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Trent Williams...now I've heard everything

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docs make mistakes. my sister in law was told a growth was benign and found out a year later that it was cancerous when she had it removed anyways.

she doesnt play professional sports

this talk that they did it on purpose is absurd

Edited by Dr. Dan

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Washington asks NFL ‘a management council to convene with the NFLPA to review the medical records 

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From the Redskins thread:

2 hours ago, Sidewinder16 said:

Wow.  Trent Williams had an 18 minute presser regarding his situation.  Turns out he had a tumor that the Redskins medical staff misdiagnosed as a cyst for six years.  When he finally got the cancer diagnosis a doctor told him to "get his affairs in order" and that it was very possible he could die.  Had multiple surgeries to completely remove the tumor, the last one in June.  Will have to do follow ups every 6 months to check if the cancer returns.

When asked if his relationship with Bruce could ever be repaired he answered "Next question".  Says he has no trust in the organization but specifically said none of it was Snyder's fault.  He's putting this all on Bruce.

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All he has to do is attend a practice to come down with a football injury. 

This is just ridiculous though.  He's going the Ramsey route but can't be traded. 

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He absolutely could've been traded and teams wanted him but Washington refuses to do it because they're a horribly run organization. And this is NOTHING like the Ramsey route.

Edited by The Frankman
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At this point I think Williams deserves the benefit of the doubt a lot more than Bruce Allen.  I don't understand how Allen still has a job in the NFL.

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44 minutes ago, kittenmittens said:

All he has to do is attend a practice to come down with a football injury. 

This is just ridiculous though.  He's going the Ramsey route but can't be traded. 

If you've read /anything/ about this or the thread at all you'd know this is the wrong take.

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18 minutes ago, RC94 said:

At this point I think Williams deserves the benefit of the doubt a lot more than Bruce Allen.  I don't understand how Allen still has a job in the NFL.

Cronyism

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14 hours ago, wgoldsph said:

If you've read /anything/ about this or the thread at all you'd know this is the wrong take.

Why is it the wrong take?  I fully support Williams doing what he's doing.  I only meant Ramsey route in terms of he can just say he's injured as a way to force his way out of the organization. 

Eta: it's ridiculous that the organization didn't trade him for the 1st that was offered. 

Edited by kittenmittens

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Woof. Another update. 

The Redskins have requested that the NFL’s Management Council "convene a joint committee with the NFLPA to review the medical records and the medical care given to Trent Williams."

"We have requested this review under the NFL’s CBA that provides for an independent third party review of any NFL player’s medical care," the team, which did nothing until Williams' Thursday comments, said in a statement. "The Redskins continue to prioritize the health and well-being of our players and staff." The publicly available evidence strongly suggests otherwise. The Redskins have done the wrong thing over and over with regards to their star left tackle.

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It wasn't until he had a cancer scare that he wanted to end his relationship with the organization. Williams said he was diagnosed with a rare form of cancer called dermatofibrosarcoma protuberans (DFSP). Williams said doctors told him the growth was removed only weeks before it would have reached his skull. And, he said, doctors told him to get his affairs in order. Williams said when he said goodbye to his daughters -- ages 9 and 5 -- before surgery he did not know if they'd see him again.

"It was cancer. I had a tumor removed from my skull -- attached to my skull -- it got pretty serious for a second," Williams said. "I was told some scary things from the doctors. It was definitely nothing to play with. It was one of those things that will change your outlook on life."

Williams said he first asked the Redskins' medical staff about the growth on his head six years ago, but he said nothing was done until this offseason.

Quote

Williams asserts that he was told the lump was "something minor."

"... I mean the lump continued to grow over the years. It was concerning, but there was no pain involved, and if I'm being told by the very people I put my career in the hands of, people are telling me I'm fine, I'm fine," he said. "That's how I looked at it."

After his 18-minute interview session with reporters at his locker, Williams said he even told doctors to remove the growth during previous surgeries on his knee and his thumb.

But it wasn't until this offseason when Redskins doctors examined him and told him to go to a specialist.

"They kind of underestimated it, and it was far more advanced than they realized, and I don't think they realized how long it was there," Williams said.

From there, he flew on owner Dan Snyder's plane to Chicago for further examination. That's where he had the surgery in the winter. Williams said he needed 350 stitches and 75 staples on his head; the diameter of the incision was about that of a softball.

"We literally caught it within weeks of metastasizing through to my brain to my skull," Williams said. "Extracting it was the only thing they could do. Doing radiology on it would have put a cap on my life. I think 15 years was the most I would have had after I started chemo. So I had to cut it out."

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27977296/trent-williams-lack-reaction-cancer-scare-blame-redskins-rift

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Man some posts in this did not age well. 

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10 hours ago, Dr. Dan said:

docs make mistakes. my sister in law was told a growth was benign and found out a year later that it was cancerous when she had it removed anyways.

she doesnt play professional sports

this talk that they did it on purpose is absurd

6 years? You wouldn't be able to give me a flu shot.

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1 hour ago, metoo said:

6 years? You wouldn't be able to give me a flu shot.

I don't blame him for not trusting the doc at all. I wouldn't either. 

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4 hours ago, Dr. Dan said:

I don't blame him for not trusting the doc at all. I wouldn't either. 

Nor do I (for not trusting the team doc and medical staff). I also don't blame him for asking that the last 2 years of his contract be guaranteed, which they currently are not. Working conditions had changed since he signed that contract, and he found out that in order to do his job he had to put up with negligent medical care from the team, care which threatened his health and livlihood. He was weeks away from the cancer being so invasive that he'd need chemotherapy, which would limit his life expectancy to 15 more years tops. He has a wife and 2 growing kids.

He didn't ask for a new contract, just guaranteeing the last 2 years of the current one.

 

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18 hours ago, Dr. Dan said:

docs make mistakes. my sister in law was told a growth was benign and found out a year later that it was cancerous when she had it removed anyways.

she doesnt play professional sports

this talk that they did it on purpose is absurd

I haven't heard anyone say they did it on purpose.

I also don't think they assembled a roster like this on purpose, it was just a result of ineptitude and malpractice. So I honestly think the organization from top to bottom is doing the absolute best they can do. For what that's worth. Washing machines work hard, too.

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This is obviously a bad look for Washington. Trent is understandably upset and has lost trust in the organization. There was clearly some fairly somewhere. I do wonder, though, how hard we can be on the Redskins staff here. Trent said it's a really rare cancer. Do NFL franchises have the expertise to diagnose such a thing? Should they? How much medical care do we expect from them? Is all inclusive medical care an expectation? Maybe it is. It would kind of make sense since they are very wealthy organizations investing heavily in people who need to be healthy. I guess I'm wondering what, exactly, is the failure here. Is that they didn't know what it was? Or is it that they didn't take the proper steps to refer him to someone else? I just find it hard to believe that over a 6 year period that they just continually waived it off as nothing without ever looking into it more. OK, maybe with the Redskins it's not that hard to believe.

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18 minutes ago, dgreen said:

This is obviously a bad look for Washington. Trent is understandably upset and has lost trust in the organization. There was clearly some fairly somewhere. I do wonder, though, how hard we can be on the Redskins staff here. Trent said it's a really rare cancer. Do NFL franchises have the expertise to diagnose such a thing? Should they? How much medical care do we expect from them? Is all inclusive medical care an expectation? Maybe it is. It would kind of make sense since they are very wealthy organizations investing heavily in people who need to be healthy. I guess I'm wondering what, exactly, is the failure here. Is that they didn't know what it was? Or is it that they didn't take the proper steps to refer him to someone else? I just find it hard to believe that over a 6 year period that they just continually waived it off as nothing without ever looking into it more. OK, maybe with the Redskins it's not that hard to believe.

It's hard to guess what communications did or did not take place between the medical staff and Williams about the tumor over the years. The requested investigation, if it ever happens, will unearth some of it. But much communication is verbal and in dealing with doctors neither doctor nor patient writes it all down. I've gone back to see doctors on followups and have had to refresh their memories on all that we talked about previously -- several times in the last year as a matter of fact. Neither of us had it written down; I just remembered it. So we won't know the whole story.

What we do know is that in 2017 and in 2018 the Redskins led the league in games missed by players due to injury and/or number of injuries (I forget which). So before this series of events with Williams the medical staff was already questionable at best. They obviously rushed Colt McCoy back too early at least once, for example.

I bet less than 1% of all NFL players have faith in the Redskins medical staff right now. And I don't blame them.

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1 hour ago, dgreen said:

This is obviously a bad look for Washington. Trent is understandably upset and has lost trust in the organization. There was clearly some fairly somewhere. I do wonder, though, how hard we can be on the Redskins staff here. Trent said it's a really rare cancer. Do NFL franchises have the expertise to diagnose such a thing? Should they? How much medical care do we expect from them? Is all inclusive medical care an expectation? Maybe it is. It would kind of make sense since they are very wealthy organizations investing heavily in people who need to be healthy. I guess I'm wondering what, exactly, is the failure here. Is that they didn't know what it was? Or is it that they didn't take the proper steps to refer him to someone else? I just find it hard to believe that over a 6 year period that they just continually waived it off as nothing without ever looking into it more. OK, maybe with the Redskins it's not that hard to believe.

They should know what it is they don't know.  Last year my son had a very, very rare situation (he's fine now).  The first Children's hospital we went to (and were admitted to three times) pretty much told us "you've exhausted our capabilities, you'll need to go to Children's National in DC."  They didn't want to misdiagnose what he had, and they knew there were better people available to help him. 

This comes off as the Redskins doing whatever they could do to keep him on the field - which is in their best interest. 

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2 hours ago, BoltBacker said:

I haven't heard anyone say they did it on purpose.

I also don't think they assembled a roster like this on purpose, it was just a result of ineptitude and malpractice. So I honestly think the organization from top to bottom is doing the absolute best they can do. For what that's worth. Washing machines work hard, too.

To not call out people specifically hy quoting them:

"They didnt care about him at all."

"I think of that shady doctor from Any Given Sunday when I hear this"

Both if these imply that the MDs were purposeful or just flat out didnt care. I highly doubt this. They made a pretty big mistake, yes.

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1 hour ago, Dr. Dan said:

To not call out people specifically hy quoting them:

"They didnt care about him at all."

"I think of that shady doctor from Any Given Sunday when I hear this"

Both if these imply that the MDs were purposeful or just flat out didnt care. I highly doubt this. They made a pretty big mistake, yes.

Its totally common for health care companies to put their own financial priorities above the patient.  

I think it's pretty believable that they overlooked something because they had the wrong priorities.  I think it's crazy to suggest they actually thought it was cancer and lied about it. 

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-I don’t think the Redskins knew he had cancer

-I also think that they did not put in a level of effort to find out that is acceptable

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5 hours ago, Dr. Dan said:

"I think of that shady doctor from Any Given Sunday when I hear this"

I would actually prefer that you did “call me out by quoting me” if you’re going to put words in my mouth and make a claim that I said something I didn’t.

I never said it was intentional. When I referred to the James Woods character in Any Given Sunday, I said I was reminded of that character based on what Williams position was.  That he felt the team put his playing ahead of his health. 

that's a heck of a lot different than me saying that *I* thought the Redskins did anything on purpose. 

so yeah - next time please do quote me so there’s no misunderstanding on your part, thanks. 

 

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8 hours ago, BoltBacker said:

I haven't heard anyone say they did it on purpose.

I haven’t either. 

8 hours ago, BoltBacker said:

I also don't think they assembled a roster like this on purpose, it was just a result of ineptitude and malpractice. So I honestly think the organization from top to bottom is doing the absolute best they can do. For what that's worth. Washing machines work hard, too.

lol - good analogy. :lol: 

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35 minutes ago, GroveDiesel said:

-I don’t think the Redskins knew he had cancer

-I also think that they did not put in a level of effort to find out that is acceptable

Bingo. 

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7 hours ago, matttyl said:

Last year my son had a very, very rare situation (he's fine now). 

I'm glad your son is fine. Not as glad as you are, for sure. But I have sons and I understand.

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7 hours ago, matttyl said:

They didn't want to misdiagnose what he had, and they knew there were better people available to help him. 

Back to the Redskins, this comes across more as "rub some dirt on it and get out there and play" said to a guy with serious cancer they didn't care enough to even send him to someone to diagnose for 6 years.

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6 hours ago, kittenmittens said:

Its totally common for health care companies to put their own financial priorities above the patient.  

I think it's pretty believable that they overlooked something because they had the wrong priorities.  I think it's crazy to suggest they actually thought it was cancer and lied about it. 

I think this is reasonable 

Others equating the docs to quacks or liars are not

 

cant wait until the offseason...  way better

Edited by Dr. Dan
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Sources said the Redskins likely will look to trade Williams in the offseason, something they were reluctant to do so before the deadline, barring the ability to land a playmaker or a high pick.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28030020/redskins-ot-trent-williams-placed-non-football-injury-list

So a year after they should have traded him, they're considering trading him.

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Williams did a couple of interviews with local beat reporters, here and here.

From the second link, Williams commenting on criticism regarding his motives for his actions, or perceived inactions:

Quote

“I wasn’t looking for blood. I was just looking for a new beginning. To put this behind me and kinda find a new home and that’s what I wanted to do. But I think them allowing me a new start would’ve admitted guilt and I don’t think they were ready to do that.”

“I ain’t got a reason to lie. I’m not trying to get anything. I’m not trying to get no money from them. I don’t even want what they didn’t give me. I just want to go.”

If you want a peek behind the curtain at the ineptitude that plagues that organization, those interviews will give it to you.

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Nfl should take that franchise away from Snyder. What a disaster. 

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And somehow Bruce Allen still has his job.

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And somehow not incredible in the slightest at the same time.

The fact that they took his money on top of all this is just mind-blowing.

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On 11/2/2019 at 6:06 AM, Dr. Dan said:

Others equating the docs to quacks or liars are not

There are liars and quacks in every field. I don't know enough about the WAS medical staff to be sure that they are among those, but the recent evidence of their work doesn't look good. 

People aren't complaining about ALL DOCTORS, people are complaining about the WAS medical staff because of the way Williams/Alex Smith/Guice medical problems have played out in recent years.

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idk there seems to be a lot more to this story that we arent getting, and likely never will

 would have come out in an investigation 

for starters, why tell the NFLPA to not get involved? costs him nothing. 

Secondly, you make millions of dollars and dont opt to have a surgery on something that you say bothered you so much from a cosmetic standpoint, and have it removed in the offseason...  which would have cost maybe 3-4k?? 

We work with NFL players and professional athletes all the time on a cash basis. 

Edited by Dr. Dan

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54 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

idk there seems to be a lot more to this story that we arent getting, and likely never will

 would have come out in an investigation 

for starters, why tell the NFLPA to not get involved? costs him nothing. 

Secondly, you make millions of dollars and dont opt to have a surgery on something that you say bothered you so much from a cosmetic standpoint, and have it removed in the offseason...  which would have cost maybe 3-4k?? 

We work with NFL players and professional athletes all the time on a cash basis. 

 

Your bolded is exactly what ended up happening. He got sick of it from a purely cosmetic point of view and went to get it removed finally and that's when it was discovered to not just be a cyst.

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2 hours ago, BoltBacker said:

There are liars and quacks in every field. I don't know enough about the WAS medical staff to be sure that they are among those, but the recent evidence of their work doesn't look good. 

People aren't complaining about ALL DOCTORS, people are complaining about the WAS medical staff because of the way Williams/Alex Smith/Guice medical problems have played out in recent years.

Seriously. Imagine defending the Washington redskins for anything. I mean, with that track record. I Just can’t. :shrug:

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Just now, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

Your bolded is exactly what ended up happening. He got sick of it from a purely cosmetic point of view and went to get it removed finally and that's when it was discovered to not just be a cyst.

That’s the word. By all accounts he was misdiagnosed repeatedly by the Redskins. He knew it was more, went outside the organization & has faced retaliation from the team ever since. 

of course he doesn’t trust or want to be involved with that organization. 

its indefensible. It doesn’t have to be quackery to be incompetent. They likely didn’t prescribe snake oil or leeches for it. But they certainly misdiagnosed a potentially life-threatening issue. 

i don’t blame Williams one bit for wanting out. 

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24 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

Your bolded is exactly what ended up happening. He got sick of it from a purely cosmetic point of view and went to get it removed finally and that's when it was discovered to not just be a cyst.

5 years later. It just seems like theres a lot of information missing here. if a lump is bothering me as bad as he made it seem to be bothering him, and an MD says it's just a cyst dont worry about it, I'm immediately asking to still have it removed. especially if money isn't an issue. I dont live it for half a decade and then finally get it removed when it's convenient during another surgery 

 

He told the NFLPA to not get involved because it's not like he would get any money back? but then its not about the money? 

 

Just a lot seems weird here. I dont doubt the Redskins MDs missed this, and that sucks for him, but theres more to it we dont know. 

 

athe truth is usually somewhere in the middle of both sides stories 

Edited by Dr. Dan

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It sounds like Trent is just over it. He's been dealing with this for awhile. Sounds kinda like if your ex wants to investigate why you broke up. edit: He's already been gone for months. 

Edited by DirtyCashDylan
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57 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

He told the NFLPA to not get involved because it's not like he would get any money back? but then its not about the money? 

 

Just a lot seems weird here. I dont doubt the Redskins MDs missed this, and that sucks for him, but theres more to it we dont know. 

Nothing really adds up from what he's told us. Or from what the team has told us. 

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