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***Official PSF Moderation Thread***

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1 minute ago, toshiba said:
37 minutes ago, rockaction said:
45 minutes ago, HellToupee said:

Christ almighty the guy apologized , he made a separate thread for it. 

Forget it. There's something wrong with this human being and has been for a while. I humored it and tried to encourage productive conversation, but it's not to be had. 

I hope you are not saying your apology was just humoring people, because that was one of the more classy things I have seen on this board in some time.  It is fair to assume that if you thought you did something worth apologizing for that some will accept it and other's won't.  Let your apology stand on it's own merits.  I think it is fair to just direct anyone who wants to continue the discussion of your use of that term to that apology.  If it isn't good enough to someone there isn't anything else you can say, just moving forward avoid that term and act the way your wonderful (in my view) apology indicates you have evolve to.

:goodposting:

 

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52 minutes ago, HellToupee said:

Christ almighty the guy apologized , he made a separate thread for it. 

It's the same level of ridiculous over the top drama that it was in 2016 from this guy.  

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1 hour ago, Koya said:

 

I guess that’s a bit disturbing too, that with all the over moderation in this board, including the inability to tactfully if harshly point out difficult truths, but truths nonetheless, someone can use the slur in question, others can literally make jokes using it, and apparently that’s ok by the rules of this board.

 

We don't have an official list of how offensive every possible term can be. Looking at this after it blew up, clearly quite a few people saw the term as offensive. I would say the term is offensive. And the thread was deleted. In a perfect world, the moderators would spend the time needed (and it's a good bit) to go through post by post and edit out the offensive posts. In reality, when a thread gets that many reports and it's that big, the whole thing will be deleted as what happened yesterday. 

From what I could see, this seemed to be a situation of differing on how offensive a term was. A situation like that is often something we'll not suspend a poster for. But it can be a gray area without a lot of clarity. Which is basically everything on this board from a moderation standpoint. 

He made a completely new thread and offered a heartfelt apology. I'm sorry to year you think we have such a low standard for how I operate and "the rules of the board". But pretty much disappointing everyone there is about what I've come to understand is reality. 

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2 minutes ago, Ramblin Wreck said:

It's the same level of ridiculous over the top drama that it was in 2016 from this guy.  

It’s like a guy angrily yelling out his window and shaking his fist 

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5 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

But pretty much disappointing everyone there is about what I've come to understand is reality. 

Sounds like you take the Rick Nelson approach 


“You see, ya can't please everyone, so ya got to please yourself“

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1 minute ago, HellToupee said:

Sounds like you take the Rick Nelson approach 


“You see, ya can't please everyone, so ya got to please yourself“

Except moderating this board is beyond unpleasant. 

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2 minutes ago, HellToupee said:

Sounds like you take the Rick Nelson approach 


“You see, ya can't please everyone, so ya got to please yourself“

“Garden Party”- love that song. 

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25 minutes ago, toshiba said:

I hope you are not saying your apology was just humoring people, because that was one of the more classy things I have seen on this board in some time.  It is fair to assume that if you thought you did something worth apologizing for that some will accept it and other's won't.  Let your apology stand on it's own merits.  I think it is fair to just direct anyone who wants to continue the discussion of your use of that term to that apology.  If it isn't good enough to someone there isn't anything else you can say, just moving forward avoid that term and act the way your wonderful (in my view) apology indicates you have evolve to.

Hey toshiba,

You're very accurate and I should just let it rest. And I will. I was speaking about prior experiences.

I did not mean to indicate I was just humoring people. Nothing could be further from the truth.

I hope this clarifies that a bit. 

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41 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

We don't have an official list of how offensive every possible term can be. Looking at this after it blew up, clearly quite a few people saw the term as offensive. I would say the term is offensive. And the thread was deleted. In a perfect world, the moderators would spend the time needed (and it's a good bit) to go through post by post and edit out the offensive posts. In reality, when a thread gets that many reports and it's that big, the whole thing will be deleted as what happened yesterday. 

From what I could see, this seemed to be a situation of differing on how offensive a term was. A situation like that is often something we'll not suspend a poster for. But it can be a gray area without a lot of clarity. Which is basically everything on this board from a moderation standpoint. 

He made a completely new thread and offered a heartfelt apology. I'm sorry to year you think we have such a low standard for how I operate and "the rules of the board". But pretty much disappointing everyone there is about what I've come to understand is reality. 

I don't think there's a moderation failure here.  I don't even think, long-term, there's a poster failure here.  While the poster in question originally doubled down, intentionally offended, and attempted to use it as a badge of honor, he eventually issued an apology to the people who need to hear it.  It was an opportunity for some introspection and empathy, and while it didn't go that way when originally suggested, it did go that way eventually.  Which is ultimately (I hope) what matters.  

If the thread had been axed immediately, it wouldn't have gone that way.  If the thread hadn't been axed at all, I don't think it would have gone that way.  If he'd been suspended it wouldn't have gone that way.  Feels like the right set of events all around, in the end.

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I'll also say this:

My original post in that thread was, in substance, this:

"That word is a vulgar slur.  Your views on this topic are bigoted and unsupportable in rational discourse.  You should consider looking at that part of your worldview."

It was terse, and I probably could have fleshed it out a lot more and had it be less terse, but it was not some attack.  It was a statement intended to inform someone I do genuinely like to talk about things with on this board that he's being way out of line and almost certainly offending some people on this board I know he genuinely does not want to hurt.  It is not the first discussion he and I have had on this topic, nor even close to it. It's all on the board, in relevant threads.

It is, in my mind, no different than when I was similarly corrected in the Alex Trebek thread.  To which my response was something to the effect of "You're right, that was a stupid thing to say."

After that, the thread went where it went, and whatever.  But I intend to, and I hope everyone else on this board intends to, call out those kinds of statements both here and in real life.  

If someone who I don't like says them, I tend to be very caustic.  If someone I do like says them, I tend to try tell them what they're doing is wrong and to try to get some perspective on why.  My intention was the latter.  If it wasn't taken that way, then I failed to communicate my intention.

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1 hour ago, Joe Bryant said:

We don't have an official list of how offensive every possible term can be. Looking at this after it blew up, clearly quite a few people saw the term as offensive. I would say the term is offensive. And the thread was deleted. In a perfect world, the moderators would spend the time needed (and it's a good bit) to go through post by post and edit out the offensive posts. In reality, when a thread gets that many reports and it's that big, the whole thing will be deleted as what happened yesterday. 

From what I could see, this seemed to be a situation of differing on how offensive a term was. A situation like that is often something we'll not suspend a poster for. But it can be a gray area without a lot of clarity. Which is basically everything on this board from a moderation standpoint. 

He made a completely new thread and offered a heartfelt apology. I'm sorry to year you think we have such a low standard for how I operate and "the rules of the board". But pretty much disappointing everyone there is about what I've come to understand is reality. 

Joe, I recognize that language is fluid and not blaming you all, it just kinda surprised me as this isn’t 2008, it’s 2019.  My biggest issue was that he was told and, at the time, not only didn’t apologize but doubled down. I will check to see the new thread and hopefully this can be a positive learning experience for us all.

I apologize for my negativity borne of frustration, and recognize y’all are trying your best.  It hurts when it’s demonstrated that a term is terribly hurtful and they push back, and others come in and literally use that word in “jokes” - hope you can understand my position and I’ll do my best to be more constructive should I continue to post here. 

I do love this community, and I’m hardly innocent of fault myself on this and other issues and will try to do my best to make it a better and more constructive dialogue through action rather than #####ing. 
 

🤝 

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2 hours ago, HellToupee said:

Christ almighty the guy apologized , he made a separate thread for it. 

As I said, I did not know that, and have since seen that thread and very much appreciate @rockaction 's contriteness and sincerity.

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2 hours ago, jon_mx said:

It is still a commonly used word.  I had no idea it was a 'known slur'.  It may be widely 'known' in some circles to be a slur, but it is not universally considered to be a slur.  I would imagine less than half the general population are aware of this.  

Then let's look at this as a learning experience.  I hardly run in only liberal circles (hell, I live in Texas and work in commercial real estate), and I can say with authority that 90% of the people I know would recognize that it is now considered a slur.

However, my experience is hardly the only one on this board, and it's good to understand your and others' perspectives.  While it bothered me that some pushed back when it was demonstrated how harmful and derogatory that term can be, it also brightened my spirit all the more to see that our discussion had an impact, and resulted in a heartfelt apology. 

Most important, it appears that some on this board have learned from this, so as not to offend, hurt, harm, nor disparage those in the Trans community (and as a friend of those in that community, I also consider myself part of that community. ####, we are all one damn community in the end).

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22 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

I'll also say this:

My original post in that thread was, in substance, this:

"That word is a vulgar slur.  Your views on this topic are bigoted and unsupportable in rational discourse.  You should consider looking at that part of your worldview."

It was terse, and I probably could have fleshed it out a lot more and had it be less terse, but it was not some attack.  It was a statement intended to inform someone I do genuinely like to talk about things with on this board that he's being way out of line and almost certainly offending some people on this board I know he genuinely does not want to hurt.  It is not the first discussion he and I have had on this topic, nor even close to it. It's all on the board, in relevant threads.

It is, in my mind, no different than when I was similarly corrected in the Alex Trebek thread.  To which my response was something to the effect of "You're right, that was a stupid thing to say."

After that, the thread went where it went, and whatever.  But I intend to, and I hope everyone else on this board intends to, call out those kinds of statements both here and in real life.  

If someone who I don't like says them, I tend to be very caustic.  If someone I do like says them, I tend to try tell them what they're doing is wrong and to try to get some perspective on why.  My intention was the latter.  If it wasn't taken that way, then I failed to communicate my intention.

I want to let this die, but I am merely writing to affirm what you're saying, noting it, and say that I take your claim about your intent purely at face value in my book; you've certainly earned it. You've talked me down before in an intra-board scrap, and it was much appreciated then. I hope the apology and then subsequent behavior regarding the word in question will suffice.

3 minutes ago, Koya said:

As I said, I did not know that, and have since seen that thread and very much appreciate @rockaction 's contriteness and sincerity.

No sweat, Koya. Your passion is also certainly noted and I thought of both you and Henry as the more passionate members on the board that deserved to hear from my mouth that the use of the word is not a place I'll traverse in again.

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4 hours ago, Koya said:

Joe, I recognize that language is fluid and not blaming you all, it just kinda surprised me as this isn’t 2008, it’s 2019.  My biggest issue was that he was told and, at the time, not only didn’t apologize but doubled down. I will check to see the new thread and hopefully this can be a positive learning experience for us all.

I apologize for my negativity borne of frustration, and recognize y’all are trying your best.  It hurts when it’s demonstrated that a term is terribly hurtful and they push back, and others come in and literally use that word in “jokes” - hope you can understand my position and I’ll do my best to be more constructive should I continue to post here. 

I do love this community, and I’m hardly innocent of fault myself on this and other issues and will try to do my best to make it a better and more constructive dialogue through action rather than #####ing. 
 

🤝

Thanks.  But I bear 100% of blame when it's the "apparently that’s ok by the rules of this board." shot. Always have.

I'm just whining I know but getting super tired of not even getting a benefit of the doubt on anything. The other day I was accused of trolling for asking for someone's opinion and then stuff like this. Just gets tiring. Seems like a ton of heartache that far outweighs the upside. And yes, this is 100% whining from me. 

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19 hours ago, rockaction said:

Looks like the bathroom thread got the axe. That was good, productive discussion about how I was mentally ill, too. 

And don't forget the discussion about how you're a near-sighted voter! ;) 

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33 minutes ago, Joe Bryant said:

Thanks.  But I bear 100% of blame when it's the "apparently that’s ok by the rules of this board." shot. Always have.

I'm just whining I know but getting super tired of not even getting a benefit of the doubt on anything. The other day I was accused of trolling for asking for someone's opinion and then stuff like this. Just gets tiring. Seems like a ton of heartache that far outweighs the upside. And yes, this is 100% whining from me. 

I've been on this board for 15 years now. It's made me a better, more well-rounded person. I imagine it has for others as well. I say this to assure you that there is upside that you do not see. 

 

ETA: I also think that the mods do a really, really good job here. I imagining being a mod is like being a basketball ref. It's a really, really difficult task where inevitably somebody is going to be mad despite your best efforts. But, like the game of basketball where it couldn't exist without refs, this board couldn't exist without mods. 

Edited by Zow
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5 hours ago, Koya said:

Then let's look at this as a learning experience.  I hardly run in only liberal circles (hell, I live in Texas and work in commercial real estate), and I can say with authority that 90% of the people I know would recognize that it is now considered a slur.

However, my experience is hardly the only one on this board, and it's good to understand your and others' perspectives.  While it bothered me that some pushed back when it was demonstrated how harmful and derogatory that term can be, it also brightened my spirit all the more to see that our discussion had an impact, and resulted in a heartfelt apology. 

Most important, it appears that some on this board have learned from this, so as not to offend, hurt, harm, nor disparage those in the Trans community (and as a friend of those in that community, I also consider myself part of that community. ####, we are all one damn community in the end).

If this is a learning experience we need to know what word was used that was offensive.  Bueller?

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2 minutes ago, Don't Noonan said:

If this is a learning experience we need to know what word was used that was offensive.  Bueller?

The plural of the shortened version of "transmission." 

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5 minutes ago, Zow said:

The plural of the shortened version of "transmission." 

Thanks.  That is offensive?  What are you supposed to call them?

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1 hour ago, Joe Bryant said:

And yes, this is 100% whining from me. 

Be excellent and please don’t whine.

:ptts:  
 

 

;) 

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1 minute ago, AAABatteries said:

Be excellent and please don’t whine.

:ptts:  
 

 

;) 

Guilty

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14 minutes ago, Don't Noonan said:

Thanks.  That is offensive?  What are you supposed to call them?

Transgender or Trans

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1 hour ago, Don't Noonan said:

Thanks.  That is offensive?  What are you supposed to call them?

Transsexy!

Edited by tonydead

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1 hour ago, Don't Noonan said:

Thanks.  That is offensive?  What are you supposed to call them?

Caitlyn

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4 hours ago, Joe Bryant said:

Thanks.  But I bear 100% of blame when it's the "apparently that’s ok by the rules of this board." shot. Always have.

I'm just whining I know but getting super tired of not even getting a benefit of the doubt on anything. The other day I was accused of trolling for asking for someone's opinion and then stuff like this. Just gets tiring. Seems like a ton of heartache that far outweighs the upside. And yes, this is 100% whining from me. 

My mama used to tell me, "consider the source son"...I strongly urge you to take that advice around this place too JB....you're doing a fine job :thumbup: 

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2 hours ago, tonydead said:

Transsexy!

You can do better than this.  Sincerely. 

What the hell is wrong with people as to treat entire groups with a such a lack of respect? Again, this after multiple jokes in the now deleted thread after the point had been clearly made that the use of the term in question was derogatory.

Damn. We should freaking do and be better. And don’t call me a crybaby for asking us to respect each other.  That ain’t on me asking for freaking decency. 

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12 minutes ago, Koya said:

You can do better than this.  Sincerely. 

What the hell is wrong with people as to treat entire groups with a such a lack of respect? Again, this after multiple jokes in the now deleted thread after the point had been clearly made that the use of the term in question was derogatory.

Damn. We should freaking do and be better. And don’t call me a crybaby for asking us to respect each other.  That ain’t on me asking for freaking decency. 

What's wrong with people indeed if they take issue with calling a group of people sexy. Loco.  :loco:

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37 minutes ago, Koya said:

You can do better than this.  Sincerely. 

What the hell is wrong with people as to treat entire groups with a such a lack of respect? Again, this after multiple jokes in the now deleted thread after the point had been clearly made that the use of the term in question was derogatory.

Damn. We should freaking do and be better. And don’t call me a crybaby for asking us to respect each other.  That ain’t on me asking for freaking decency. 

You spent years running around here calling groups of people cowards and other stuff.  

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8 hours ago, Ramblin Wreck said:

You spent years running around here calling groups of people cowards and other stuff.  

:goodposting:

 

Definition of :potkettle:

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4 hours ago, GoBirds said:

:goodposting:

 

Definition of :potkettle:

It is a circle which will never stop.  There are people on the left who will rationalize treating groups they disagree with (be it conservatives, Christians, trump supporters, white males) complete disrespect but be mad at those people for being disrespectful to others.  I really don't see where it ends.  To point this out is to whine or be a martyr or a troll or a piece of garbage.  Instead of engaging this garbage and trashing a thread worse than it already was, I decided to report 4 posts instead of diving into the rabbit hole.  I received a warning for wasting the moderators time.  

Edited by jon_mx
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We have a snitch in our midst

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12 hours ago, Ramblin Wreck said:

You spent years running around here calling groups of people cowards and other stuff.  

 

4 hours ago, GoBirds said:

:goodposting:

 

Definition of :potkettle:

 

25 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

It is a circle which will never stop.  There are people on the left who will rationalize treating groups they disagree with (be it conservatives, Christians, trump supporters, white males) complete disrespect but be mad at those people for being disrespectful to others.  I really don't see where it ends.  To point this out is to whine or be a martyr or a troll or a piece of garbage.  Instead of engaging this garbage and trashing a thread worse than it already was, I decided to report 4 posts instead of diving into the rabbit hole.  I received a warning for wasting the moderators time.  

Wow. Yall really don't see the difference between epithets and slurs directed toward people for who they are at root, and calling out someone because of their behavior?  Someone being trans does not warrant disrespect.  Someone who makes jokes using the SAME derogatory term that had been pointed out as such, in my opinion, does not warrant respect.

You really think calling people the n-word, and calling people cowards is the same thing?

That might just say it all right there.

 

Finally, stop with the lies about all this coming from "the left" - it may make you feel better, but it's simply not true. Many of us are moderates, libertarians, and actual Conservatives (with me falling primarily into the first two - haven't voted Dem in a long time, and am not a registered Dem).

 

Finally, much as Jon et al like to pretend that we are all some evil "left," we aren't.  Im not even a registered Dem, nor have I voted Dem for a decade plus.  Nice to see those lies are still around here.

Edited by Koya

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45 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

It is a circle which will never stop.  There are people on the left who will rationalize treating groups they disagree with (be it conservatives, Christians, trump supporters, white males) complete disrespect but be mad at those people for being disrespectful to others.  I really don't see where it ends.  To point this out is to whine or be a martyr or a troll or a piece of garbage.  Instead of engaging this garbage and trashing a thread worse than it already was, I decided to report 4 posts instead of diving into the rabbit hole.  I received a warning for wasting the moderators time.  

Yep, hit the nail on the head. Hard to know where the line is with what’s allowed but they have done better removing some on the left that were completely out of control acting in manners never allowed by “other side “. 

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1 hour ago, Koya said:

 

 

Wow. Yall really don't see the difference between epithets and slurs directed toward people for who they are at root, and calling out someone because of their behavior?  Someone being trans does not warrant disrespect.  Someone who makes jokes using the SAME derogatory term that had been pointed out as such, in my opinion, does not warrant respect.

You really think calling people the n-word, and calling people cowards is the same thing?

That might just say it all right there.

 

Finally, stop with the lies about all this coming from "the left" - it may make you feel better, but it's simply not true. Many of us are moderates, libertarians, and actual Conservatives (with me falling primarily into the first two - haven't voted Dem in a long time, and am not a registered Dem).

 

Finally, much as Jon et al like to pretend that we are all some evil "left," we aren't.  Im not even a registered Dem, nor have I voted Dem for a decade plus.  Nice to see those lies are still around here.

:lmao:

You went from the word tranny to the n-word quite quickly.  That's laughable.   Second, you went on one of your epic rants about treating people with respect.  Does that not apply to EVERYONE?  Or only people you choose to respect?   Don't be a hypocrite.

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10 minutes ago, Ramblin Wreck said:

:lmao:

You went from the word tranny to the n-word quite quickly.  That's laughable.   Second, you went on one of your epic rants about treating people with respect.  Does that not apply to EVERYONE?  Or only people you choose to respect?   Don't be a hypocrite.

The two words are both slurs. That is the whole point. 

you are correct in that we should treat everyone with respect, and I apologize that I’ve not always lived up to that mark. However, while we should act respectfully toward each other, respect is still earned. And while I should treat everyone respectfully, that doesn’t mean I respect them, and it’s hard to respect those who insist on using slurs and epithets... even though you are correct that I should do my best to treat them respectfully.

 


 

 

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32 minutes ago, Koya said:

The two words are both slurs. That is the whole point. 

you are correct in that we should treat everyone with respect, and I apologize that I’ve not always lived up to that mark. However, while we should act respectfully toward each other, respect is still earned. And while I should treat everyone respectfully, that doesn’t mean I respect them, and it’s hard to respect those who insist on using slurs and epithets... even though you are correct that I should do my best to treat them respectfully.

 


 

 

Your problem is that you are hung up on your defined list of slurs, and then you put them all on equal footing.  If people don't agree with your list it isn't an insistence to use slurs, it's a disagreement on what is a slur. Like it or not one is much more acceptable in society than the other, I don't see anyone referring to Tranny as the T-word. 

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3 minutes ago, tonydead said:

Your problem is that you are hung up on your defined list of slurs, and then you put them all on equal footing.  If people don't agree with your list it isn't an insistence to use slurs, it's a disagreement on what is a slur. Like it or not one is much more acceptable in society than the other, I don't see anyone referring to Tranny as the T-word. 

Here you go.

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hang tough guys...

Happy Friday

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1 hour ago, Ramblin Wreck said:

:lmao:

You went from the word tranny to the n-word quite quickly.  That's laughable.   Second, you went on one of your epic rants about treating people with respect.  Does that not apply to EVERYONE?  Or only people you choose to respect?   Don't be a hypocrite.

I don’t like tranny but there are different degrees of slurs. The n word is the high holy of slurs and don’t consider tranny in the same category, but still in my view it is very derogatory but I understand some to feel the same. 

My wife was born in Wales , came here as a baby but still considers welshing a slur to her Welsh heritage 

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I learned from AB that you can still say cracker.

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It is disrespectful to say things like the only way you can support Trump is if you are a racist.  Or Trump voters are dumb.  Or Trump voters just parrot whatever they hear on Fox.  All those are common in this place.  

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1 hour ago, Henry Ford said:

I was talking about in here, or more specifically the thread that got axed for discussing our transsexy friends.  But, thanks for discovering that google with find an article to support just about anything you put in the search bar.

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4 minutes ago, tonydead said:

I was talking about in here, or more specifically the thread that got axed for discussing our transsexy friends.  But, thanks for discovering that google with find an article to support just about anything you put in the search bar.

I posted this article in that thread. And a bunch of quotes from it. 

Edited by Henry Ford

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54 minutes ago, jon_mx said:

It is disrespectful to say things like the only way you can support Trump is if you are a racist.  Or Trump voters are dumb.  Or Trump voters just parrot whatever they hear on Fox.  All those are common in this place.  

It's also disrespectful to call the forum a cesspool.  Or making broad, sweeping disparaging characterizations about liberals.

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11 minutes ago, Juxtatarot said:

It's also disrespectful to call the forum a cesspool.  Or making broad, sweeping disparaging characterizations about liberals.

And calling us Nazis. I’ve been banned for far less. 

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23 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

I posted this article in that thread. And a bunch of quotes from it. 

I went to the search function to prove my point as I was wagering that "Tranny" has been used a lot more in this forum than "T-word" and a couple interesting things happened:

1 - The T-word is already taken apparently.  At one time or another there was a ban on using the slur Troll.  

2 - I found a bunch of references where liberals were using the slur, often as an attack against right wing media or Trump himself.  That's weird.  I didn't find any from the right, although Dalton went on for pages about someone calling Mrs. Obama a Tranny so maybe that post got deleted.  

Example

Horrible

I wonder why these guys weren't held to the same dogpile on standard that Rock faced the other day?

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