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timschochet

Climate Change thread: UN Report: we need to take action

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Some voters: a 16 year old is adult enough to date an adult, Roy Moore can be a Senator. 

Some voters: a 16 year old trying to tell me about climate change is a joke. Go back to class.

Willing to bet the Venn diagram has a touch of overlap. 

Edited by Henry Ford
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Her speech was great but it also depresses me because we’re not going to do anything close to what she is demanding. We’re not capable of it. 

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Just now, timschochet said:

Her speech was great but it also depresses me because we’re not going to do anything close to what she is demanding. We’re not capable of it. 

Similar to the Parkland kids.  

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1 minute ago, sho nuff said:

Similar to the Parkland kids.  

By comparison, the Parkland kids have dreams that are much more achievable. 

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32 minutes ago, ShamrockPride said:

You're right. What awful human beings, to want everyone to have the ability to walk into a medical facility and get the care they need to live as healthy and pain free as possible. Pure evil, I say.

Now you are trying to move the goalposts. Duff man pointed out that people care a lot more about the greater good when they have little to no responsibilities and then they start to care more about their own personal lot in life as those responsibilities grow.

You pointed out that old people don't favor medicare for all and young people do in an effort to refute him. That is an argument in favor of his position, not against it. Old people already have medicare. Young people dont. 

 

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12 minutes ago, timschochet said:

By comparison, the Parkland kids have dreams that are much more achievable. 

But going just as ignored by people in power.

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29 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

Some voters: a 16 year old is adult enough to date an adult, Roy Moore can be a Senator. 

Some voters: a 16 year old trying to tell me about climate change is a joke. Go back to class.

Willing to be the Venn diagram has a touch of overlap. 

How old is 16 really?

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17 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

Now you are trying to move the goalposts. Duff man pointed out that people care a lot more about the greater good when they have little to no responsibilities and then they start to care more about their own personal lot in life as those responsibilities grow.

You pointed out that old people don't favor medicare for all and young people do in an effort to refute him. That is an argument in favor of his position, not against it. Old people already have medicare. Young people dont. 

 

This is true for some people and the opposite of what happens to some people. 

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Do you think children (in general) or adults (in general) are more self-centered? I would say young people are significantly more focused on their own personal happiness and as they mature they begin to see the needs of others as more important than those needs were when they were young. 

I don’t know many developmental psychology professionals who would dispute that. 

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There’s a massive body of research that shows that adults are significantly more empathetic than children.  Now, when it starts to make sense of course the newness of it can lead to some overzealousness, but on average a 40 year old is light years beyond a 10 year old (or a 12 year old or a 16 year old) on the empathy scale.

Edited by Henry Ford

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38 minutes ago, timschochet said:

President Trump trolls Greta Thunberg: 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/sep/24/she-seems-very-happy-trump-appears-to-mock-greta-thunbergs-emotional-speech

”She seems like a very happy young girl, looking forward to a great future. So nice to see!” 

It is, in my opinion, true that the President both reflects and to some extent directs the values of the nation. 

Our nation doesn’t particularly value teenage girls. Of that, I am certain and have been for some time.  

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10 hours ago, Joe Bryant said:
11 hours ago, The Commish said:

You probably do Joe...this is systemic and depending on where you're at in the system you're going to see different things.  Click on the link above that takes you to a few minutes of her remarks, then scroll through twitter responses and tell me you don't see the same thing MK sees.  

Oh for sure. I've no interest in twitter comments to political topics. It's a toxic environment that feels beyond help.

I jumped in to comment just on the how adults treat young people. I've been in that phase of life for the last few years with my four kids ages 18-25 and I was encouraged to see what felt like a healthy attitude of adults towards young people. But for sure, I realize my anecdotal experience may not be the norm. 

"It takes a village"...that includes those you surround yourself with, no question.  Unfortunately, we have to start even earlier in life these days because it seems that "grown ups" have become keyboard cowboys and don't really care how old people are when they lash out as they are against this girl.  Even this thread is dismissive of her and saying some pretty obnoxious things about her all because they disagree politically with her?  Truth is, none of the comments made in this thread would ever be spoken directly to the girl face to face.  This is the world we have to prepare our kids for and it's tough.

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7 hours ago, Henry Ford said:

Do you think children (in general) or adults (in general) are more self-centered? I would say young people are significantly more focused on their own personal happiness and as they mature they begin to see the needs of others as more important than those needs were when they were young. 

I don’t know many developmental psychology professionals who would dispute that. 

They are also far more insulated from consequences and responsibilities. So sure, ask a toddler if they want an ice cream cone or to recycle and they want the ice cream cone.

But most social welfare questions dont come with a consequence to kids that they can relate to or would consider. 

 

 

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19 minutes ago, parasaurolophus said:

They are also far more insulated from consequences and responsibilities. So sure, ask a toddler if they want an ice cream cone or to recycle and they want the ice cream cone.

But most social welfare questions dont come with a consequence to kids that they can relate to or would consider. 

 

 

I’d venture to say the same about adults.  Which is why we’re in this position. 

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5 hours ago, Henry Ford said:

It is, in my opinion, true that the President both reflects and to some extent directs the values of the nation. 

Our nation doesn’t particularly value teenage girls. Of that, I am certain and have been for some time.  

And yet they have more control of our culture than any other group IMO. 

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The right wing reaction to Greta Thunberg’s speech, from the President on down, has been pretty disgusting. 

That being said, a few liberals I know personally complained that her speech was too aggressive, confrontational and negative. This reaction kind of fascinated me. I think we are conditioned to expect teenagers, especially girls, to offer heartwarming “Can’t we all love each other?” emotional appeals. We don’t expect them to offer angry threats and say things like “we will never forgive you.” She actually touched on this early in her speech when she commented that we wanted her to make us feel better, rather than the other way around. 

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1 hour ago, timschochet said:

And yet they have more control of our culture than any other group IMO. 

Well, I look forward to hearing that theory. 

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12 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

Well, I look forward to hearing that theory. 

Less of a theory than an observation that comes from having two teenage daughters. Go to any mall in this country and it’s catered to their needs more than any other group. They control what clothing is popular. They determine what music makes the top 40. They attend more movies than their male counterparts and decide which ones are hits. They watch more Netflix, Hulu, Prime than anyone else and decide which shows will survive and which won’t. Because parents like myself give them money to spend and because they have much more free time than those of us required to work, they are essentially a permanent leisure class in our society- teenage boys are too but they don’t spend nearly as much money as girls do, nor make as many cultural decisions- and I haven’t even touched on the cosmetics industry. 

ETA- or social networking. Or iPhones. 

Edited by timschochet

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49 minutes ago, timschochet said:

The right wing reaction to Greta Thunberg’s speech, from the President on down, has been pretty disgusting. 

That being said, a few liberals I know personally complained that her speech was too aggressive, confrontational and negative. This reaction kind of fascinated me. I think we are conditioned to expect teenagers, especially girls, to offer heartwarming “Can’t we all love each other?” emotional appeals. We don’t expect them to offer angry threats and say things like “we will never forgive you.” She actually touched on this early in her speech when she commented that we wanted her to make us feel better, rather than the other way around. 

They can pound sand too.  It was authentic, genuine and above all else accurate.  I don't care if they like it or not.  

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Some scientist was on POTUS radio this morning talking about this and said while the USA has been cutting carbon emissions China and India are still are increasing emissions at an even faster pace.  Said does not matter what the USA does if China-India and whoever is not cutting as well. 

A one step forward two step back situation.

Edited by Da Guru

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8 minutes ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

China and India are developing countries.  

Does that matter? According to Greta, we are looking at a 50% risk of setting off irreversible chain reactions beyond human control, we are failing her generation, and they will never forgive us.

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1 minute ago, Black Box said:

Does that matter? According to Greta, we are looking at a 50% risk of setting off irreversible chain reactions beyond human control, we are failing her generation, and they will never forgive us.

Yes it matters. 

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10 hours ago, Henry Ford said:

Do you think children (in general) or adults (in general) are more self-centered? I would say young people are significantly more focused on their own personal happiness and as they mature they begin to see the needs of others as more important than those needs were when they were young. 

I don’t know many developmental psychology professionals who would dispute that. 

I feel the same way you do and still don’t think this is in opposition to my assertion. 

As people age and responsibilities grow, in general they are less willing to offer personal sacrifice for a cause like global warming.

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Shamelessly stolen from twitter:

 

"I can’t imagine anything more embarrassing than being an adult in a suit melting down because a child said science is real but here we are"

 

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19 minutes ago, Da Guru said:

Some scientist was on POTUS radio this morning talking about this and said while the USA has been cutting carbon emissions China and India are still are increasing emissions at an even faster pace.  Said does not matter what the USA does if China-India and whoever is not cutting as well. 

A one step forward two step back situation.

In my lifetime - until recently - the US has been a world Leader - not a world follower.

 

Its time we regain that mantle and show some leadership.

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22 minutes ago, Da Guru said:

Some scientist was on POTUS radio this morning talking about this and said while the USA has been cutting carbon emissions China and India are still are increasing emissions at an even faster pace.  Said does not matter what the USA does if China-India and whoever is not cutting as well. 

A one step forward two step back situation.

It's hard for us to get China or India to do anything if we don't go first.

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15 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

In my lifetime - until recently - the US has been a world Leader - not a world follower.

 

Its time we regain that mantle and show some leadership.

I agree, and according to the scientist the USA has been cutting emissions.   But China is way up will do whatever is good for China. USA can lead some countries but China is not one of them.

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1 minute ago, Da Guru said:

I agree, and according to the scientist the USA has been cutting emissions.   But China is way up will do whatever is good for China. USA can lead some countries but China is not one of them.

I would not say that.

I would say the US can't dictate to China - but good leaders don't dictate.  Good leaders find a way to get the desired result.  

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""I am from Sweden, a small country. And there, it is the same argument. 'Why should we do anything, just look at the U.S.,' they say. So, just so you know, that is being used against you as well." - Greta Thunberg

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4 minutes ago, Da Guru said:

I agree, and according to the scientist the USA has been cutting emissions.   But China is way up will do whatever is good for China. USA can lead some countries but China is not one of them.

Isn’t Trump working to undo any policy the government has in place to move forward in this area because he thinks this is made up by the Chinese?

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You guys are delusional at times and comical at others

"Oh we will LEAD China"    A good leader will get them to follow us!!!!. It is this kind of absolutely ridiculous thinking that keeps progress from being made.  Stop living in dream land.  Start focusing on how we adapt to the new climate....That's how we will persevere.

God you guys sometimes.....No wonder you can let a little 16 yr old girl lecture you like you are children yourselves.  Look at you.

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2 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

I would not say that.

I would say the US can't dictate to China - but good leaders don't dictate.  Good leaders find a way to get the desired result.  

Ok..I am just repeating what a scientist said.   USA trending down, China-India trending  up.  Having been to China for work a few times I am pretty sure most of the general population have zero thoughts on climate change.

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1 minute ago, The General said:

Isn’t Trump working to undo any policy the government has in place to move forward in this area because he thinks this is made up by the Chinese?

Don`t know??  Trump was not mentioned by the person talking.

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26 minutes ago, The Duff Man said:

I feel the same way you do and still don’t think this is in opposition to my assertion. 

As people age and responsibilities grow, in general they are less willing to offer personal sacrifice for a cause like global warming.

I think it's possible that's more about the little conveniences that make life bearable, and getting used to them, and not being willing to disrupt them.  That the more pressure, difficulty, and responsibility there is on my shoulders, the more I want to say "Oh, to hell with it, I'm having a burger and then I'm driving 150 miles to a beach somewhere at 90 mph and #### the pollution."

But I don't think most kids are more willing to sacrifice.  They may not have the same skin in the game on certain sacrifices as adults, so some things aren't a sacrifice for them.  What things do you think kids are willing to sacrifice that adults aren't?

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On 9/20/2019 at 9:45 AM, timschochet said:

FWIW, this seemed to have no profile here whatsoever. While Louisiana is a red state, New Orleans is very blue and I passed in front of what's probably the most liberal high school in New Orleans (an arts high school, like in Fame) while this climate strike was going on. Even in front of that school, there was only a group of five or six. The signs were small and illegible from the road.

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8 hours ago, timschochet said:

President Trump trolls Greta Thunberg: 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/sep/24/she-seems-very-happy-trump-appears-to-mock-greta-thunbergs-emotional-speech

”She seems like a very happy young girl, looking forward to a great future. So nice to see!” 

Trump just had the nerve to say "every child is a sacred gift from God".   

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13 minutes ago, Da Guru said:

Ok..I am just repeating what a scientist said.   USA trending down, China-India trending  up.  Having been to China for work a few times I am pretty sure most of the general population have zero thoughts on climate change.

Thats cause we aren't leading them enough----or so we are being told

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10 minutes ago, Doug B said:

FWIW, this seemed to have no profile here whatsoever. While Louisiana is a red state, New Orleans is very blue and I passed in front of what's probably the most liberal high school in New Orleans (an arts high school, like in Fame) while this climate strike was going on. Even in front of that school, there was only a group of five or six. The signs were small and illegible from the road.

It's being held September 27 in New Orleans.  Some schools had full days of parent-teacher conferences led by students, some were closed, but most importantly the Archdiocese had designated September 20 as a seasonal day of prayer.

https://www.facebook.com/events/st-louis-cathedral-615-pere-antoine-alley-new-orleans-la-70116/us-climate-strike-new-orleans-jackson-square-jubilee/735781016834968/

Edited by Henry Ford

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15 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

You guys are delusional at times and comical at others

"Oh we will LEAD China"    A good leader will get them to follow us!!!!. It is this kind of absolutely ridiculous thinking that keeps progress from being made.  Stop living in dream land.  Start focusing on how we adapt to the new climate....That's how we will persevere.

God you guys sometimes.....No wonder you can let a little 16 yr old girl lecture you like you are children yourselves.  Look at you.

Her speech was directed at you, not us.

We already believe in science.

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1 minute ago, supermike80 said:

Thats cause we aren't leading them enough----or so we are being told

If only there were some group of countries that could economically pressure China to enter into climate agreements.  Such a pipe dream, of course, who could imagine such a partnership crossing the Pacific Ocean?

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Just now, Henry Ford said:

If only there were some group of countries that could economically pressure China to enter into climate agreements.  Such a pipe dream, of course, who could imagine such a partnership crossing the Pacific Ocean?

We can't economically pressure China into a damn thing...You do read the news right?  Or do you just get your news from 16 yr old girls?

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So this is where I come for all my HOT TAKES!!!!!  these days?  I am continually caught off guard at how lacking in self awareness some people are.

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1 minute ago, supermike80 said:

We can't economically pressure China into a damn thing...You do read the news right?  Or do you just get your news from 16 yr old girls?

Aren’t we in a tariff war to do just that?

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2 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

We can't economically pressure China into a damn thing...You do read the news right?  Or do you just get your news from 16 yr old girls?

who is "we"?

ETA:  Actually....better to ask this way....is your "we" the same thing as HF's "some group of countries that could economically pressure China"?

Edited by The Commish
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4 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

We can't economically pressure China into a damn thing...You do read the news right?  Or do you just get your news from 16 yr old girls?

I would definitely get my news from that 16 year old girl over you, if that's what you're asking.

You keep making fun of her age, yet she's the one who is informed between the two of you.

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