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Dynasty Value Discussion Thread

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47 minutes ago, -OZ- said:

As much as I like Barkley this really shouldn't be close. We hope Barkley is what we've seen from Zeke. The two years wear and tear doesn't make up for that.

I have Barkley in two leagues now, in one I'm heavily playing for the future, but would still jump on that swap.

Just playing devil's advocate here, but I think we hope Barkley is what we've seen from Zeke plus another 40 receptions. The allure of Barkley is not just the size/speed combo, but the pass catching. PPR was designed to increase the value of WR back when there were a dozen or so bellcows getting 300 carries and scat backs were handling 3rd downs... but now that bellcows are rare, if you can find a bellcow that gets 70+ receptions, he pretty much breaks the game. It's like getting two players in one lineup spot. Additionally, Zeke looked human last year... despite being on pace for 387 carries :shock: he was on pace for fewer yards and TDs than the year before. And now they've got Bo to take some of the load off of him. 387 carries is not a sustainable rate. Just ask Larry Johnson.

In PPR, 1 rec is worth about 4 carries so Barkley's upside is beyond Zeke's, IMO.

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13 hours ago, Andrew74 said:

I have the 1.08 and am in talks to move up to the 1.03.  I’ve thought about staying put since there are 8 (to me) solid RBs to draft and someone may take a WR prior to 8.  On the other hand I do like having the option to take someone with a good opportunity (like Jones or Penny) as opposed to taking what falls. What do you guys think?  How much to pay to move up?  A late first?  Early 2nd?

Depends on league scoring and current roster, but assuming 12 man non-IDP I would take a late 1st in a flash and gotta believe a 2nd gets it done easily.  I would not give a top 15 pick to move up but after 15 I'm much more open to it.   There's very little predictability from 3 to 8 so who knows who's even going to go there?  Throw in the wildcard factor (at least in my leagues) and you're gonna see the random Ridley/Moore/Mayfield picks in there too, so there's probably a 50/50 chance to see one of "your" top 2 options still there.

I have 1.04 in two and am looking to trade down and offered 1.04 for 1.07 and a future 2nd from a bad team but that is 16 man TE premium IDP so QB's, TE's, and IDP's make the 2nd a lot more valuable plus might even push another guy in front of the 1.07 - even odds I see Penny there still.

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22 minutes ago, FF Ninja said:

Just playing devil's advocate here, but I think we hope Barkley is what we've seen from Zeke plus another 40 receptions. The allure of Barkley is not just the size/speed combo, but the pass catching. PPR was designed to increase the value of WR back when there were a dozen or so bellcows getting 300 carries and scat backs were handling 3rd downs... but now that bellcows are rare, if you can find a bellcow that gets 70+ receptions, he pretty much breaks the game. It's like getting two players in one lineup spot. Additionally, Zeke looked human last year... despite being on pace for 387 carries :shock: he was on pace for fewer yards and TDs than the year before. And now they've got Bo to take some of the load off of him. 387 carries is not a sustainable rate. Just ask Larry Johnson.

In PPR, 1 rec is worth about 4 carries so Barkley's upside is beyond Zeke's, IMO.

Fair enough. I was more referring to the fact that Zeke is a top 3 back and in his 3rd year. But sure, we can hope Barkley is better than Tomlinson, Thurman Thomas and Barry Sanders put together.

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Just now, -OZ- said:

Fair enough. I was more referring to the fact that Zeke is a top 3 back and in his 3rd year. But sure, we can hope Barkley is better than Tomlinson, Thurman Thomas and Barry Sanders put together.

I think fantasy points are more important than ranking. Unless Zeke starts getting more targets, his upside is limited. Barkley doesn't have to be Barry Sanders to outscore Zeke in PPR.

Shurmur pieced together the 5th most fantasy points from RBs last year according to data dominator (all MIN RBs) and Dallas ranked 9th. It'll be interesting to see what he does with the Giants (26th). 

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49 minutes ago, FF Ninja said:

Just playing devil's advocate here, but I think we hope Barkley is what we've seen from Zeke plus another 40 receptions. The allure of Barkley is not just the size/speed combo, but the pass catching. PPR was designed to increase the value of WR back when there were a dozen or so bellcows getting 300 carries and scat backs were handling 3rd downs... but now that bellcows are rare, if you can find a bellcow that gets 70+ receptions, he pretty much breaks the game. It's like getting two players in one lineup spot. Additionally, Zeke looked human last year... despite being on pace for 387 carries :shock: he was on pace for fewer yards and TDs than the year before. And now they've got Bo to take some of the load off of him. 387 carries is not a sustainable rate. Just ask Larry Johnson.

In PPR, 1 rec is worth about 4 carries so Barkley's upside is beyond Zeke's, IMO.

I agree with you, but to play devil’s advocate to your playing devil’s advocate: Zeke runs good routes and has great hands himself. With Dez and Witten out of the picture, I can only assume the Cowboys have to start taking advantage of that. 

And Bo is zero threat to Zeke. If healthy, Zeke will be one of the top utilized backs in the league again. 

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Just now, Concept Coop said:

I agree with you, but to play devil’s advocate to your playing devil’s advocate: Zeke runs good routes and has great hands himself. With Dez and Witten out of the picture, I can only assume the Cowboys have to start taking advantage of that. 

And Bo is zero threat to Zeke. If healthy, Zeke will be one of the top utilized backs in the league again. 

But what about Rico and Gallup? ;) Kidding - don't want to get you going on Gallup again!

You think they're going to run him into the ground? They've got to be planning to give him a breather. He was on pace for almost 400 carries last year. I kind of like Bo and was surprised he fell to the 7th. I think he could be a solid fill in for Zeke if they want to keep him fresh. 

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bo's upside is a poor mans Blount, which is passable in the nfl for situational stuff, but hard to predict fantasy wise

i think even in the event of a zeke injury or suspension, bo will not be a bellcow type guy, the workload will be split unless he shows a ton of upside that nobody saw coming

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Just now, FF Ninja said:

But what about Rico and Gallup? ;) Kidding - don't want to get you going on Gallup again!

You think they're going to run him into the ground? They've got to be planning to give him a breather. He was on pace for almost 400 carries last year. I kind of like Bo and was surprised he fell to the 7th. I think he could be a solid fill in for Zeke if they want to keep him fresh. 

I don’t think they plan on giving him a second contract. They’ve shown no signs of monitoring his carries to this point. I’m not saying he’ll get 400, but he’ll be the only back getting significant carries, when healthy, just like Bell, DJ, and Gurley, and likely Barkley.

I do like Gallup and hope he has a Kupp-esque rookie season.  

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Just now, Concept Coop said:

I don’t think they plan on giving him a second contract. They’ve shown no signs of monitoring his carries to this point. I’m not saying he’ll get 400, but he’ll be the only back getting significant carries, when healthy, just like Bell, DJ, and Gurley, and likely Barkley.

I do like Gallup and hope he has a Kupp-esque rookie season.  

I was just kidding - I do believe Gallup and Rico will be steps down from Dez and Witten.

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32 minutes ago, Concept Coop said:

I agree with you, but to play devil’s advocate to your playing devil’s advocate: Zeke runs good routes and has great hands himself. With Dez and Witten out of the picture, I can only assume the Cowboys have to start taking advantage of that. 

And Bo is zero threat to Zeke. If healthy, Zeke will be one of the top utilized backs in the league again. 

All these devils advocate things are confusing me.

He's adequate at that I'd say.  No numbers or anything to back it up though.  Depth chart says they list Tavon Austin as a RB which I thought was odd.  He could be a great pass catching RB2 to Zeke if they use him that way.  Unlike Bell, DJ and Barkley, who are extraordinary at pass catching.  I do expect them to run Zeke into the ground but I take Barkley > Zeke in a startup.  ETA:  In PPR

Edited by Zyphros

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16 minutes ago, Zyphros said:

All these devils advocate things are confusing me.

He's adequate at that I'd say.  No numbers or anything to back it up though.  Depth chart says they list Tavon Austin as a RB which I thought was odd.  He could be a great pass catching RB2 to Zeke if they use him that way.  Unlike Bell, DJ and Barkley, who are extraordinary at pass catching.  I do expect them to run Zeke into the ground but I take Barkley > Zeke in a startup.  ETA:  In PPR

I’d take Barkley over Zeke as well, in part due to the receiving production I expect him to get. So I agree with FF’s take. But I also think Zeke is likely to get a bump in that area as well, and is a very talented receiver himself (much, much more than adequate). The Cowboys offense just doesn’t highlight it. It’s not as though they’ve have a COP back they targeted instead, they just haven’t targeted their backs much. 

Zeke is in the Gurley mold as a receiver, while Barkley is in the Kamara/Bell mold. I’m not saying Zeke is on Barkley’s level, but he’s really good out of the backfield.

Edited by Concept Coop

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I agree that Barkley has more PPR upside than Elliott because he can actually split out and run routes like a wide receiver. Over the last two seasons, 4 different running backs (including 2 rookies) had a season with 80+ catches (Le'Veon Bell, David Johnson, Alvin Kamara and Christian McCaffrey) and it isn't far-fetched to think we see Barkley have that type of impact as a receiver with 70+ catches. When you have that type of receiving production, it becomes possible to have these ridiculous 25-27 PPG seasons like we've seen from DJ, Bell and Gurley. 

Zeke was on pace for 40-45 receptions last season and that's probably a fair projection moving forward. He's been in the 20-22 PPG range in PPR scoring in his career despite averaging just 1 catch per game as a rookie and running behind a less than 100% line most of 2017. There's certainly upside for him to get more in the 22-24 PPG range. But it's hard to see him ever putting together a 411 point season like DJ did in 2016 because Elliott's not going to be an 80-catch guy, whereas Barkley might be. 

I don't think there's much of an argument that Zeke's floor is higher though. He has proven his game translates well to the NFL. He will be behind a loaded offensive line moving forward and will probably have the same QB the next decade. You feel pretty good locking him in for 20+ PPG over the medium-term. As safe a projection as Barkley seems, you never know. Maybe he's the 25+ PPG guy or maybe he's only 16 PPG.

I think the balance of risk/reward slightly favors Zeke but I can definitely understand the argument for Barkley in PPR format.

 

Edited by bengalbuck
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18 minutes ago, bengalbuck said:

I agree that Barkley has more PPR upside than Elliott because he can actually split out and run routes like a wide receiver. Over the last two seasons, 4 different running backs (including 2 rookies) had a season with 80+ catches (Le'Veon Bell, David Johnson, Alvin Kamara and Christian McCaffrey) and it isn't far-fetched to think we see Barkley have that type of impact as a receiver with 70+ catches. When you have that type of receiving production, it becomes possible to have these ridiculous 25-27 PPG seasons like we've seen from DJ, Bell and Gurley. 

Zeke was on pace for 40-45 receptions last season and that's probably a fair projection moving forward. He's been in the 20-22 PPG range in PPR scoring in his career despite averaging just 1 catch per game as a rookie and running behind a less than 100% line most of 2017. There's certainly upside for him to get more in the 22-24 PPG range. But it's hard to see him ever putting together a 411 point season like DJ did in 2016 because Elliott's not going to be an 80-catch guy, whereas Barkley might be. 

I don't think there's much of an argument that Zeke's floor is higher though. He has proven his game translates well to the NFL. He will be behind a loaded offensive line moving forward and will probably have the same QB the next decade. You feel pretty good locking him in for 20+ PPG over the medium-term. As safe a projection as Barkley seems, you never know. Maybe he's the 25+ PPG guy or maybe he's only 16 PPG.

I think the balance of risk/reward slightly favors Zeke but I can definitely understand the argument for Barkley in PPR format.

 

I agree with pretty much everything here but I'd add that the Dallas passing game is not looking all that threatening and I'd expect at least in the short term that Elliot faces a lot more defenses putting 8 in the box than Barkley does.

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19 minutes ago, Pwingles said:

Ingram or the 1.05

12 team, ppr, can start several Rbs

1.05 by a little bit.  I'd expect Ingram to be in the late 1st, or 2 2nd's (2.02/2.07) type of deal.  

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11 minutes ago, Aunt Jemima said:

I agree with pretty much everything here but I'd add that the Dallas passing game is not looking all that threatening and I'd expect at least in the short term that Elliot faces a lot more defenses putting 8 in the box than Barkley does.

Fair point, I do think the loss of Witten might hurt because who knows what the young backups will be able to do. 

Though I also think you can argue that (1) Dez hasn't been good the last two years, so Hurns probably isn't a downgrade except in name value and (2) Dak's ability as a runner and the option on most plays for him to pull the ball out and take off himself if the defense crashes down too hard helps partially take away one of the run defenders. Having that dual threat QB usually helps the RB have better running lanes.

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18 minutes ago, Zyphros said:

1.05 by a little bit.  I'd expect Ingram to be in the late 1st, or 2 2nd's (2.02/2.07) type of deal.  

I can't seem to give Ingram away. Which rookie RBs are viewed as about even value trade for Ingram in PPR?

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1 hour ago, Pwingles said:

Ingram or the 1.05

12 team, ppr, can start several Rbs

1.05 by a lot. I’d maybe consider giving up a mid second for him, but that’s it.

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34 minutes ago, Magic_Man said:

I can't seem to give Ingram away. Which rookie RBs are viewed as about even value trade for Ingram in PPR?

I think you could get Kerryon for him. I think he's worth more than Freeman but the Freeman owner probably feels differently. I think it's tough to get Rojones, Chubb, Penny, Michel for him even if you add a late 2nd. That puts his value about 1.10 for me.

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1 hour ago, bengalbuck said:

I agree that Barkley has more PPR upside than Elliott because he can actually split out and run routes like a wide receiver. Over the last two seasons, 4 different running backs (including 2 rookies) had a season with 80+ catches (Le'Veon Bell, David Johnson, Alvin Kamara and Christian McCaffrey) and it isn't far-fetched to think we see Barkley have that type of impact as a receiver with 70+ catches. When you have that type of receiving production, it becomes possible to have these ridiculous 25-27 PPG seasons like we've seen from DJ, Bell and Gurley. 

Zeke was on pace for 40-45 receptions last season and that's probably a fair projection moving forward. He's been in the 20-22 PPG range in PPR scoring in his career despite averaging just 1 catch per game as a rookie and running behind a less than 100% line most of 2017. There's certainly upside for him to get more in the 22-24 PPG range. But it's hard to see him ever putting together a 411 point season like DJ did in 2016 because Elliott's not going to be an 80-catch guy, whereas Barkley might be. 

I don't think there's much of an argument that Zeke's floor is higher though. He has proven his game translates well to the NFL. He will be behind a loaded offensive line moving forward and will probably have the same QB the next decade. You feel pretty good locking him in for 20+ PPG over the medium-term. As safe a projection as Barkley seems, you never know. Maybe he's the 25+ PPG guy or maybe he's only 16 PPG.

I think the balance of risk/reward slightly favors Zeke but I can definitely understand the argument for Barkley in PPR format.

Good post and tangent of discussion. Surprised no one has mentioned that Barkley is about 2.5 years younger than Elliott. Also, in his last 4 football seasons, Elliott had this many touches: 301, 316, 387, 280. Compare that to Barkley's last 3 seasons: 202, 300, 271.

2.5 years younger and a lot less mileage seems to favor Barkley by a considerable amount in this comparison.

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8 minutes ago, kutta said:

1.05 by a lot. I’d maybe consider giving up a mid second for him, but that’s it.

idk about "a lot" , I think its relatively close, but dont think its out of the question for the ingram side to add something small

All the players you are getting at the 1.05 are in very weird situations, if you are contending and want a contributing starter, i think its a good spot. If im rebuilding then id pass

 

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8 hours ago, Pwingles said:

idk about "a lot" , I think its relatively close, but dont think its out of the question for the ingram side to add something small

All the players you are getting at the 1.05 are in very weird situations, if you are contending and want a contributing starter, i think its a good spot. If im rebuilding then id pass

 

I'd still say a lot.

Ingram will be 29 at the end of next year. Sure, he had a great year last year, but Kamara will be taking over that backfield, IMO.

At 1.05, you will be getting a potential stud. Two of RoJo, Chubb, Sony, Guice, and Penny will be there at 1.05. I'll take any of them pretty handily over Ingram.

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What’s the value of Lockett? After rookie year everyone loved him now his stock seems in the doldrums. Personally I think he’s flying way under the radar. Seems like he could get 70+ receptions with P-Rich and Graham gone, Baldwin a year older and only Jaron Brown brought in to compete. 

What would you buy and sell for?

 

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1 hour ago, jeaton6 said:

What’s the value of Lockett? After rookie year everyone loved him now his stock seems in the doldrums. Personally I think he’s flying way under the radar. Seems like he could get 70+ receptions with P-Rich and Graham gone, Baldwin a year older and only Jaron Brown brought in to compete. 

What would you buy and sell for?

 

I've been wondering the same thing. I have never owned him. He is available as a FA in a couple spots so I'm looking to target him in rookie/FA drafts maybe mid 3rd? If I had room and already owned him I'd probably hold. Or a throw in to get a bigger deal done.

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33 minutes ago, barackdhouse said:

I've been wondering the same thing. I have never owned him. He is available as a FA in a couple spots so I'm looking to target him in rookie/FA drafts maybe mid 3rd? If I had room and already owned him I'd probably hold. Or a throw in to get a bigger deal done.

Yeah both he and Hurns are available in a rookie/FA draft in one of my leagues.  I'm wondering if either will make it to 3.07.  Hurns most likely not.

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He’s flashed in the past and shown he can make Big plays. I feel like I’d rather have him than guys like Pettis, Chark, maybe even Washington. Seems like a pretty direct path to WR2 and targets. Not sure of these others. I was sort of thinking I’d pay a late 2 for him.

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21 minutes ago, jeaton6 said:

He’s flashed in the past and shown he can make Big plays. I feel like I’d rather have him than guys like Pettis, Chark, maybe even Washington. Seems like a pretty direct path to WR2 and targets. Not sure of these others. I was sort of thinking I’d pay a late 2 for him.

I honestly can't think of anyone in that range of a rookie pick that would make me argue with you on that. Maybe a couple vets if they are available in your draft. I have a couple where Burton is available in TE premiums and might pay a late 1st. Lockett in late 2nd seems about right.

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5 hours ago, barackdhouse said:

I honestly can't think of anyone in that range of a rookie pick that would make me argue with you on that. Maybe a couple vets if they are available in your draft. I have a couple where Burton is available in TE premiums and might pay a late 1st. Lockett in late 2nd seems about right.

I own Lockett in a couple leagues, and I think he’s flying a little under the radar. I was worried Pryor was going to sign but then didn’t, then thought theyd draft someone and they didn’t. I might have taken a mid/late 2nd for him earlier in the offseason or I’d want to see who’s there otc now.  Late 2nd probably not. I’ve tried including him on some offers but no takers. Nice to see a little chatter about him. I think the best way to get him is perhaps as a throw in on a bigger deal.  If I had something in the works, Lockett wouldn’t be a dealbreaker. I’d happily throw him in to get a guy I want. 

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On 5/4/2018 at 9:33 PM, jeaton6 said:

What’s the value of Lockett? After rookie year everyone loved him now his stock seems in the doldrums. Personally I think he’s flying way under the radar. Seems like he could get 70+ receptions with P-Rich and Graham gone, Baldwin a year older and only Jaron Brown brought in to compete. 

What would you buy and sell for?

 

He is a buy. Tier two WR.

He put up good numbers over a short stretch of time while Graham was out. Graham is gone so I can see those numbers returning.

As far as the price a later 2nd round pick sounds like a deal to me, but then Snorkelson's response indicates that Lockett owners may want more for him than that. I would as well.

Just looking at my rookie lists and nothing else I like him about as much as DJ Moore, Anthony Miller and Christian Kirk, so around pick 12 or 13 I am thinking about it.

I agree the best tactic may be to include Lockett in a package deal if you can.

Mike Clay has him at 138 overall just after Hurns at 137 this is after Kirk, Miller and Gallup, but before Gesicki, Smith Coutee, Pettis.

According to this ADP he isn't in the top 188 players.

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Has Gronkowski been discussed recently?  If you're a contender, but also mindful of managing your dynasty long-term, and have a viable TE alternative already, what would it take to get him from you?  TE premium?

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2 hours ago, Hankmoody said:

Has Gronkowski been discussed recently?  If you're a contender, but also mindful of managing your dynasty long-term, and have a viable TE alternative already, what would it take to get him from you?  TE premium?

A buyer. 

JK but I sold him successfully two months ago and got what I would call a good deal. Others maybe not. IDK. In the one other league I have him I have tried but can't even hardly get a conversation going. The one person that seems possibly interested basically said he already has too many shares. 

Bottom line is I want more in return than anyone is likely to give, so I'm probably holding until he retires. I don't mind. 

My earlier deal was Gronk, Kelvin and Dez for J Gordon, 1.05, 2.02, ASJ, Jonnu Smith. 

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3 hours ago, Hankmoody said:

Has Gronkowski been discussed recently?  If you're a contender, but also mindful of managing your dynasty long-term, and have a viable TE alternative already, what would it take to get him from you?  TE premium?

All my leagues have finished rebuilds and now contenders, and TE premium mostly, I wouldn't buy Gronk.  He's on the older side with tons of injuries on a team in turmoil with questions at QB and debating retirement.  Not exactly inspiring confidence.  If any of those questions were about any other TE they'd instantly be TE8 or worse, but it's Gronk so people let it slide since he's THAT good when he's playing.  

I have him in dynasty rankings around guys like OJ Howard, Njoku, Diggs, Jeffery, Baldwin, basically all the rookie RB's other than Guice and Barkley and others I just didn't list.  I'd say he's worth a mid 1st at best, probably not enough for his owners to part with him though.  And again, I'd never buy him.  

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Re: Gronk

We are in the midst of our RFA period in one league. We get $500/year and it rolls over year over year. We give max 4 year contracts to players.

Gronk, Ertz, and Kelce were all up this year.

Kelce went for $300, Ertz for $250, and Gronk for $150. I thought it was light for Gronk, but not out of order.

Personally, I'd give a future late 1st for Gronk if I needed a TE. I wouldn't give a mid 1st.

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What are you guys seeing Njoku going  for?

Tex

Edited by BigTex

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On 5/4/2018 at 9:33 PM, jeaton6 said:

What’s the value of Lockett? After rookie year everyone loved him now his stock seems in the doldrums. Personally I think he’s flying way under the radar. Seems like he could get 70+ receptions with P-Rich and Graham gone, Baldwin a year older and only Jaron Brown brought in to compete. 

What would you buy and sell for?

I'm not enamored with the 2nd round this year, so I'd probably buy for more and require more to sell. I'd be willing to part with a mid-2nd for him and would require a high 2nd to sell (although I don't own him). Then again, I'm higher on Lockett than most.

As always, this depends on roster construction. If he was, for some unfortunate reason, my WR3 then I wouldn't sell for a high 2nd since I expect his 2018 production to exceed any rookie drafted in the 2nd round (a pretty low bar). 

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7 hours ago, BigTex said:

What are you guys seeing Njoku going  for?

Tex

I primarily play TE premium and im not seeing much action for him. I own him in most of my leagues, but the ones i dont, he still isnt being moved.

I had a few probing offers for him, and a couple reasonable ones. Best offer i got was H Henry straight up. Also was offered a likely late '19 1st, turned down both.

In a 1 TE non premium league, his value to his owner is likely high still because of the investment, he was likely a mid to late first last year in a lot of leagues. But you might be able to buy a little cheaper right now, and leading up to rookie drafts. Id rather have him than any of the TEs this year by a ton. Someone might give him up for a super late 1 or early 2 otc to move into that pick.

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28 minutes ago, Pwingles said:

I primarily play TE premium and im not seeing much action for him. I own him in most of my leagues, but the ones i dont, he still isnt being moved.

I had a few probing offers for him, and a couple reasonable ones. Best offer i got was H Henry straight up. Also was offered a likely late '19 1st, turned down both.

In a 1 TE non premium league, his value to his owner is likely high still because of the investment, he was likely a mid to late first last year in a lot of leagues. But you might be able to buy a little cheaper right now, and leading up to rookie drafts. Id rather have him than any of the TEs this year by a ton. Someone might give him up for a super late 1 or early 2 otc to move into that pick.

You turned down Hunter Henry for Njoku? I woulda jumped at that.

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23 minutes ago, fruity pebbles said:

You turned down Hunter Henry for Njoku? I woulda jumped at that.

Yeahwut.  Snap accept that puppy.

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Any post-trade thoughts on Martavis Bryant?  Better?  Worse?

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1 hour ago, Pwingles said:

I primarily play TE premium and im not seeing much action for him. I own him in most of my leagues, but the ones i dont, he still isnt being moved.

I had a few probing offers for him, and a couple reasonable ones. Best offer i got was H Henry straight up. Also was offered a likely late '19 1st, turned down both.

In a 1 TE non premium league, his value to his owner is likely high still because of the investment, he was likely a mid to late first last year in a lot of leagues. But you might be able to buy a little cheaper right now, and leading up to rookie drafts. Id rather have him than any of the TEs this year by a ton. Someone might give him up for a super late 1 or early 2 otc to move into that pick.

Yeah I’ve searched the forums and there’s not a lot of movement at all. I’m not sure if that’s a good thing or bad. I agree, I’d rather have him over any TE in this draft the connection with Mayfield (eventually) has the potential to be huge! I’m trying to acquire him now before his value begins to rise. I was thinking of sending one of my late 1st for him the current own took him at 1.4 so I’m not sure how he feels about accepting a later pick. I’m guessing the current owner is probably going to want one of my backs but we’ll see.

Tex

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1 hour ago, Hankmoody said:

Any post-trade thoughts on Martavis Bryant?  Better?  Worse?

I like it.  It's probably a lateral move NFL wise but there's less competition in Oakland for fantasy points.  I always thought he could be a WR1, and this is his year to show it since he's still on rookie contract for this year, then he's a FA.  He'll be an interesting guy to watch all year to see what kind of value he commands in 2019.  

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4 hours ago, fruity pebbles said:

You turned down Hunter Henry for Njoku? I woulda jumped at that.

 

4 hours ago, Hankmoody said:

Yeahwut.  Snap accept that puppy.

At the time he was just another prospect, his second year wasnt going great and his 1st year was obviously an outlier.

I had a few reasons for doing it, I like Njokus ceiling, i had pretty good Tes and could afford to wait, wasnt sure how Gates' situation was going to play out, or Rivers for that matter. Seemed at the time like what would end up being a lateral move at best if I really liked Njoku, which I obv do. So I held.

Might regret it in the long run, and I think people are hyped on HH right now because his opportunity has come, so he is obv more valuable short term. When Njokus comes, if it comes, it will be the same type of stuff im sure

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2 hours ago, Pwingles said:

 

At the time he was just another prospect, his second year wasnt going great and his 1st year was obviously an outlier.

I had a few reasons for doing it, I like Njokus ceiling, i had pretty good Tes and could afford to wait, wasnt sure how Gates' situation was going to play out, or Rivers for that matter. Seemed at the time like what would end up being a lateral move at best if I really liked Njoku, which I obv do. So I held.

Might regret it in the long run, and I think people are hyped on HH right now because his opportunity has come, so he is obv more valuable short term. When Njokus comes, if it comes, it will be the same type of stuff im sure

Ok you should probably specify when it's an older offer like that because obviously when situations change so will valuations.  I always held the faith in HH and never bought into Njoku (traded out of his OTC pick twice) but I can see the personal preference at the beginning of last season in particular.

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16 minutes ago, Magic_Man said:

Does Everett have any value?

Why would he not? 2nd year TE... 2017 2.12 pick. 

Edited by FF Ninja

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34 minutes ago, Hankmoody said:

Ok you should probably specify when it's an older offer like that because obviously when situations change so will valuations.  I always held the faith in HH and never bought into Njoku (traded out of his OTC pick twice) but I can see the personal preference at the beginning of last season in particular.

my bad, ill include the timeframe next time so you can accurately hate my decisions :)

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6 hours ago, Zyphros said:

I like it.  It's probably a lateral move NFL wise but there's less competition in Oakland for fantasy points.  I always thought he could be a WR1, and this is his year to show it since he's still on rookie contract for this year, then he's a FA.  He'll be an interesting guy to watch all year to see what kind of value he commands in 2019.  

Agreed. As a Raiders fan and Bryant owner, I'm hopeful on both fronts. He had direct competition from JuJu in Pitt, but now he just has to contend for snaps with Nelson, which seems like a much easier hill to climb. Plus he's playing on a prove-it deal, so I hope he blows up.

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21 minutes ago, joey said:
7 hours ago, Zyphros said:

I like it.  It's probably a lateral move NFL wise but there's less competition in Oakland for fantasy points.  I always thought he could be a WR1, and this is his year to show it since he's still on rookie contract for this year, then he's a FA.  He'll be an interesting guy to watch all year to see what kind of value he commands in 2019.  

Agreed. As a Raiders fan and Bryant owner, I'm hopeful on both fronts. He had direct competition from JuJu in Pitt, but now he just has to contend for snaps with Nelson, which seems like a much easier hill to climb. Plus he's playing on a prove-it deal, so I hope he blows up.

Who is going to play the slot in OAK? Cooper? I think of both Nelson and Bryant as outside WRs, but I could be wrong on that. The reason I ask is because OAK traded for WR Switzer in the draft, and he is a slot WR.

I realize he didn't play much in his rookie season last year in DAL, but his skill set was wholly redundant to Beasley. He had 96/1112/6 receiving in his senior season in 2016 at UNC, so he seems to have talent.

I'm not sure if OAK actually has a strong slot WR, unless they want to play Cooper heavily out of the slot to help him avoid press coverage, which he struggles with. Just pointing out that saying he only has to contend with Jordy for snaps might not be completely true.

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9 hours ago, Pwingles said:

I primarily play TE premium and im not seeing much action for him. I own him in most of my leagues, but the ones i dont, he still isnt being moved.

I had a few probing offers for him, and a couple reasonable ones. Best offer i got was H Henry straight up. Also was offered a likely late '19 1st, turned down both.

In a 1 TE non premium league, his value to his owner is likely high still because of the investment, he was likely a mid to late first last year in a lot of leagues. But you might be able to buy a little cheaper right now, and leading up to rookie drafts. Id rather have him than any of the TEs this year by a ton. Someone might give him up for a super late 1 or early 2 otc to move into that pick.

Njoku's first season was rookieish as to be expected with those QB and him being still raw and inexperienced. He still didn't do too bad 60 targets 32 receptions 386 yards 4 TD. 

A big problem with the outlook for him is that Seth DeValve had similar opportunity as Njoku 58 targets 33 receptions 395 yards 1 TD.

As long as these two are splitting opportunities it makes it difficult for either of them to be able to break into the top 12 at the TE position.

I still think Njoku can do it either this year or in 2019. Improved accuracy from QB play should bring up his catch percentage and he is already showing he can score TD.

Rookie fever is in full effect right now and some seem to think the 2018 draft class is a great one. While I do think its good, most of the talent in my view is in the QB and RB positions and overall I don't think it is stronger than recent drafts have been. I know some will disagree with this, but the WR talent just isn't there this year and the landing spots for the rookie TEs isn't very good either. 

I haven't tried to do a combined rookie ranking yet, just started thinking about that, but if Njoku were in the 2018 draft I would likely have him ranked 8th overall in the class. You can almost certainly buy him for a pick later than that. I think he is a buy but the presence of DeValve remains a concern.

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