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Have things changed since Joe blowed this place up? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Da Guru
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GoBirds
Footballguy
Not sure how much has changed, some of the regular aggressors though seem to have been given long vacations in recent months which has made the place better. When you check in you don’t have multiple responses from same poster attacking you for your opinion. Unfortunately sounds like some unfairly give Joe a hard time after that occurred by email etc.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Some...IMO, there are still a few who have not changed and likely won't. I don't think their goal is to have this place stay.
But otherwise...the main issue of insulting others has gone down. The "snark", I didn't think it was an issue before...I think some posts are deserving of a snarky response (even some of mine). But yeah, that seems to be down as well (mainly because some of the other behavior improved...Id guess there is a correlation).
But otherwise...the main issue of insulting others has gone down. The "snark", I didn't think it was an issue before...I think some posts are deserving of a snarky response (even some of mine). But yeah, that seems to be down as well (mainly because some of the other behavior improved...Id guess there is a correlation).
I think it's some better.
Enough that we can keep it going for now. And that's a good thing.
Enough that we can keep it going for now. And that's a good thing.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
It's definitely improved. I know that I am actively trying to be less snarky (which is tough), and there seems to be fewer instances of people obvoiusly trying to rile others up (aka trolling). I think it's an improvement.
dkp993
Footballguy
Don't Noonan
Footballguy
I haven't noticed as many folks trolling or insulting folks with different opinions. However, the rules for suspension are still very vague and not consistent.
Koya
Footballguy
"When in doubt, shut yo' mouth" - Koya's grammah*
*Not a real quote. But should be.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
AAABatteries
Footballguy
That would seem to imply that the minority side had a higher percentage of trouble makers or at least folks that couldn't follow the new rules.
ETA - I don't agree with you, btw - I think most folks on both sides have been better
ETA2 - I guess it could also mean Trump supporters just decided to post less
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Definitely not what we're looking for.
You can do your part by providing quality posting on the other side of what you think is the echo. Thanks.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I've noticed a clear reduction in the number of slap-fights. Not sure if that's because people are behaving better or if some instigators got banned, but either way it's an improvement.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Maurile’s rules work. Hopefully they will continue to be followed and enforced.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
One more thought on this - for me, it's improved so much that I've taken several people off ignore so I can actually follow along with discussions whereas before I felt those people engaged in the slap-fights that IK mentions so I would leave them on ignore and only un-hide the occasional post from them.
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The Commish
Footballguy
The rules change made it pretty simple to see who really wants this to be a useful place and those that don't. That filters down into comments like IK's and AAA's where the slap fights are going away because those who don't care about it are being ignored more and more. We still have a flare up here and there, but it's significantly different around here IMO.
Widbil83
Footballguy
Just strolled through the “Trump years” thread and had to fully restrain myself from saying anything that might get me a timeout. Apparently Presidential health issues and rumors are hilarious.
Please report what you see. That kind of stuff is absolutely not what we want.
Just strolled through the “Trump years” thread and had to fully restrain myself from saying anything that might get me a timeout. Apparently Presidential health issues and rumors are hilarious.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
That's totally out of bounds - honestly I read through and many who oppose him were wishing him well and saying they hope he's ok. I didn't see any posts laughing about it - there was one post that shouldn't have been posted taking a shot.
Just strolled through the “Trump years” thread and had to fully restrain myself from saying anything that might get me a timeout. Apparently Presidential health issues and rumors are hilarious.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Yeah...I made a post with two quotes from twitter. Both were mocking the phase one thing...which I think is fair. Though, one was more about his size and after Koya's post and some reflection, I edited it out of my post. Prior to the new direction, I wouldn't have likely done that.
Sometimes I click on a white star within a blue circle to see new posts in a thread and I'm immediately put off by the bickering ... and then I see that I haven't clicked on that thread in a while because the "new" posts are from August or September.
The easiest way to see the change is to go back in time and look at discussions from a few months ago.
The easiest way to see the change is to go back in time and look at discussions from a few months ago.
![[scooter]](/data/avatars/m/22/22287.jpg?1659477690){kind=avatar}
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
There hasn’t been any significant change in the number of Trump supporters contributing to the majority of threads. Assuming that’s a goal, I have no idea how we can achieve that.
krista4
Footballguy
AAABatteries
Footballguy
He’d have to change that avatar first - I’ve had nightmares about that a few times since he changed to it.
Dickies
Footballguy
He’s been a refreshing voice of skepticism. Everyone should take note for other topics too
The Commish
Footballguy
The Future Champs
Footballguy
I've been ignoring a lot of people for a long time, yet I still "like" snarky replies to said same individuals. I'm trying to stop that entirely.
jamny
Footballguy
Thanks but I would imagine that to most diehard Trump supporters, I'm part of the echo chamber, worse than a liberal in some ways, at best, a poser at worst, a traitor. I only became a Trump supporter on election day. I was a Rubio supporter and voted for Ted freakin' Cruz in the primary. I applauded Cruz when he refused to endorse Trump at the convention. I still support Romney and anyone else that is willing to stand up to Trump when necessary. But I'll still support him as much as I can while he is still in office.
I think the board has improved in that regard. I'm able to support Trump without having certain posters attack a lesser point I was trying to make and ignore the main point, which would lead to endless replies explaining myself. Some of that comes from me learning to stick to one point as often as possible to prevent tangents but it mostly comes from people willing to engage in a less hostile way, thanks to the new rules.
That's clearly not what they were going for. I'm sure you see me as part of a "lib echo chamber" even though I'm a non-liberal independent and yet JB was noticeably irritated with me in a recent exchange in the impeachment result thread. It seemed to be the result of a misinterpretation at first, but I sensed the irritation remained even after a couple clarifications. I could be wrong, but I think it is because I'm not masking my contempt well enough, and that was the crux of his stickied note: they don't want any discernible contempt in here. You guys think your man is being unfairly persecuted and people like me are frustrated about his party and supporters turning a blind eye to his lies and corruption. The ingredients for contempt are plentiful, but even if it is justified they don't want it boiling over into conversations in here.tonydead said:
Additionally, you gotta stop with the echo chamber stuff. 30% more people disapprove than approve*, so you should expect more people to be voicing disapproval on a public message board. And given the demographics that voted for him, I wouldn't expect as many supporters to show up online, but that's just my own personal expectation. You can interpret those demographics how you wish. Either way, I don't think the smaller number of trump supporters is due to FBG moderation.
*53.9% disapprove, 41.3% approve... (53.9-41.3)/41.3=31%
roadkill1292
Footballguy
fatguy might disagree with the bolded. And from an anecdotal standpoint, my second board, which is even more stringently moderated than this one, is even less attractive to conservative posters. Maybe for the same reason.
In my experience at Reddit, where moderation is minimal, there are very few conservative posters in /r/politics, as they all flock to /r/conservative and the now quarantined /r/the_donald because it seems they are the ones that actually seek an echo chamber. I've heard it's basically a guaranteed lifetime ban to enter into either one of those and voice even a mild disagreement with any of their sentiments.
To be fair, I got a lifetime ban within 5 minutes of entering /r/socialism. Someone had linked it from /r/politics and I was just curious what they were talking about in there so I was perusing, as an ADD person is wont to do, and someone had made a clever little joke at the expense of socialism and was getting downvoted to hell. My one and only post in /r/socialism was something along the lines of "ignore the downvotes, that was funny" and BAM, minutes later I've been banned for life. I honestly think independents are the only people that should be allowed to call anyone snowflakes at this point.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
Is that board full of real socialists or just liberals who want an expanded social net (what the Repubs call socialism)?
Trump's approval rating here is routinely half or less than half of what it is among the national polls when asked exactly the same way.
Are you saying the Trump vs Anti Trump split in the political forum is close to the way it splits for the nation as a whole?
No, I'm merely saying he should expect to be in the minority. I think the demographics of trump voters should further decrease expectation of accurate online representation, although I tried to make it clear that this is just my perception of how I'd expect those demographics to impact online presence.
So that's my hypothesis rather than blaming moderation for the discrepancy. You have a different hypothesis?
The "bolded" here is "Either way, I don't think the smaller number of trump supporters is due to FBG moderation. "
That's a mixed answer.
Take two posts that are equally offensive.
One is Pro Trump.
One is Anti Trump.
The Pro Trump post will almost always be reported by many more people. Just because of the demographics. There are so many more Anti Trump people here. And human nature is such that a post is much more likely to be reported if it's offensive to "your" side. That's to be expected.
And because the vast majority of moderating here is done based on reports, the side holding the minority view will always be under much more scrutiny. That's not good. But that's just reality.
So yes, I believe the way the board is moderated definitely results in more Trump supporters being suspended than would happen in a perfect system.
With that said, I don't know it's the primary reason we have so few Trump supporters. I've said for years, I think the reason we have so few is the board as a whole is not welcome to it. We do an ok job of trying to ask people to be cool. But the over riding sentiment is this is an anti Trump forum. If you know me you know I've voted for the Democratic candidate in every presidential election back to Bill Clinton. But I personally don't think such an anti Trump makeup is healthy for good discussion. I think it absolutely becomes a "pile on" type thing.
I've had friends who are Trump supporters look at our board and just laugh when I ask if they'd post here. I don't disagree with them.
So what we end up with is most of the Trump supporters we have left are by definition people that are pretty tough and are used to a scrap and will put up with it. I don't think that's ideal but that's where we are.
On the upside, I think we've become better on that. I think me pleading with you guys to lower the condescension and the snark and the contempt (my new focus word) has helped. I hope it'll increase the number of posters like Jamny for instance. We'll see.
The interesting thing is that FBG's as a whole is a pretty even representation of conservative and/or Republicans vs. liberals and/or Democrats. If any group is over represented it is probably libertarians/independents. It is really only the political forum where the imbalance is pretty extreme. There are a combination of factors which lead to it, but one major factor was the reporting feature was gamed by the leftist here very effectively. A lot of baiting and reporting done by the majority.
I don't think it was "gamed" as much as it's just the reality of the board demographics coupled with the human nature aspect that people are going to report something they see as offensive to "their side" coupled with the fact the vast majority of the moderation is done by reports.
matuski
Footballguy
This dog piling chases away more than just the Pro Trump posters.
Anything not echoing perfectly gets the full treatment.
Understood. Piling on will drive folks away for sure. Not sure how to handle it other than just asking people to be cool.
To add, I think the best way to help there with the piling on though is to have a more diverse demographic on issues. I would love to have more of that.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Sure...be tasteful and civil. Often times its seen as piling on because multiple people reply quickly to something posted. I don't think its posters trying to pile on...often reading things in a threaded form, you reply before reading all of the posts in a topic and don't see that others have replied something similar. Often I do see others replied and I go back and hide my reply that was similar.
As an example...today a post was made quoting a Trump Tweet. Trump quoted FoxNews claiming Pelosi said something. Multiple people replied stating that Pelosi never said what was claimed. Some likely replying as the others are posting their replies. is that piling on?
It was more than just the board demographics though. I recall you could easily pull up the people who had the most 'likes' for the given day. It was quite common that the top 5 or 6 were always liberal/anti-Trump posters on the PSF and by a large margin. They were very attuned to using the like button much more than any other group and by logic probably the report button. And this was while there were still a decent number of non-anti-Trumpers still posting. Maybe 'gaming' is not the best word, but it is what popped into my head. The demographics in the PSF is very unique to the other forums on FBGs.
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munga30
Checkin' my email
John Blutarsky
Footballguy
You are on record as being ok with snark and don’t have an issue with it. Now you claim piling on doesn’t happen. Joe is correct about the snark and condescending comments.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
To answer the question in the thread title, it's changed at first but slowly getting back to the old with more and more of the snark. People always behave when Joe is active and participating.
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