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this pains me to say but the Steelers are total losers (1 Viewer)

tommyboy

tommyboy

Footballguy
lifelong fan.   

that being said, they just traded away the #1 WR in the NFL  and lost the #1 RB in the NFL due to their insistence on using the Franchise tag repeatedly on him.    Think about that...you have the best offensive talent in the NFL, which has become an offensive league, and you have zero titles to show for it with these guys in their prime.

On top of that fact, you have a team that seems to thrive on drama off the field and on it.   Its not a good look for the NFL's premier franchise.   I hope they figure it out real quick.

 
tommyboy said:
lifelong fan.   

that being said, they just traded away the #1 WR in the NFL  and lost the #1 RB in the NFL due to their insistence on using the Franchise tag repeatedly on him.    Think about that...you have the best offensive talent in the NFL, which has become an offensive league, and you have zero titles to show for it with these guys in their prime.

On top of that fact, you have a team that seems to thrive on drama off the field and on it.   Its not a good look for the NFL's premier franchise.   I hope they figure it out real quick.
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Steelers, let me introduce you to the Raiders.  

 
tommyboy said:
just traded away the #1 WR in the NFL  and lost the #1 RB in the NFL and you have zero titles to show for it with these guys in their prime.
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while I think the #1 ratings are debatable, I think you answered your own question.  All that talent, but yet zero titles to show for it. 

Let's see how each stand on their own merit, or it they were a product of the system.  I'm a GB fan, so I know where you are coming from.  But when that talent moves on, none have thrived outside of GB.  While Jordy isn't AB, both are aging at their position and both had a pretty damn good QB throwing to them. 

Obviously, the Patriots have found the secret sauce and haven't had the NFL's #1 WR or #1 RB and far from it.  Ultimately, it's a team sport and you can't sink all your $$ into any one player. 

 
Sullie said:
NFL's premiere franchise?  I thought you said you were talking about the Steelers?
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#2 overall popularity,  tied for #1 with most all time Super Bowl wins.   Yeah I'd say they are the premiere franchise at least until Dallas wins 7 SB's

 
No dog in fight re: Steelers but I disagree.  

I think, like many teams, they decided the RB position isn't worth the salary cap space it used to. They'll play a great RB on a $15mm year-to-year but not with $20-$40MM guaranteed. Makes sense and unfortunately the narrative works out with Bell appropriately holding out.

AB is the old 'talent vs. distraction' conundrum  or the 'no I in team' and the Rooney family wants more 'team' players than 'I' players so I wouldn't have a problem dumping him. How do you keep a guy who you are paying but doesn't report to work on a must-win week? 

I think drama is overblown and each side did what they appropriately needed to do.  Guessing Steelers will be fine. 

 
The Steelers origin story is fascinating. Art Rooney got the license for the team for about $40,000 dollars (in today’s money). He won a big horse race parlay for about $3.1 million (again today’s money). He used that money to pay players and coaches for another ddcadr or so. Then he sold the team and used that money to buy the Philadelphia Eagles. The Eagles and the league struggled so much that his Eagles, Chicago Cardinals and the Steelers were merged.

 
MikeMan said:
No dog in fight re: Steelers but I disagree.  

I think, like many teams, they decided the RB position isn't worth the salary cap space it used to. They'll play a great RB on a $15mm year-to-year but not with $20-$40MM guaranteed. Makes sense and unfortunately the narrative works out with Bell appropriately holding out.

AB is the old 'talent vs. distraction' conundrum  or the 'no I in team' and the Rooney family wants more 'team' players than 'I' players so I wouldn't have a problem dumping him. How do you keep a guy who you are paying but doesn't report to work on a must-win week? 

I think drama is overblown and each side did what they appropriately needed to do.  Guessing Steelers will be fine. 
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Is Ben a team player? That’s the part we can’t know. There’s some real concerning stories out there.

 
Ilov80s said:
The Steelers origin story is fascinating. Art Rooney got the license for the team for about $40,000 dollars (in today’s money). He won a big horse race parlay for about $3.1 million (again today’s money). He used that money to pay players and coaches for another ddcadr or so. Then he sold the team and used that money to buy the Philadelphia Eagles. The Eagles and the league struggled so much that his Eagles, Chicago Cardinals and the Steelers were merged.
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I thought the merger was because of lack of players during WWII?

 
Ilov80s said:
Is Ben a team player? That’s the part we can’t know. There’s some real concerning stories out there.
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I'd argue that at a minimum he's more of a team player than Brown or Bell...

I also think 2019 Ben will put up numbers closer to 2018 Ben than 2019 Brown will to 2018 Brown or 2019 Bell will to 2017 Bell.  I said it on the Shark Pool thread re. Bell specifically - his "status" as an elite RB was heavily influenced by his system and situation.  He's not going to suddenly give the Jets the ground game they've been lacking.  

 
Fat Nick said:
I'd argue that at a minimum he's more of a team player than Brown or Bell...

I also think 2019 Ben will put up numbers closer to 2018 Ben than 2019 Brown will to 2018 Brown or 2019 Bell will to 2017 Bell.  I said it on the Shark Pool thread re. Bell specifically - his "status" as an elite RB was heavily influenced by his system and situation.  He's not going to suddenly give the Jets the ground game they've been lacking.  
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Depends how much credence you give to the negative stories on Ben.

 
tommyboy said:
lifelong fan.   

that being said, they just traded away the #1 WR in the NFL  and lost the #1 RB in the NFL due to their insistence on using the Franchise tag repeatedly on him.    Think about that...you have the best offensive talent in the NFL, which has become an offensive league, and you have zero titles to show for it with these guys in their prime.

On top of that fact, you have a team that seems to thrive on drama off the field and on it.   Its not a good look for the NFL's premier franchise.   I hope they figure it out real quick.
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Don`t fret..their new teams will have zero titles to show for it as well.  Steelers have kept the Brown problem under wraps for years. Brown did not like Shuster stealing his thunder.

Steelers may have figured it out much earlier than the rest of us.

 
Ilov80s said:
The Steelers origin story is fascinating. Art Rooney got the license for the team for about $40,000 dollars (in today’s money). He won a big horse race parlay for about $3.1 million (again today’s money). He used that money to pay players and coaches for another ddcadr or so. Then he sold the team and used that money to buy the Philadelphia Eagles. The Eagles and the league struggled so much that his Eagles, Chicago Cardinals and the Steelers were merged.
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.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
MikeMan said:
No dog in fight re: Steelers but I disagree.  

I think, like many teams, they decided the RB position isn't worth the salary cap space it used to. They'll play a great RB on a $15mm year-to-year but not with $20-$40MM guaranteed. Makes sense and unfortunately the narrative works out with Bell appropriately holding out.

AB is the old 'talent vs. distraction' conundrum  or the 'no I in team' and the Rooney family wants more 'team' players than 'I' players so I wouldn't have a problem dumping him. How do you keep a guy who you are paying but doesn't report to work on a must-win week? 

I think drama is overblown and each side did what they appropriately needed to do.  Guessing Steelers will be fine. 
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A poorly run franchise would have caved to Bell and kept AB because it was the easy thing to do and what the fans wanted.  Well run franchises don't care what their fans think they should do.

 
tommyboy said:
lifelong fan.   

that being said, they just traded away the #1 WR in the NFL  and lost the #1 RB in the NFL due to their insistence on using the Franchise tag repeatedly on him.    Think about that...you have the best offensive talent in the NFL, which has become an offensive league, and you have zero titles to show for it with these guys in their prime.

On top of that fact, you have a team that seems to thrive on drama off the field and on it.   Its not a good look for the NFL's premier franchise.   I hope they figure it out real quick.
Click to expand...
The Steelers certainly have issues, but losing Bell and Brown aren't it. I think you are vastly overvaluing top RB's and WR's. 

There's only one premier franchise in the NFL. That franchise would have laughed at the idea of paying Bell and Brown top money.

 
Ilov80s said:
The Steelers origin story is fascinating. Art Rooney got the license for the team for about $40,000 dollars (in today’s money). He won a big horse race parlay for about $3.1 million (again today’s money). He used that money to pay players and coaches for another ddcadr or so. Then he sold the team and used that money to buy the Philadelphia Eagles. The Eagles and the league struggled so much that his Eagles, Chicago Cardinals and the Steelers were merged.
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Ahh, my favorite team:  The Steaginals.

 
tommyboy said:
lifelong fan.   

that being said, they just traded away the #1 WR in the NFL  and lost the #1 RB in the NFL due to their insistence on using the Franchise tag repeatedly on him.    Think about that...you have the best offensive talent in the NFL, which has become an offensive league, and you have zero titles to show for it with these guys in their prime.

On top of that fact, you have a team that seems to thrive on drama off the field and on it.   Its not a good look for the NFL's premier franchise.   I hope they figure it out real quick.
Click to expand...
You contradicted yourself. Why would you keep paying those 2 selfish clowns ridiculous money when they havent won diddly squat with them. Seems like a smart move to me, and neither will be part of a .500 team again. Good riddance to them.

 
irish eyes said:
You contradicted yourself. Why would you keep paying those 2 selfish clowns ridiculous money when they havent won diddly squat with them. Seems like a smart move to me, and neither will be part of a .500 team again. Good riddance to them.
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Bell and AB are great players and the Steelers are a better team with their talent.   But, the Steelers made the right moves letting Bell and AB go.   They offered Bell a great contract and paid AB really well recently.   They didn't want to be in Pittsburgh and money wasn't going to solve that problem any longer.  There may be serious issues In Pittsburgh with Ben and/or Tomlin.   Time will tell.   

 
tommyboy said:
lifelong fan.   

that being said, they just traded away the #1 WR in the NFL  and lost the #1 RB in the NFL due to their insistence on using the Franchise tag repeatedly on him.    Think about that...you have the best offensive talent in the NFL, which has become an offensive league, and you have zero titles to show for it with these guys in their prime.

On top of that fact, you have a team that seems to thrive on drama off the field and on it.   Its not a good look for the NFL's premier franchise.   I hope they figure it out real quick.
Click to expand...
I feel the opposite. You think they want drama? No business does. What more could they do to control the situation? They offered Bell a great contract and he turned them down. He’s dumb. Steelers held their ground which I respect. 

Antonio Brown acts like a baby and gets benched in week 17 with Playoffs on the line. It’s a team sport AB! I respect the team decision too because the franchise is more than one player. 

Brown demands a trade because Big Ben is the man. Oh JuJu is getting looks and press ZOMG! Ben helped make Brown the best WR in the NFL. Antonio is dumb like Bell. 

You ain’t pulling this crap with the Steelers. That’s a franchise with a plan and a history. Sure they put up with Bell and Brown behind the scenes because they’re great players. That’s what you do. But when the drama and “it’s all about me” stuff inevitably happens, they’re gone. 

Rooney’s are great owners. Tomlin is a good coach. Steelers fans are lucky to have that stability. What were they supposed to do, let Bell and Brown run the team? 😂 You’re just players. The Steelers will be here long after you’re gone. No, they made decisions and maintained control of their franchise and tried to take the high road. 

 
I dislike the Steelers ... But it sounds to me like the Steelers biggest problem is drafting too well.

These guys they brought in are elite and eventually need to be paid ... or they move on.

Seems to me lots of teams would like to have this problem.

 
Johnny Rock said:
I feel the opposite. You think they want drama? No business does. What more could they do to control the situation? They offered Bell a great contract and he turned them down. He’s dumb. Steelers held their ground which I respect. 

Antonio Brown acts like a baby and gets benched in week 17 with Playoffs on the line. It’s a team sport AB! I respect the team decision too because the franchise is more than one player. 

Brown demands a trade because Big Ben is the man. Oh JuJu is getting looks and press ZOMG! Ben helped make Brown the best WR in the NFL. Antonio is dumb like Bell. 

You ain’t pulling this crap with the Steelers. That’s a franchise with a plan and a history. Sure they put up with Bell and Brown behind the scenes because they’re great players. That’s what you do. But when the drama and “it’s all about me” stuff inevitably happens, they’re gone. 

Rooney’s are great owners. Tomlin is a good coach. Steelers fans are lucky to have that stability. What were they supposed to do, let Bell and Brown run the team? 😂 You’re just players. The Steelers will be here long after you’re gone. No, they made decisions and maintained control of their franchise and tried to take the high road. 
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Agree 100% - there will be the inevitable reply re. "Well then why are they letting Ben 'run the team?'", but I totally agree.  Regardless of Ben's clout in the locker room or with the Rooneys, he's not on Twitter running his mouth 24/7.  He keeps the business behind closed doors, where it should be.  

I'm a life-long Skins fan who married into a Steelers family - The organization has impressed me.  The Rooney's have impressed me.  They know what they're doing.  In general, you don't own a franchise that wins 6 SB's without knowing a thing or two.  You have to give the ownership some decent credit here too because unlike the Pats (all wins under Belichick and Brady), and the Cowboys (not all wins under the same ownership), the Rooney family has had success with a variety of coaches and QB's over the years.  

 
i'm sure that bell and brown will be good under their new teams.   Fact is, they were great while they played for the steelers.  You don't think the Patriots would have loved to have them on their roster the last 5 years?   

so the problem lies either with coaching or Ben.   I'm ruling out Ben for the most part but that leaves Tomlin.    Maybe he needs to reevaluate what they are trying to accomplish, because i don't see any super bowls recently and they've had enviable talent.

 
If you'll recall, Bell was usually hurt around playoff time and their defense has been below the standard for some time. That could fall on the coach and the GM.

 
tommyboy said:
i'm sure that bell and brown will be good under their new teams.   Fact is, they were great while they played for the steelers.  You don't think the Patriots would have loved to have them on their roster the last 5 years?   

so the problem lies either with coaching or Ben.   I'm ruling out Ben for the most part but that leaves Tomlin.    Maybe he needs to reevaluate what they are trying to accomplish, because i don't see any super bowls recently and they've had enviable talent.
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I'm honestly not sure they will...While I get your point re. the Pats wanting to have them, I'd expect either to do well on the Pats.  The Pats >>>>>>Raiders/Jets.  I don't believe either is the kind of talent that can overcome a bad OL/QB and still be an elite star.  Especially with the diva syndrome both displayed last year.  

I would agree that Tomlin may be part of the issue though.  He's had tons of talent - just hasn't been able to pull it together for a while.  Of course "a while" is still more recently than 3/4 of the league.

 
Fat Nick said:
I'm honestly not sure they will...While I get your point re. the Pats wanting to have them, I'd expect either to do well on the Pats.  The Pats >>>>>>Raiders/Jets.  I don't believe either is the kind of talent that can overcome a bad OL/QB and still be an elite star.  Especially with the diva syndrome both displayed last year.  

I would agree that Tomlin may be part of the issue though.  He's had tons of talent - just hasn't been able to pull it together for a while.  Of course "a while" is still more recently than 3/4 of the league.
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as for bell and brown, you underestimate the value of "i'll show you", see 2016 version of LeSean McCoy and DeMarco Murray.   Brown can play anywhere and catch 100 balls, he's a hall of famer already. he's literally unstoppable.

Tomlin doesn't want to adapt from game to game, half to half, season to season.   They are predictable and he gets outcoached often.   

 
tommyboy said:
as for bell and brown, you underestimate the value of "i'll show you", see 2016 version of LeSean McCoy and DeMarco Murray.   Brown can play anywhere and catch 100 balls, he's a hall of famer already. he's literally unstoppable.

Tomlin doesn't want to adapt from game to game, half to half, season to season.   They are predictable and he gets outcoached often.   
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:shrug: I guess I just don't see Brown catching 100 balls on the Raiders.  Again, don't get me wrong - I think he's a talent, but I think there are VERY few NFL stars who's talent can transcend bad teams (Talking Barry Sanders level talent here - where you're THE guy on a team with little else, and you still shine).  For WR's, bad QB's.  For RB's, bad OL's.  Very few.  The guys we think are elite typically have BOTH - extreme talent and great supporting casts.  When you take one away, you lose a lot of the equation.  It's a lot easier to double-team Brown when your option is to expose yourself to Tyrell Williams and Jalen Richard than when it's JuJu and Conner - and that's not even talking about Ben >>> Carr.  I also don't see Bell putting up 1,200 yards rushing and 500 receiving that we've seen from him so often.

Honestly - I'm not saying I KNOW anything.  I'm very curious to find out...I'm just a very big believer that very few NFL talents transcend the team they initially found success on, especially when the new team isn't as gifted overall.  This has been proven by my Redskins for many years now.  Lol.

 
tommyboy said:
#2 overall popularity,  tied for #1 with most all time Super Bowl wins.   Yeah I'd say they are the premiere franchise at least until Dallas wins 7 SB's
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SB WINS:  NE: 6  / PIT: 6 

SB APPEARANCES: NE: 11 / PIT: 8

HISTORICAL WIN RATE: NE: .566 / PIT: .532

AFC CHAMP RECORDS: NE: 11-4 / PIT: 8-8  

 
[icon] said:
SB WINS:  NE: 6  / PIT: 6 

SB APPEARANCES: NE: 11 / PIT: 8

HISTORICAL WIN RATE: NE: .566 / PIT: .532

AFC CHAMP RECORDS: NE: 11-4 / PIT: 8-8  
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their fan base is miniscule compared to the Steelers on a national and worldwide basis.    They are awesome however, i'll give you that

 
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