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Why doesn't the Democrat establishment want to move left? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter IC FBGCav
- Start date
Radical Larry
Footballguy
Remember when you were a somewhat interesting and valued poster on this board?
![[scooter]](/data/avatars/m/22/22287.jpg?1659477690){kind=avatar}
[scooter]
Footballguy
You think Democrats are moving towards the right, while the right thinks Democrats are moving towards Communism.
Democrats only make up 30% of the country. They need a large chunk of independent voters if they want to be in power. So, they don't push too hard.
And at any rate, liberals shouldn't be complaining. Most political issues have moved leftward over the past 10 years (healthcare, gay marriage, climate change, gun control, drugs, etc.). Why risk alienating moderates?
Democrats only make up 30% of the country. They need a large chunk of independent voters if they want to be in power. So, they don't push too hard.
And at any rate, liberals shouldn't be complaining. Most political issues have moved leftward over the past 10 years (healthcare, gay marriage, climate change, gun control, drugs, etc.). Why risk alienating moderates?
Mario Kart
Footballguy
Dems aren't moving left. The Repubs have moved so far right that any movement from the Dems is over exaggerated. The Repub party is nearing The Handmaid's Tale level of crazy.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Wrong. I'm surprised anyone could say that with a straight face. You need to watch something other than CNN and MSNBC.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
power. the Dem power base is labor & teachers and both bureaucracies are anachronisms as presently constituted. the only power they have left is the machinery - the Superdelegates by which they defeated the Bern, the ability to apportion dough and get folks elected. they know if they let people who actually care abide, they're over.
Politician Spock
Footballguy
This left/right stuff is our country's problem. We're to binary.
What we need is some Mr. Miyagi up/down and circle action.
What we need is some Mr. Miyagi up/down and circle action.
timschochet
Footballguy
Because they’ll lose Pennsylvania, and Trump will be re-elected.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
From ~1976 to 2012 they moved right because that's where the votes were. When the votes are somewhere else, they'll go there.IC FBGCav said:
In fact, it's already moved left. Medicare for Anyone is might as well be a party platform plank at this point, for example.
Don't be this way.Radical Larry said:
Apple Jack
Footballguy
You're right. The GOP hasn't moved to the right, they have moved to Crazytown.JohnnyU said:
roadkill1292
Footballguy
Even a way out there lefty like me knows you can't grab for too much all at once. Though I share wikkid's concerns about the Democratic establishment and its desire to obtain and maintain power uber alles, public sentiment continues to drive us inexorably leftward. Yeah, I'm impatient, too, but I'll only really start to worry if new young voters start advocating for a return of social conservatism. As it is, they understand the benefits of progressivism and will soon be the nation's most important electoral voice for change.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
I am not prepared to discourage careening leftiness because i've been waiting for it to re-emerge for almost half a century. I am almost certain we're going to crash and crash big in this generation and am pretty sure that decades of tyranny will follow - because power & militias are on the same side and AOC can't smile into that without getting her face ripped off - but i would like America to get a little practice at fairness before the fall.
ShamrockPride
Footballguy
Can somebody please tell me why this isn't a suspendable offense? Seriously. It's a direct personal attack, and in no conceivable way addresses the thread content or moves conversation in a productive manner. Further, especially as one of the first responses to the OP, it significantly influences the direction and tone of the thread.Radical Larry said:
@Joe Bryant @FBG Moderator
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Totally agree.
If the dems stay a bit left of center they can`t possibly lose as they will get the moderates and independent voters to go their way. The hard liners on the left will always vote dem. Pelosi already knows this and that is why she is trying to get a handle on things before the election season gets in full swing.
Only way they can blow this is going too far left and losing the middle vote that can be swayed.
For the millionth time, you have to report something for it to be seen. We see about 1% of the board.
When you say, "why isn't this a suspendable thing?". 99 times out of 100, the answer is "because we haven't seen it and because you didn't report it".
What he said it totally. Being that way to others here is not something we want. But if you ever wonder why someone isn't suspended for something, the 99% answer is "we haven't seen this." Please report things you see that are far over the line. On the flip side, don't cry wolf every 5 minutes if someone looks at you sideways. We assume you're adults here and know the difference.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Hillary beat Bernie in 68% of the States and got more than 3 million votes than Sander got. superdelegates were irrelevant.
Republicans have moved right (any remaining moderate Republicans are considered Rhinos) as the Freedom caucus has taken over. Democrats have moved left and today much of what Bernie is saying is very similar to the majority of the other candidates. Both parties are looking for something new so they think their party has to move further left or right when what they really need is someone with a message that can negotiate, has integrity, character , communication skills and charm. Note how our current President has none of those characteristics.
HellToupee
Footballguy
Don't Noonan
Footballguy
Seems a bit uncalled forRadical Larry said:
IC FBGCav
Footballguy
You mean like HRC, that center left? Center left is a proven loser. Obama lost over 1000 seats nationwide under his watch. That center left?
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JohnnyU
Footballguy
You mean that HRC that won the popular vote? Center left has a hell of a lot better chance of winning the presidency than far left does.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Disagree,I think HRC was the proven loser. Probably only candidate Trump would have beaten.
IC FBGCav
Footballguy
NCCommish
Footballguy
Many of the policies espoused by the alleged far-left enjoy majority support bipartisan majority support. How do you become irrelevant pushing policies that enjoy majority support from both sides of the aisle?
adonis
Footballguy
Ask Republicans. Support for certain gun control measures enjoys incredible public support, yet they believe if they vote in support of it they'll become irrelevant.
NCCommish
Footballguy
Except their voters want it. 70% of NRA members want it. They are just afraid of the NRA not the voters. So when someone from the commie left runs on it will the left become irrelevant or will they make inroads? And if you never try what changes?
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Far left will get blown out in 2020 if that’s what they run against Trump. A centrist candidate is the only chance they have.
NCCommish
Footballguy
JohnnyU
Footballguy
It's been hashed to death. Surely you know most Americans aren't in favor of far left policies.
NCCommish
Footballguy
Surely you know that 70% of Americans including 85% of Democrats and 52% of Republicans support Medicare for All as just one example. To get to 70% you need a lot of independents as well. Is that one of those far left policies you were talking about?
Mr.Pack
Footballguy
Arsenal of Doom
Footballguy
Generally speaking, the U.S. population and Democratic establishment are moving left pretty quickly. 10 years and change ago Candidate Barack Obama didn't feel like he could openly support Gay Marriage and right now there is an openly gay candidate running for the Democratic nomination and no one seems to think it's big deal. Virtually no one was talking about single payer health care, aside from maybe hypothetically supporting in a one-day scenario. Today most of the Democratic candidates are embracing Medicare for All, albeit with a lot up for interpretation exactly what that means. Marijuana legalization wasn't on anyone's radar and now it's expanding rapidly.
Arsenal of Doom
Footballguy
Other areas are more of mixed-bag when you look across the country. Voting rights have obviously taken a hit, so it's more of mixed bag by State. My state (Colorado) has made huge gains in voting right. We've cleaned up our gerrymandered districts and taken it away from being a political process, have an all mail-in paper ballot system that makes it super easy to vote, etc. Conservative states obviously not so much, but at the National Level Dems are embracing much more liberal reforms like a National Election Day holiday and obviously talking more about the issues with the Electoral College.
Abortion rights is the other area that is clearly back-sliding on a State level, but there isn't really anywhere to go left on that one.
ShamrockPride
Footballguy
The Millennials are coming.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
Yep - it’s just hard for some to be patient. I’m probably one of those but you are right, things are slowing moving left and socially will continue.
NCCommish
Footballguy
supermike80
Footballguy
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-fish-
Footballguy
IC FBGCav
Footballguy
The centrists were pushing the report, not the progressives. The economy is about to take a huge hit and the world is not at peace. HTH.
supermike80
Footballguy
Polls are worthless. I keep saying this. Those numbers are almost entirely meaningless without knowing what questions were asked and who was asked.
NCCommish
Footballguy
So what I'm hearing is you must run a centrist everyone knows this. Data? We don't need no stinking data. Never mind that's what they've been doing and being destroyed at every level. America won't accept your far left commie policies and we don't care that poll after poll says different because we are all now polling experts who reject out of hand multiple polls showing the same range of numbers. Sound about right?
These policies are not far left. They have majority support many even bipartisan majorities. And the only way we are going to change things is to put the ideas out there and defend them. Fight for them. This is how you break gerrymanders you peel off the people from the other party that like your ideas better than what they are getting from their side and you turn out your side. You do that with policies that benefit them and their families. Not little crumbs but real change. Not with "well of course we have to cut taxes and then cut the social safety net but be nice about it" which has been the centrist model. Give them a republican lite and a republican they will vote republican because you are telling them to. Ike warned you.
These policies are not far left. They have majority support many even bipartisan majorities. And the only way we are going to change things is to put the ideas out there and defend them. Fight for them. This is how you break gerrymanders you peel off the people from the other party that like your ideas better than what they are getting from their side and you turn out your side. You do that with policies that benefit them and their families. Not little crumbs but real change. Not with "well of course we have to cut taxes and then cut the social safety net but be nice about it" which has been the centrist model. Give them a republican lite and a republican they will vote republican because you are telling them to. Ike warned you.
Part of it is the way mods respond to reporting. When one of the mob does something, there is at most one report and it must be no big deal. When someone posts against the mob, there are eight reports instantly so the mods quickly react.
NCCommish
Footballguy
Wow we're in total snowflake mode if you think that is bannable. And I like Cav know him IRL. I guarantee he didn't bat an eye over it. Thicker skin people look into it.
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