Chargers are wrong. History doesn't lie.You may have to be twelve, but they explain it pretty straightforwardly here:
http://www.businessinsider.com/joey-bosa-holdout-from-chargers-continues-2016-8
Really, no one is wrong, it's just business.
And all top 3 picks in the last five years if i remember right.My understanding is Bosa is asking for something 19 out of 24 top 5 picks have received - 16/20 going into this year, 3/4 & TBD in 2016 - since the slotting system began.
To my simple mind the team is 80% at fault. Given their history, bump it to 90%.
This quote from the article sums it up nicely:gonna post this anyways ^^^^^^^^^
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/08/the-joey-bosa-chargers-contract-dispute-explained
So really, the Chargers are just being cheap?
Yes. Most NFL teams are willing to give their top picks one or the other, if not both. Bosa isn’t asking for anything crazy here.
Could not disagree more, unless the team doesn't care about winning games. If they do care about winning games, then the team is 100% wrong to take this approach.Chargers aren't doing anything wrong. Bosa isn't doing anything wrong. They're both just trying to use leverage to get a better deal.
The media and most people posting here will just create as much drama as possible, but no one is at fault here...it's just business.
Like I said...drama. lol. The chargers have a very good reason for not wanting to pay more $ to a guy they may cut in 3 seasons.Could not disagree more, unless the team doesn't care about winning games. If they do care about winning games, then the team is 100% wrong to take this approach.
WE live here and live it everyday. The Chargers almost...ALMOST piss me off more than the Padres. EVERYTHING on the cheap. Except tix prices and parking and beer and hot dogs and new stadiums..the list is endless.Chargers aren't doing anything wrong. Bosa isn't doing anything wrong. They're both just trying to use leverage to get a better deal.
The media and most people posting here will just create as much drama as possible, but no one is at fault here...it's just business.
If I were an intelligent first round draft pick, I certainly wouldn't want my employer telling me how to spend my $. If I blow it all, that's on me 100%. Would you like your employer to pay you 40% of your salary in year 1 and not allowing you to see the other 60% until subsequent year?The bonus is strange because it's all 17 million either right now or half now and half next year. You never know the financial state of a team/owner and this is even more foggy because of the potential move from SD. ***From a "big brother" view I would prefer is the league made it mandatory that any rookie guaranteed bonuses are more spread out or have to be placed in an investment account that they only have access to with drawn from at certain times or intervals. This way the players still have all their money but they don't go broke as quick. Say Year 1 = 40%, year 2 = 20%, year 3 = 20%, year 4 = 20%. It makes me sad hearing about these guys going broke. This probably won't help because guys will take out loans but at least it would get them into the world of professional investing. And maybe an execute not to give out so many family loans.***
The offset thing requires more history. Has SD done this before? How often do rookies receive the offset language that Bosa is asking for? Because if Bosa is asking for something that the Chargers or league rarely do then it becomes about more than just Bosa.
@Hankmoody Is usually really on point this kind of stuff.
This is almost impossible to answer. lol. Good job. Most of us have "hit the field" in our job and will have deserved a bonus or not.If I were an intelligent first round draft pick, I certainly wouldn't want my employer telling me how to spend my $. If I blow it all, that's on me 100%. Would you like your employer to pay you 40% of your salary in year 1 and not allowing you to see the other 60% until subsequent year?
You know all players have this option personally right now, right? They choose not to do it.
Yep. Or they can trade him at the start of the 2017 league year.If Bosa doesn't sign all year does he go back into the player pool for next year's draft?
I don't think so. I'm not sure, but I believe the Chargers lose the rights to him at the start of the 2017 league year, which is why he'd go back into the draft.Yep. Or they can trade him at the start of the 2017 league year.
Do they get a supplemental pick if he does?I don't think so. I'm not sure, but I believe the Chargers lose the rights to him at the start of the 2017 league year, which is why he'd go back into the draft.
From what ive read they lose his rights when the draft starts. That info could be wrong though.I don't think so. I'm not sure, but I believe the Chargers lose the rights to him at the start of the 2017 league year, which is why he'd go back into the draft.
Jesus! Yes! ^^^^This! We are f'n tired of Charger BS. At one point we were considering backing a RAIDERS move here..lol. What does that say???Both sides are being a bit silly, but if one side is morally in the wrong, it's the Chargers.
The offset language and the timing of the bonus payout are fairly trivial in the grand scheme of things. Neither issue, from the perspective of either side, is worth the holdout. The holdout hurts both the player and the team, and it hurts each more than losing on those bargaining points hurts. So each side should cave rather than go through a holdout.
Bosa is additionally being silly because he has no leverage. There is zero chance that he'll start missing game checks over these issues. A single game check is worth more than the acceleration of the bonus plus the expected value of foregoing the offset. So Bosa will sign before Week 1 even if the Chargers don't budge on their position. Given that he'll sign before Week 1 for the same terms he's being offered now, he may as well sign now.
The Chargers are not only being silly, but they are also being unjustifiably cheap. Even if they gave Bosa the full bonus now and caved on the offset language, Bosa's contract will still be very cheap compared to veterans expected to perform similarly. They are already exploiting Bosa's disadvantaged status under the CBA -- there's no good reason to twist the knife. Caving on at least one of the disputed provisions would not only end the holdout, but it would also just be the decent thing to do for a valued employee who is already getting the short end of the stick.
And thats all Bosa wants. One of the issues at hand. Seems kind of obtuse for the Chargers to expect him to cave on both.Both sides are being a bit silly, but if one side is morally in the wrong, it's the Chargers.
The offset language and the timing of the bonus payout are fairly trivial in the grand scheme of things. Neither issue, from the perspective of either side, is worth the holdout. The holdout hurts both the player and the team, and it hurts each more than losing on those bargaining points hurts. So each side should cave rather than endure a holdout.
Bosa is additionally being silly because he has no leverage. There is zero chance that he'll start missing game checks over these issues. A single game check is worth more than the acceleration of the bonus plus the expected value of foregoing the offset. So Bosa will sign before Week 1 even if the Chargers don't budge on their position. Given that he'll sign before Week 1 for the same terms he's being offered now, he may as well sign now.
The Chargers are not only being silly, but they are also being unjustifiably cheap. Even if they gave Bosa the full bonus now and caved on the offset language, Bosa's contract will still be very cheap compared to veterans expected to perform similarly. They are already exploiting Bosa's disadvantaged status under the CBA -- there's no good reason to twist the knife. Caving on at least one of the disputed provisions would not only end the holdout, but it would also just be the decent thing to do for a valued employee who is already getting the short end of the stick.
MT is correct. SD only retains him until the end of 2016. And they cannot sign him after week 10. The deadline to trade him has already passed, that has to be done 30 days prior to the start of the season at the latest.From what ive read they lose his rights when the draft starts. That info could be wrong though.I don't think so. I'm not sure, but I believe the Chargers lose the rights to him at the start of the 2017 league year, which is why he'd go back into the draft.
Heres the article i was referencing, saying they retain him until the draft starts. Sounds like it wrong?MT is correct. SD only retains him until the end of 2016. And they cannot sign him after week 10. The deadline to trade him has already passed, that has to be done 30 days prior to the start of the season at the latest.
We're all wrong.Heres the article i was referencing, saying they retain him until the draft starts. Sounds like it wrong?
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/08/09/window-closes-on-potential-trade-of-joey-bosa-in-2016/
Chargers generally require some amount of offset money. Many teams negotiate it into rookie deals and the occasional veteran deal (that's rare though). Wents and Goff (picked immediately before/after Bosa) both have offset language and both deferred some of their signing bonus - they'll both get it at the end of this season IIRC. This isn't exactly uncharted territory. For every person saying the Chargers are being cheap there could be another saying Bosa is being greedy. Neither is right, it's just business negotiations.The bonus is strange because it's all 17 million either right now or half now and half next year. You never know the financial state of a team/owner and this is even more foggy because of the potential move from SD. ***From a "big brother" view I would prefer is the league made it mandatory that any rookie guaranteed bonuses are more spread out or have to be placed in an investment account that they only have access to with drawn from at certain times or intervals. This way the players still have all their money but they don't go broke as quick. Say Year 1 = 40%, year 2 = 20%, year 3 = 20%, year 4 = 20%. It makes me sad hearing about these guys going broke. This probably won't help because guys will take out loans but at least it would get them into the world of professional investing. And maybe an execute not to give out so many family loans.***
The offset thing requires more history. Has SD done this before? How often do rookies receive the offset language that Bosa is asking for? Because if Bosa is asking for something that the Chargers or league rarely do then it becomes about more than just Bosa.
@Hankmoody Is usually really on point this kind of stuff.
But there is a difference.For every person saying the Chargers are being cheap there could be another saying Bosa is being greedy. Neither is right, it's just business negotiations.
Both of them said kind of the same thing, that Bosa has to take control of the situation and not just let other people take care of it.What's up with LT and Gates calling him out? That's an unspoken rule every veteran knows not to break.
as far as the team operating in a way counter to winning, These are same fools that put Gates on a roster exempt list forcing him to miss the 2005 season opener.
That's why I said "business negotiation" and not "football operations negotiation". This obviously isn't about football.But there is a difference.
In theory, every NFL franchise should always be operating in a manner that will maximize their chances of winning as many games as possible. With the stadium issue, that might be even more important to the Chargers this year than usual. Meanwhile, McCoy's job is on the line, which means most or all of the jobs of the coaching staff are on the line. For most NFL franchises, Telesco's job would be on the line, too, not sure if that holds with the Chargers (Spanos).
True, but IMO football consideration should be more important to the franchise in this situation than it seems to be.That's why I said "business negotiation" and not "football operations negotiation". This obviously isn't about football.
I think he still goes in the top half of the 1st but could be wrong. Hes not asking for anything crazy and im sure the other teams know that. San Diego also has as much to lose as he does imo. They would essentially be forfeiting the #3 overall pick in the draft for no compensation.SD is clearly in the wrong here but at this point doesn't Bosa have to bite the bullet? He probably doesn't even go in the first round next year. Play out this contract and sign somewhere else in 5 years.
While I mostly blame the Chargers for this mess, Bosa has much more to lose.I think he still goes in the top half of the 1st but could be wrong. Hes not asking for anything crazy and im sure the other teams know that. San Diego also has as much to lose as he does imo. They would essentially be forfeiting the #3 overall pick in the draft for no compensation.
Its the team.I'm not sure which side looks more silly,
Losing the #3 overall pick is a horrendous turn of events for a team. Think Len Bias (#2). Then think Reggie White(#4).Bosa has much more to lose.
Disagree, i think the losses are pretty even. Next year the #5 pick will earn roughly what the #3 pick received this year. Add in the high California tax rate and it probably stretches in out to the 7th or 8th pick being pretty similar to this years 3rd. He does miss a year of earnings and a year towards the lucrative 2nd contract.While I mostly blame the Chargers for this mess, Bosa has much more to lose.
If he sits out and re-enters the draft next year, he stands to lose millions. As this year's #3 pick, he would be guaranteed $26.56M if he signs. The #8 pick was guaranteed $16.38M. So just slipping 5 picks would cost more than $10M. Not to mention that he wouldn't earn anything for 2016, losing a year of earnings and a year accrued towards his second contract.
It would be incredibly stupid for him to sit out the season. For that reason, I expect him to sign sooner or later, which means he should sign before the season, so he doesn't lose any game checks. Which means not signing when the Chargers made their most recent offer was stupid.