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Classic Album Discussion Thread: The Kinks-Lola Versus Powerman and the Moneygoround, Pt. 1 (1 Viewer)

Kansas- Leftoverture and Point Of Know Return

Leftoverture (1976)

Carry On Wayward Son

The Wall

Whats On My Mind

Miracles Out Of Nowhere

Opus Insert

Questions of My Childhood

Cheyenne Anthem

Magnum Opus

Point of Know Return (1977)

Point of Know Return

Paradox

The Spider

Portrait (He Knew)

Closet Chronicles 

Lightning’s Hand

Dust In the Wind

Sparks of the Tempest

Nobody’s Home

Hopelessly Human

I decided to review these two albums together since they represent the band at its height, and almost seem interchangeable to me.

Highly derivative of British progressive rock, incredibly pretentious at times (I offer here as examples the 5 part “Magnum Opus” and the knocking at the door sound that occurs towards the end of “Nobody’s Home” I nonetheless have always liked this band because of their strong melodies- not so much their lyrics. The two really big hits from these albums, “Carry On Wayward Son” and “Dust In the Wind” truly are 70s classics, although the former may be ruined at this point by competing with “Don’t Stop Believin’” and “We Will Rock You” as the tune most played in the history of high school marching bands. “Portrait (He Knew)” was also at times an AOR staple, and there are other, lesser known gems as well: “The Wall”, “Opus Insert”, “Point Of Know Return”, and my favorite Kansas song, “Miracles Out of Nowhere”. 

On a personal note, these two albums always remind me of my late brother, who as a teenager played them endlessly so that I came to know (and at the time get sick of) every note and lyric. Now I listen fondly.

 
I really dig Kansas. Those two albums are golden. Great playing, vocals, grooves, musicianship is on point. Great stuff.

The Wall may be my all time favorite song from Kansas. I wish it was longer. That's how amazing of a song that one is.

These two albums really show Kansas maturing into a tight, intricate progressive rock band.

 
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Todem said:
I really dig Kansas. Those two albums are golden. Great playing, vocals, grooves, musicianship is on point. Great stuff.

The Wall may be my all time favorite song from Kansas. I wish it was longer. That's how amazing of a song that one is.
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:goodposting:

 
It’s sad that some think being adventurous musically means you’re pretentious. The members of Kansas weren’t pretentious, nor was their music. I guess if all you want are 4-minute songs, an 8-minute song is pretentious. 

That aside, Leftoverture is a masterpiece on every level. I’m still amazed at how good it is.   

Point of Know Return isn’t as great, but still pretty damn good. Closet Chronicles is a major gem. 

 
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Kansas was extremely pretentious, the stuff Jack Black loves to parody. The strings, the ridiculous lyrics, the self-indulgence.  But they were absolutely awesome in their day and one of the bands I regret never seeing. Monolith, which came a year or so after POKR, was one of the biggest let-downs in rock history and they never recovered from it, never got back to where they were during those few glory years. By the mid-late 80s or so, they were playing state fairs and corn-festivals.

 
Ghost Rider said:
It’s sad that some think being adventurous musically means you’re pretentious. The members of Kansas weren’t pretentious, nor was their music. I guess if all you want are 4-minute songs, an 8-minute song is pretentious. 

That aside, Leftoverture is a masterpiece on every level. I’m still amazed at how good it is.   

Point of Know Return isn’t as great, but still pretty damn good. Closet Chronicles is a major gem. 
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I use the word pretentious with love in my heart. But of course they were pretentious, not because of the length of their songs, but because of the “deeper meaning” some of them were supposed to have, along with the orchestration. 

 
timschochet said:
I use the word pretentious with love in my heart. But of course they were pretentious, not because of the length of their songs, but because of the “deeper meaning” some of them were supposed to have, along with the orchestration. 
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I have a friend who's a huge prog rock fan. He'll use "in and around the lake, mountains come out of the sky, and they stand there" as an example of "deep" lyrics. I roll my eyes when he does that. I like YES too, but c'mon...

 
timschochet said:
Carry On Wayward Son

Point of Know Return

Dust In the Wind
Click to expand...
Other than hearing these songs on the radio - which I liked but don't love - I have never listed to Kanas. Not sure why exactly but I guess these songs weren't enough to draw me in.

I don't see myself rectifying that. No interest really.

 
Dr. Octopus said:
Other than hearing these songs on the radio - which I liked but don't love - I have never listed to Kanas. Not sure why exactly but I guess these songs weren't enough to draw me in.

I don't see myself rectifying that. No interest really.
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Same here but I did see them live a few years ago and it was a pretty good show.

 
Leftoverture was one of the first albums I ever bought, strictly because of hearing Carry On on the radio. Still a great tune but I don't  remember ever really falling in love with the album. Some good songs and moments within songs but overall it was a bit too advanced for a kid my age, probably about 13 or 14. I never went back to it, never bought Point of Know Return.

 
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There are still dozens and dozens of AOR classic rock albums to review, but I’m thinking about widening this discussion to classic albums of all genres, so that we’re not strictly limited to this one. Thoughts? 

 
timschochet said:
There are still dozens and dozens of AOR classic rock albums to review, but I’m thinking about widening this discussion to classic albums of all genres, so that we’re not strictly limited to this one. Thoughts? 
Click to expand...
Kansas pushes the boundaries of "classic"

 
I think it’s a good time to have a discussion about albums in general, because it’s a lost art. Thanks to streaming, no one buys music anymore. Which in turn means there’s going to be less and less albums and more and more singles. So owning an album, which most of us grew up with and was a major part of our lives, is a thing of the past. 

My two teenage daughters listen to as much music as I did at their age, though my personal tastes were nowhere near as top 40ish. But they own no albums. I doubt that they’ve ever listened to an album all the way through. With artists like Ed Sheeran and Sara Bareilles (to name two favorites) they simply collect the hits on iTunes and make playlists. They learn about new hits through YouTube and other playlists Apple will send them. There are no albums. 

 
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timschochet said:
I think it’s a good time to have a discussion about albums in general, because it’s a lost art. Thanks to streaming, no one buys music anymore. Which in turn means there’s going to be less and less albums and more and more singles. So owning an album, which most of us grew up with and was a major part of our lives, is a thing of the past. 

My two teenage daughters listen to as much music as I did at their age, though my personal tastes were nowhere near as top 40ish. But they own no albums. I doubt that they’ve ever listened to an album all the way through. With artists like Ed Sheeran and Sara Bareilles (to name two favorites) they simply collect the hits on iTunes and make playlists. They learn about new hits through YouTube and other playlists Apple will send them. There are no albums. 
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I find it very sad, but obviously that's me projecting. Kids today won't miss what they never knew. There are many advantages about the new ways of hearing music - but for me, I prefer holding something tangible and hearing a full album.

I honestly don't quite understand how new artists make money under the new ways - does the streaming service pay a % for each download and/or play - it couldn't be that significant if the streaming services were to make a profit. I know these bands can make money touring but there is a ton of overhead with that and will there be as much demand in the future for live acts when people are just listening to singles?

I suppose I should read up on this since it's such a different world now. I use Spotify and YouTube etc. but I still listen to CDs as well and while I don't purchase them nearly as often every once in a while I still will.

 
timschochet said:
I think it’s a good time to have a discussion about albums in general, because it’s a lost art. Thanks to streaming, no one buys music anymore. Which in turn means there’s going to be less and less albums and more and more singles. So owning an album, which most of us grew up with and was a major part of our lives, is a thing of the past. 

My two teenage daughters listen to as much music as I did at their age, though my personal tastes were nowhere near as top 40ish. But they own no albums. I doubt that they’ve ever listened to an album all the way through. With artists like Ed Sheeran and Sara Bareilles (to name two favorites) they simply collect the hits on iTunes and make playlists. They learn about new hits through YouTube and other playlists Apple will send them. There are no albums. 
Click to expand...
The LP record was the ideal medium for rock albums.  The 40-50 minute length was long enough for grand artistic statements but not too long to require filler.  The requirement for two separate sides allowed artists to organize the songs into distinct acts, each with their own opener, flow and closer.  Gatefold album covers gave 576 square inches of space for art, lyrics, credits, etc.

Most modern albums are structured very differently.  They're almost always front-loaded with the singles occupying tracks 1, 2 or 3.  Cover art has basically been reduced to thumbnail size. 

All things considered though, it's still much better now for music consumers.  The death of the album as an art form is an unfortunate consequence.

 
Eephus said:
The LP record was the ideal medium for rock albums.  The 40-50 minute length was long enough for grand artistic statements but not too long to require filler.  The requirement for two separate sides allowed artists to organize the songs into distinct acts, each with their own opener, flow and closer.  Gatefold album covers gave 576 square inches of space for art, lyrics, credits, etc.

Most modern albums are structured very differently.  They're almost always front-loaded with the singles occupying tracks 1, 2 or 3.  Cover art has basically been reduced to thumbnail size. 

All things considered though, it's still much better now for music consumers.  The death of the album as an art form is an unfortunate consequence.
Click to expand...
I guess I just don't get the whole digital thing.  I want to own my albums books and movies.  What I mean is I want to be able to pick them up and hold them in my hands look at them.  Not have them out there in cyber space somewhere.

 
timschochet said:
There are still dozens and dozens of AOR classic rock albums to review, but I’m thinking about widening this discussion to classic albums of all genres, so that we’re not strictly limited to this one. Thoughts? 
Click to expand...
I just hope to see some discussion on music by bands like Cream,Mountain,ELP,Allman Brothers.  I mean those are great bands that influenced  a lot of the music today.  Plus some bands that maybe are not considered great but I rocked to like Rare Earth, Climax Blues Band, Spooky Tooth.

 
rustycolts said:
I just hope to see some discussion on music by bands like Cream,Mountain,ELP,Allman Brothers.  I mean those are great bands that influenced  a lot of the music today.  Plus some bands that maybe are not considered great but I rocked to like Rare Earth, Climax Blues Band, Spooky Tooth.
Click to expand...
We will get to many of those. I just wanted to expand it a little. But I won’t if people object. 

 
timschochet said:
We will get to many of those. I just wanted to expand it a little. But I won’t if people object. 
Click to expand...
Today I found a message floating
In the sea from you to me
It said that when you could see it
You cried with fear, the Point was near
Was it you that said
How long, how long
To the Point of Know Return?

 
Eephus said:
Today I found a message floating
In the sea from you to me
It said that when you could see it
You cried with fear, the Point was near
Was it you that said
How long, how long
To the Point of Know Return?
Click to expand...
See now, if it was the point of NO return I’d be nervous. But since it’s the point of KNOW Return, I’m not worried. 

 
Eephus said:
The LP record was the ideal medium for rock albums.  The 40-50 minute length was long enough for grand artistic statements but not too long to require filler.  The requirement for two separate sides allowed artists to organize the songs into distinct acts, each with their own opener, flow and closer.  Gatefold album covers gave 576 square inches of space for art, lyrics, credits, etc.

Most modern albums are structured very differently.  They're almost always front-loaded with the singles occupying tracks 1, 2 or 3.  Cover art has basically been reduced to thumbnail size. 

All things considered though, it's still much better now for music consumers.  The death of the album as an art form is an unfortunate consequence.
Click to expand...
Apart from the art form, there's also the unfortunate consequence that our kids will never know the beauty of the double live record.

 
CletiusMaximus said:
Apart from the art form, there's also the unfortunate consequence that our kids will never know the beauty of the double live record.
Click to expand...
True but I think they'd probably opt for YouTube videos going up within hours of almost every concert anywhere in the world.

 
Kansas kicks! 

For me the debut album Masque was the best with "Icarus (Born on Wings of Steel)" my fav song. There was not much rock violin out other than CDB and Jean Luc Ponty, Kansas had a unique sound.

I've seen 'em live many times over the years with the first time in '77 with Styx in Lakeland, FL. Always a good show.

 
Love Kansas, and have seen them many times-  they put on a great show.  These 2 albums are among the best back-to-back releases in rock.

 
Eephus said:
Today I found a message floating
In the sea from you to me
It said that when you could see it
You cried with fear, the Point was near
Was it you that said
How long, how long
To the Point of Know Return?
Click to expand...
I look to the sea reflections in the waves spark my memory
Some happy some sad
I think of childhood friends and the dreams we had
We live happily forever so the story goes
But somehow we missed out on that pot of gold
But we'll try best that we can to carry on

 
I can't fathom feeling sorry for kids today. They live in the golden age of music. Everything at there disposal and on demand. I had to work to get few recordings off KLOS and buy an album a month for about $10, which is equivalent to about $30 today. So the $10 services that give these kids EVERYTHING are like us spending $4 bucks a month or so. I could go on, but we were screwed compared to this... what a time to be alive.

 
timschochet said:
I use the word pretentious with love in my heart. But of course they were pretentious, not because of the length of their songs, but because of the “deeper meaning” some of them were supposed to have, along with the orchestration. 
Click to expand...
Deeper meaning is pretentious?  Er, okay.  

Also, when people say music and/or a musician is pretentious, it is almost always meant to be a slight. 

CletiusMaximus said:
Kansas was extremely pretentious, the stuff Jack Black loves to parody. The strings, the ridiculous lyrics, the self-indulgence.  But they were absolutely awesome in their day and one of the bands I regret never seeing. Monolith, which came a year or so after POKR, was one of the biggest let-downs in rock history and they never recovered from it, never got back to where they were during those few glory years. By the mid-late 80s or so, they were playing state fairs and corn-festivals.
Click to expand...
Kansas' prime was short, but what a prime it was.  It didn't help that Steve Walsh destroyed his voice by smoking cigarettes.  When you listen to 1995's Freaks of Nature, you almost can't believe it is the same guy.  That is a good record, and he still gives a good performance, but what he did to his own voice is a travesty.  I still say that in his prime, he is one of the best rock singers ever. 

 
zamboni said:
Best album covers seems thread-worthy if it hasn’t been done already.
Click to expand...
There were a lot of nice ones, always wanted a Hollywood squares type wall display showing off the 9 or 16 best in my collection.

 
Good morning. As mentioned yesterday, I have decided to expand the discussion to a review of classic albums of the past, not limited to AOR and classic rock: 

Prince & The Revolution- Purple Rain (1984) 

Side One

Let’s Go Crazy

Take Me With U

The Beautiful Ones

Computer Blue

Darling Nikki

Side Two

When Doves Cry

I Would Die For U

Baby I’m a Star

Purple Rain

This is an extraordinary album which changed my appreciation of pop music. Prior to hearing this I generally ignored top 40, preferring either punk, certain New Wave bands, or AOR. I was stunned and blown away by the sheer brilliance here, the complexities of the melodies, the brazen sexuality in s song like “Darling Nikki”, etc. it was like being sent to another universe. Favorite song: “Take Me With U”. 

 
Purple Rain is one of those albums that I didn't fully appreciate until many years later. When it and the movie came out, so much of it was all over the radio and I got tired of it - perhaps with the exception of the majestic title cut. While Prince finally broke through with 1999, this album showed the world his immense well-rounded talent. I would put this on the relatively short list of the MTV-dominated '80s albums that will truly stand the test of time.

 
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Chaos Commish said:
I can't fathom feeling sorry for kids today. They live in the golden age of music. Everything at there disposal and on demand. I had to work to get few recordings off KLOS and buy an album a month for about $10, which is equivalent to about $30 today. So the $10 services that give these kids EVERYTHING are like us spending $4 bucks a month or so. I could go on, but we were screwed compared to this... what a time to be alive.
Click to expand...
Not only that, but usually the folks are signing up for a 'family plan' for a couple bucks more, and the teen doesn't have to pay anything!

 
This is probably sacrilege for a Minnesotan, but I never enjoyed Prince. I find him extremely overrated and don't get the worship. 

I can say my sister, who graduated in'84 so this was in her wheelhouse, loved this album and movie.  The classic poster of Prince with his purple motorcycle replaced the Scott Baio poster in her bedroom.

 
Big fan of Prince at least up until he changed his name to a symbol then his stuff was much more hit or miss.

For my wedding used Let's go Crazy as the entrance music for the reception and Purple Rain was our first dance.

 
worrierking said:
I might need Wikkidpissah to teach me the right way to flame something I don't like, which is Kansas.  
Click to expand...
:lol:  One needs a lot of words that kinda sound like what they mean, like insipid and uproarious, and as many puns - inflagrante delousy and such - and iconic images as possible. I did not post on Kansas because i neither like or hate them, but let's see what i can manage:

The reason Americans have no business around prog is that they have no imbedded traditions of human origin as sources of high imagery. England has Arthur, Middle Earth, Holy Grails and Crusades and sacred quests for New Jerusalems. We got refugee Puritans with terrible senses of direction and planting skills, gunfights & ***** killing and walking around planting apple seeds all over the place. Kansas has no Merlin or Gandalf, so it honors its Plains heritage by recalling the Dust Bowl. I'm like, "Dust in the wind? So what?! I got sand in my shorts - you gonna sing about that next?!" The boys get themselves all worked up like Styx on crack and my only reaction is "doods, you're wasting perfectly good seed".

 
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timschochet said:
Good morning. As mentioned yesterday, I have decided to expand the discussion to a review of classic albums of the past, not limited to AOR and classic rock: 

Prince & The Revolution- Purple Rain (1984) 

Side One

Let’s Go Crazy

Take Me With U

The Beautiful Ones

Computer Blue

Darling Nikki

Side Two

When Doves Cry

I Would Die For U

Baby I’m a Star

Purple Rain

This is an extraordinary album which changed my appreciation of pop music. Prior to hearing this I generally ignored top 40, preferring either punk, certain New Wave bands, or AOR. I was stunned and blown away by the sheer brilliance here, the complexities of the melodies, the brazen sexuality in s song like “Darling Nikki”, etc. it was like being sent to another universe. Favorite song: “Take Me With U”. 
Click to expand...
The Purple Flash, man. Next to Beatles on Ed Sullivan and Jim Morrison tearing apart the stage set in my very first rock concert, my greatest music memory is the Purple Flash that began the 1999 video. I knew who that dirty little man was who telling us to party til we die, but it didnt matter, I saw right there that the world was suddenly different and always was gonna be different from there on out. The Purple Flash integrated rock, soul, pop, funk jazz, changed the beats, the modes by which we operated. That moment actually blessed music in a way it never had been.

Thing is, 1999 was ramblin' AF. It showed the way but wasnt a piece in and of itself. So he made this movie, with as much cinematic plot & value as Beach Blanket Bingo but with the songs tighter-than-tight and performed in the context of that stupid plot (i imagine we'd have had the same prob w Mozart if he had to write his own lyrics & librettos) to make one rise to ecstasy, rage in the heart, die with the damage and rise again triumphant with hope. And we were delivered.

 
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