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Drug Dog Search: Indiana (1 Viewer)

WainiacS

WainiacS

Footballguy
My 18yr old son and his buddy where traveling back from a 4 day golf binge in Lexington Ky. when they got pulled over north of Indy... His buddy was driving and they were traveling 10-12mph over the speed limit. 2 officers cautiously approached the car and eventually got to the part of the conversation where they asked, do you have any drugs in the car.  They replied they didn't and the officer said you sure are nervous for not having anything to hide.  If you don't have anything to hide you won't mind if our K9 searches the car for drugs.  My son thought it was BS but knew he had nothing to hide so consented to the search.  They went through all luggage, golf bags, opened shampoo, deodorant inspected everything.  He said they stood on the side of the highway for 30 plus minutes. In the end they where clean and got let go with a warning to slow down.

I'm interested in the thoughts of the FFA... Some of my friends say they should have acted like disobedient "am I being charged with a crime" attitude; while others say cops and dogs need to train too.

What say ye?

 
In my opinion they should not have given the cops permission to search. Be respectful to the police but do not allow a search without probable cause.

 
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whoknew said:
In my opinion they should not have given the cops permission to search. Be respectful to the police but do not allow a search without probable cause.
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I don't think asking what the reason for the search was is out of line. Sounds like cops muscling teenagers, and I am 100% behind the cops. If the cops give a reason, back away and let them do their thing and don't try to play lawyer on the fly.

 
WainiacS said:
My 18yr old son and his buddy where traveling back from a 4 day golf binge in Lexington Ky. when they got pulled over north of Indy... His buddy was driving and they were traveling 10-12mph over the speed limit. 2 officers cautiously approached the car and eventually got to the part of the conversation where they asked, do you have any drugs in the car.  They replied they didn't and the officer said you sure are nervous for not having anything to hide.  If you don't have anything to hide you won't mind if our K9 searches the car for drugs.  My son thought it was BS but knew he had nothing to hide so consented to the search.  They went through all luggage, golf bags, opened shampoo, deodorant inspected everything.  He said they stood on the side of the highway for 30 plus minutes. In the end they where clean and got let go with a warning to slow down.

I'm interested in the thoughts of the FFA... Some of my friends say they should have acted like disobedient "am I being charged with a crime" attitude; while others say cops and dogs need to train too.

What say ye?
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bad advice IMO. 

 
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Yeah, that sucks... On one hand, they should not have allowed them to search the car.  Most kids don't know their rights in that situation, but on the other hand, had they said no way... Do they get a warning?  Do the officers make their life on the side of the road a giant pain in the ###? Idk..

 
Total horse spit, just cops bullying teenagers and trying to find trouble. He should have said he would like to speak with his lawyer first and also wants everything documented and filmed with cameras while they are doing it. 

 
mquinnjr said:
I don't think asking what the reason for the search was is out of line. Sounds like cops muscling teenagers, and I am 100% behind the cops. If the cops give a reason, back away and let them do their thing and don't try to play lawyer on the fly.
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I don't think asserting your constitutional rights is trying to play lawyer on the fly. There's nothing wrong with insisting the police have probable cause before a search is conducted. Indeed, the question should be why do the cops want to search without probable cause. 

 
Teenagers get messed with by cops, same as when I was a teen... Better them than me. 

& no, they shouldn't have acted like #####, would've just made their day worse. 

 
I was thinking if he said, No he doesn't consent... He gets a ticket for speeding (12 over)

PS: I'm glad it wasn't me at their age - I'm pretty sure MJ residue would be in that golf bag somewhere.

 
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JoeSteeler said:
bad advice IMO. 
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I guess it depends on how its done. The OP seemed to suggest that the question would be asked in a disrespectful way. That is a bad idea. No reason to be disrespectful or snotty to the cops. 

Just calmly and respectfully assert your rights.

 
lod001 said:
No ####. That's how these thing escalate. (by being **** heads). Young people are so ####### stupid.
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Takes two to tango there. Cops bullying kids into searches simply because they are intimidated by cops is way more the cause of an escalation here than somebody responded by being annoyed. Obviously, the high road is the play, but that certainly doesn't mean calling for a lawyer/warrant wouldn't be justified. These kinds of cops are part of the problem.

ETA: Interesting they didn't give a ticket. Almost like they traded the ticket in for a shot at a bust.

 
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WainiacS said:
I was thinking if he said, No he doesn't consent... He gets a ticket for speeding (12 over)
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Exactly what I was thinking there..  Should they have searched their car?  Probably not.  Is it worth falling on that sword there?  I've always preached to my kids to pick their battles in life wisely.  Can't fight them all.. 

i know how I would handle it.. But I'm in my 40s...  

 
If they refuse the search, he likely gets a speeding ticket.

30 minutes of hassle to avoid a ticket seems reasonable unless you are in a huge hurry.

 
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JoeSteeler said:
agree but what makes it worse it that is was the OP's friends (I assume 35 and over) that were saying this.
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I'm old. :kicksrock:  Of course, if they were 20ish, they would have kept the windows up until the cop smashed thru it while they filmed it as they ignored his requests.

 
Apple Jack said:
Takes two to tango there. Cops bullying kids into searches simply because they are intimidated by cops is way more the cause of an escalation here than somebody responded by being annoyed. Obviously, the high road is the play, but that certainly doesn't mean calling for a lawyer/warrant wouldn't be justified. These kinds of cops are part of the problem.

ETA: Interesting they didn't give a ticket. Almost like they traded the ticket in for a shot at a bust.
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Leaves a written trail with officer names...

 
Apple Jack said:
Takes two to tango there. Cops bullying kids into searches simply because they are intimidated by cops is way more the cause of an escalation here than somebody responded by being annoyed. Obviously, the high road is the play, but that certainly doesn't mean calling for a lawyer/warrant wouldn't be justified. These kinds of cops are part of the problem.

ETA: Interesting they didn't give a ticket. Almost like they traded the ticket in for a shot at a bust.
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I am friends with several local police officers and being the least bit respectful (if it is genuine) goes a long way. 

 
mquinnjr said:
I don't think asking what the reason for the search was is out of line. Sounds like cops muscling teenagers, and I am 100% behind the cops. If the cops give a reason, back away and let them do their thing and don't try to play lawyer on the fly.
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I was taught to answer "can we search your car" with "why?".  They have to have a reason and its worked for me* in the past.  The cop didn't have a reason and he said, "well you can just say no".  Don't surrender your civil rights.

*I'm white, so.....

 
Apple Jack said:
ETA: Interesting they didn't give a ticket. Almost like they traded the ticket in for a shot at a bust.
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I had an incident like the OP's son when I was 18 as well that ended similarly.  Got pulled over around 11 PM with a friend in the car going 7-10 mph over the speed limit and "swerving/not staying in the lane".  The officer pretty much terrified me into letting him search my car....we had nothing and were both stone cold sober.  He let us go without a ticket.

 
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Apple Jack said:
ETA: Interesting they didn't give a ticket. Almost like they traded the ticket in for a shot at a bust.
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It would have been more interesting (and even more of a #### move) had they given the ticket after all that.  In the same situation, and knowing that outcome (and having nothing to hide), go ahead and search my car for 30 minutes if it gets me out of the ticket which will cost me a few hundred, as well as raise my auto insurance (especially for a 18 year old male). 

To the OP - what type of car was is?  Ford Mustang GT with the top down, or old beater?  Doesn't change the story either way, just curious.

 
matttyl said:
It would have been more interesting (and even more of a #### move) had they given the ticket after all that.  In the same situation, and knowing that outcome (and having nothing to hide), go ahead and search my car for 30 minutes if it gets me out of the ticket which will cost me a few hundred, as well as raise my auto insurance (especially for a 18 year old male). 

To the OP - what type of car was is?  Ford Mustang GT with the top down, or old beater?  Doesn't change the story either way, just curious.
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this probably would have happened if the kids were #######s about it

 
If they weren't speeding (and also did have any drugs), I would respectfully decline. Seems like they played it perfectly considering they could have gotten an expensive ticket,

 
Clown Car said:
So they would have the names to make a complaint against an unwarranted search. 
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Oh come on......why don't you all just let the police do their job.  If they would have said no, the police would hen need to make a decision if they wanted to escalate (get a warrant), find what the consideration probable cause, etc.  Ya it is a bit of a pia to wait 20-30 min for the search but it isn't the end of the world and it sounds like they cops were cool about it and let them off of the speeding ticket.

 
sbonomo said:
Oh come on......why don't you all just let the police do their job.  If they would have said no, the police would hen need to make a decision if they wanted to escalate (get a warrant), find what the consideration probable cause, etc.  Ya it is a bit of a pia to wait 20-30 min for the search but it isn't the end of the world and it sounds like they cops were cool about it and let them off of the speeding ticket.
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I don't see how granting an unwarranted search is letting the police do their job. Seems like its more letting the police get away with something that is beyond the scope of their job. Holding them to a constitutional standard is letting the police do their job properly.

 
whoknew said:
I don't see how granting an unwarranted search is letting the police do their job. Seems like its more letting the police get away with something that is beyond the scope of their job. Holding them to a constitutional standard is letting the police do their job properly.
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Um...the police are free to ask for consent for such things.

People are free to decline that consent.

 
whoknew said:
I don't see how granting an unwarranted search is letting the police do their job. Seems like its more letting the police get away with something that is beyond the scope of their job. Holding them to a constitutional standard is letting the police do their job properly.
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You are hearing one side to the story.  They were speading and who knows what else.  I am firmly of the belief if I have not done anything wrong, which it sounds like the op's son had not, then I am happy to comply.  Not that big of a deal imo.

 
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sbonomo said:
You are hearing one side to the story.  They were speaking and who knows what else.  I am firmly of the belief if I have not done anything wrong, which it sounds like the op's sin had not, then I am happy to comply.  Not that big of a deal imo.
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And I think that's a mistake. There are lots of people in prison who thought they did not do anything wrong. People get wrongly convicted all the time. 

 
whoknew said:
And I think that's a mistake. There are lots of people in prison who thought they did not do anything wrong. People get wrongly convicted all the time. 
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I think you are being a bit dramatic here.  Four kids that were speading have a very, very low probability of being wrongfully convicted of something they did not do.   Shock and awe is not real life.  

 
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Jayrod said:
30 minutes of hassle to avoid a ticket seems reasonable unless you are in a huge hurry.
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It seems reasonable?

I would say it sounds wholly unreasonable, but might be the better of two bad alternatives.

What would be more reasonable is law enforcement not subjecting people to illegal searches as a matter of SOP.

 
sbonomo said:
You are hearing one side to the story.  They were speaking and who knows what else.  I am firmly of the belief if I have not done anything wrong, which it sounds like the op's sin had not, then I am happy to comply.  Not that big of a deal imo.
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You're heading down the path of "only guilty people have something to fear" mentality.  Like I said, respectfully asking why should not be a problem to an honest cop.  And it should end there if the honest cop has no reason.

 
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Drug dogs are completely unreliable. They will hit on a car off their handlers body language., Their unreliability has been proven. You may as well flip a coin, about the same odds of getting it right. So we start with that. Then we remember the cop videos of cops planting evidence to justify a stop and make an arrest. When you combine these things your answer should always be no you may not. Your next question should be am I being detained. If they say no then off you go. This isn't being a ####. It's being a free person in a free society.

 
Steve Tasker said:
honest cop lol
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They certainly exist. My father in law was a Metro Dade cop for 24 years. He was a pretty stand up guy. Kind of cop that poured the pot out on the side of the road if he found any. Not really looking to hassle people and believes in serve and protect. The stuff he sees happening today does not make him happy. And there are lots more like him. But there are certainly some that isn't the case for.

 
NCCommish said:
Drug dogs are completely unreliable. They will hit on a car off their handlers body language., Their unreliability has been proven. You may as well flip a coin, about the same odds of getting it right. So we start with that. Then we remember the cop videos of cops planting evidence to justify a stop and make an arrest. When you combine these things your answer should always be no you may not. Your next question should be am I being detained. If they say no then off you go. This isn't being a ####. It's being a free person in a free society.
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:goodposting:

1.  Yep, drug dogs are like 4-legged polygraphs.   Not sure why they're still legal.

2.  If a cop asks if they can search it means they have no probable cause.   I can't think of any reason why I would ever let a cop search my car.  If they had reasonable suspicion then they can get a warrant.  

When my boys started driving I taught them to be as polite and cooperative as possible if they ever got pulled over.   I taught them to respect the police.   But I also told them to never say "yes" when a cop asks to search their car.  

 
Sconch said:
:goodposting:

1.  Yep, drug dogs are like 4-legged polygraphs.   Not sure why they're still legal.

2.  If a cop asks if they can search it means they have no probable cause.   I can't think of any reason why I would ever let a cop search my car.  If they had reasonable suspicion then they can get a warrant.  

When my boys started driving I taught them to be as polite and cooperative as possible if they ever got pulled over.   I taught them to respect the police.   But I also told them to never say "yes" when a cop asks to search their car.  
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And if you are ever arrested, or physically detained, the only thing you should tell the cops is "I want to talk to a lawyer."

 
Sconch said:
:goodposting:

1.  Yep, drug dogs are like 4-legged polygraphs.   Not sure why they're still legal.

2.  If a cop asks if they can search it means they have no probable cause.   I can't think of any reason why I would ever let a cop search my car.  If they had reasonable suspicion then they can get a warrant.  

When my boys started driving I taught them to be as polite and cooperative as possible if they ever got pulled over.   I taught them to respect the police.   But I also told them to never say "yes" when a cop asks to search their car.  
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I don't understand it. Study after study has shown they are unreliable. And yet they are treated like they are infallible. It's just stunning to me. I guess there would be a lot of repercussions from admitting to that but still time for the courts to catch up to the reality here.

 
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