What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

Should women have their own clubs? (1 Viewer)

Yea that's a good idea, just like men's clubs. You wonder why we have inequality between men, women, races? It's because of stupid stuff like this, never understood them.

 
Weird question. They have them all over Houston, Tampa, LA and most major Cities.  But, yeah, they do attract men.

 
Based on the article the issue here is that they dont qualify to be a social club so they cant prohibit men. 

That article is pretty funny. Those quotes are hilarious. Its like they grabbed every feminist they could to give stereotypical comments.

 
Couldn't care less, but yeah sure of course. There's a country club here inside the Beltway where women aren't permitted on the property with the exception of a couple weeks every December where by reservation only they can go to the pro shop to shop for Christmas presents for their husbands. Brett Kavanaugh is a member.

 
Couldn't care less, but yeah sure of course. There's a country club here inside the Beltway where women aren't permitted on the property with the exception of a couple weeks every December where by reservation only they can go to the pro shop to shop for Christmas presents for their husbands. Brett Kavanaugh is a member.
I worked at one of the most exclusive all men's private clubs in Chicago for 3 years. (pretty much all white too, except for a handful of asian and jewish members).  I was young, it was my first job out of college and it was a very high profile and exclusive job to have. We didn't allow women on property except during the holidays. The couldn't come into the clubhouse, but had to walk around the back of the building to go through the golf shop entrance.

 
Based on the article the issue here is that they dont qualify to be a social club so they cant prohibit men. 

That article is pretty funny. Those quotes are hilarious. Its like they grabbed every feminist they could to give stereotypical comments.
"Up until about a year or so ago, when the space was truly a women-only sanctuary, members said they could comfortably walk around braless in a robe after a shower. Now, they say, they’re constantly looking over their shoulders, wondering who the loud dude chewing his lunch is." :lmao:

I swear I read almost this exact quote with the genders reversed back when there were controversies around all men's clubs or female reporters in the locker room.

 
Why can't a private entity discriminate based on gender? Or race or age or anything they want to? Them legally required to allow stupid men in is dumb as hell.

 
Really hot girls should have their own clubs they can go to so they don’t get hit on. 

Remember this classic country song?

 
"Classic patriarchal entitlement complex.” :lol:

“I think they’re just losers,” she says of the male plus-ones. “Or cucked boyfriends." :oldunsure:

 
I worked at one of the most exclusive all men's private clubs in Chicago for 3 years. (pretty much all white too, except for a handful of asian and jewish members).  I was young, it was my first job out of college and it was a very high profile and exclusive job to have. We didn't allow women on property except during the holidays. The couldn't come into the clubhouse, but had to walk around the back of the building to go through the golf shop entrance.
Every jewish person i've met identifies as white.  Am i missing something here?

 
In Japan, some trains have cars designated for women only.  I see nothing wrong with it. I also favor cleavage at work.  

 
you mean besides Bed, Bath, and Beyond?
Pottery Barn

And yes, so should men, Europeans, Africans, Indians, lesbians, heterosexuals, trans, non-binary, dog owners, cat owners, bird watchers, runners, veterans, etc. 

You do you, let us be ourselves and be around people we want to be. 

 
I can see reasons women would want to have some sort of sanctuary away from men.

I cant see any reason men would want to infiltrate the area. 

 
Really? 
I think its safe to say that a certain percentage of women that would join a club like this arent interested in men. Those that are, would likely see men who insist on being there as jackasses. So in reality, a man would have little chance of scoring in this setting. 

So no, I cant see any reason a man would want to be there. 

 
I think its safe to say that a certain percentage of women that would join a club like this arent interested in men. Those that are, would likely see men who insist on being there as jackasses. So in reality, a man would have little chance of scoring in this setting. 

So no, I cant see any reason a man would want to be there. 
Do you not know any men who genuinely prefer the company of women? As friends, whether they'd also be interested romantically or not.

 
Do you not know any men who genuinely prefer the company of women? As friends, whether they'd also be interested romantically or not.


I don't - not even close 
My son actually fits this description.  His closest group of friends are all girls...about 6 or 7 of them that all hang together.  He does have some male friends as well, but he definite spends more time with the group of girls.

 
Sure, but in this particular setting, they dont want the man there. 
That's a fair point, but it doesn't mean the guy doesn't want to be there. 

Plenty of women would rather hang out with the guys too. 

But we should still be able to have private clubs where we decide the membership.

 
Every jewish person i've met identifies as white.  Am i missing something here?
Look at who's never met Rod Carew.
O.J. Simpson: not a Jew
But guess who is?: Hall-of-famer Rod Carew (he converted)
We got Ann Landers and her sister Dear Abby
Harrison Ford's a quarter Jewish - not too shabby!

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I don't see why any group can't have their own club.   Who does this hurt?   Why do people care?   
(Let me, in advance, apologize to the house for potentially kicking this thread into the Politics Forum.)

I'm not sure if the guys that go to Wing locations are doing it "because they can", doing it to ogle, or doing it to network/do business. But I do know why the law constrains Wing from explicitly excluding men from the premises -- there's a concept that women (and any protected minority class) should be protected from exclusion from male (or any majority class) clubs. The laws that carry out that concept, for better or worse, swing both ways and are written to cover all cases of exclusion based on sex/gender, race, orientation, etc. Belonging to a majority, "privileged" class, by law, does not exempt a person from being protected by anti-discrimination law.

If such laws were nonexistent -- or merely selectively enforced -- it could lead to problematic situations like the ones described below:

-- In New Orleans, four racially-segregated Mardi Gras krewes paraded on publicly-funded roadways and enjoyed police protection until 1992. Many krewes (especially long-time ones) functioned much like private social clubs that felt free to limit membership as they saw fit. Membership in these krewes was (and is) an important way to make and maintain business connections in New Orleans. However, the krewes obviously depended on publicly-funded services to hold their parades though they also hosted and paid for other functions privately. The rest of the story in the 2006 NPR transcript spoilered for length below:


 
KAREN GRIGSBY BATES, NPR: Dorothy Mae Taylor was a longtime civil rights advocate before she was elected the first woman in New Orleans City Council in 1986. Taylor became famous, and some would say infamous, when she proposed an ordinance in 1991 to desegregate the gentlemen's luncheon clubs that had been the public face of the Mardi Gras krewes. Taylor held public hearings that forced the club members to answer questions they didn't even ask in private.

Ms. TAYLOR: Have you recommended any other members since you've been there 40 years?

Unidentified Man: I'm sure I have, yes.

Ms. TAYLOR: Have any of them been blacks, Jews or Italians?

Unidentified Man: I don't know if any have been Italians or not. I don't know that question.

Ms. TAYLOR: Okay. What about blacks?

Unidentified Man: No, ma'am.

Ms. TAYLOR: Okay.

Mr. JAMES GILL (Columnist, New Orleans Times-Picayune): The old-line krewes, I think you could say, were the social elite, the educated crowd.

BATES: James Gill is a columnist for the New Orleans Times-Picayune and the author of The Lords of Misrule: Mardi Gras and the Politics of Race in New Orleans.

Mr. GILL: I think you cannot deny that she is remembered among white people here as the vixen who tried to destroy Mardi Gras, and who to some extent succeeded.

BATES: He covered Taylor's city council hearings in 1991 until a weakened version of the anti-discrimination ordinance was passed in '92. Gill says that many of the old-line krewes believed Taylor ruined what had been a wonderful party that they had sponsored and financed as their gift to the city.

Mr. GILL: No one is trying to defend segregation, but I think you cannot undermine an American's right to choose his own friends. It's not quite as simple a matter of principle as it might at first seem.

BATES: But many black citizens saw it differently. Jay Banks was a senior aide to Dorothy May Taylor. He says integrating the old-line krewes for Mardi Gras was never the main focus of his boss's efforts.

Mr. JAY BANKS (Senior aide to Dorothy Mae Taylor): Many business deals are being cut in those private clubs that everybody didn't have access to; business deals that related to tax dollars. Those businessmen were benefiting, but if you or I were in the same business, we didn't have the opportunity to sit at their table and have that discussion. That is how the whole thing started.

BATES: Banks says the opponents of Taylor's ordinance framed it as a challenge to the beloved tradition of Mardi Gras instead of a challenge to segregation.

Mr. BANKS: It got twisted into a Mardi Gras ordinance because the folks that were opposing it, that's not sexy. Mardi Gras never was sexy.

BATES: And nobody wanted to mess with the festival that made New Orleans world-famous. In the end, a weaker version of Taylor's proposal passed. Three of the four segregated krewes immediately withdrew, although one, Proteus, returned in recent years. Many white citizens were furious, and to this day they remember Dorothy Mae Taylor as the woman who tried to ruin Mardi Gras, but Jay Banks says Dorothy Mae Taylor, who died in 2000, did more for New Orleans than she's given credit for.

Mr. BANKS: The legacy will be long remembered, unfortunately for that quote "Mardi Gras Ordinance." But the reality of it is, it was much bigger than that. And again, if folks will just remember that it really was about trying to do what's right, they will be remembering her in the light that she's in.[/spoiler]
-- Augusta National Golf Club excluded African-American members until 1990 and female members until 2012. In common with the New Orleans Mardi Gras krewes, membership among the powerful members of Augusta National was felt to confer significant advantages in making business connections from which women were excluded.  A synopsis of the controversy around admitting women as members spoilered below:


 
Augusta National and its then-Chairman Hootie Johnson are widely known for a disagreement beginning in 2002 with Martha Burk, then chair of the Washington-based National Council of Women's Organizations; the dispute arose over Augusta National's refusal to admit female members to the club. Burk said she found out about the club's policies in a USA Today column by Christine Brennan published April 11, 2002. She then wrote a private letter to Johnson, saying that hosting the Masters Tournament at a male-only club constituted sexism. Johnson characterized Burk's approach as "offensive and coercive". The club hired consulting firm WomanTrend which ran a survey and found that "Augusta National's membership policies were not topmost on the list of women's concerns"; the poll was called "unethical" by Burk.

Responding to efforts to link the issue to sexism and civil rights, Johnson maintained that the issue had to do with the rights of any private club:

“Our membership is single gender just as many other organizations and clubs all across America. These would include Junior Leagues, sororities, fraternities, Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, and countless others. And we all have a moral and legal right to organize our clubs the way we wish."

Burk, whose childhood nickname was also Hootie, claimed to have been "called a man hater, anti-family, lesbian, all the usual things." Johnson was portrayed as a Senator Claghorn type —"a blustery defender of all things Southern".

Following the discord, two club members resigned: Thomas H. Wyman, a former CEO of CBS, and John Snow, when President George W. Bush nominated him to serve as Secretary of the Treasury. Pressure on corporate sponsors led the club to broadcast the 2003 and 2004 tournaments without commercials. The controversy was discussed by the International Olympic Committee when re-examining whether golf meets Olympic criteria of a "sport practiced without discrimination with a spirit of friendship, solidarity and fair play". Augusta National extended membership to Condoleezza Rice and Darla Moore on August 20, 2012.
...

So, there's a few angles one could take when discussing Wing. Is discrimination by protected class (sex/gender, race, etc.) always, 100% of the time, something that should be struck down? Are there instances where it's OK to discriminate this way? Is it more OK for protected-class minorities (e.g. women, African-Americans, etc.) to foster institutions that discriminate this way than it is for protected-class majorities?





 
Last edited by a moderator:
(We can't do two spoiler boxes in one post? And if we mess up the spoiler tags, we can't edit to correct?)

 
The flip side being that "freedom to exclude" is legally curtailed in many instances. That's where the controversy typically lies (sez Captain Obvious).
Yeah I know, but it shouldn't be.  Private (but not government) entities should be free to exclude whoever they want on whatever basis they want.  

 
Every jewish person i've met identifies as white.  Am i missing something here?
Look at who's never met Rod Carew.
O.J. Simpson: not a Jew
But guess who is?: Hall-of-famer Rod Carew (he converted)
We got Ann Landers and her sister Dear Abby
Harrison Ford's a quarter Jewish - not too shabby!
Never formally converted.
 

Confusion over conversion to Judaism

There is no evidence that Carew ever formally converted to Judaism, although he wore a chai necklace during his playing days. His first wife, Marilynn Levy, is Jewish[9] and he was a member of Temple Beth Shalom[18] in Santa Ana, California. Their three daughters were raised in the Jewish tradition and had their bat mitzvahs there. When one daughter, Michelle, died at age 18, services were held at Beth Shalom,[19] and she was buried in the family plot at the United Hebrew Brotherhood Cemetery in Richfield, Minnesota, a suburb of Minneapolis, where Rod Carew played for the Minnesota Twins.[20]

A 1976 article written in Esquire magazine was one of the first publications to assert that Carew is Jewish. Sportswriter Harry Stein released his "All-Time All-Star Argument Starter" article which consisted of five different ethnic-based baseball teams. Carew was erroneously named the second baseman on Stein's All-Jewish team. A 2007 Salon article named Carew one of the 18 best Jewish ballplayers of all time; the article clarified that Carew was not Jewish but commended him for raising his children in the faith and for marrying Levy in spite of death threats he received.[21]

Another source propagating the story is the 1994 song, "The Chanukah Song", written and performed by entertainer Adam Sandler, in which he lists famous Jews of the 20th century: "...O.J. Simpson... not a Jew! But guess who is: Hall of Famer Rod Carew. - He converted." Carew later wrote Sandler and explained the situation, adding that he thought the song was "pretty funny."

 
Private (but not government) entities should be free to exclude whoever they want on whatever basis they want.  
And then you get into controversy when these private entities accept public funds to carry out their activities (the Mardi Gras krewe example I gave a few posts up). As I understand it, though, if such organizations truly run 100% privately ... they can legally exclude whoever.

I am unsure why this doesn't work for the Wing locations mentioned in the OP. Maybe something to do with their incorporation?

 
My son actually fits this description.  His closest group of friends are all girls...about 6 or 7 of them that all hang together.  He does have some male friends as well, but he definite spends more time with the group of girls.
How old is he?  Smart kid 

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top