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☹ Official 2020 Las Vegas Raiders thread ☹ (2 Viewers)

Stompin' Tom Connors said:
The bolded is simply not the case.

Raiders had a stretch of 11 home games blacked out in a row in 2010. I remember a stat in 2012 that over half of games in the previous 17 years were blacked out.

There are two realities at play here, both of which mitigate the concern you seem to see:

1) The novelty of a new team, win or lose, is going to be a draw. Period.

And one with an iconic history (and bad-### unis) and a brand spanking new state of the art facility even more so. 60K is a lot of seats (not comparative to other NFL stadiums, including Oakland Coliseum), but you see from the immediate sell-out of season ticket licenses and home games and ridiculously high prices for individual game tickets that demand isn't going to be a problem -- from fans local and abroad.

I'd argue that the least fickle of fans are those that are just getting a team -- it's great to finally have a team of their own, and not having any other pro sports besides hockey just drives even more local attention and fandom to this team.

2) Long term, every team needs to win or they will struggle with their following.

That's not just the Raiders in their new home of Vegas. This is not a near-term concern, and its impact applies equally to all teams.
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I never said they wouldn’t pack the stadium.

i said they wouldn’t have home field advantage.

IMO they're going to struggle to fill the place with ~50% raider fans. 

And yes, I recall that particularly abysmal season. That was kind of an outlier where they couldn’t even get the radio stations to buy enough tickets to avoid the blackouts. 

point is the fans in Oakland supported that team more than that team often deserved. 

I guess this is all moot if the teams are playing to empty seats.   

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
I never said they wouldn’t pack the stadium.

i said they wouldn’t have home field advantage.

IMO they're going to struggle to fill the place with ~50% raider fans. 

And yes, I recall that particularly abysmal season. That was kind of an outlier where they couldn’t even get the radio stations to buy enough tickets to avoid the blackouts. 

point is the fans in Oakland supported that team more than that team often deserved. 

I guess this is all moot if the teams are playing to empty seats.   
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You said Raiders fans packed the house whether the team was good or bad.

Half of games being blacked out over 17 years is proof of the other side of that argument. It was not due to a particularly bad season nor was it an outlier, as opposed to an unfortunate and sickening trend (they broke that 11 game black out streak during a 2010 season that was actually good -- the team finally reached 8-8; it was the 7 years prior where we didn't crack 5 games in any season that was the driver of plummeting attendance).

You said people embraced hockey in Vegas because they likely didn’t already have a favorite hockey team. I think it was more because they didn't have a team at all.

You are also saying they will struggle to fill the stands with fickle fans. Rate of sale and price of tickets seems to tell the opposite story.

I agree that Vegas is going to be a much easier place for away teams to travel to -- but the point I also made (as others have here as well) as that same environment (cheap and accessible flights, hotels, tickets in the hands of hotel concierges and businesses etc.) also makes it just as easy for fans from around the country (and there are lots of them, especially not so far away in California) to enjoy the same benefits. So I think that evens out in the wash.

I personally don't think this will be as much of a problem as you fear. We'll see. To your point, we have to get to the point where football is being played in front of fans first.

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
You do realize this logic also applies to the home team, who will he fully immersed in hookers & blow, right? :lol:  
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You don't know anyone that lives in Vegas do you? 

I know a bunch. None of them do the Vegas thing unless a friend or family member comes out and they show them around. 

Wherever you live you get numb to the unique things about it. And every major city... well, I guess KC and Green Bay aren't major... has trouble to get into. 

The normal human psych is to want to do more when you visit. How much freedom will teams give them to do that? Likely not a whole lot but you know there are players who will get amped up more about going to Vegas than playing in the game. 

 
Chadstroma said:
You don't know anyone that lives in Vegas do you? 

I know a bunch. None of them do the Vegas thing unless a friend or family member comes out and they show them around. 

Wherever you live you get numb to the unique things about it. And every major city... well, I guess KC and Green Bay aren't major... has trouble to get into. 

The normal human psych is to want to do more when you visit. How much freedom will teams give them to do that? Likely not a whole lot but you know there are players who will get amped up more about going to Vegas than playing in the game. 
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Yeah, but millionaire NFL players maybe aren’t like casino workers. Maybe they aren’t gonna move to Vegas just because they play there. 

I know an electrician who lives there - And you’re right, he doesn’t do the Vegas thing. But If he won the lottery tomorrow he probably would. lol

 
I agree that Vegas is going to be a much easier place for away teams to travel to -- but the point I also made (as others have here as well) as that same environment (cheap and accessible flights, hotels, tickets in the hands of hotel concierges and businesses etc.) also makes it just as easy for fans from around the country (and there are lots of them, especially not so far away in California) to enjoy the same benefits. So I think that evens out in the wash.

I personally don't think this will be as much of a problem as you fear. We'll see. To your point, we have to get to the point where football is being played in front of fans first.
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time will tell. 

I think winning will solve a lot of potential problems. 

losing could exacerbate them. A new team that sucks is not a draw.  

1st year should be good regardless as people will want to see the new stadium. Hell, I wanna see the new stadium.

bad year to have a pandemic, that’s for sure. Not that there’s ever a good year for it, but man - Vegas & the Raiders takin some hits. 

 
massraider said:
Yeah, rest of the NFL havin it easier.

You can tell by ticket sales.....😕
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Not sure what ticket sales have to do with anything if they don’t allow fans in the seats. 

Pretty sure the hotels & casinos were banking on Raiders/NFL in town as a major draw this year. That’s certainly going to have a bigger impact than say, Browns fans buying season tickets for example. 

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
Not sure what ticket sales have to do with anything if they don’t allow fans in the seats. 

Pretty sure the hotels & casinos were banking on Raiders/NFL in town as a major draw this year. That’s certainly going to have a bigger impact than say, Browns fans buying season tickets for example. 
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Empty stadiums bad for everyone. 

The implication it's somehow worse for Raiders....I don't see it

 
massraider said:
Empty stadiums bad for everyone. 

The implication it's somehow worse for Raiders....I don't see it
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Every team isn’t directly tied to a massive hotel and gambling industry. 💡 

or did you think Vegas gave Mark Davis $700M out of the goodness of their hearts?

 
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Chadstroma said:
He is looking for anything snd everything to throw out poo on.
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Not at all. That’s a ridiculous characterization. 

I have been consistent in looking at the Raiders circumstances in Las Vegas. I was also highly complimentary to their Oakland / Bay Area fans numerous times throughout. 

Further, I said I “hoped I’m wrong” about it, but from past examples (Ravens) it will take time to build a base. And the unique circumstances of the Raiders now being tied directly to the hotel/travel & gaming industries could be impacted more dude to COVID19.

but hey, leave it to a RaIders fan to lack the capacity & maturity to objectively discuss their team & circumstances they’re in. You’re really helping to break the stereotypes about you folks.  

 
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Hot Sauce Guy said:
Not at all. That’s a ridiculous characterization. 

I have been consistent in looking at the Raiders circumstances in Las Vegas. I was also highly complimentary to their Oakland / Bay Area fans numerous times throughout. 

Further, I said I “hoped I’m wrong” about it, but from past examples (Ravens) it will take time to build a base. And the unique circumstances of the Raiders now being tied directly to the hotel/travel & gaming industries could be impacted more dude to COVID19.

but hey, leave it to a RaIders fan to lack the capacity & maturity to objectively discuss their team & circumstances they’re in. You’re really helping to break the stereotypes about you folks.  
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Please. You think you get to say you're objective, simply because you're not a fan? 

Pretty clear you think Oakland got screwed by mean old greedy Mark Davis, and are throwing out opinions, not ONE based in any kind of objective fact, to hypothesize that they won't draw . There is a long history of NFL teams moving, and filling their stadiums. A quick glance at sales of PSL's find that you might have a point:

PSL sales at Raiders’ Las Vegas Stadium soar $228M over projections

Whooooops.  My bad. 

So, local sales crushing projections, no local NFL team, nor one in it's history to compete against (Ravens had to deal with Colts fans), and NHL team killing it locally (hockey team. In the desert. Killing it.)

No one knows for sure, but at least we have data supporting the notion that Vegas will embrace the team. 

All you've got is feelings.

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
Not sure what ticket sales have to do with anything if they don’t allow fans in the seats. 
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The two seem entirely separate -- ticket sales = demand for the product. People are buying them in spite of knowing that the games might not allow fans, which IMO shows that the demand is that much heightened.

Hot Sauce Guy said:
Not at all. That’s a ridiculous characterization. 

but hey, leave it to a RaIders fan to lack the capacity & maturity to objectively discuss their team & circumstances they’re in. You’re really helping to break the stereotypes about you folks.  
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I know you to be a really level-headed and a super solid person to have discussion with, HSG -- one of the more even-keeled people I see in the pool that is able to see both sides of an argument and not hold convictions so tightly just in the interests of "winning" an argument. In the immortal words of Squirrely Dan, that's one of the things I appreciates about you.

I will say that the above is a bit much -- this is one of the more introspective group I've been involved with in terms of discussing the Raiders -- objectively, without homerisms, calling warts for what they are and challenging each others' opinions and generally learning from each other despite differences of opinions. That's the norm I've seen in these Raiders threads and from the Raider faithful here. This isn't reddit where even a slight suggestion that the Raiders won't be a 15 win team will get you downvoted. We encourage those opinions, and in fact, there have been times when I've been vocal that we've been too negative about this team, it's outlook, etc. (but I'm a pollyanna so there's that).

I get that you have an opinion about how faithful LVR fans will be, and myself and a few others have presented counter arguments and I think it's been interesting, but we're clearly not convincing the other side of anything. So instead of digging in on the point/continuing to bring it up, let's agree that we won't know until we know, and we should move on. 

 
If you followed the Oakland scenario, you would know Davis did everything he could to stay there. 

That Ronnie Lott group didn't have their game together, and Vegas made a great offer. It completely sucked that they left, but the ONLY way to get a new stadium was to move. The Oakland stadium was worst in the league, they HAD to.

Oakland made the right move not paying for a stadium, they shouldn't have. Davis isn't Kroenke, he couldn't build it with his own money. There's no villains here.

 
Mildly annoyed at the idea that Mark Davis held Oakland at gunpoint. 

Also, when looking back at how the NFL "screwed" the Raiders in LA, I have a warm and fuzzy feeling watching the entire LA situation unfold. Yeah, I think we'll stand pat with the hand we were dealt. I look forward to 9 home games a year (Chargers), and 10 when we play the Rams in LA.

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
The two seem entirely separate -- ticket sales = demand for the product. People are buying them in spite of knowing that the games might not allow fans, which IMO shows that the demand is that much heightened.

I know you to be a really level-headed and a super solid person to have discussion with, HSG -- one of the more even-keeled people I see in the pool that is able to see both sides of an argument and not hold convictions so tightly just in the interests of "winning" an argument. In the immortal words of Squirrely Dan, that's one of the things I appreciates about you.

I will say that the above is a bit much -- this is one of the more introspective group I've been involved with in terms of discussing the Raiders -- objectively, without homerisms, calling warts for what they are and challenging each others' opinions and generally learning from each other despite differences of opinions. That's the norm I've seen in these Raiders threads and from the Raider faithful here. This isn't reddit where even a slight suggestion that the Raiders won't be a 15 win team will get you downvoted. We encourage those opinions, and in fact, there have been times when I've been vocal that we've been too negative about this team, it's outlook, etc. (but I'm a pollyanna so there's that).

I get that you have an opinion about how faithful LVR fans will be, and myself and a few others have presented counter arguments and I think it's been interesting, but we're clearly not convincing the other side of anything. So instead of digging in on the point/continuing to bring it up, let's agree that we won't know until we know, and we should move on. 
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It was a level, enjoyable & thoughtful discussion until someone decided to project and mischaracterize my contributions to it.

my response was deliberately over the top to highlight my offense to such a “contribution”, in that I didn’t appreciate that mischaracterization in the slightest. It was a cheap shot, and more importantly, wasn’t remotely representative of what I’ve been saying in here. 

Especially in light of the fact that I've been particularly generous with my statements about Raiders fans, as more than half my friends count themselves among your brethren.

i will not throw the baby out with the bathwater though because of the snarky, misguided post of one of you. Y’all’s good people and my concerns about the logistics of opening a new stadium in that environment were from a place of fellowship, not “finding any excuse to crap on” your team.

i share your sentiment, and often enjoy these discussions. One bad apple can sometimes spoil a quality discussion it seems.  

 
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massraider said:
If you followed the Oakland scenario, you would know Davis did everything he could to stay there. 

That Ronnie Lott group didn't have their game together, and Vegas made a great offer. It completely sucked that they left, but the ONLY way to get a new stadium was to move. The Oakland stadium was worst in the league, they HAD to.

Oakland made the right move not paying for a stadium, they shouldn't have. Davis isn't Kroenke, he couldn't build it with his own money. There's no villains here.
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That’s probably fair.  

But the one point I’ll disagree with is that I did follow the Oakland scenario & I’m unconvinced that Mark wanted to stay, or made every effort to do so. 

but in the interest of fairness, it’s possible, likely even, that Mark’s lack of desire to stay could have had to do with the hand he was dealt. He is not the wealthiest owner - far from it. He didn’t have the $ to build, and Oakland sure as hell wasnt going to foot the bill, nor were they willing to sell him the land cheaply. 

A couple of times it seemed like things were close to working out - I thought the Ronnie Lott group had their stuff together & it came down to Mark’s unwillingness To give up a % of ownership. but I’ll take your word that it wasn’t as close as I’d read - that part I’m admittedly not as familiar with. 

so both things can be true - there’s no bad guy, and Mark Davis didn’t make the best of efforts to stay.

and if I put myself in his shoes, I likely wouldn’t have stayed either. It’s just such a gut punch to the fans, who I am familiar with since they’re my friends. Some are washing their hands of all things Raiders, feeling betrayed.

some share your enthusiasm for Vegas. And who knows, maybe they’ll be able to attract better talent with the move as well & restore the greatness that is the Raiders brand. 

Hopefully the timing of COVID doesn’t delay or hinder their Vegas resurgence. 

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
That’s probably fair.  

But the one point I’ll disagree with is that I did follow the Oakland scenario & I’m unconvinced that Mark wanted to stay, or made every effort to do so. 

but in the interest of fairness, it’s possible, likely even, that Mark’s lack of desire to stay could have had to do with the hand he was dealt. He is not the wealthiest owner - far from it. He didn’t have the $ to build, and Oakland sure as hell wasnt going to foot the bill, nor were they willing to sell him the land cheaply. 
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More feelings, with no facts.

 
massraider said:
Mildly annoyed at the idea that Mark Davis held Oakland at gunpoint. 

Also, when looking back at how the NFL "screwed" the Raiders in LA, I have a warm and fuzzy feeling watching the entire LA situation unfold. Yeah, I think we'll stand pat with the hand we were dealt. I look forward to 9 home games a year (Chargers), and 10 when we play the Rams in LA.
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Right there with you.

I don't think we can every really bottom out on who put in the most effort to stay or who was more genuine about it -- the Raiders or the city of Oakland. Hard to really mind-read motivations. It is clear to me that:

  • Oakland understandably had other fiduciary duties and priorities than kicking in their share of a $700M-$1B stadium. I get it, that revenue is easily justifiably better spent on social services, education, infrastructure where really needed. 
  • Raiders and Mark Davis did a lot of due diligence, offering and considering different proposals, etc. in order to keep the team in Oakland. For whatever reason, none were able to progress.This is not a move the team out in the middle of the night, leaving a middle finger to the city and its fans behind. 
  • Both sides equally had reasons to have the team leave; both sides entertained ways of staying. There were a lot of competing interests that also complicated that discussion (Oakland Athletics involvement was one).
  • Neither side can be blamed. In the end, the Raiders needed a new stadium. Chalk it up to pro sports in this day and age, but the one we had -- with torn up dirt midfields and poo literally raining down on people -- was neither up to par with today's flashier bring in the dough for the league levels, nor was it really safe for either fans or players as it continued to deteriorate.
  • No one likes to see this team move from Oakland. No one blames them for leaving either.
And yes, would love to see Kroenke and his Rams go up in financial flames given the outright and overt ways he and other owners have tried to continually screw us over the years.

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
You’re saying Mark had the money to build? 

Cmon. Mark Davis left Oakland because Mark Davis needed that deal to build the stadium. 

he specifically said that. I quoted it above. How is that not factual? 
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This is what you said: 

 I’m unconvinced that Mark wanted to stay, or made every effort to do so. 
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I am not sure either why you feel that way. Needing a new stadium was a fact, whether they stayed or left. Not sure how you interpret that fact as Mark Davis being disingenuous in his efforts to make that work out.

Again, not sure what the point of drawing this argument out is. If you don't agree, fine. Let's move on.

 
Anyone who thinks the Raiders are not going to draw in Vegas is out of their minds.  Vegas is a draw by itself in the winter months.  With that new stadium, the Raiders are set for ever.

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
This is what you said: 

I am not sure either why you feel that way. Needing a new stadium was a fact, whether they stayed or left. Not sure how you interpret that fact as Mark Davis being disingenuous in his efforts to make that work out.

Again, not sure what the point of drawing this argument out is. If you don't agree, fine. Let's move on.
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Yes, that’s what I said. 

and the fact seems to be that if Mark Davis truly wanted to stay in Oakland, the Raiders would still be in Oakland. 

Because this isn’t opening a fried chicken franchise where investors might be hard to attract, it’s an NFL franchise with billions to be made by building a stadium. 

The Ronnie Lott group was one possibility. I’m absolutely 10000% positive there would have been others had Davis truly wanted to explore building a stadium in the Bay Area. 

from everything I’ve read, he didn’t have the money and was unwilling to sell any % of his team to make that investment deal happen.

its not with any animosity that I describe this - I don’t care what Mark Davis does or doesn’t do. It’s his team. He took the $ in Vegas because he needs the money and obviously had no qualms about moving the team. 

I’m not sure why that’s such a controversial observation or why anyone would defend Mark Davis on it. It is what it is. 

 
Hairy Snowman said:
Anyone who thinks the Raiders are not going to draw in Vegas is out of their minds.  Vegas is a draw by itself in the winter months.  With that new stadium, the Raiders are set for ever.
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I’m not saying they won’t draw. I didn’t say they wouldn’t fill the stadium. The RaIders as an org are indeed set. It’s a cool looking stadium. I look forward to going there myself one day. 

I said they may not have a “home field advantage” for a while.

it’s a distinction worth mentioning, especially in light of the rabid insane fandom they were known for in Oakland. 
 

 
Perhaps it’s local reporting that gave me that impression @Stompin' Tom Connors.

articles like this one, from when Goodell backed the Ronnie Lott initiative, and Mark was described as uninterested in staying.

that may have given me that impression that he didn’t make the best of efforts to remain.  This & many articles like it, that described Mark Davis having his eye on moving long before negotiations were explored. That paints a very different picture from what some of y’all have been saying.

again - I have no animosity here. It’s Mark Davis’ team and I completely understand why he’d move, especially with the $ put on the table to incentivize that for him. But let’s not pretend he wanted to stay in Oakland as much as he wanted to move. 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/06/07/oakland-is-still-trying-to-keep-the-raiders-even-though-mark-davis-wants-to-move/

The problem is that, at this point, the Raiders won’t be inclined to approve any developer who would be developing a stadium in Oakland.

Davis has made that clear. Thus, anything that happens in Oakland will be happening against a backdrop that has Davis dropping Oakland as a potential location for his team.
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On a more different note, as a football fan and a gambler,  I am a zillion percent looking forward to going to a game there & experiencing the described in-seat gambling, where I can make a prop bet on every single play as they pop up on my phone app or tablet or however they’re going to implement that. It sounds like the greatest entertainment event ever, if well executed. 

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
 the fact seems to be that if Mark Davis truly wanted to stay in Oakland, the Raiders would still be in Oakland. 

Because this isn’t opening a fried chicken franchise where investors might be hard to attract, it’s an NFL franchise with billions to be made by building a stadium. 

The Ronnie Lott group was one possibility. I’m absolutely 10000% positive there would have been others had Davis truly wanted to explore building a stadium in the Bay Area. 

from everything I’ve read, he didn’t have the money and was unwilling to sell any % of his team to make that investment deal happen.

its not with any animosity that I describe this - I don’t care what Mark Davis does or doesn’t do. It’s his team. He took the $ in Vegas because he needs the money and obviously had no qualms about moving the team. 

I’m not sure why that’s such a controversial observation or why anyone would defend Mark Davis on it. It is what it is. 
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Are you saying that Davis -- or any other owner -- should simply take a disadvantageous deal, or one that doesn't optimize the long term health of the club? I think that's a naive POV both in terms of the way business operates in the real world, and especially the business of pro sports and the NFL.  

I am not sure why you are so seemingly hell-bent on proving Mark Davis is the bad guy here.

Hot Sauce Guy said:
Perhaps it’s local reporting that gave me that impression @Stompin' Tom Connors.

articles like this one, from when Goodell backed the Ronnie Lott initiative, and Mark was described as uninterested in staying.

that may have given me that impression that he didn’t make the best of efforts to remain.  This & many articles like it, that described Mark Davis having his eye on moving long before negotiations were explored. That paints a very different picture from what some of y’all have been saying.

again - I have no animosity here. It’s Mark Davis’ team and I completely understand why he’d move, especially with the $ put on the table to incentivize that for him. But let’s not pretend he wanted to stay in Oakland as much as he wanted to move. 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/06/07/oakland-is-still-trying-to-keep-the-raiders-even-though-mark-davis-wants-to-move/
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I can cite plenty of articles  that discuss how Davis tried to do everything he could to keep the team based in Oakland. You should know there are two sides to every story, and the truth is likely in between.

You've made your point, I get where you stand, I think you get where I and others stand.

At this point, I really don't know what's to gain or prove either way in continuing to discuss, so I'm moving on.

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
Are you saying that Davis -- or any other owner -- should simply take a disadvantageous deal, or one that doesn't optimize the long term health of the club? I think that's a naive POV both in terms of the way business operates in the real world, and especially the business of pro sports and the NFL.  
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no, but that’s a straw man fallacy since I actually did not say that in any way. 

I said the fact that Mark left is evidence enough that he didn’t truly want to stay. Because if he wanted to stay, he’d still be there. 

Now, whether he did that because he didn’t want to take a bad deal (as you assert) or through lack of desire to seek out a better one is certainly a subject worth exploration, but don’t prop up the first part of that argument & attribute it to me, thanks. 

I am not sure why you are so seemingly hell-bent on proving Mark Davis is the bad guy here.
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I’m not. I’ve said clearly that it has nothing to do with Mark Davis being the good guy or the bad guy. 

Mark Davis is the owner who moved his team to Las Vegas. That’s what he is. 

I can cite plenty of articles  that discuss how Davis tried to do everything he could to keep the team based in Oakland. You should know there are two sides to every story, and the truth is likely in between.

You've made your point, I get where you stand, I think you get where I and others stand.

At this point, I really don't know what's to gain or prove either way in continuing to discuss, so I'm moving on.
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And I never disputed that “the truth is likely in between.”

I even said I understood why Mark moved the team & took the money in Vegas. 

but that has nothing to do with whether mark made every effort to stay, and I don’t believe he did. Evidence supports that. 

with that I’ll bow out of this topic. I thought the point about whether or not the Las Vegas Raiders would enjoy a “home field advantage”’ was one worthy of discussion. Apparently it’s a wound too raw for most of you still. Maybe we can revisit in a couple years to see where that’s at. 

thanks to whoever it was that quoted my year-old post and dragged me back into raider land. It’s been fun. :)  

 
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Stinkin Ref said:
I would kind of expect local sales to be through the roof......they will have zero trouble unloading those tickets to visiting fans at a nice profit...
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No question for what tickets are available. But as I understand it there will also be some great package deals from local hotels as a % of ticket sales will be to concierge services to be used to attract gamblers/tourists. 

i can’t recall the article I’d read, but it was expected to be a sizable % (before COVID hit anyway). 

So for those NFL fans traveling to Vegas it’s probably smarter to look into that than to try to buy from said locals.  That’s certainly what I’ll do on my next trip out there once fans are able to safely be back in the seats. If upgrading to a suite for another $50 a night gets me a pair of decent tickets I’d totally do that.

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
No question for what tickets are available. But as I understand it there will also be some great package deals from local hotels as a % of ticket sales will be to concierge services to be used to attract gamblers/tourists. 

i can’t recall the article I’d read, but it was expected to be a sizable % (before COVID hit anyway). 

So for those NFL fans traveling to Vegas it’s probably smarter to look into that than to try to buy from said locals.  That’s certainly what I’ll do on my next trip out there once fans are able to safely be back in the seats. If upgrading to a suite for another $50 a night gets me a pair of decent tickets I’d totally do that.
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yeah I'm sure there will be some nice package deals......not sure they will be great "deals" necessarily.......the high rolling FBG types will enjoy the simplicity of those I'm sure.....but I believe there will also be a TON of non high rolling weekend warriors that will be looking to get in a quick trip with the boys on the cheap to see their team.....

 
Stinkin Ref said:
yeah I'm sure there will be some nice package deals......not sure they will be great "deals" necessarily.......the high rolling FBG types will enjoy the simplicity of those I'm sure.....but I believe there will also be a TON of non high rolling weekend warriors that will be looking to get in a quick trip with the boys on the cheap to see their team.....
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It’ll be interesting to see how the ticket sales all shake out. 1st year is going to be nutty since the novelty of the stadium will be the draw itself, the team somewhat peripheral except for the traveling Raiders fans who will be going for both. 

In Vegas the Hotels give away tickets to stuff to entice you to stay at their hotel. Presumably they get return on that investment in the form of  room upgrade packages, eating In the hotel’s restaurants & of course, gambling at their casinos. 

As such, and based on what I’d read a while back, I expect a LOT of season tickets to go to hotels. 

some of those might trickle down to the public where your group of weekend Warriors might score them on the cheap. Friend of a friend works at such and such hotel or LV tourism board & scored tix.

but those may be harder to come by than people think - IF the team is doing well. if the team isn’t doing well, sure - tickets will be ripe for the picking after that 1st year. 

But Vegas in particular presents a problem for cheap tickets in that it’s more likely to be a road game destination for fans of other teams. Could create some competition for those secondary market tickets.

just speculating wildly here - I know a block of tickets will go to local businesses, I just don’t know how big a block that is.

Like I said, that'll he interesting to watch as things develop. I honestly don’t know. I’m hoping I can score some by staying at X hotel with the right package. I’m not a big casino gambler & usually eat on the cheap when I’m there, so paying a little more For my room & scoring some tickets is pretty appealing. I’m excited to see the stadium. 

 
I didn’t grow up in CA so I don’t really care where they play honestly. I’ll root for them wherever I live and wherever they play. 
 

but with all the back and forth, Oak to LA, LA back to Oak, lawsuits, maybe back to LA, maybe San Antonio....I am SO HAPPY to finally have a fresh start in brand new digs. I know there’s great history with the Raiders but screw all that. I’m loving a FRESH START in modern stadium, in a new, exciting town that seems tailor made for the Raiders image. Vegas, baby!

 
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joey said:
I didn’t grow up in CA so I don’t really care where they play honestly. I’ll root for them wherever I live and wherever they play. 
 

but with all the back and forth, Oak to LA, LA back to Oak, lawsuits, maybe back to LA, maybe San Antonio....I am SO HAPPY to finally have a fresh start in brand new digs. I know there’s great history with the Raiders but screw all that. I’m loving a FRESH START in modern stadium, in a new, exciting town that seems tailor made for the Raiders image. Vegas, baby!
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It’s a cool stadium. Like I said, I look forward to seeing it. 

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
Not at all. That’s a ridiculous characterization. 

I have been consistent in looking at the Raiders circumstances in Las Vegas. I was also highly complimentary to their Oakland / Bay Area fans numerous times throughout. 

Further, I said I “hoped I’m wrong” about it, but from past examples (Ravens) it will take time to build a base. And the unique circumstances of the Raiders now being tied directly to the hotel/travel & gaming industries could be impacted more dude to COVID19.

but hey, leave it to a RaIders fan to lack the capacity & maturity to objectively discuss their team & circumstances they’re in. You’re really helping to break the stereotypes about you folks.  
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You come in to the Raider thread and anything and everything is absolute worst case scenario about the move to Vegas. You haven't shown objective discussion. 

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
The two seem entirely separate -- ticket sales = demand for the product. People are buying them in spite of knowing that the games might not allow fans, which IMO shows that the demand is that much heightened.

I know you to be a really level-headed and a super solid person to have discussion with, HSG -- one of the more even-keeled people I see in the pool that is able to see both sides of an argument and not hold convictions so tightly just in the interests of "winning" an argument. In the immortal words of Squirrely Dan, that's one of the things I appreciates about you.

I will say that the above is a bit much -- this is one of the more introspective group I've been involved with in terms of discussing the Raiders -- objectively, without homerisms, calling warts for what they are and challenging each others' opinions and generally learning from each other despite differences of opinions. That's the norm I've seen in these Raiders threads and from the Raider faithful here. This isn't reddit where even a slight suggestion that the Raiders won't be a 15 win team will get you downvoted. We encourage those opinions, and in fact, there have been times when I've been vocal that we've been too negative about this team, it's outlook, etc. (but I'm a pollyanna so there's that).

I get that you have an opinion about how faithful LVR fans will be, and myself and a few others have presented counter arguments and I think it's been interesting, but we're clearly not convincing the other side of anything. So instead of digging in on the point/continuing to bring it up, let's agree that we won't know until we know, and we should move on. 
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Did you just say we will not win 15 games?! Where is the downvote around these parts?!

 
massraider said:
Mildly annoyed at the idea that Mark Davis held Oakland at gunpoint. 

Also, when looking back at how the NFL "screwed" the Raiders in LA, I have a warm and fuzzy feeling watching the entire LA situation unfold. Yeah, I think we'll stand pat with the hand we were dealt. I look forward to 9 home games a year (Chargers), and 10 when we play the Rams in LA.
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For the record, I said over and over that the Chargers moving to LA was tbe absolute dumbest thing that they could do. 

Going to a market dominated by a team rival that regularly flooded your own home games in SD. A somewhat fickle fanbase in SD that would disown them for leaving. Moving into a stadium to be a tennant sharing that stadium with historic ties to LA though they were the "second" team. Playing in a rinky dink stadium while you wait and not even being able to fill that unless you were playing the Raiders. 

The Raiders going to Vegas was/is a great move. The Rams going back to LA was/is a great move. The Chargers moving to LA was the worst move for a team in the history of the league. 

I was adamant that if we moved to LA that it would be to our own stadium. I did not want to be a tenant like the Chargers ended up. The league knew though and Kroenke knew that if the Raiders moved back they would own the city and Kroenke's money talks. No way they would allow that but in the end, very happy with Vegas. 

Still getting use to LV though before Raiders.

 
Chadstroma said:
You come in to the Raider thread and anything and everything is absolute worst case scenario about the move to Vegas. You haven't shown objective discussion. 
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That is a blatantly false statement. 

you should really use the quote feature instead of misrepresenting what I've said. 

Maybe you’re just way too defensive about the raiders to be civil in discussing them. 

i complimented their fans multiple times. I’ve never been a “raider hater” as long as I’ve been a member here. Feel free to search back. 

i said I didn’t think Mark Davis did everything he could to stay in Oakland. I’m not the only human with this opinion.

i said I questioned whether they’d have a home field advantage.

neither of those things is objectively negative, much less “worst case scenario”. 

Again: we have a quote feature. There’s no need to lie about what I’ve said 

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
It was a level, enjoyable & thoughtful discussion until someone decided to project and mischaracterize my contributions to it.

my response was deliberately over the top to highlight my offense to such a “contribution”, in that I didn’t appreciate that mischaracterization in the slightest. It was a cheap shot, and more importantly, wasn’t remotely representative of what I’ve been saying in here. 

Especially in light of the fact that I've been particularly generous with my statements about Raiders fans, as more than half my friends count themselves among your brethren.

i will not throw the baby out with the bathwater though because of the snarky, misguided post of one of you. Y’all’s good people and my concerns about the logistics of opening a new stadium in that environment were from a place of fellowship, not “finding any excuse to crap on” your team.

i share your sentiment, and often enjoy these discussions. One bad apple can sometimes spoil a quality discussion it seems.  
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That is a whole lot of indignation for saying you are just look to poo on everything. 

When all you say is negative about the Vegas move and go out of your way to find something negative to say about any positive perspective about the move whether it is opinion or fact, you have to realize that some people will dismiss your contributions. 

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
Yes, that’s what I said. 

and the fact seems to be that if Mark Davis truly wanted to stay in Oakland, the Raiders would still be in Oakland. 

Because this isn’t opening a fried chicken franchise where investors might be hard to attract, it’s an NFL franchise with billions to be made by building a stadium. 

The Ronnie Lott group was one possibility. I’m absolutely 10000% positive there would have been others had Davis truly wanted to explore building a stadium in the Bay Area. 

from everything I’ve read, he didn’t have the money and was unwilling to sell any % of his team to make that investment deal happen.

its not with any animosity that I describe this - I don’t care what Mark Davis does or doesn’t do. It’s his team. He took the $ in Vegas because he needs the money and obviously had no qualms about moving the team. 

I’m not sure why that’s such a controversial observation or why anyone would defend Mark Davis on it. It is what it is. 
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Hey... you can either sell all your cars and valuables and build a half way decent home on your own dime or if you move to another town down the road have someone else pay for 75% of the home which will be nicer than what you would have had while keeping your cars and valuables. You pick. 

 
Chadstroma said:
That is a whole lot of indignation for saying you are just look to poo on everything. 

When all you say is negative about the Vegas move and go out of your way to find something negative to say about any positive perspective about the move whether it is opinion or fact, you have to realize that some people will dismiss your contributions. 
Click to expand...
Not hardly.  it’s me saying I don’t like when people lie about what I said.

as you have been doing repeatedly. 

again, we have a quote feature. You don’t need to misrepresent or mischaracterize something I’ve said.

it makes you look dishonest for it, and it also contributes nothing to the discussion. 

so again, please use the quote feature instead of mischaracterizing or lying. I think it’s a fair request, thanks. 

ill be placing you on ignore now. :yes:  

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
That is a blatantly false statement. 

you should really use the quote feature instead of misrepresenting what I've said. 

Maybe you’re just way too defensive about the raiders to be civil in discussing them. 

i complimented their fans multiple times. I’ve never been a “raider hater” as long as I’ve been a member here. Feel free to search back. 

i said I didn’t think Mark Davis did everything he could to stay in Oakland. I’m not the only human with this opinion.

i said I questioned whether they’d have a home field advantage.

neither of those things is objectively negative, much less “worst case scenario”. 

Again: we have a quote feature. There’s no need to lie about what I’ve said 
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What positives have you said about the move to Vegas? 

Being "generous" about Raider fans doesn't count even more so when it is used as a weapon aboug moving to Vegas as being poo.

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
Not hardly.  it’s me saying I don’t like when people lie about what I said.

as you have been doing repeatedly. 

again, we have a quote feature. You don’t need to misrepresent or mischaracterize something I’ve said.

it makes you look dishonest for it, and it also contributes nothing to the discussion. 

so again, please use the quote feature instead of mischaracterizing or lying. I think it’s a fair request, thanks. 

ill be placing you on ignore now. :yes:  
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How did I lie?! LOL

You have been nothing but negative aka poo on anything about the move to Vegas. 

Ignore. Ouch. My feelings are hurt.  And stuff. 

 
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joey said:
I didn’t grow up in CA so I don’t really care where they play honestly. I’ll root for them wherever I live and wherever they play. 
 

but with all the back and forth, Oak to LA, LA back to Oak, lawsuits, maybe back to LA, maybe San Antonio....I am SO HAPPY to finally have a fresh start in brand new digs. I know there’s great history with the Raiders but screw all that. I’m loving a FRESH START in modern stadium, in a new, exciting town that seems tailor made for the Raiders image. Vegas, baby!
Click to expand...
Quoting myself to move this thread to a FRESH START! :)  

 
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https://twitter.com/FieldYates/status/1262756647396614147?s=20

Prince Amukamara's contract with the Raiders: $50K signing bonus, $1.05M base salary, $87,500 Week 1 roster bonus and a cap charge of $887,500 (veteran salary benefit).

Holy schneikes that's a hell of a fantastic contract for us. Was paid $9MM last year. Likely not worth that but could easily had made noise to be paid in the $3-5MM.

Cheaper than Eli Apple and a hell of a better player. Let's hope he and the rest of our old vets continue to play at a high level.

God I love this team and what it may be in the coming year. 

 
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At the beginning of 2020, the Raiders sold out all 65,000 PSL’s for their new stadium. The Rams sold only 40,000 and the Chargers sold only 25,000 of a total 70,000 seats.

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
https://twitter.com/FieldYates/status/1262756647396614147?s=20

Prince Amukamara's contract with the Raiders: $50K signing bonus, $1.05M base salary, $87,500 Week 1 roster bonus and a cap charge of $887,500 (veteran salary benefit).

Holy schneikes that's a hell of a fantastic contract for us. Was paid $9MM last year. Likely not worth that but could easily had made noise to be paid in the $3-5MM.

Cheaper than that but Eli and a hell of a better player. Let's hope he and the rest of our old vets continue to play at a high level.

God I love this team and what it may be in the coming year. 
Click to expand...
That is one hell of a deal for him. Not worth the $9 million but worth more than what is it $1.1 total?

 
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