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The Russia Investigation: Trump Pardons Flynn (11 Viewers)
- Thread starter whoknew
- Start date
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Nov. 10th - Obama warns Trump about Flynn
Dec. 29th - Obama implements sanctions vs Russia
Dec. 29th - Flynn discusses sanctions with Russians
Jan. 6th - Comey briefs Trump on USIC findings about Russian interference in elections
Jan. 24th - Flynn is interviewed by FBI, and lies
Jan. 26th - Yates warns WH officials about Flynn, and informs them that Flynn lied about Russian contacts
Jan. 27th - Trump and Comey have dinner and Trump asks Comey for loyalty
Jan. 30th - Trump fires Yates
Feb. 13th - Post reports WH has known for weeks that Flynn lied, but done nothing
Feb. 13th - Trump Fires Flynn within hours
Feb. 14th - Trump asks Comey to take it easy on Flynn
Yeah. Admitting he knew Flynn lied when he fired him is pretty stupid.
Dec. 29th - Obama implements sanctions vs Russia
Dec. 29th - Flynn discusses sanctions with Russians
Jan. 6th - Comey briefs Trump on USIC findings about Russian interference in elections
Jan. 24th - Flynn is interviewed by FBI, and lies
Jan. 26th - Yates warns WH officials about Flynn, and informs them that Flynn lied about Russian contacts
Jan. 27th - Trump and Comey have dinner and Trump asks Comey for loyalty
Jan. 30th - Trump fires Yates
Feb. 13th - Post reports WH has known for weeks that Flynn lied, but done nothing
Feb. 13th - Trump Fires Flynn within hours
Feb. 14th - Trump asks Comey to take it easy on Flynn
Yeah. Admitting he knew Flynn lied when he fired him is pretty stupid.
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TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Koya
Footballguy
I'm missing something here. Isn't Trump claiming that he knows of the lies now because of Flynn's plea?
So we got him on obstruction for sure.
Daniel DaleVerified account @ddale8
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Trump had never previously acknowledged knowing Flynn lied to the FBI at the time of the firing - and the day after the firing, he asked Comey to let Flynn slide.
whoknew
Footballguy
He said he fired Flynn for lying to the VP AND lying to the FBI. So at the time of firing, he knew Flynn lied to the FBI.
Koya
Footballguy
Koya
Footballguy
Dedfin
Footballguy
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Dedfin
Footballguy
I think he's laying groundwork for an incompetency defense, and I only say that half-joking.
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Gr00vus
Footballguy
An issue I'm curious about, not directly related to Flynn/Nuclear Deal/Sanctions.
I was really impressed with how quickly the Trump campaign established an incredibly sophisticated big data and targeted marketing campaign in summer 2016. They went from 0 to 100 in a couple of months. Up until just before nomination, the Trump campaign was chaotic at best, had little to no ground game and had nothing resembling advanced technical capabilities. At the time, this instant data analytic/exploitation program was attributed to Kushner, he was highlighted as the leader of that effort.
Now we know more. Russian actors definitely were engaged in tech based activities for the benefit of Trump. And we've learned Kushner couldn't organize a pillow fight at a summer camp, much less a highly advanced technological campaign platform. I want to know, and I hope Mueller is examining, how that program came to be and how it was run and managed. I believe on the surface, the notion is they contracted out with private entities. Were those private entities fronts for Russian government agents? Were Russian government agents directly involved in setting up and running those capabilities? If so, what laws, if any would that breech?
I was really impressed with how quickly the Trump campaign established an incredibly sophisticated big data and targeted marketing campaign in summer 2016. They went from 0 to 100 in a couple of months. Up until just before nomination, the Trump campaign was chaotic at best, had little to no ground game and had nothing resembling advanced technical capabilities. At the time, this instant data analytic/exploitation program was attributed to Kushner, he was highlighted as the leader of that effort.
Now we know more. Russian actors definitely were engaged in tech based activities for the benefit of Trump. And we've learned Kushner couldn't organize a pillow fight at a summer camp, much less a highly advanced technological campaign platform. I want to know, and I hope Mueller is examining, how that program came to be and how it was run and managed. I believe on the surface, the notion is they contracted out with private entities. Were those private entities fronts for Russian government agents? Were Russian government agents directly involved in setting up and running those capabilities? If so, what laws, if any would that breech?
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Sure. But I don’t see the big deal here.
Trump has not admitted that he pressured Comey to lay off Flynn. And Trump has not unambiguously admitted that he fired Comey because he wouldn’t lay off Flynn.
If Trump did either of those things, that’s obstruction even without the tweet. If he didn’t do them, I don’t see how the tweet admits obstruction.
The tweet was moronic, but I don’t think it’s the gotcha that Twitter seems to think it is.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Live by the tweet, die by the tweet. That may end up being one of the dumbest things you'll ever see in real time.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
Looking at the timeline @Dinsy Ejotuz posted above - forget Comey, consider the timing of the Yates firing. Assuming Trump knew of Flynn's lying prior to that (a reasonable assumption would be that Yates informed Trump of the lying herself, if Trump did not know of it already), could that be considered obstruction of justice? Is your contention that obstruction can not be proved without Trump admitting he fired those people because he wanted to protect Flynn?
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SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
It establishes knowledge of a crime. At that point, he can't argue he was just pleading for a friend and it had nothing to do with knowledge of any crime. Then that's what he was thinking when he talked to Comey. He just proved his own mental state.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Nixon: "I am a crook."
- No, Don, that's not how it's done.
- No, Don, that's not how it's done.
Sheriff Bart
Footballguy
Koya
Footballguy
Mario Kart
Footballguy
You guys are making way too much of a big deal over any insistence of Obstruction of Justice going on. There are way more bigger fish to fry than any possible corruption. We need tax cuts, people! Get in line, tow the line, and get the tax reform bill to help the billionaire needy. Freaking Americans need to get their priorities straight. TAX CUTS, PEOPLE... TAX CUTS!!!!!
Yes, the tweet makes it easier to establish obstruction for exactly that reason (assuming his forthcoming attempts to explain it away as a misstatement aren’t successful). But establishing that Trump ever mentioned Flynn to Comey is still part of the case. Has Trump admitted that? If not, I don’t think it’s correct to say that Trump has admitted to obstruction. The case for obstruction still depends on facts not admitted by Trump.
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I’m not saying it can’t be proved without him admitting that. I’m saying it can’t be proved based strictly on his own admissions without him admitting that.
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PlasmaDogPlasma
Footballguy
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Comey's testimony and contemporary notes are treated as direct evidence (or somesuch) IIRC. It doesn't matter what Trump admits re: any request to Comey. If Comey's notes say that happened (as reported), after Trump knew Flynn had lied to the FBI, it seems like cut and dried obstruction, no?
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Gr00vus
Footballguy
His own admissions combined with his own actions (firing two people who brought knowledge of Flynn's impropriety to him or were investigating Flynn's impropriety), wouldn't be enough? Too circumstantial? Is there enough there with this to at least merit bringing impeachment based on obstruction of justice?
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SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
badmojo1006
Footballguy
Sheriff Bart
Footballguy
7,8, stay up on Twitter late
Comey’s testimony about what Trump said is treated as admissible, but it’s not treated as gospel. Trump is allowed to contradict Comey and then the jury has to decide whom to believe. Could be a really tough call.
But all of this is beside the narrow point of whether that tweet, in and of itself, constitutes an admission of obstruction. Any testimony from Comey is extraneous to that tweet.
urbanhack
Fight The Power!
plus...
- no constant lying
- no petty social wars (maybe)
- no twitter ####
- no self enrichment
Mario Kart
Footballguy
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Gr00vus
Footballguy
Without going back over every post in this thread, I don't believe that was what people were contending. I think the notion was that that tweet in combination with past events/statements may establish obstruction.
The Indestructible
Footballguy
@jamescomey
Beautiful Long Island Sound from Westport, CT. To paraphrase the Buddha — Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun; the moon; and the truth.
Comey just crushing it on Twitter.
Beautiful Long Island Sound from Westport, CT. To paraphrase the Buddha — Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun; the moon; and the truth.
Comey just crushing it on Twitter.
Koya
Footballguy
Have you missed that last 20 years, where the GOP, as baseline practice and an underlying strategy, has worked to swing the pendulum right and then break the pendulum? Gerrymandering and other forms of proactive dismantling of the very foundation of a democracy in right to vote has been designed to pull the pendulum until it rips off and then declare victory even as the electorate as a whole is growing even more blue by the day.
Heck, with the worst candidate possible, the Dems STILL beat the Reps by over 2 million votes at the Presidential level
Sheriff Bart
Footballguy
9,10, never use a gold toilet again
Dedfin
Footballguy
Makes me wonder why Comey is unloading with these statements now. Seems like we are only halfway through, but these tweets are nearly celebratory.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Too bad I think his move a week before the election was the final nail in Hillary's coffin
kwille
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I think that's a good point but if that were so then firing her before her meeting laying it all out to McGahn looks a lot worse.
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Just gonna keep racking up the obstruction charges and probably put a cherry on top by firing Mueller.
Koya
Footballguy
We aren't close to halfway, but he knows who's got what and what that means down the road.
I mean, no one knows the outcome, but let's say the coaching staff caught like every possible cue from its opponent. New all the signs, found a fault in their base key schemes offensively and defensively - something you know could not possibly be overcome regardless what you opponent and the unknown provide.
Papa is probably on wires in talks or something like that. Manaforts rolling. Flynn has been toppled and is now jelly in the hands of the investigators. Trump adds another semi admission of guilt - on freakin twitter, which becomes all the more damning in the context of the other facts, actions and his own words and deeds in this case.
You have just rolled them twice on offence once marching down the field, going up 7-0 with Papa. You stop them cold on D, get good field position - BOOM, first play it's now 14-0. Three plays later, their QB sacked fumbles, run in for a TD.
its early, but there's just nothing that will stop the train you are watching. And when you have a real rooting interest, it's not just schadenfraude, you are part of that winning.
And it's 21-0, 5 min into the first quarter, and you know that you've barely broken out the killer game plan.
I see Comeys tweets like this. He sees what's happening as he likely expected but couldn't "know" and he knows that this is the nothing burger part of the investigation relatively speaking. Between his knowledge of the process, the tactics and the facts (some) of this case, I think Comey is having a nice sense of personal satisfaction (it's his rep in the line here really) not only watching, but knowing the worst / best has yet to even begin.
Koya
Footballguy
I do believe he knows that and regrets it. He did what he probably felt was right, at great risk to his career you'd have to say, but we all make the wrong decisions at times.
Helluva time for what appears to be a pretty damn solid guy even at the high levels in which he worked
the moops
Footballguy
What do you think is more likely.
1. Flynn lied about legal and totally normal conversations yet still chose to take a plea deal
or
2. He lied about nefarious stuff and chose to take a plea to save his ###
Not sure about you, but if Trump was my boss, and all I was accused of was lying about mundane stuff, I take my chances and ask big boss man for a pardon
