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Don Quixote

Jamal Khashoggi - Disappearance/Possible Murder

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3 minutes ago, E Street Brat said:

Or dropping off a few pallets of cash. 

It's a coin flip, really 

Why, do we still owe them for a 40-year-old trade deal we backed out of?

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7 minutes ago, E Street Brat said:

Or dropping off a few pallets of cash. 

It's a coin flip, really 

It's customary that when goods are bought and not delivered that a refund is given.  I can understand why Trump was dismayed.  

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10 minutes ago, Misfit said:

It's customary that when goods are bought and not delivered that a refund is given.  I can understand why Trump was dismayed.  

just ignore, please

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22 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

Why, do we still owe them for a 40-year-old trade deal we backed out of?

 

16 minutes ago, Misfit said:

It's customary that when goods are bought and not delivered that a refund is given.  I can understand why Trump was dismayed.  

Just pointing out the hyperbole, that's all. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, The Dude said:

If you are a Trump supporter, does no action concern you considering his business conflicts?

:lmao:

 

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3 hours ago, jonessed said:

I think they just got lucky.

Care to unpack this one?

Lucky how?

Lucky that they happened to send over a 15-member hit squad at the same day Khashoggi was scheduled to be in Turkey to pick up documents from the Saudi embassy?  That's some really good luck...unless you are Khashoggi, in which case its incredibly bad luck.

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3 hours ago, Captain Cranks said:

Lindsey Graham says there will be hell to pay if he was murdered

And by that he means show a lot of concern and then do nothing.  

So angry about this guy’s blatant hypocrisy.  His argument for “hell to pay” is that Saudi Arabia may have, “Violated international norms.”  What about domestic norms, you #######!  And watch, this guy will fold like a flimsy deck chair.  

Edited by Mr. Ham

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Don Jr. promoted a smear tying Jamal Khashoggi to Osama bin Laden, according to The Daily Beast, retweeting a series of tweets meant to imply that Khashoggi supported Islamic terrorism.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-jr-boosts-smear-tying-missing-journalist-jamal-khashoggi-to-islamic-terrorism/?via=twitter_page

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7 minutes ago, shader said:

Conspiracy nuts on both sides going nuts with this one 

So what, this is fake news? It would appear that there was, in fact, a conspiracy. And both sides like blue and red? I don’t see how politics have anything to do with this, other than the president and his inner circle (kush) seem to be buddies with Muhammad bin Salman. 

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6 hours ago, The Dude said:

SO what has been the standard response to this type of action?

If you are a Trump supporter, does no action concern you considering his business conflicts?

The standard action from the US towards the Saudis for quite some time has been to look the other way.  I don't really blame any past administration because what option with them is a good one?  They buy our arms, in some cases help us out, but also let's be honest, the monarchy is keeping a lid on another powder keg.  You only need look at where all the 9/11 hijackers came from.  That's a very rough neighborhood and if we took any meaningful action against the Saudis, we drive them either towards someone like Russia or China or at worst we destabilize a regime that would undoubtedly be replaced by something much much worse.  I'm not defending them, just stating why we are in a box when it comes to Saudi Arabia.  Any action we take is likely to boomerang on us.

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Man.. if the torture and murder is true and the footage is real... and somehow it gets released then we could see a worsening of relationships in the ME (as if it could get worse), then Russia wil become interested because they always are, which may drag the other powers in. I hope this doesn't become a geopolitical catastrophe.

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58 minutes ago, Shula-holic said:

The standard action from the US towards the Saudis for quite some time has been to look the other way.  I don't really blame any past administration because what option with them is a good one?  They buy our arms, in some cases help us out, but also let's be honest, the monarchy is keeping a lid on another powder keg.  You only need look at where all the 9/11 hijackers came from.  That's a very rough neighborhood and if we took any meaningful action against the Saudis, we drive them either towards someone like Russia or China or at worst we destabilize a regime that would undoubtedly be replaced by something much much worse.  I'm not defending them, just stating why we are in a box when it comes to Saudi Arabia.  Any action we take is likely to boomerang on us.

This is so true. Seriously what the play? If we cancel the arms deal who get hurt? American companies and their workers,  If we place sanctions  who gets hurt?  Not the Royal Family.  it will be poor muslim families.  What did we learn in Iraq? Are you guys ready for another 10/20 year occupation and insurgency? 

This is North Korea, only the citizens are the nuclear weapons. 

 

 

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Nothing will be done. Saudis are Trump’s customers. Another reason you don’t hire an international condo salesman to be president.

Edited by ericttspikes
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4 hours ago, ericttspikes said:

Nothing will be done. Saudis are customers. Another reason you don’t hire an international condo salesman to be president.

Because the Bushes, Clintons, and Obamas never took a dime from Saudi Arabia to look the other way. 

I swear some of you must have just woken up from a coma on 11/9/2016 based on your posts here. 

I suppose if we can only elect a socialist as POTUS then we will finally stand up to them, right?

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9 minutes ago, NFL2DF said:

Because the Bushes, Clintons, and Obamas never took a dime from Saudi Arabia to look the other way. 

I swear some of you must have just woken up from a coma on 11/9/2016 based on your posts here. 

I suppose if we can only elect a socialist as POTUS then we will finally stand up to them, right?

Obama lined his pockets with sweet Saudi $$$. Sold 10 units to Khalid bin Al-Saud in one day. 

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7 hours ago, Dedfin said:

Man.. if the torture and murder is true and the footage is real... and somehow it gets released then we could see a worsening of relationships in the ME (as if it could get worse), then Russia wil become interested because they always are, which may drag the other powers in. I hope this doesn't become a geopolitical catastrophe.

Don’t see it happening.  It should happen.  But Trump is our President.  Any action will be purely for show.  Another norm that will be changed is that you don’t murder Western journalists blatantly and expect punitive repercussions.  Add it to the pile of things that have eroded in the past 2 years.

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4 hours ago, Mr. Ham said:

Don’t see it happening.  It should happen.  But Trump is our President.  Any action will be purely for show.  Another norm that will be changed is that you don’t murder Western journalists blatantly and expect punitive repercussions.  Add it to the pile of things that have eroded in the past 2 years.

K. So what exactly would your ideal president do here? Specifically.

Edited by ShamrockPride

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4 minutes ago, ShamrockPride said:

K. So what exactly would your ideal president do here? Specifically.

Cancel the arms deal.  The leader of that state is caught red handed in a premeditated brutal murder and dismemberment of a journalist that wrote for Wapo!  Sorry if it leads to a hit to defense industry.  It’s the right thing to do, and we used to care about that.  

Edited by Mr. Ham
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21 hours ago, Epic Problem said:

I know that when I'm taking out a 59 year old journalist, I send in 15 of my heaviest hitters. 

 

What I don't understand is why would Saudi Arabia do this in their own consulate? If their heaviest hitters are any good, wouldn't there be countless opportunities to do this elsewhere and not point such an obvious finger at themselves? Or aren't they that smart after all? Or are they that arrogant?

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6 minutes ago, KingPrawn said:

What I don't understand is why would Saudi Arabia do this in their own consulate? If their heaviest hitters are any good, wouldn't there be countless opportunities to do this elsewhere and not point such an obvious finger at themselves? Or aren't they that smart after all? Or are they that arrogant?

Because you can limit the investigation inside the consulate.  You can control who's there and who comes in later.

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1 minute ago, Dinsy Ejotuz said:

Because you can limit the investigation inside the consulate.  You can control who's there and who comes in later.

Makes sense. But wouldn't it be easy enough to stage a car accident or knock the guy off in a hotel? Didn't they have their country's leading forensic expert in on the job. You would think he'd be good at covering up that sort of thing. Or am I giving them too much credit?

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2 minutes ago, KingPrawn said:

Makes sense. But wouldn't it be easy enough to stage a car accident or knock the guy off in a hotel? Didn't they have their country's leading forensic expert in on the job. You would think he'd be good at covering up that sort of thing. Or am I giving them too much credit?

I'm sure they weren't planning on Turkish Intelligence having audio and/or video of the killing.

Edited by Dinsy Ejotuz

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4 hours ago, Mr. Ham said:

Cancel the arms deal.  The leader of that state is caught red handed in a premeditated brutal murder and dismemberment of a journalist that wrote for Wapo!  Sorry if it leads to a hit to defense industry.  It’s the right thing to do, and we used to care about that.  

Our government gave poor black men Syphilis for a period of 50 years, when exactly in our history did we care about doing the right thing?

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58 minutes ago, JuniorGong said:

Our government gave poor black men Syphilis for a period of 50 years, when exactly in our history did we care about doing the right thing?

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7 hours ago, Mr. Ham said:

Cancel the arms deal.  The leader of that state is caught red handed in a premeditated brutal murder and dismemberment of a journalist that wrote for Wapo!  Sorry if it leads to a hit to defense industry.  It’s the right thing to do, and we used to care about that.  

Welp, that took long. So much for that idea.

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/411271-trump-defends-110-billion-us-arms-sale-to-saudi-arabia

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The Atlantic Council acknowledges Khashoggi's disappearance in a piece that sounds like it's mourning the passing of MBS' reformer image.  

Quote

That was the larger context when Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi disappeared 10 days ago. Reports now are more convincing, in addition to being more persuasive and gruesome, that he was murdered by Saudi agents. So, it soon may be time to mourn even more than the tragic and grisly passing of this intelligent, honorable and principled individual, whom I had known for years as a fellow journalist.

It may also mark the death of the crown prince's best ambitions, if not handled far more decisively and transparently than has been the case thus far.

The crown prince had been confronting three existential strategic threats simultaneously. A yet-incomplete internal struggle over his leadership, a dysfunctional domestic economy and culture that requires wholesale change, and an immediate external threat from an aggressive and expansive Iran. The country, the region and the world would be better off if MBS succeeds on all three.

But his recent mistakes have been the best gift possible for his domestic rivals, for those who fight his reform agenda and for Iran.

I count myself as one of those who had been captivated by the possibility of change and the compelling MBS personality. What impressed me was his focus, energy and vision, laid out over three lengthy meetings in Riyadh and Washington, of how his country had gone wrong and what he would do to modernize it with next-generation support.

Our meetings were off-record, but his on-record statements echoed their central tenets. Perhaps most powerful was his speech just a year ago at the country's first Future Investment Initiative, where he laid out before global investors why his vision for the country more closely matched what the Prophet had intended.

Without that, much more than the Future Investment Initiative is in danger.

Conventional wisdom not long ago was that Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman would rise to the throne and serve for decades, helping to transform his country, the region and the future of Islam for the better. Though he may still achieve that, his success in doing so now rests heavily on how quickly, decisively and transparently he can manage the current crisis and learn from his mistakes.

“Jamal Khashoggi lost control of his fate when he entered the Saudi consulate in Istanbul,” wrote Elliot Abrams in a Washington Post op-ed. “Mohammed bin Salman must act quickly to regain control of his own.”

This article originally appeared on CNBC.com 

Frederick Kempe is president and chief executive officer of the Atlantic Council.

http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/saudi-silence-on-khashoggi-must-end

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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6274093/Turkish-officials-audio-recording-moment-missing-Saudi-journalist-murdered.html

Turkish officials 'have FOUND audio recording of the moment journalist was murdered by Saudi assassination squad recorded on his Apple watch' 

He said: 'I think what's happened, clearly, is the Turks have the Saudi consulate wired, they have transmitters.

'The Turks don't trust any diplomats and they have been into most embassies and most consulates in Turkey and they listen to what's going on -- and if indeed there are tapes proving that he was murdered, I think that's probably how they know. But the Turks are very reluctant to admit that.'  

 

 

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The plot thickens 

Germany's leading right-of-center daily Die Welt this morning reveals that Jamal Khashoggi was not a journalist, but a high-level operative for the Saudi intelligence service, an intimate of Osama bin Laden, and the nephew of the shadiest of all Arab arms dealers, the infamous Adnan Khashoggi. John Bradley reported last week in the Spectator that Khashoggi, who allegedly met a grisly end in a Saudi consulate in Istanbul, was a member of the Muslim Brotherhood, the Islamist organization that among other things wants to replace the Saudi monarchy with a modern Islamist totalitarian state.

[\quote]

From PJ media, whatever that is

https://pjmedia.com/spengler/german-press-reveals-saudi-spook-saga-behind-khashoggi-disappearance/

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1 hour ago, Mike Damone said:

The plot thickens 

 

So gross and predictable.  No way to dispute the murder.  Assasinate his character.  He deserved to be brutally murdered and dismembered.  It was justice, you see.

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11 hours ago, ren hoek said:

https://twitter.com/MitchellCares/status/1050860407038955520

👻MitchellScares 👻Retweeted Jake Tapper

The guy you idolized and treated as a demi-God, John McCain, was one of the biggest allies of Saudi Arabia and you didnt say #### about that. What a joke

He only seemed like a demigod compared to the other male republican senators

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On 10/13/2018 at 10:40 AM, JuniorGong said:

Our government gave poor black men Syphilis for a period of 50 years, when exactly in our history did we care about doing the right thing?

From 2009-2016, duh.

Never mind the regime change across the middle east and hundreds of thousands dead, millions displaced.

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17 hours ago, ren hoek said:

https://twitter.com/MitchellCares/status/1050860407038955520

👻MitchellScares 👻Retweeted Jake Tapper

The guy you idolized and treated as a demi-God, John McCain, was one of the biggest allies of Saudi Arabia and you didnt say #### about that. What a joke

McCain was forgiven of his sins when he tried to remove a sitting president. 

 

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8 hours ago, Mr. Ham said:

So gross and predictable.  No way to dispute the murder.  Assasinate his character.  He deserved to be brutally murdered and dismembered.  It was justice, you see.

If he was in fact a spy working for the Muslim brotherhood and against his own country then he got what he deserved.

It comes with the territory.

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I think the most fascinating (not sure if that is the right word) aspect about this case is that the Saudis were caught - seemingly red-handed. 

I imagine this is a non-story, if the Saudis complete a rendition of Khashoggi and then torture and execute him in the Kingdom.  Sure, there might be a few voices raised if he disappears.  But when Saudi Arabia puts him on a sham trial as an enemy of the state, and then executes him, its not an international crisis.  Senators don't react, heads of states of Germany, England and France, don't react.  Nobody threatens sanctions.

We frequently hear stories of journalists who go missing, or are imprisoned, or killed in totalitarian states - and nobody seems to bat an eye.  Much like Ray Rice - the difference in this case may come down to the video (and audio) that appears to have been taken at the time of the murder.

 

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1 hour ago, Dinsy Ejotuz said:

Defending and deflecting in the name of cold-blooded murder.  There's never a bottom.

There really isn't.  I mean what is worse than murdering a journalist for writing words?  

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Ugh...

Abby D. Phillip
@abbydphillip

Trump is talking to reporters on the WH lawn right now and saying repeatedly that the Saudi's are denying killing Khashoggi. He also suggests it could have been "rogue killers" per pooler.

9:22 AM - 15 Oct 2018

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Laughable, yet predictable.

Even if we accept that this was done by "rogue killers" that speaks nothing to the cover-up.  And by spinning this as "rogue killers" then the Saudis are still complicit as they repeatedly denied that he was killed in the Consulate, and that he in fact had left the consulate.

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