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Undocumented Immigrant Thread (3 Viewers)

KCitons said:
I'm not sure I understand you question? For one, I'm a white male. So, there are a lot of things that I can't even begin to relate to that could have an effect on where I live. I also don't know what it's like to live in Wales. 

My question was about a male living in Sudan. I'm drawing on my personal conversations. I would think it would have been easier for him to go to Wales, than to come to America. 
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It is now.  It wasn’t until Trump became President. 

African voluntary migration was a higher percentage of our immigration from 1970-2010 than at any time in history. 

 
Henry Ford said:
It is now.  It wasn’t until Trump became President. 

African voluntary migration was a higher percentage of our immigration from 1970-2010 than at any time in history. 
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Not sure what your point is?

Based on what I told, it wasn't an easy thing for my friend to get out of Sudan. (much less get to where he wanted to be)  I'm just making the point that it's much harder for people in other parts of the world to either claim asylum and/or get to the U.S.. 

 
Henry Ford said:
Not within Europe it isn’t, for sure. That’s one of the major benefits of the EU (you cross posted with my edit). So why come here?
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Well some of them are coming here. 

Probably because of the concentration camp type conditions of the refugee camps in Europe. Or because it was too cold. Or the asylum process was taking too long so they left. 

 
Dinsy Ejotuz said:
Well, sort of.

They were drunken Irish, dirty Italians, smelly French, dirtbag Scotch-Irish, humorless Germans to say nothing of the weirdo religious fanatics like Quakers, Shakers, Methodist, Anabaptists, Lutherens and the like.

The idea that our immigrants used to be more respectable and more easily assimilated is hysterical.
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Of course and most of the people posting here probably fall under one of those categories.  They were allowed in legally and easily mostly because cheap labor was needed, just like cheap labor is badly needed now. The only thing that has changed is the color of the skin of the people wanting to come here. 

 
Henry Ford said:
What changed starting in the mid to late 60s? The USA started destabilizing Central and South American Countries, causing people to flee their homes and Europe formed and solidified the EU into a dominant economic and human rights force in that area of the world.  
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Here is the answer if only Republicans would get on board. If destabilizing caused many to flee their homes, we must now work toward stabilizing those same regions. Sooner than later and faster than slow. Seems simple but with many in our country being okay with such a divide between rich and poor, stabilizing those countries from that very variable (rich and poor), stabilizing ain't happening any time soon. Sad.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Let's keep things straight, this is what set people off:
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To be fair what got me in the discussion was Tim bumping it to discuss the current raids, well formerly current, now great negotiator rescheduled raids. 

I disagree with the overall policy of this admin, but I have zero issues with rounding up and deporting 2000 people that have been court ordered removed. Not doing so is basically an open invitation for anybody to come across the borders. 

 
KCitons said:
It goes against the idea of a diverse melting pot. 

If we used first come, first served, and combined that with your open borders idea, our country would become less diverse. 
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Wow. I’ve heard a lot of arguments against immigrants from our southern border but this is a new one. 

 
KCitons said:
How is it first come first served if it's easier for someone from Mexico can walk to asylum and someone from Sudan has to walk across the border to Egypt and hope they can fly to the U.S. for asylum. It doesn't matter if you set a cap or limit, it's comes down to geography. 

I'm also wondering what this great "melting pot" will look like in the future if more and more of the immigrant population is from the Central and South America? Is that really whats best for diversity of this country? 
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I am so uninformed on this it's ridiculous but I think a lot of people are. If you ever talk to someone who cares about immigration and has for a while these details become real evident. - I'm just saying that as a disclaimer. The INA does set out a limit though and Mexicans are capped as a percentage as I understand it, it certainly seems to me that leaves like 88% technically who would come from just about anywhere. That's where I thought the lottery comes in.

I'm not really a fan of diversity as a means of ordering things. I like diversity as an idea - on campus, in an office, in any given situation you have work or learn through, but not because I think race is some magic thing. I just think people from different backgrounds and experiences make thinking and doing better. Groupthink is dangerous, and also: boring.

I'm Catholic, and I am actually pretty all right with more Catholics coming into the country. I personally think Central America and South America and Caribbean should be a focus of the economy in my city (outside of tourism), so I'm pretty pro that. I also am not sure why I should see people from Brazil and Honduras being more homogeneous that people from say Norway and Italy. I mean I am trying to understand what I personally should be getting from diversity? I like Irish pubs. I like Norwegian Christmas traditions. I like the Pakistani place that opened up in suburbia. I like the Cuban pastry place in mid-city. 

I'll also say Hispanics were gold twice in my life - once when my sister's house flooded in Houston and during Katrina. Those people were the f there for us. Bang, there, cleaning up, working their ### off, mold, drywall, roofing, canal work, here there everywhere doing the worst most badly needed jobs when we - I mean America right, because we're America? - needed it most. I've got their back whether they know it or not. You want these guys on your team when the ####'s down, seriously.

 
PhantomJB said:
Who said I was a Trump supporter? Who said I was "OK" with his lying/hyperbole?

The way Trump communicates makes it more difficult to get to the underlying facts of a situation. Oh well. He's not changing anytime soon.

Either I can filter it unemotionally...or constantly obsess about it to no productive end and take topics way off track like most people in here.
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You did when you dismissed all but SID2006's second sentence. YMMV

 
[scooter] said:
Many of us have been pointing out this pattern for years. Trump creates conflicts for the sole purpose of "solving" them, thereby creating the illusion that he is the only person worthy of your trust and admiration. It's actually the same tactic that domestic abusers use to gain control over their partners, except that Trump is doing it on a global scale. 
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And then his sycophants claim victory because nothing was broken

 
KCitons said:
Not sure what your point is?

Based on what I told, it wasn't an easy thing for my friend to get out of Sudan. (much less get to where he wanted to be)  I'm just making the point that it's much harder for people in other parts of the world to either claim asylum and/or get to the U.S.. 
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Imagine if Central Americans wanted to go to Europe. 

 
Whoa. Trump talked out his backside with some exaggerated claim then backed off. WHO SAW THIS COMING?

Maybe he'll claim biggest victory ever next on his twitter machine.

 
parasaurolophus said:
To be fair what got me in the discussion was Tim bumping it to discuss the current raids, well formerly current, now great negotiator rescheduled raids. 

I disagree with the overall policy of this admin, but I have zero issues with rounding up and deporting 2000 people that have been court ordered removed. Not doing so is basically an open invitation for anybody to come across the borders. 
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You get a :lmao: and a ❤️ and a :notsure: GB.  Well done. 

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
I am so uninformed on this it's ridiculous but I think a lot of people are. If you ever talk to someone who cares about immigration and has for a while these details become real evident. - I'm just saying that as a disclaimer. The INA does set out a limit though and Mexicans are capped as a percentage as I understand it, it certainly seems to me that leaves like 88% technically who would come from just about anywhere. That's where I thought the lottery comes in.

I'm not really a fan of diversity as a means of ordering things. I like diversity as an idea - on campus, in an office, in any given situation you have work or learn through, but not because I think race is some magic thing. I just think people from different backgrounds and experiences make thinking and doing better. Groupthink is dangerous, and also: boring.

I'm Catholic, and I am actually pretty all right with more Catholics coming into the country. I personally think Central America and South America and Caribbean should be a focus of the economy in my city (outside of tourism), so I'm pretty pro that. I also am not sure why I should see people from Brazil and Honduras being more homogeneous that people from say Norway and Italy. I mean I am trying to understand what I personally should be getting from diversity? I like Irish pubs. I like Norwegian Christmas traditions. I like the Pakistani place that opened up in suburbia. I like the Cuban pastry place in mid-city. 

I'll also say Hispanics were gold twice in my life - once when my sister's house flooded in Houston and during Katrina. Those people were the f there for us. Bang, there, cleaning up, working their ### off, mold, drywall, roofing, canal work, here there everywhere doing the worst most badly needed jobs when we - I mean America right, because we're America? - needed it most. I've got their back whether they know it or not. You want these guys on your team when the ####'s down, seriously.
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Based on your posts that I've read, I'm going to assume it's wasn't your intention. But, your last paragraph is a little odd.

You want these people here to deal with your crap? Not to elevate them to be the best they can be. I want people to come from all over the world. I want those that can innovate, cure, and elevate us all to a better country. Not just someone that can mow my lawn or clean my toilets. 

 
KCitons said:
Based on your posts that I've read, I'm going to assume it's wasn't your intention. But, your last paragraph is a little odd.

You want these people here to deal with your crap? Not to elevate them to be the best they can be. I want people to come from all over the world. I want those that can innovate, cure, and elevate us all to a better country. Not just someone that can mow my lawn or clean my toilets. 
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People do come from all over the world. There’s more diversity in immigration in this country in the last 50 years than ever before in our history. 

 
We allow most people requesting asylum to stay in the country with the understanding that they need to attend their court dates.. If they can’t bother to attend those or their claim for asylum is denied by the court I have no issue with deporting them.

 
Henry Ford said:
People do come from all over the world. There’s more diversity in immigration in this country in the last 50 years than ever before in our history. 
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Where do immigrants come from?

Mexico is the top origin country of the U.S. immigrant population. In 2017, 11.2 million immigrants living in the U.S. were from there, accounting for 25% of all U.S. immigrants. The next largest origin groups were those from China (6%), India (6%), the Philippines (5%) and El Salvador (3%).

By region of birth, immigrants from South and East Asia combined accounted for 27% of all immigrants, close to the share of immigrants from Mexico (25%). Other regions make up smaller shares: Europe/Canada (13%), the Caribbean (10%), Central America (8%), South America (7%), the Middle East (4%) and sub-Saharan Africa (4%).

 
KCitons said:
Where do immigrants come from?

Mexico is the top origin country of the U.S. immigrant population. In 2017, 11.2 million immigrants living in the U.S. were from there, accounting for 25% of all U.S. immigrants. The next largest origin groups were those from China (6%), India (6%), the Philippines (5%) and El Salvador (3%).

By region of birth, immigrants from South and East Asia combined accounted for 27% of all immigrants, close to the share of immigrants from Mexico (25%). Other regions make up smaller shares: Europe/Canada (13%), the Caribbean (10%), Central America (8%), South America (7%), the Middle East (4%) and sub-Saharan Africa (4%).
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The decline in the unauthorized immigrant population is due largely to a fall in the number from Mexico – the single largest group of unauthorized immigrants in the U.S. Between 2007 and 2017, this group decreased by 2 million. Meanwhile, there was a rise in the number from Central America and Asia.

By race and ethnicity, more Asian immigrants than Hispanic immigrants have arrived in the U.S. in most years since 2010. Immigration from Latin America slowed following the Great Recession, particularly for Mexico, which has seen both decreasing flows into the United States and large flows back to Mexico in recent years.

 
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Your own article says 35% of our refugees last year are from the Dem. Rep. of Congo. That’s about 12x what we took in from El Salvador. 

 
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jonessed said:
We allow most people requesting asylum to stay in the country with the understanding that they need to attend their court dates.. If they can’t bother to attend those or their claim for asylum is denied by the court I have no issue with deporting them.
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Most of them did attend their court dates. The notion that they do not is a provable falsehood. 

As for the ones who were denied, I’d like to know the reasons. Unlike you I have a major issue with deportation in most instances. 

 
timschochet said:
Most of them did attend their court dates. The notion that they do not is a provable falsehood. 

As for the ones who were denied, I’d like to know the reasons. Unlike you I have a major issue with deportation in most instances. 
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Tim i think that cnn article you linked did mention some of them not showing up.

 
KCitons said:
Based on your posts that I've read, I'm going to assume it's wasn't your intention. But, your last paragraph is a little odd.

You want these people here to deal with your crap? Not to elevate them to be the best they can be. I want people to come from all over the world. I want those that can innovate, cure, and elevate us all to a better country. Not just someone that can mow my lawn or clean my toilets. 
Click to expand...
I’m saying me, my city and my country owe them a debt of gratitude and the US needs them. Some have started companies and make a good living here years later. - I’ll tell you another story. If you drive down the main expressway that splits Nola you’ll be driving over the graves of these guys. An explanation as to why Irish immigrants were used in the age of slavery is explained within. My grandfather & great grandfather didn’t come here as doctors or engineers, they came here as teens and they worked their asses off. I’m sure your family story is the same. Trump’s mother came here as a maid and she birthed a federal judge and a president. I’m not sure who these people are that the ‘merit based’ system advocates are dreaming of, but I’m sure my people would have been excluded under it.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
I’m saying me, my city and my country owe them a debt of gratitude and the US needs them. Some have started companies and make a good living here years later. - I’ll tell you another story. If you drive down the main expressway that splits Nola you’ll be driving over the graves of these guys. An explanation as to why Irish immigrants were used in the age of slavery is explained within. My grandfather & great grandfather didn’t come here as doctors or engineers, they came here as teens and they worked their asses off. I’m sure your family story is the same. Trump’s mother came here as a maid and she birthed a federal judge and a president. I’m not sure who these people are that the ‘merit based’ system advocates are dreaming of, but I’m sure my people would have been excluded under it.
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My grandfather on my Mom's side came from Sicily and ran booze for the mob during prohibition.  I'm not sure how they got to the U.S.

 
parasaurolophus said:
Still seems pretty bad. This video is fairly recent. 
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It is.  As I said, nowhere near good enough. Average asylum claim time has, I believe, been cut to under seven months (from close to a year.) 

Still, imagine living seven months like that. 

As for Moria, on Lesbos, the rules locking all of those people onto that island in that facility are ridiculous.  The whole camp should be emptied of people, all of them relocated to the mainland, and the facility napalmed.  

 
Mile High said:
Looks like Pelosi and Trump agreed to talks. Now is the time for both sides to reach an agreement. Let's see if there are any adults left in our government. 

Pelosi called Trump Friday, asked him to halt ICE raids: report

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/house/449881-pelosi-called-trump-friday-asked-him-to-halt-ice-raids-report%3famp
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I’d love to see an agreement. There’s also a story that Graham and Durbin are trying to work out something. And Jared is involved. 

But I don’t see how it happens. Democrats won’t agree to anything substantial on immigration unless there is a path to citizenship for at least some of the undocumented already here. And whenever Trump hints in that direction, the right wing talk show hosts go nuts and then Trump pulls back. We already know how this story ends. 

 
Mile High said:
Looks like Pelosi and Trump agreed to talks. Now is the time for both sides to reach an agreement. Let's see if there are any adults left in our government. 

Pelosi called Trump Friday, asked him to halt ICE raids: report

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/house/449881-pelosi-called-trump-friday-asked-him-to-halt-ice-raids-report%3famp
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It would be nice, but I think we’ve seen this before.  Trump wants a wall and Pelosi wants legalization of those already here.  I think putting DACA into law for wall funding is a good start, but I doubt it will happen.

 
 
jonessed said:
Another situation where the system was overwhelmed in very quick fashion.  It took them quite some time to adapt.
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What a crock trying to compare one million asylum seekers from Syria in 2015 to USA settlements in the last 3 years - 97K in 2016, 33K and 21K in the first two years of #45.

 
jonessed said:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2019/06/11/homeland-security-chief-says-90-of-asylum-seekers-miss-court-dates/amp/

You are an open borders guy so it makes sense you have an issue with deportation.  I’m not.
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It’s really embarrassing that you chose to quote the homeland security chief who has already been shown to have lied about that percentage in this very thread. In fact he admitted at the hearing that he couldn’t back up those numbers, and evidence was provided that it was actually the inverse. 

 
And FWIW I don’t believe in “open borders”. Like “illegal immigration” it’s a false term designed to prejudice the reader. I believe in more open immigration. 

 
 
BobbyLayne said:
What a crock trying to compare one million asylum seekers from Syria in 2015 to USA settlements in the last 3 years - 97K in 2016, 33K and 21K in the first two years of #45.
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I have no idea what #45 is, but the estimate this year is over 2x what we had three years ago and significantly more children.  I’m not shocked the system is overwhelmed.

 
timschochet said:
It’s really embarrassing that you chose to quote the homeland security chief who has already been shown to have lied about that percentage in this very thread. In fact he admitted at the hearing that he couldn’t back up those numbers, and evidence was provided that it was actually the inverse. 
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Interesting.  I hadn’t heard that he admitted to lying.  Do you have that quote?  From the documentation it looks like the historical rate in all cases is about 25%.

Whatever the number is as long as they are deporting people who skipped court or were denied their asylum I don’t have an issue.  If you can’t deport people who have exhausted their legal options then there no point in even having immigration courts.

 
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jonessed said:
Interesting.  I hadn’t heard that he admitted to lying.  Do you have that quote?  From the documentation it looks like the historical rate in all cases is about 25%.

Whatever the number is as long as they are deporting people who skipped court or were denied their asylum I don’t have an issue.  If you can’t deport people who have exhausted their legal options then there no point in even having immigration courts.
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He admitted he was talking about a pilot program where people already served with a final order of removal failed to appear after receiving it. I linked the story about the actual program around here somewhere. 

 
jonessed said:
I have no idea what #45 is, but the estimate this year is over 2x what we had three years ago and significantly more children.  I’m not shocked the system is overwhelmed.
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Donald J Trump is 45th President of the United States, colloquially known as TRE45ON.

 
jonessed said:
I have no idea what #45 is, but the estimate this year is over 2x what we had three years ago and significantly more children.  I’m not shocked the system is overwhelmed.
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We’ve had this many people apprehended at the border before.  We just did things differently with them back in the early to mid 2000s

 
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Henry Ford said:
We’ve had this many people apprehended at the border before.  We just did things differently with them back in the early to mid 2000s
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There were nowhere near as many family units. I dont think they werent turning themselves in for defensive asylum claims at these numbers either.

 
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