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Star Wars Universe (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter joey
- Start date
Insein
Footballguy
TFA made a ton on merchandising but TLJ barely made any and TRoS didn't even produce a lot of merch because of TLJs failure. Most Walmarts and Targets have one panel section of Star Wars stuff crammed in between Power Rangers and Toy Story. They need to find a way to get kids attention again.
joey
Footballguy
Insein
Footballguy
joey
Footballguy
Insein
Footballguy
Doesn't make any sense to not have merch ready at the time of the most hype. Yes I know of the "reason" given that Favreau wanted secrecy on baby Yoda. But that seems like a weak explanation for missing out on hundreds of millions in Q4 of 2019 when they've been getting killed on toy sales. Shareholders won't be happy with that reason.
joey
Footballguy
Insein
Footballguy
Just saying. Shareholders already want answers and then you tell them we held off on making a ton of money because we wanted it to be a surprise for a show we didn't know would be a hit or not.
I mean it doesn't take a business major to see could have made $X million in toy sales in December to strike right as the show finished season 1 vs waiting another 5 months when a new season is still 4-6 months away to start selling then. Banking on people not having short attention spans seems like a losing strategy.
joey
Footballguy
I’m just saying it’s easy to be a critic and bash things, and especially simplify things into a single decision, when these kind of business decisions, in context, are much more complex and nuanced than "that plot was stupid. They should just write better movies."
then go and do it. Create something. Make it great. Sounds like it should be so easy since everyone on the internet knows soooo much about making movies and merchandising and all this simple stuff.
Insein
Footballguy
If I had the connections to get a job in Disney merchandising or Lucasfilms, I would do just that.
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joey
Footballguy
A connection might be closer than you think
but what you need is a great resume and experience.
sorry I’m sensitive about this. Besides being amazingly biased and too close to this particular topic, I’m also an artist and songwriter. Someone who creates stuff and is open to the idea that people will like or not like what I do. But, I also hate those who see something like a Matisse paper cut out and say "that’s so simple. I could do that". Well, then go DO IT and see if you can do something great.
are you I’m the movie business? Have you tried to get in? Or marketing perhaps? If you have these great ideas, or proven plans, let’s hear your track record for creating lterially BILLION dollar revenue generators that people consume.
signed,
Touchy
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Hot Diggity Dog
Footballguy
If you are going to put yourself out there grow a thicker skin. Whining about getting criticism because some one else "hasn't done it " is childish. I own a business in an industry that gets a lot of criticism, most of it quite honestly is valid, certainly on the industry. For a business, any business, to say shut up and consune my product because you couldnt make it is stupid with a capital S.joey said:A connection might be closer than you think
but what you need is a great resume and experience.
sorry I’m sensitive about this. Besides being amazingly biased and too close to this particular topic, I’m also an artist and songwriter. Someone who creates stuff and is open to the idea that people will like or not like what I do. But, I also hate those who see something like a Matisse paper cut out and say "that’s so simple. I could do that". Well, then go DO IT and see if you can do something great.
are you I’m the movie business? Have you tried to get in? Or marketing perhaps? If you have these great ideas, or proven plans, let’s hear your track record for creating lterially BILLION dollar revenue generators that people consume.
signed,
Touchy
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Imo, criticizing something is fine, to a point.
It becomes the height of arrogance and ignorance when people think "I could do better" when they have absolutely no track record or even training in the field at a high level. It is akin to the people who think they could do better than a pro athlete who is struggling but they never advanced past high school in said sport.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Because Disney is the devil?joey said:
joey
Footballguy
Hot Diggity Dog
Footballguy
Yes there is a certain percentage of people who would never be happy and as a artist or a business person you have to let those people go. But as an analogy I can't hang drywall and make it look good. But i can look at drywall and know if it looks good and is done well. If my drywaller does a bad job and keeps telling me its a good job I am not going to hire them again. Same goes with movies and every other product. Taking the criticism and digesting it is the smart thing to do.
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joey
Footballguy
Objective vs Subjective products. I can take criticism, and give it as well. I don’t love everything in the new movies either. But to try to simplify it as if it's easy and obvious how to write a great finale to a 9 movie story arch, or execute a marketing plan on a huge and beloved franchise...i just felt a bit of a reminder that it’s not as simple as "Disney should just...".
As for your anology, can I just go to a drywall guy and say that they should "just" install it for less than their cost and labor? No, of course not. There are more factors that go into it.
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Hot Diggity Dog
Footballguy
And more to the point here for Star Wars, as a entertainment franchise, and especially the Disney version of it since they weren't the original creators, chastising long time fans is it's own form of ignorance and arrogance. In a nutshell they take Luke #######g Skywalker and instead of having him do a laser sword fight I get to see him milk a sea cow and brood. Some of this is so bad it would be laughed off if the Star Wars name wasn't attached to it. I don't have to be a screenwriter to know that this current trilogy has movies completely at odds with each other THEMATICALLY. And at odds with the original movies made by the guy that thought up the whole universe. It is a bad job of storytelling and i dont need to be a storyteller to know it.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
I think you are missing the point. it is fine if you think this way, no one is arguing that point.
The arrogance, imo, comes into play when one thinks they themselves could do so much better while never having written even a high school level screen play.
If you want to think the story sucks and another professional writer could have done better, that makes perfect sense to me.
Hot Diggity Dog
Footballguy
Yes some what on objective vs. subjective products. But if you were in the building trades you would know there is a wide spectrum of what people will call "good". Star Wars is given a huge pass because it is a popcorn movie. If they tried to pass it off as a "serious" movie it would be a joke.
No one said it was going to be an easy job but Disney took it on. Yes no matter what they did there would be criticism, but again they should know that going in. And look they have made lots of money so at least it is partially a success. But also it is blatantly obvious they failed in the planning stages. They did so by not having a story outline or by sticking to it.
Not sure what your point is with the money thing.
joey
Footballguy
Totally agree that there needed to be a true "story team" in charge from the get go, and then hire directors to execute along that vision with some leeway within the boundaries for where things need to be pointed at the end of each episode.
Hot Diggity Dog
Footballguy
You may not be arguing the point but some of the creators seem to be, namely Rian Johnson, and some other defenders of the movies.
Yes, we can agree on the second point. But the question becomes was this a professional job? I would say the acting was, I would say the special effects were. Marketing was. Even the dialogue was good. Story no, not professionally done.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
We are arguing two different points I think.
I also agree (and have mentioned it multiple times on here) that the story across the three movies was poorly conceived.
However it was most certainly professionally done. JJ Abrams and Rian Johnson both have very strong professional resumes, far deeper and more accomplished than any random poster on the internet.
When Tom Brady has a sucky game, that does not mean he is not a professional, it just means he had a bad game. That is how I look at the overall story of the new trilogy. Good professionals had a bad performance. And while we keep mentioning the directors, the blame goes as much to whom ever was responsible for overseeing the three movies to make sure they flowed and did not just retconn each other.
joey
Footballguy
> 85% of the general viewing public beg to differ (rotten tomatoes score). Your opinion and criticism is valid, of course, but you’re in the clear minority.
but we definitely agree on the Special Effects
Hot Diggity Dog
Footballguy
So what is the story with the Last Jedi RT Audience score of 43%? That was part of the story. Read reviews even here on this forum, lots of not strong on story but like it anyway for xyz reason. Also RT doesn't measure people who give up and just don't go to it. The Force Awakens did 2.1 Billion box office. The last Jedi did 1.3 billion and Rise of Skywalker is tracking to similar a number as that. That is 62% less. Yes later films in trilogies do less generally, but 62%? There are a lot of people not going to the second two movies and a lot of people not doing multiple veiwings in theaters. Even the theme parks aren't performing as expected.> 85% of the general viewing public beg to differ (rotten tomatoes score). Your opinion and criticism is valid, of course, but you’re in the clear minority.
but we definitely agree on the Special Effects
And the way critics have turned on the franchise from the Last Jedi to Rise of Skywalker just for the same story and theme inconsistencies I am talking about. Afterall these are professional critics. As professionals I assume you put more weight into their opinion than my opinion, the general public's opinion, or even your own opinion.
joey
Footballguy
I totally agree with the fact that Last Jedi hurt the franchise overall. And the performance of Ep9 is definitely affected by viewers who felt disappointed by Ep8. That’s something Lucasfilm/Disney have to solve for sure with the next projects, and Mandalorian is well on the way to showing that entertaining, popular and good stories can still be told in this universe.
remember that my original comment in this subthread was about the simplification of the "mistake" of not having Baby Yodas available to buy now as if it’s as simple as that. I wanted to put in in the proper, bigger context. For example, does it make a tiny bit of sense to have a marketing campaign that first focuses on the giant Ep9 release around the holidays and then hold back on Mandalorian marketing til next year to try to create a bit of a more year-round presence for Star Wars merchandising? I think it does. And I also think it’s not as simple as internet critics (professional or otherwise) want to make it out to be.
shader
Footballguy
A New Hope made 775 million. ROTJ made 475 million.
TLJ was extremely unpopular. It turned off many fans. I knew a bunch of long time Star Wars fans that told me they were more excited for future projects and the Mandalorian than episode 9. They didn’t think JJ would be able to save it.
Then the critics destroyed it.
Once your opening weekend is low, you aren’t coming back from that to any measurable degree. TLJ, remember, had tons of hype from The wildly successful episode 7, AND amazing critical reviews. So it had much more in its favor. For this movie to beat TLJ would be a testament to how good it is.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I guess I will put my movie snob hat on, and say besides the lack of consistency of trilogy I guess my big disappointment of this project so far is that I guess Star Wars is no different from the rest of the big budget fare noe and people are happiest when it's rehashes of familiar stuff. We have enough reboots/sequels that have come out and more on the horizon with Top Gun, Ghostbusters, etc.. I guess I was hoping for a little more out of these movies is all. If 7 and 8 are what people are liking the best, what's the incentive to do much else.
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I just let my 5 year old watch the original trilogy and he really liked it. They definitely show their age (esp the first one), but I don’t think they are so outdated that they need to be redone to be appreciated by the younger folks.
shader
Footballguy
You’re probably right. My kids roll their eyes at Jar Jar and some of the dialogue, but they still love it. Remakes are the ultimate lack of originality.
Thst being said, there was one story in Star Wars that could have been absolutely epic, and that’s the fall of Anakin into Vader. Lucas did a B- with that, imo. I still enjoy the movies, but I think one day, maybe 30-40 years from now, Disney will decide that the story can be told in a better way. And I hope I get to see it.
shader
Footballguy
I’ve long thought that.
Just title it Vader, pick up with the end of 3, and let him wreck havoc. A great director and the movie would break every Star Wars record in existence.
joey
Footballguy
I starting watching the Clone Wars series and even that does such a better job giving some color to Anakin’s character.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
According to my son, someone was credited for doing Ashoka’s voice in Rise of Skywalker, presumably one of the Jedi voices reaching out to Rey in the “be with me” scene.Ted Lange as your Bartender said:
shader
Footballguy
shader
Footballguy
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Capella
Footballguy
Personally I don’t need to know the ‘before’ of my favorite characters. Hated the idea of it with Vader, don’t really see the need for it here. I don’t need every thing to be addressed.
Psychopav
Help us, Joebi-Wan Brynobi, you're our only ho
Yoda is 900 years old in the OT. If they do anything in the 400 years prior range, he will have already been a jedi master for something like 400 years. I'd be disappointed if he wasn't involved.Capella said:
From Ep I, he clearly had some knowledge of how the Sith operate. I assume it came from personal experience and not library research.
Capella
Footballguy
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Phantom Menace actually isn’t bad — jar jar was the main issue.
