believe proud GOPs who dislike Trump want to elect Hilary Clinton. 
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Cletus and Joe make a great point about the SC pick.  I really have no idea what type of nominee a Trump Presidency would put forth.  

Trump could just pick Merrick Garland for all I know and all my consternation over the SC pick and voting for Trump anyway would go right out the window.

 
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Ministry of Pain said:
Those that think they are being good GOPs and simply not voting or writing in someone else like Kasich, you're lying to yourself and everyone here, you also are full of bullspit on everything you have complained about with Obama for the last 8 years and finally you are full of BS because you know when it comes time you are going to walk in that booth and pull Trump's name. And if you doubt me, simply pull up Clinton's speech the same day Trump spoke scathing things about her(22nd?) and listen to the entitlements and freebies she wants to hand out and then add in 1-2 Supreme Court noms and I doubt you will be able to sleep at night. 

The moral high roaders need to get over it and realize this country is leaving you behind. Trump is a brand and Trump is a way to scare the establishment and shake things up a little bit in Washington, Sanders supporters were similar and some will vote for Trump to protest Clinton but I find it difficult to believe proud GOPs who dislike Trump want to elect Hilary Clinton. 
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:rolleyes:

Oh, Ok.

 
Ministry of Pain said:
Those that think they are being good GOPs and simply not voting or writing in someone else like Kasich, you're lying to yourself and everyone here, you also are full of bullspit on everything you have complained about with Obama for the last 8 years and finally you are full of BS because you know when it comes time you are going to walk in that booth and pull Trump's name. And if you doubt me, simply pull up Clinton's speech the same day Trump spoke scathing things about her(22nd?) and listen to the entitlements and freebies she wants to hand out and then add in 1-2 Supreme Court noms and I doubt you will be able to sleep at night. 

The moral high roaders need to get over it and realize this country is leaving you behind. Trump is a brand and Trump is a way to scare the establishment and shake things up a little bit in Washington, Sanders supporters were similar and some will vote for Trump to protest Clinton but I find it difficult to believe proud GOPs who dislike Trump want to elect Hilary Clinton. 
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There is no GOP... there is only Zuul! 

 
Joe Bryant said:
Hi Cletius,

Thanks for thinking of it that way but I don't think the Supreme Court issue is derailing. I hear that too. I have friends who are conservative and are not comfortable with Trump but they'll likely vote for him and use the Supreme Court thing as the reason. Personally, it seems like banking on being able to predict that Trump will do what they want seems kind of tenuous. But that's their logic.

J
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The wildcard aspect of Trump's persona only adds another layer of unpredictability into what is already a highly unpredictable aspect of the presidency. It may be more acute in this election, but I think the SCOTUS appointment factor is always highly overrated, even when we have a reliable conservative running against a reliable liberal. John Roberts' decision in the ACA case is only the most recent example of a long history of unpredictable judicial appointments. Further, I think the importance of SCOTUS decisions in our day to day lives is very often overstated.

 
There is this perception that Trump is high risk/reward when in all actuality his ceiling may be well below Clinton's floor. 

 
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What's amusing is that each of the candidates most compelling argument to vote for them is "I'm not my opponent".  I see no reward in any scenario given the current candidates. This would be a good time for a one way trip to Mars. ;)

 
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