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[DYNASTY] Lamar Jackson, Ravens. As a WR, makes a decent QB

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2 hours ago, Dr. Dan said:

no, but they should reevaluate the position, if indeed it's due to his mental and/or physical ineptitudes. the point is to win super bowls

Yep...let’s re-evaluate Lamar Jackson who in is second year won the league MVP.....but since he and his entire team had a terrible game.....we need to re-evaluate.

This is insane hyperbole man. Seriously. It’s a joke. Right?

They were off for two weeks....let’s not count week 17 as a lot of backups played. And it showed last night. But despite being what looked like a rusty team to me they were in this game for almost 3 quarters but had a really bad night. 

It happens. And it happens to great players and teams. 

But.....we need to re-evaluate Lamar Jackson pronto coming off one of the greatest seasons for a QB ever. 

Good luck with that. 

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2 hours ago, Dr. Dan said:

For 1 game they completely took him off his pedestal. You can bet teams *try* to replicate it in 2020. I'm not saying Jackson is hot garbage, just that he needs to take another step and needs to have an answer to what the Titans did. If he doesn't he will be a great fantasy qb with a short shelf life

Disagree. The Ravens were outcoached.....badly. Also they looked sluggish and rusty. Also....coaching. Incredible over reaction. 

They ran into what is right now the hottest team in the playoffs. It happens. 

Your takes are kinda laughable right now. They really are.

Edited by Todem
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2 hours ago, matuski said:

The only part about Jackson's game last night that worries me is his composure... I thought he reacted poorly from the first interception on, did not carry himself well imo.

The body language and temper tantrums were not a good look.

This I can see. I agree as well. And this is part of growing and learning. Hopefully he matures more for the Ravens sake. He has what it takes. This is part of winning and losing. I see him getting more weapons around him in the passing game. Which in turn should reduce the need for him to run as much.  The future is bright for the Ravens. This was a tough break for them. They had it all in front of them and blew it. It happens. It is sports. 

But....we should re-evaluate the MVP.....right now. LOL!!!!!!!

Edited by Todem
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Jackson and the Ravens are young and hadn't faced playoff intensity in the new system. They may have looked past the Titans a bit and then got stressed and anxious to do everything at once to come back. And huge credit to Tenn for the intensity, single-mindedness and sheer force they brought to the game. I think Lamar had a game like much of the team - slightly off target and played from stress. I don't think that means he is anything less than the league MVP. He has a great future. He had a lackluster game against a fierce defense and didn't rise up to lead his team to victory, despite good stats. I don't think it means any more or less than that. Everyone falls short somewhere except the team that wins it all. 

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15 minutes ago, Todem said:

Yep...let’s re-evaluate Lamar Jackson who in is second year won the league MVP.....but since he and his entire team had a terrible game.....we need to re-evaluate.

This is insane hyperbole man. Seriously. It’s a joke. Right?

They were off for two weeks....let’s not count week 17 as a lot of backups played. And it showed last night. But despite being what looked like a rusty team to me they were in this game for almost 3 quarters but had a really bad night. 

It happens. And it happens to great players and teams. 

But.....we need to re-evaluate Lamar Jackson pronto coming off one of the greatest seasons for a QB ever. 

Good luck with that. 

that's not what I said. at all. try reading again. and leave the slap shots out

Edited by Dr. Dan

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6 minutes ago, Todem said:

This I can see. I agree as well. And this is part of growing and learning. Hopefully he matures more for the Ravens sake. He has what it takes. This is part of winning and losing. I see him getting more weapons around him in the passing game. Which in turn should reduce the need for him to run as much.  The future is bright for the Ravens. This was a tough break for them. They had it all in front of them and blew it. It happens. It is sports. 

But....we should re-evaluate the MVP.....right now. LOL!!!!!!!

Jackson got shook last night and didn't handle it well. Neither did guys who have rings and are probably going to the HOF like Yanda & Thomas.

He's 23. If that had have been Rivers - who hasn't won anything, ever, besides fathering children - the narrative would be about how much of a competitor he is and how he hates to lose.

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5 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

You think no one is saying Lamar sucks?  Might wanna look round the Internet.  Ridiculous overreactions everywhere.  

Over half the teams didn't make the playoffs and don't have a 23 year old QB.  

League MVP, twice to the playoffs but it doesn't matter because we can't do anything other than ponder the loss. 

That's OK.  I'd take my chances with the kid and that coaching staff/FO/offense next year if I had that option.

I'd hedge my bets here. Historically running QBs in novelty offenses are like bubble stocks, they peak early and look unstoppable but typically fade over time. Statistically speaking, it's usually a sell high. In the case of the ravens, the Titans ran EXACTLY the same defense teams used to stop Roman/Kaepernick and it worked so it's not like this is anything new.

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28 minutes ago, Uruk-Hai said:

Good Lord, people.

Baltimore isn't drafting a RB in the 1st round. They're fine with Ingram, Edwards, and Hill. They may pick one late to use as a ST guy.

They need help at interior OL, ILB, Edge. They could also upgrade at possession WR, though I'd like to see how they adjust the offense before putting a name to that.

:lol:

Seriously. They just ran for more yards than any team in NFL history and they're going to waste their 1st rounder on another RB?

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4 minutes ago, humpback said:

:lol:

Seriously. They just ran for more yards than any team in NFL history and they're going to waste their 1st rounder on another RB?

:shrug:

I've seen some mocks quoting league sources. Not pulling stuff out of thin air. Edward's is JAG, Hill is a COP back. Ingram is a possible cap casualty after 2020.2021 is not an overly impressive year at rb. ideally they should wait a year or two but the 2020 class is deep

Edited by Dr. Dan

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9 minutes ago, Uruk-Hai said:

probably going to the HOF like Yanda

Uh, no. Yanda isn't close to a HOFer.

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8 minutes ago, humpback said:

:lol:

Seriously. They just ran for more yards than any team in NFL history and they're going to waste their 1st rounder on another RB?

Titans dominated both lines yesterday. OL or DL #1 imo.

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31 minutes ago, Todem said:

Yep...let’s re-evaluate Lamar Jackson who in is second year won the league MVP.....but since he and his entire team had a terrible game.....we need to re-evaluate.

This is insane hyperbole man. Seriously. It’s a joke. Right?

They were off for two weeks....let’s not count week 17 as a lot of backups played. And it showed last night. But despite being what looked like a rusty team to me they were in this game for almost 3 quarters but had a really bad night. 

It happens. And it happens to great players and teams. 

But.....we need to re-evaluate Lamar Jackson pronto coming off one of the greatest seasons for a QB ever. 

Good luck with that. 

“Peyton Manning didn’t win a playoff game until SIXTH year in NFL. Then he threw 3 INTs. No announcer said NFL “figured him out” or condemned his style.”  

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I have really enjoyed this thread all year. Thnx all.

After last night, reactions like we have here today were expected by me.

All I have to say - right now: Thanks for an absolutely wonderful season LJ. You made my year much better. 

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7 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

:shrug:

I've seen some mocks quoting league sources. Not pulling stuff out of thin air. Edward's is JAG, Hill is a COP back. Ingram is a possible cap casualty after 2020.2021 is not an overly impressive year at rb. ideally they should wait a year or two but the 2020 class is deep

I highly doubt "league sources" have any real info. on their draft plans when all of the focus has been on winning right now. Edwards had a 5.3 ypc, he's better than JAG, and no way are they cutting Ingram this year. He's only going to count a little over $5 mil against the cap and they'd only save ~$2 mil by cutting him. Unless he banged Harbaugh's wife, they aren't cutting a pro bowler who ran for 5 ypc and scored 15 TDs for that meager savings.

They won't be drafting a RB in the first round, makes zero sense.

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On 7/31/2019 at 8:11 AM, Bracie Smathers said:

I am more intrigued with the Raven offense than ANY OTHER NFL story this year.

They looked unstoppable last year and the knee-jerk reaction was that once the league got tape on this offense it would be neutralized but a funny thing happened this off season.

The Ravens pushed every single chip into the middle of the table, they pulled the rip cord, they crossed the bridge and burned it down to the ground.  

Their ain't no looking back.  

I'm not sold on Lamar as a passer but I am 100% bought in on Harb's going all-in on this offense and that Jackson will thrive as a runner/fantasy stud till someone can stop em and I'm not soo sure that the entire Baltimore organization would wager everything if they weren't completely sold on this offense working.

---------------------------------------------

The Athletic NFL‏Verified account @TheAthleticNFL Jul 24

John Harbaugh and the Ravens are trying to create something the league has never seen before with Lamar Jackson under center.

--------------------------------------------

Must hear from PFF. >>>>>>

-------------------------------------------

Video clip -  PFF round table discussion of unique Raven offense

PFF‏Verified account @PFF

‘This offense is going to look different than any other offense in NFL history’ - @PFF_Mike breaks down the Ravens' offense.

This is from July 31st of this year.  

I saw that the Ravens were doing something unique.  Something the league had never seen before.

Quote

chinawildman -- I'd hedge my bets here. Historically running QBs in novelty offenses are like bubble stocks, they peak early and look unstoppable but typically fade over time. Statistically speaking, it's usually a sell high. In the case of the ravens, the Titans ran EXACTLY the same defense teams used to stop Roman/Kaepernick and it worked so it's not like this is anything new.

What the Ravens are doing is unique.  They pushed in all of the chips and built around this offense and it produced historic stats List of records Lamar Jackson set/tide this year and the best record in  the league.  They made the playoffs and got a bye and ran into a historic performing RB and lost.  

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1 hour ago, Uruk-Hai said:

Good Lord, people.

Baltimore isn't drafting a RB in the 1st round. They're fine with Ingram, Edwards, and Hill. They may pick one late to use as a ST guy.

They need help at interior OL, ILB, Edge. They could also upgrade at possession WR, though I'd like to see how they adjust the offense before putting a name to that.

Looks like they have lots FAs on defense so it’s likely the direction they go. Obviously for  fantasy, I’m hoping it’s on the offensive side.

Edited by Ilov80s
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1 minute ago, Ilov80s said:

... Obviously got fantasy, I’m hoping it’s on the offensive side.

Most my fantasys are offensive too!:hifive:

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5 hours ago, Dr. Dan said:

Why does one have to be labled a "hater" just because they don't think he played well? If you are watching box scores, yeah he was amazing. If you dissect them further and if you actually watched the game, that wasnt the MVP out there 

 

in the end, this should fall on Harbaugh. He didnt adjust to what the Titans were doing at all

Because when you have a different opinion than someone some most people are too dumb, too lazy or both to understand. It’s frustrating. “Hater” and “triggered” are two of the worst words ever used.

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It would be foolish to discount the future of a QB who won MVP in his second season and first full season starting who just turned 23 a few days ago. But that is more from an NFL perspective than a fantasy perspective.

I think it is highly unlikely he will come close to the rushing yardage he posted this year in any future season, mainly driven by my belief that if he continues running 12+ times per game in future seasons, it is inevitable he will sustain injuries and miss games... and I expect his coaches to scale back the volume on that in favor of a combination of (a) more passing (he averaged fewer than 27 pass attempts per game this season) as he gets better at it and likely gets WR help, and (b) letting the RBs carry the majority of the running game (Jackson had ~30% of the team's rushing attempts this season).

I also think it is unlikely he will ever hit a 9.0 TD percentage or 36 passing TDs again. Somewhat surprisingly, there are only 35 instances in NFL history in which a QB passed for 36+ TDs.

Going forward, IMO it is likely that Jackson's pass attempts and pass yardage go up, pass TDs come down, interceptions go up, and rushing attempts and yards come down. As a fantasy QB, it is pretty likely that he just had his career season. If you can get someone in your dynasty league to pay a super high price, it might not be a bad idea to sell. Note, I'm not saying he won't be a top 10 QB, just saying I doubt he will be consistently top 5, much less #1 by a huge margin like he was this year.

I don't say that to "hate" on Jackson, just being realistic.

Edited by Just Win Baby
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2 hours ago, Todem said:

Disagree. The Ravens were outcoached.....badly. Also they looked sluggish and rusty. Also....coaching. Incredible over reaction. 

They ran into what is right now the hottest team in the playoffs. It happens. 

Your takes are kinda laughable right now. They really are.

Please don't call other posters takes here laughable. I know that's tame but we're trying to have a board where we're excellent to each other. 

Disagree and state why and then discuss. It's a much better way to get good discussion I think. Thanks. 

 

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20 minutes ago, Just Win Baby said:

It would be foolish to discount the future of a QB who won MVP in his second season and first full season starting who just turned 23 a few days ago. But that is more from an NFL perspective than a fantasy perspective.

I think it is highly unlikely he will come close to the rushing yardage he posted this year in any future season, mainly driven by my belief that if he continues running 12+ times per game in future seasons, it is inevitable he will sustain injuries and miss games... and I expect his coaches to scale back the volume on that in favor of a combination of (a) more passing (he averaged fewer than 27 pass attempts per game this season) as he gets better at it and likely gets WR help, and (b) letting the RBs carry the majority of the running game (Jackson had ~30% of the team's rushing attempts this season).

I also think it is unlikely he will ever hit a 9.0 TD percentage or 36 passing TDs again. Somewhat surprisingly, there are only 35 instances in NFL history in which a QB passed for 36+ TDs.

Going forward, IMO it is likely that Jackson's pass attempts and pass yardage go up, pass TDs come down, interceptions go up, and rushing attempts and yards come down. As a fantasy QB, it is pretty likely that he just had his career season. If you can get someone in your dynasty league to pay a super high price, it might not be a bad idea to sell. Note, I'm not saying he won't be a top 10 QB, just saying I doubt he will be consistently top 5, much less #1 by a huge margin like he was this year.

I don't say that to "hate" on Jackson, just being realistic.

I agree. I think they should just be more purposeful with his legs. He doesn't need to be the first and second down rusher. Maybe they use them for a key first, definitely for a TD, but let the backs do the hard work

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You don't have to be a hater to disagree, but when you hear comments about "novelty offense" after a QB in his 2nd year loses in the playoffs, yeah I get the responses. You have people coming out of the woodworks acting like Lamar is a glorified WR again and saying he shouldn't be the MVP in other threads, it's amazing. This loss doesn't diminish what he accomplished in the regular season, nor should it be a roadblock for him. He just needs to do work in the offseason like he did last year and who knows, maybe they make the Superbowl next year.

Edited by The Frankman
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2 hours ago, humpback said:

 no way are they cutting Ingram this year. He's only going to count a little over $5 mil against the cap and they'd only save ~$2 mil by cutting him.

I never said that 

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The league will adapt and he will regress. See Mahomes. 

Doesn’t mean he won’t still be great and the Ravens will keep contending. But there are a few great young QBs in the AFC with similar potential. 

The Ravens wasted this opportunity. 

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5 hours ago, Ilov80s said:

I do like Mahomes. Watson is fun to watch as he's so unpredictable- makes some awful plays and then bails out. However, there offense is pretty lame without Fuller. It is tough to watch Nuk do nothing but run 5 yard outs while Watson runs around in circles in the backfield.  I love Wilson but the Seahawks play like they think he's a weakness. Their ideal gameplan is to run the ball 40 times with Lynch and Homer to win 13-7. I feel great about Tannehill's resurgence but they don't tend to play the most exciting brand of football. San Fran is fine. It is creative how some times they give it to Mostert and sometimes they give it to Tevin Coleman. Kittle and Bosa are worth tuning in for though. 

well hello Mr. Sunshine

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2 hours ago, chinawildman said:

I'd hedge my bets here. Historically running QBs in novelty offenses are like bubble stocks, they peak early and look unstoppable but typically fade over time. Statistically speaking, it's usually a sell high. In the case of the ravens, the Titans ran EXACTLY the same defense teams used to stop Roman/Kaepernick and it worked so it's not like this is anything new.

There is a defensive formula to containing this offense, but it takes the right personnel to do it. Most teams don’t have that personnel or discipline. I don’t think it’s as easy as, “just do XYZ and it makes the stops this offense”. Heck, Jackson had 500+ yards of offense last night. They moved the ball just fine.

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2 hours ago, Just Win Baby said:

Uh, no. Yanda isn't close to a HOFer.

If he isn’t a HOFer it’s only because the people who write about the NFL and vote on the HOF simply don’t care about guards. Yanda was dominant for a long time.

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Maybe he’s great, maybe he’s overrated, maybe he just had a bad game, maybe he’ll never be great. I’m not a good enough QB evaluator to judge.

But when I hear stuff like “mental ineptitude” that sounds like racism to me. 

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3 minutes ago, GroveDiesel said:

There is a defensive formula to containing this offense, but it takes the right personnel to do it. Most teams don’t have that personnel or discipline. I don’t think it’s as easy as, “just do XYZ and it makes the stops this offense”. Heck, Jackson had 500+ yards of offense last night. They moved the ball just fine.

Yea but the defensive formula is a bend but don't break philosophy so the team will get their yds. And I think discipline is much more important than personnel when trying to contain the RPO. 

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9 minutes ago, Long Ball Larry said:

well hello Mr. Sunshine

NFL isn’t that great of a product right now imo. Without fantasy, I doubt I would watch many games. All the penalties and replays and commercials are ridiculous.

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29 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

I never said that 

That's nice. They aren't drafting a RB in round 1, it makes zero sense, but I won't waste any more time trying to convince you otherwise (especially in this thread).

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8 minutes ago, chinawildman said:

Yea but the defensive formula is a bend but don't break philosophy so the team will get their yds. And I think discipline is much more important than personnel when trying to contain the RPO. 

You need to have big strong DTs that can stuff runs and really athletic linebackers. If your linebackers don’t have speed, good luck keeping edge contain on Lamar. And if your DTs can’t stuff the run inside, good luck keeping Ingram from running wild inside. Oh, and you’d better have a free safety than can shut down the deep ball.

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1 hour ago, Just Win Baby said:

It would be foolish to discount the future of a QB who won MVP in his second season and first full season starting who just turned 23 a few days ago. But that is more from an NFL perspective than a fantasy perspective.

I think it is highly unlikely he will come close to the rushing yardage he posted this year in any future season, mainly driven by my belief that if he continues running 12+ times per game in future seasons, it is inevitable he will sustain injuries and miss games... and I expect his coaches to scale back the volume on that in favor of a combination of (a) more passing (he averaged fewer than 27 pass attempts per game this season) as he gets better at it and likely gets WR help, and (b) letting the RBs carry the majority of the running game (Jackson had ~30% of the team's rushing attempts this season).

I also think it is unlikely he will ever hit a 9.0 TD percentage or 36 passing TDs again. Somewhat surprisingly, there are only 35 instances in NFL history in which a QB passed for 36+ TDs.

Going forward, IMO it is likely that Jackson's pass attempts and pass yardage go up, pass TDs come down, interceptions go up, and rushing attempts and yards come down. As a fantasy QB, it is pretty likely that he just had his career season. If you can get someone in your dynasty league to pay a super high price, it might not be a bad idea to sell. Note, I'm not saying he won't be a top 10 QB, just saying I doubt he will be consistently top 5, much less #1 by a huge margin like he was this year.

I don't say that to "hate" on Jackson, just being realistic.

Yes, there have only been 34 seasons with 36+ passing TDs, but 20 of them have been in the past decade, so we've averaged 2 per year since 2010. And most of the people on the list have been on it more than once (Brees, Brady, Manning, Rodgers, Luck).

The league has changed. Unless we have a new change in rules or philosophies, we can expect that the top QBs are going to be throwing for 35+ TDs repeatedly in their careers. And there are 61 instances of 30+ TD since 2010, so over 6 QBs per year get to at least that level.

I'd bet on Jackson being among the six best passing QBs going forward, and the #1 rushing QB.

Edited by CalBear
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1 hour ago, Just Win Baby said:

It would be foolish to discount the future of a QB who won MVP in his second season and first full season starting who just turned 23 a few days ago. But that is more from an NFL perspective than a fantasy perspective.

I think it is highly unlikely he will come close to the rushing yardage he posted this year in any future season, mainly driven by my belief that if he continues running 12+ times per game in future seasons, it is inevitable he will sustain injuries and miss games... and I expect his coaches to scale back the volume on that in favor of a combination of (a) more passing (he averaged fewer than 27 pass attempts per game this season) as he gets better at it and likely gets WR help, and (b) letting the RBs carry the majority of the running game (Jackson had ~30% of the team's rushing attempts this season).

I also think it is unlikely he will ever hit a 9.0 TD percentage or 36 passing TDs again. Somewhat surprisingly, there are only 35 instances in NFL history in which a QB passed for 36+ TDs.

Going forward, IMO it is likely that Jackson's pass attempts and pass yardage go up, pass TDs come down, interceptions go up, and rushing attempts and yards come down. As a fantasy QB, it is pretty likely that he just had his career season. If you can get someone in your dynasty league to pay a super high price, it might not be a bad idea to sell. Note, I'm not saying he won't be a top 10 QB, just saying I doubt he will be consistently top 5, much less #1 by a huge margin like he was this year.

I don't say that to "hate" on Jackson, just being realistic.

again said much better than I did or could have 

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1 hour ago, The Duff Man said:

The league will adapt and he will regress. See Mahomes. 

Doesn’t mean he won’t still be great and the Ravens will keep contending. But there are a few great young QBs in the AFC with similar potential. 

The Ravens wasted this opportunity. 

Malhomes didn't regress though.  He was hurt.  In games he was completely healthy his numbers were all better than last season.

 

Here's things we know :

Lamar Jackson lead the league in td passes this year

Lamar Jackson ran for more yards this year than any qbs ever have

Lamar Jackson had a bad game

 

Let's all take a moment to simmer down.

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2 hours ago, Joe Bryant said:

Please don't call other posters takes here laughable. I know that's tame but we're trying to have a board where we're excellent to each other. 

Disagree and state why and then discuss. It's a much better way to get good discussion I think. Thanks. 

 

No problem Joe.

I just found it incredibly reactive and short sighted. But you are right.

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A guy who just won the MVP at age 22, led the NFL in TD passes and set the all time QB rushing record lost a game for the first time since September 

He is obviously never going to amount to anything and is a loser  

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yeah I love the fact that the running qb needs to work on his passing. Sure probably he needs to keep improving, but he did league the nfl in td passes.

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9 minutes ago, IHEARTFF said:

yeah I love the fact that the running qb needs to work on his passing. Sure probably he needs to keep improving, but he did league the nfl in td passes.

But other than his passing and his running he's no good.

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4 minutes ago, Leroy Hoard said:

But other than his passing and his running he's no good.

he didnt even tackle henry once last night, i mean come on.

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1 hour ago, IHEARTFF said:

yeah I love the fact that the running qb needs to work on his passing. Sure probably he needs to keep improving, but he did league the nfl in td passes.

Not to mention he hit one of his receivers in the chest on what would have been a TD if the dude had bothered to look for the ball.

The pass to Edwards on the INT was not perfect but it was pretty good. If Edwards catches it they're in the red zone. The game would have been totally different if the Ravens got the lead early.

He needs to tighten up his spirals. He could use one actually good receiver. Other than that I don't see any reason to expect he's not going to be in the conversation for the best QB in the league for years to come.

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8 minutes ago, CalBear said:

Not to mention he hit one of his receivers in the chest on what would have been a TD if the dude had bothered to look for the ball.

The pass to Edwards on the INT was not perfect but it was pretty good. If Edwards catches it they're in the red zone. The game would have been totally different if the Ravens got the lead early.

He needs to tighten up his spirals. He could use one actually good receiver. Other than that I don't see any reason to expect he's not going to be in the conversation for the best QB in the league for years to come.

Mahomes

WIlson

Jackson

Watson

 

These are your elite juggernaut QB’s moving forward IMO. All have great aspects to their game. All exciting to watch. All can extend the play better than most. All young. And all have weapons around them. 

I happen to think Josh Allen can keep developing and join this class soon. He needs a true #1 (John Brown really is better suited to be a #2 WR). And he needs to continue his improvement in the accuracy department. But he is highly athletic, can extend plays and I love his composure. He took a big step in year two IMO. I know he has a bunch of detractors, but he has the goods long term IMO. Bills fans should be happy they have a QB to develop and build around. 

Edited by Todem

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Lots o drops

Get this man some more wrs.  

A healthy Ingram would have helped a bunch too

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3 minutes ago, Todem said:

I happen to think Josh Allen can keep developing and join this class soon. He needs a true #1 (John Brown really is better suited to be a #2 WR). And he needs to continue his improvement in the accuracy department. But he is highly athletic, can extend plays and I love his composure. He took a big step in year two IMO. I know he has a bunch of detractors, but he has the goods long term IMO. Bills fans should be happy they have a QB to develop and build around. 

Here's a guy who should be a wr and not a qb.  Allen can't hit the broad side of a barn most throws and Jackson is getting critiqued because he's an exceptional runner.

Switch melanin between the two and we're talking about how amazing it is that Lamar was able to make so many plays with how little help he got from his receivers (something people say about Josh btw).

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8 minutes ago, wgoldsph said:

Here's a guy who should be a wr and not a qb.  Allen can't hit the broad side of a barn most throws and Jackson is getting critiqued because he's an exceptional runner.

Switch melanin between the two and we're talking about how amazing it is that Lamar was able to make so many plays with how little help he got from his receivers (something people say about Josh btw).

Lamar Jackson is a good passer (Year 2 he had 66% accuracy a 3% improvement from year 1). And he can become great. He is so young. Josh Allen....again accuracy is an issue.....now. He is still very young and can develop. He just needs to be 61-62%....he can get there. He was 58.8% in year 2. He made almost a 3% improvement from year 1. 

I mean for his career Dan Marino...whom I consider one of the very best to ever play the position had a 59.4% completion percentage (the Jimmy Years hurt him). 

Edited by Todem

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5 hours ago, GroveDiesel said:

If he isn’t a HOFer it’s only because the people who write about the NFL and vote on the HOF simply don’t care about guards. Yanda was dominant for a long time.

He has been selected 1st team All Pro 2 times and 2nd team All Pro 5 times. That shows he was/is a great player. That does not show he is a HOFer.

PFR has a metric they named HOF Monitor. It is imperfect for sure, but it has Yanda at 63.58, with the average HOF guard at 102.29.

:shrug: 

Edited by Just Win Baby

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1 hour ago, wgoldsph said:

Here's a guy who should be a wr and not a qb.  Allen can't hit the broad side of a barn most throws and Jackson is getting critiqued because he's an exceptional runner.

Switch melanin between the two and we're talking about how amazing it is that Lamar was able to make so many plays with how little help he got from his receivers (something people say about Josh btw).

Who is REALLY critiquing the MVP of the league Jackson because of being an exceptional runner and a very, very good QB...all at the age of 22?

I think BAL as a whole is getting critiqued (and rightfully so) because they (as the number 1) rolled over and got abused in their own house (by the number 6)....with a little bit of "extra" being thrown on because for the past 12 weeks a good portion of the football media has been on BAL's sack  and some of their fans have been a little more insufferable than usual.  

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32 minutes ago, Just Win Baby said:

He has been selected 1st team All Pro 2 times and 2nd team All Pro 5 times. That shows he was/is a great player. That does not show he is a HOFer.

PFR has a metric they named HOF Monitor. It is imperfect for sure, but it has Yanda at 63.58, with the average HOF guard at 102.29.

:shrug: 

I haven’t looked at how they determine that number for guards, but I have a hard time believing that you can create a good easily measurable metric with data available for guards.

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1 hour ago, GroveDiesel said:

I haven’t looked at how they determine that number for guards, but I have a hard time believing that you can create a good easily measurable metric with data available for guards.

I don't disagree about the challenge of building metrics to measure OL play, but I posted the average HOF guard score in the same metric, and Yanda is not close to it, although one component of the metric is Approximate Value, which only goes back to 1950. HOF Monitor is described here.

There are currently 20 guards in the HOF. 15 of them have more than 2 1st team All Pro selections. 2 of the other 5 played in the 20s-40s, and I'm really not sure how to compare across such different eras. The best comparison is probably Will Shields. He also had 2 1st team All Pro selections and 5 2nd team All Pro selections. But the offenses Shields played in were more successful, which boosts his AV, which, in turn, boosts his HOF Monitor score to 87, much higher than Yanda.

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