2023 Las Vegas Raiders - RIP Jack - one of the greatest Super Bowl moments ever (4 Viewers)

[Hankmoody]

Watch the video from directly behind the kicker in slow motion and pause it just as the ball moves off the turf, jack Jones moves forward at the exact same time , it was timed beautifully . The plays this guy makes regarding his timing ,you can tell he studies his films .

Again, we can't where he is on the line. If he's in the neutral zone at the snap he's offsides. We can't see the ball and where he's lined up in relation to it at the same time in any of these shots. Maybe we got screwed and maybe we didn't, it makes no difference now. We all know we don't get the benefit of these calls too often and we get the raw end way way more often than not.

 

[ICON211]

Watch the video from directly behind the kicker in slow motion and pause it just as the ball moves off the turf, jack Jones moves forward at the exact same time , it was timed beautifully . The plays this guy makes regarding his timing ,you can tell he studies his films .

Again, we can't where he is on the line. If he's in the neutral zone at the snap he's offsides. We can't see the ball and where he's lined up in relation to it at the same time in any of these shots. Maybe we got screwed and maybe we didn't, it makes no difference now. We all know we don't get the benefit of these calls too often and we get the raw end way way more often than not.

Well you can see he did check with the ref to see if he was lined up ok. We can't see if the ref gave him acknowledgement that he was ok. You're right thought it's over with. Looking forward to next season.

 

[Bruno2]

Watch the video from directly behind the kicker in slow motion and pause it just as the ball moves off the turf, jack Jones moves forward at the exact same time , it was timed beautifully . The plays this guy makes regarding his timing ,you can tell he studies his films .

Again, we can't where he is on the line. If he's in the neutral zone at the snap he's offsides. We can't see the ball and where he's lined up in relation to it at the same time in any of these shots. Maybe we got screwed and maybe we didn't, it makes no difference now. We all know we don't get the benefit of these calls too often and we get the raw end way way more often than not.

Officiating so bad around the league right now it’s hard to single out just the Raiders lately. Imagine if what happened to the Lions, happened to the Raiders… The tinfoil hats would be out in full force in the Raider Nation.

 

[ZADO]

Watch the video from directly behind the kicker in slow motion and pause it just as the ball moves off the turf, jack Jones moves forward at the exact same time , it was timed beautifully . The plays this guy makes regarding his timing ,you can tell he studies his films .

Again, we can't where he is on the line. If he's in the neutral zone at the snap he's offsides. We can't see the ball and where he's lined up in relation to it at the same time in any of these shots. Maybe we got screwed and maybe we didn't, it makes no difference now. We all know we don't get the benefit of these calls too often and we get the raw end way way more often than not.

Ya i agree, water under the bridge , but the bridge is broken and needs to be fixed .

 

[DocHolliday]

Jacobs is one year removed from looking like the NFL’s best running back and is still just 25 years old. But it’s difficult to project anything but a disappointing free agent contract, especially in a crowded RB market that may include Austin Ekeler, Saquon Barkley, Tony Pollard, D’Andre Swift, Derrick Henry, and others.

I think they tell him they want him back but can't do the FT. Go hit the market, get your offfers, come back, and we'll beat the best by 20%. RB are so hosed right now I don't see him getting more than 7-8M a year on the market. He's worth 9M to us for the continuity and the message that we're in it to win it.

Jacobs is gone. It is too easy to find a decent RB.

 

[ZADO]

The debates on the internet are wild.

Who should the 2024 HC be ?

Jim Harbaugh or AP ?

With JH the Raiders get a lot of winning experience but probably a complete dismantling of the current coaching staff .

With AP the Raiders keep a players coach whos learning on the job but has galvanized the the team and the entire organization and the fan base with a RAIDERS culture of football not seen since Art Shell coached the Raiders.

Personally id love to see JH come in and be the head coach , but retain AP and the entire defensive coaching staff . The best of both worlds .

If we cant have both id rather the Raiders stay the course with AP and build around him .

 

[kaso]

Jacobs is one year removed from looking like the NFL’s best running back and is still just 25 years old. But it’s difficult to project anything but a disappointing free agent contract, especially in a crowded RB market that may include Austin Ekeler, Saquon Barkley, Tony Pollard, D’Andre Swift, Derrick Henry, and others.

I think they tell him they want him back but can't do the FT. Go hit the market, get your offfers, come back, and we'll beat the best by 20%. RB are so hosed right now I don't see him getting more than 7-8M a year on the market. He's worth 9M to us for the continuity and the message that we're in it to win it.

Jacobs is gone. It is too easy to find a decent RB.

I'm curious to see how it plays out. I am starting to think that the RBs are seeing the writing on the wall and may start having their salary expectations/demands come into line with how the league sees the position. Have to wonder if Jacobs doesn't end up feeling that he won't be able to make more elsewhere, maybe the pending coaching decision plays into that as well. When Jacobs was healthy, AP made his role a priority.

 

[ZADO]

Jacobs is one year removed from looking like the NFL’s best running back and is still just 25 years old. But it’s difficult to project anything but a disappointing free agent contract, especially in a crowded RB market that may include Austin Ekeler, Saquon Barkley, Tony Pollard, D’Andre Swift, Derrick Henry, and others.

I think they tell him they want him back but can't do the FT. Go hit the market, get your offfers, come back, and we'll beat the best by 20%. RB are so hosed right now I don't see him getting more than 7-8M a year on the market. He's worth 9M to us for the continuity and the message that we're in it to win it.

Jacobs is gone. It is too easy to find a decent RB.

I'm curious to see how it plays out. I am starting to think that the RBs are seeing the writing on the wall and may start having their salary expectations/demands come into line with how the league sees the position. Have to wonder if Jacobs doesn't end up feeling that he won't be able to make more elsewhere, maybe the pending coaching decision plays into that as well. When Jacobs was healthy, AP made his role a priority.

I mean how many millions is enough ? Jacobs is rich beyond his dreams , at some point its the situation thats important , being happy at your job and with the people you work with and happy with your boss .

 

[LawFitz]

Jacobs is gone. It is too easy to find a decent RB.

It's not easy to find a 2022 Jacobs RB, despite the contrary chatter.

 

[LawFitz]

being happy at your job and with the people you work with and happy with your boss

Do you think any Raider, Jacobs or otherwise, fits this description?

 

[LawFitz]

All of you calling for the day that Josh Jacobs isn't wearing Silver & Black have a rude Red & Yellow Jacobs awakening coming.

 

[joey]

The debates on the internet are wild.

Who should the 2024 HC be ?

Jim Harbaugh or AP ?

With JH the Raiders get a lot of winning experience but probably a complete dismantling of the current coaching staff .

With AP the Raiders keep a players coach whos learning on the job but has galvanized the the team and the entire organization and the fan base with a RAIDERS culture of football not seen since Art Shell coached the Raiders.

Personally id love to see JH come in and be the head coach , but retain AP and the entire defensive coaching staff . The best of both worlds .

If we cant have both id rather the Raiders stay the course with AP and build around him .

No retreads please. Love the fresh start with a passionate unknown who seems to be rallying the troops. Stick with AP.

 

[ZADO]

being happy at your job and with the people you work with and happy with your boss

Do you think any Raider, Jacobs or otherwise, fits this description?

This group sure does love their coach

 

[Bruno2]

being happy at your job and with the people you work with and happy with your boss

Do you think any Raider, Jacobs or otherwise, fits this description?

This group sure does love their coach

They loved Coach B too. It’ll be interesting to see what Mark does this time. Who his advisors (Brady?) recommend, if Champ gets the job because that’ll make a difference in who the HC will be as well. I imagine a guy like Harbaugh is going to want some control over personnel, way more so than AP. I personally hope he sticks with Champ, AP and PG then bring in a more experienced OC.

 

[DocHolliday]

Jacobs is gone. It is too easy to find a decent RB.

It's not easy to find a 2022 Jacobs RB, despite the contrary chatter.

2022 Jacobs was great and it isn’t easy to find the NFL rushing champ. Having one great RB isn’t necessary in today’s NFL and if Jacobs isn’t willing to sign a fair deal for LV, he should be released. The Raiders are finally making progress at building a team but still need a bunch of pieces. Smart business decisions must be made even if we don’t like them personally.

I’m not worried about KC. Mahomes is still incredible but he can’t do it alone as seen this season. They have their own issues to deal with at TE and WR. Their o line looked poor too. LV needs to focus on building their team and not be concerned about where players may end up.

 

[32 Counter Pass]

White has been more than adequate at RB since stepping in for Jacobs. Based on Jonathan Taylor’s contract, my guess is Jacob’s will be looking for something in the neighborhood of $15 million per season. That does not feel like a wise allocation of their salary.

BTW, I think Jacob’s ultimately ends up in Dallas. He is the perfect replacement for them.

 

[Chadstroma]

Watch the video from directly behind the kicker in slow motion and pause it just as the ball moves off the turf, jack Jones moves forward at the exact same time , it was timed beautifully . The plays this guy makes regarding his timing ,you can tell he studies his films .

Again, we can't where he is on the line. If he's in the neutral zone at the snap he's offsides. We can't see the ball and where he's lined up in relation to it at the same time in any of these shots. Maybe we got screwed and maybe we didn't, it makes no difference now. We all know we don't get the benefit of these calls too often and we get the raw end way way more often than not.

Officiating so bad around the league right now it’s hard to single out just the Raiders lately. Imagine if what happened to the Lions, happened to the Raiders… The tinfoil hats would be out in full force in the Raider Nation.

The NFL has to step up and take real action. They need to guard the game so it doesn't become the laughing stock that the NBA is. I don't watch the NBA almost at all now and it is largely due to the rule changes and officiating. It isn't basketball anymore... it is street ball. Call me a purist but that just isn't basketball. I tell my kids on the team I coach to watch college ball because that is where they will see the fundamentals of the game and how the game is supposed to be played. NFL is moving towards the same crap as the NBA and needs to act.

 

[Chadstroma]

All of you calling for the day that Josh Jacobs isn't wearing Silver & Black have a rude Red & Yellow Jacobs awakening coming.

I like Jacobs. I would love to keep him.

I don't think Jacobs fits what KC wants in a back though. Serious question, has KC ever gone out and got a slower power type back that Jacobs is? It seems to me that they put a premium on quicker/faster backs. I am thinking from Philly to KC and I can't think of anyone under that is similar to Jacobs under Reid. Maybe I am missing someone though.

 

[Chadstroma]

being happy at your job and with the people you work with and happy with your boss

Do you think any Raider, Jacobs or otherwise, fits this description?

This group sure does love their coach

They loved Coach B too. It’ll be interesting to see what Mark does this time. Who his advisors (Brady?) recommend, if Champ gets the job because that’ll make a difference in who the HC will be as well. I imagine a guy like Harbaugh is going to want some control over personnel, way more so than AP. I personally hope he sticks with Champ, AP and PG then bring in a more experienced OC.

There is some chatter about mutual interest with Harbaugh. I think if anyone ends up unseating AP it will be him. Harbaugh is the shiny new toy like McD was last go around. I also saw something about Kellen freaking Moore leading the odds right now. I looked up the list on bookies.com and it has this, but it is hard for me to take it seriously when AP is part of the field.

Kellen Moore (Chargers OC) +350 (22.2%)

Ben Johnson (Lions OC) +400 (20.0%)

Frank Smith (Dolphins OC) +400 (20.0%)

Bill Belichick (Patriots HC) +575 (14.8%)

Jim Harbaugh (Michigan HC) +750 (11.8%)

Raheem Morris (Rams DC) +1400 (7.7%)

Eric Bieniemy (Chiefs OC) +1500 (6.3%)

Dan Quinn (Cowboys DC) +1800 (5.3%)

Mike Vrabel (Titans HC) +1800 (5.3%)

The Field +1500 (6.3%)

I really think that the favorite has to be AP. I don't think Mark will want to stray from the players wishes again after that debacle. I think hiring Champ and AP perm is not on the right move for football but it is also the good PR move as well for both the players, fans and league. Then go shopping for a new OC. Hopefully retain Graham.

 

[Bruno2]

being happy at your job and with the people you work with and happy with your boss

Do you think any Raider, Jacobs or otherwise, fits this description?

This group sure does love their coach

They loved Coach B too. It’ll be interesting to see what Mark does this time. Who his advisors (Brady?) recommend, if Champ gets the job because that’ll make a difference in who the HC will be as well. I imagine a guy like Harbaugh is going to want some control over personnel, way more so than AP. I personally hope he sticks with Champ, AP and PG then bring in a more experienced OC.

There is some chatter about mutual interest with Harbaugh. I think if anyone ends up unseating AP it will be him. Harbaugh is the shiny new toy like McD was last go around. I also saw something about Kellen freaking Moore leading the odds right now. I looked up the list on bookies.com and it has this, but it is hard for me to take it seriously when AP is part of the field.

Kellen Moore (Chargers OC) +350 (22.2%)

Ben Johnson (Lions OC) +400 (20.0%)

Frank Smith (Dolphins OC) +400 (20.0%)

Bill Belichick (Patriots HC) +575 (14.8%)

Jim Harbaugh (Michigan HC) +750 (11.8%)

Raheem Morris (Rams DC) +1400 (7.7%)

Eric Bieniemy (Chiefs OC) +1500 (6.3%)

Dan Quinn (Cowboys DC) +1800 (5.3%)

Mike Vrabel (Titans HC) +1800 (5.3%)

The Field +1500 (6.3%)

I really think that the favorite has to be AP. I don't think Mark will want to stray from the players wishes again after that debacle. I think hiring Champ and AP perm is not on the right move for football but it is also the good PR move as well for both the players, fans and league. Then go shopping for a new OC. Hopefully retain Graham.

If he goes with someone like Harbaugh it’s a good chance we’re looking at another rebuild.
Sticking with Champ, AP and PG at the most keeps continuity and stability. Bring in a new OC and a QB and revamp the offense and tweak the Oline. I don’t care what QB, Cousins, Fields, Murray or a high draft pick, just someone who can beat out AOC and make him the QB2 which is where he belongs at this point in his career.

 

[BigJim®]

Marginally surprised at disappointment in AOC in this thread. I guess fanbase history/perspective is everything - but if the Vikes had this type of rookie season from Jaren Hall, the fanbase would be anointing him QB of the future. Hell, they did for Christian Ponder and Tarvaris Jackson.

 

[Chadstroma]

Marginally surprised at disappointment in AOC in this thread. I guess fanbase history/perspective is everything - but if the Vikes had this type of rookie season from Jaren Hall, the fanbase would be anointing him QB of the future. Hell, they did for Christian Ponder and Tarvaris Jackson.

It is the NFL. There is no patience. It is be a star now or you suck.

 

[ZADO]

being happy at your job and with the people you work with and happy with your boss

Do you think any Raider, Jacobs or otherwise, fits this description?

This group sure does love their coach

They loved Coach B too. It’ll be interesting to see what Mark does this time. Who his advisors (Brady?) recommend, if Champ gets the job because that’ll make a difference in who the HC will be as well. I imagine a guy like Harbaugh is going to want some control over personnel, way more so than AP. I personally hope he sticks with Champ, AP and PG then bring in a more experienced OC.

There is some chatter about mutual interest with Harbaugh. I think if anyone ends up unseating AP it will be him. Harbaugh is the shiny new toy like McD was last go around. I also saw something about Kellen freaking Moore leading the odds right now. I looked up the list on bookies.com and it has this, but it is hard for me to take it seriously when AP is part of the field.

Kellen Moore (Chargers OC) +350 (22.2%)

Ben Johnson (Lions OC) +400 (20.0%)

Frank Smith (Dolphins OC) +400 (20.0%)

Bill Belichick (Patriots HC) +575 (14.8%)

Jim Harbaugh (Michigan HC) +750 (11.8%)

Raheem Morris (Rams DC) +1400 (7.7%)

Eric Bieniemy (Chiefs OC) +1500 (6.3%)

Dan Quinn (Cowboys DC) +1800 (5.3%)

Mike Vrabel (Titans HC) +1800 (5.3%)

The Field +1500 (6.3%)

I really think that the favorite has to be AP. I don't think Mark will want to stray from the players wishes again after that debacle. I think hiring Champ and AP perm is not on the right move for football but it is also the good PR move as well for both the players, fans and league. Then go shopping for a new OC. Hopefully retain Graham.

If he goes with someone like Harbaugh it’s a good chance we’re looking at another rebuild.
Sticking with Champ, AP and PG at the most keeps continuity and stability. Bring in a new OC and a QB and revamp the offense and tweak the Oline. I don’t care what QB, Cousins, Fields, Murray or a high draft pick, just someone who can beat out AOC and make him the QB2 which is where he belongs at this point in his career.

What would Al do ?

I think we all know he would LOVE AP

 

[DocHolliday]

Marginally surprised at disappointment in AOC in this thread. I guess fanbase history/perspective is everything - but if the Vikes had this type of rookie season from Jaren Hall, the fanbase would be anointing him QB of the future. Hell, they did for Christian Ponder and Tarvaris Jackson.

It is the NFL. There is no patience. It is be a star now or you suck.

AOC isn’t bad but he isn’t even Carr. That is all you need to know.

 

[BigJim®]

Marginally surprised at disappointment in AOC in this thread. I guess fanbase history/perspective is everything - but if the Vikes had this type of rookie season from Jaren Hall, the fanbase would be anointing him QB of the future. Hell, they did for Christian Ponder and Tarvaris Jackson.

It is the NFL. There is no patience. It is be a star now or you suck.

AOC isn’t bad but he isn’t even Carr. That is all you need to know.

Not as good as a 10 year vet as a rookie? Yeah, agreed. I wouldn't expect him to be. OTOH I think I read he'd only thrown 1 INT in past 5 starts, so maybe its debatable.

 

[kaso]

Marginally surprised at disappointment in AOC in this thread. I guess fanbase history/perspective is everything - but if the Vikes had this type of rookie season from Jaren Hall, the fanbase would be anointing him QB of the future. Hell, they did for Christian Ponder and Tarvaris Jackson.

It is the NFL. There is no patience. It is be a star now or you suck.

AOC isn’t bad but he isn’t even Carr. That is all you need to know.

This got me thinking wonder how Carr performed his first year. IIRC, he had the full training camp? (but could easily be mistaken). Carr certainly didn't have a HC/OC change mid season.

Rookie year vs Rookie Year, the slight edge goes to O'Connell.

Rk	Player	Age	From	To	G	GS	Cmp	Att	Inc	Cmp%	Yds	TD	Int	Pick6	TD%	Int%	Rate	Sk	Yds	Sk%	Y/A	AY/A	ANY/A	Y/C	AV	FantPt
1	Derek Carr	23	2014	2014	16	16	348	599	251	58.1	3270	21	12	1	3.5	2.0	76.6	24	149	3.85	5.5	5.26	4.82	9.4	5	192.0
2	Aidan O'Connell	25	2023	2023	10	9	193	312	119	61.9	1974	10	7	0	3.2	2.2	81.3	22	159	6.59	6.3	5.96	5.09	10.2
	O'Connell : Avg to 16						308	499	191		3158	16	11

*3rd row is taking O'Connells game average across 10 games and to calculate a 16 game period. Those numbers would be better as he didn't play the full 10 games. Granted I don't know if Carr played all 16 either.

In Carr's rookie season the Raiders when 3-13
O'Connell is credited with a 9 game record of 4-5.

Edit: Also safe to say that Carr didn't go 3 quarters in the same game without completing a pass. Ha!

 

[Chadstroma]

O'Connell is a very accurate QB. He has shown me that he is intelligent and has a high football IQ. That is the kind of stuff that made Brady and Brees greats. Am I saying he can be that same level? Not really. But that is the type of QB he is.

He has an adequate arm and he is one of the least mobile QB's in the NFL right now. Arm strength and mobility. These are the sexy things that the average fan wants to see because it is flashy. He is average or sucky in them. So, he will get lot's of downgrades just because of that.

I will say this.... if O'Connell was in SF and Purdy was with us. I think O'Connell would be lighting it up even more than Purdy is and Purdy would struggle more than O'Connell has. My point isn't to bash Purdy or even to say O'Connell is the answer for us but that the right system using his strengths can flourish in the NFL.

 

[joey]

O'Connell is a very accurate QB. He has shown me that he is intelligent and has a high football IQ. That is the kind of stuff that made Brady and Brees greats. Am I saying he can be that same level? Not really. But that is the type of QB he is.

He has an adequate arm and he is one of the least mobile QB's in the NFL right now. Arm strength and mobility. These are the sexy things that the average fan wants to see because it is flashy. He is average or sucky in them. So, he will get lot's of downgrades just because of that.

I will say this.... if O'Connell was in SF and Purdy was with us. I think O'Connell would be lighting it up even more than Purdy is and Purdy would struggle more than O'Connell has. My point isn't to bash Purdy or even to say O'Connell is the answer for us but that the right system using his strengths can flourish in the NFL.

This is an all time reach.
Purdy’s mobility and ability to extend plays are a major part of why he’s excelling for the 9ers and creating many highlight reel plays.
In Purdy’s first couple of games starting with the 9ers he’s shown more than AOC might ever show.
Not writing off AOC at all but that comparison is a huge stretch for me.

 

[Chadstroma]

O'Connell is a very accurate QB. He has shown me that he is intelligent and has a high football IQ. That is the kind of stuff that made Brady and Brees greats. Am I saying he can be that same level? Not really. But that is the type of QB he is.

He has an adequate arm and he is one of the least mobile QB's in the NFL right now. Arm strength and mobility. These are the sexy things that the average fan wants to see because it is flashy. He is average or sucky in them. So, he will get lot's of downgrades just because of that.

I will say this.... if O'Connell was in SF and Purdy was with us. I think O'Connell would be lighting it up even more than Purdy is and Purdy would struggle more than O'Connell has. My point isn't to bash Purdy or even to say O'Connell is the answer for us but that the right system using his strengths can flourish in the NFL.

This is an all time reach.
Purdy’s mobility and ability to extend plays are a major part of why he’s excelling for the 9ers and creating many highlight reel plays.
In Purdy’s first couple of games starting with the 9ers he’s shown more than AOC might ever show.
Not writing off AOC at all but that comparison is a huge stretch for me.

You can have you opinion and I am aware that mine isn't a safe one.

Jimmy G, not overly mobile. Average accuracy. Above average intelligence/football IQ. Below average arm. Did well.

Trey Lance. More mobility than Purdy. Great arm. Potentially below average or average football IQ. Below average accuracy. Struggled.

The important part of being a QB under the Niner system is making good, quick decisions with accurate throws and then letting the playmakers do their thing. That is exactly what O'Connell's strength's are. Mobility isn't a bad thing but it isn't crucial there either.

The biggest mistake in football is thinking a good player is a good player when reality is that a good fit for a good player makes a good player. Purdy is a good fit and he has the added benefit of having a good amount of talent around him. O'Connell excels even more at what the Niner offense thrives off of at the QB position.

I said it over and over about Jimmy G before we brought him over. My only mistake was thinking he could run McD's system decently well enough to cover up his deficiencies. I was wrong.

 

[joey]

O'Connell is a very accurate QB. He has shown me that he is intelligent and has a high football IQ. That is the kind of stuff that made Brady and Brees greats. Am I saying he can be that same level? Not really. But that is the type of QB he is.

He has an adequate arm and he is one of the least mobile QB's in the NFL right now. Arm strength and mobility. These are the sexy things that the average fan wants to see because it is flashy. He is average or sucky in them. So, he will get lot's of downgrades just because of that.

I will say this.... if O'Connell was in SF and Purdy was with us. I think O'Connell would be lighting it up even more than Purdy is and Purdy would struggle more than O'Connell has. My point isn't to bash Purdy or even to say O'Connell is the answer for us but that the right system using his strengths can flourish in the NFL.

This is an all time reach.
Purdy’s mobility and ability to extend plays are a major part of why he’s excelling for the 9ers and creating many highlight reel plays.
In Purdy’s first couple of games starting with the 9ers he’s shown more than AOC might ever show.
Not writing off AOC at all but that comparison is a huge stretch for me.

You can have you opinion and I am aware that mine isn't a safe one.

Jimmy G, not overly mobile. Average accuracy. Above average intelligence/football IQ. Below average arm. Did well.

Trey Lance. More mobility than Purdy. Great arm. Potentially below average or average football IQ. Below average accuracy. Struggled.

The important part of being a QB under the Niner system is making good, quick decisions with accurate throws and then letting the playmakers do their thing. That is exactly what O'Connell's strength's are. Mobility isn't a bad thing but it isn't crucial there either.

The biggest mistake in football is thinking a good player is a good player when reality is that a good fit for a good player makes a good player. Purdy is a good fit and he has the added benefit of having a good amount of talent around him. O'Connell excels even more at what the Niner offense thrives off of at the QB position.

I said it over and over about Jimmy G before we brought him over. My only mistake was thinking he could run McD's system decently well enough to cover up his deficiencies. I was wrong.

I love your optimism re: O’Connell.

 

[ICON211]

I will say this.... if O'Connell was in SF and Purdy was with us. I think O'Connell would be lighting it up even more than Purdy is and Purdy would struggle more than O'Connell has. My point isn't to bash Purdy or even to say O'Connell is the answer for us but that the right system using his strengths can flourish in the NFL.

I don't agree with this at all. One of Purdy's greatest, if not greatest, strength has been throwing with anticipation. He throws the ball before guys get out of their breaks, into opens windows guys have not yet gotten to, etc. I have seen the opposite from AOC. He has held the ball too long far too often waiting for guys to be wide open before he rips it. I'm not saying he sucks, but he's looked like a fourth round rookie a lot of the time. Purdy has almost never looked like a 7th round rookie. AOC can certainly develop and be a good QB and some of Purdy's success is due to where he plays, but I can't see how AOC would be better than Purdy if they were flipped.

 

[DocHolliday]

Marginally surprised at disappointment in AOC in this thread. I guess fanbase history/perspective is everything - but if the Vikes had this type of rookie season from Jaren Hall, the fanbase would be anointing him QB of the future. Hell, they did for Christian Ponder and Tarvaris Jackson.

It is the NFL. There is no patience. It is be a star now or you suck.

AOC isn’t bad but he isn’t even Carr. That is all you need to know.

Not as good as a 10 year vet as a rookie? Yeah, agreed. I wouldn't expect him to be. OTOH I think I read he'd only thrown 1 INT in past 5 starts, so maybe it’s debatable.

So you think AOC is the QB for the Raiders in 2024? AOC isn’t horrible but he doesn’t look like a top 10 QB in the making either. He needs at least a year of a development to maybe be an average starting QB but is probably a solid backup.

Would anyone not trade AOC for Purdy?

Anyone think the Raiders are not drafting a QB in the first round of the draft?

 

[massraider]

Anyone think the Raiders are not drafting a QB in the first round of the draft?

I'm not sure.
But it's not because I think Super Trooper is the answer.

I think there's some guys that might shake loose, like Cousins, Fields, Kyler. I think there's a TON of young QBs coming out, and there could be a 2nd round guy as well.

Lot of options, and it's early.

The lack of mobility, and the age of AOC, makes me think we aren't giving him the job next year

 

[Chadstroma]

Marginally surprised at disappointment in AOC in this thread. I guess fanbase history/perspective is everything - but if the Vikes had this type of rookie season from Jaren Hall, the fanbase would be anointing him QB of the future. Hell, they did for Christian Ponder and Tarvaris Jackson.

It is the NFL. There is no patience. It is be a star now or you suck.

AOC isn’t bad but he isn’t even Carr. That is all you need to know.

Not as good as a 10 year vet as a rookie? Yeah, agreed. I wouldn't expect him to be. OTOH I think I read he'd only thrown 1 INT in past 5 starts, so maybe it’s debatable.

So you think AOC is the QB for the Raiders in 2024? AOC isn’t horrible but he doesn’t look like a top 10 QB in the making either. He needs at least a year of a development to maybe be an average starting QB but is probably a solid backup.

Would anyone not trade AOC for Purdy?

Anyone think the Raiders are not drafting a QB in the first round of the draft?

I wouldn't trade AOC for Purdy. I don't think Purdy would thrive in most other systems.

That being said, I am not saying AOC is the answer for us either. I am just saying that he can develop further and in the right system be a true starter in the NFL. Or he could end up being a career backup.

 

[Chadstroma]

O'Connell is a very accurate QB. He has shown me that he is intelligent and has a high football IQ. That is the kind of stuff that made Brady and Brees greats. Am I saying he can be that same level? Not really. But that is the type of QB he is.

He has an adequate arm and he is one of the least mobile QB's in the NFL right now. Arm strength and mobility. These are the sexy things that the average fan wants to see because it is flashy. He is average or sucky in them. So, he will get lot's of downgrades just because of that.

I will say this.... if O'Connell was in SF and Purdy was with us. I think O'Connell would be lighting it up even more than Purdy is and Purdy would struggle more than O'Connell has. My point isn't to bash Purdy or even to say O'Connell is the answer for us but that the right system using his strengths can flourish in the NFL.

This is an all time reach.
Purdy’s mobility and ability to extend plays are a major part of why he’s excelling for the 9ers and creating many highlight reel plays.
In Purdy’s first couple of games starting with the 9ers he’s shown more than AOC might ever show.
Not writing off AOC at all but that comparison is a huge stretch for me.

You can have you opinion and I am aware that mine isn't a safe one.

Jimmy G, not overly mobile. Average accuracy. Above average intelligence/football IQ. Below average arm. Did well.

Trey Lance. More mobility than Purdy. Great arm. Potentially below average or average football IQ. Below average accuracy. Struggled.

The important part of being a QB under the Niner system is making good, quick decisions with accurate throws and then letting the playmakers do their thing. That is exactly what O'Connell's strength's are. Mobility isn't a bad thing but it isn't crucial there either.

The biggest mistake in football is thinking a good player is a good player when reality is that a good fit for a good player makes a good player. Purdy is a good fit and he has the added benefit of having a good amount of talent around him. O'Connell excels even more at what the Niner offense thrives off of at the QB position.

I said it over and over about Jimmy G before we brought him over. My only mistake was thinking he could run McD's system decently well enough to cover up his deficiencies. I was wrong.

I love your optimism re: O’Connell.

It really isn't optimisim. If I was optimistic, I would be saying AOC is our QB and we should not draft or sign a FA QB. I am not saying that.

 

[Bruno2]

O'Connell is a very accurate QB. He has shown me that he is intelligent and has a high football IQ. That is the kind of stuff that made Brady and Brees greats. Am I saying he can be that same level? Not really. But that is the type of QB he is.

He has an adequate arm and he is one of the least mobile QB's in the NFL right now. Arm strength and mobility. These are the sexy things that the average fan wants to see because it is flashy. He is average or sucky in them. So, he will get lot's of downgrades just because of that.

I will say this.... if O'Connell was in SF and Purdy was with us. I think O'Connell would be lighting it up even more than Purdy is and Purdy would struggle more than O'Connell has. My point isn't to bash Purdy or even to say O'Connell is the answer for us but that the right system using his strengths can flourish in the NFL.

This is an all time reach.
Purdy’s mobility and ability to extend plays are a major part of why he’s excelling for the 9ers and creating many highlight reel plays.
In Purdy’s first couple of games starting with the 9ers he’s shown more than AOC might ever show.
Not writing off AOC at all but that comparison is a huge stretch for me.

You can have you opinion and I am aware that mine isn't a safe one.

Jimmy G, not overly mobile. Average accuracy. Above average intelligence/football IQ. Below average arm. Did well.

Trey Lance. More mobility than Purdy. Great arm. Potentially below average or average football IQ. Below average accuracy. Struggled.

The important part of being a QB under the Niner system is making good, quick decisions with accurate throws and then letting the playmakers do their thing. That is exactly what O'Connell's strength's are. Mobility isn't a bad thing but it isn't crucial there either.

The biggest mistake in football is thinking a good player is a good player when reality is that a good fit for a good player makes a good player. Purdy is a good fit and he has the added benefit of having a good amount of talent around him. O'Connell excels even more at what the Niner offense thrives off of at the QB position.

I said it over and over about Jimmy G before we brought him over. My only mistake was thinking he could run McD's system decently well enough to cover up his deficiencies. I was wrong.

I love your optimism re: O’Connell.

It really isn't optimisim. If I was optimistic, I would be saying AOC is our QB and we should not draft or sign a FA QB. I am not saying that.

AOC needs competition. If he beats out whomever the guys bring in then he’s earned it. Being the de facto starter over noodle arm Jimmy is nothing impressive on an NFL level. Says more about Jimmy than AOC really.

 

[krsone21]

being happy at your job and with the people you work with and happy with your boss

Do you think any Raider, Jacobs or otherwise, fits this description?

This group sure does love their coach

They loved Coach B too. It’ll be interesting to see what Mark does this time. Who his advisors (Brady?) recommend, if Champ gets the job because that’ll make a difference in who the HC will be as well. I imagine a guy like Harbaugh is going to want some control over personnel, way more so than AP. I personally hope he sticks with Champ, AP and PG then bring in a more experienced OC.

There is some chatter about mutual interest with Harbaugh. I think if anyone ends up unseating AP it will be him. Harbaugh is the shiny new toy like McD was last go around. I also saw something about Kellen freaking Moore leading the odds right now. I looked up the list on bookies.com and it has this, but it is hard for me to take it seriously when AP is part of the field.

Kellen Moore (Chargers OC) +350 (22.2%)

Ben Johnson (Lions OC) +400 (20.0%)

Frank Smith (Dolphins OC) +400 (20.0%)

Bill Belichick (Patriots HC) +575 (14.8%)

Jim Harbaugh (Michigan HC) +750 (11.8%)

Raheem Morris (Rams DC) +1400 (7.7%)

Eric Bieniemy (Chiefs OC) +1500 (6.3%)

Dan Quinn (Cowboys DC) +1800 (5.3%)

Mike Vrabel (Titans HC) +1800 (5.3%)

The Field +1500 (6.3%)

I really think that the favorite has to be AP. I don't think Mark will want to stray from the players wishes again after that debacle. I think hiring Champ and AP perm is not on the right move for football but it is also the good PR move as well for both the players, fans and league. Then go shopping for a new OC. Hopefully retain Graham.

I wanted Harbaugh in the last hiring cycle, instead we got McDaniels...

Harbaugh is my 1A and Pierce is my 1B. I want Harbaugh but I won't be disappointed if they decide to go with Pierce.

 

[krsone21]

Marginally surprised at disappointment in AOC in this thread. I guess fanbase history/perspective is everything - but if the Vikes had this type of rookie season from Jaren Hall, the fanbase would be anointing him QB of the future. Hell, they did for Christian Ponder and Tarvaris Jackson.

It is the NFL. There is no patience. It is be a star now or you suck.

AOC isn’t bad but he isn’t even Carr. That is all you need to know.

You're right, the new #4 is better then the old #4.

 

[Chadstroma]

being happy at your job and with the people you work with and happy with your boss

Do you think any Raider, Jacobs or otherwise, fits this description?

This group sure does love their coach

They loved Coach B too. It’ll be interesting to see what Mark does this time. Who his advisors (Brady?) recommend, if Champ gets the job because that’ll make a difference in who the HC will be as well. I imagine a guy like Harbaugh is going to want some control over personnel, way more so than AP. I personally hope he sticks with Champ, AP and PG then bring in a more experienced OC.

There is some chatter about mutual interest with Harbaugh. I think if anyone ends up unseating AP it will be him. Harbaugh is the shiny new toy like McD was last go around. I also saw something about Kellen freaking Moore leading the odds right now. I looked up the list on bookies.com and it has this, but it is hard for me to take it seriously when AP is part of the field.

Kellen Moore (Chargers OC) +350 (22.2%)

Ben Johnson (Lions OC) +400 (20.0%)

Frank Smith (Dolphins OC) +400 (20.0%)

Bill Belichick (Patriots HC) +575 (14.8%)

Jim Harbaugh (Michigan HC) +750 (11.8%)

Raheem Morris (Rams DC) +1400 (7.7%)

Eric Bieniemy (Chiefs OC) +1500 (6.3%)

Dan Quinn (Cowboys DC) +1800 (5.3%)

Mike Vrabel (Titans HC) +1800 (5.3%)

The Field +1500 (6.3%)

I really think that the favorite has to be AP. I don't think Mark will want to stray from the players wishes again after that debacle. I think hiring Champ and AP perm is not on the right move for football but it is also the good PR move as well for both the players, fans and league. Then go shopping for a new OC. Hopefully retain Graham.

I wanted Harbaugh in the last hiring cycle, instead we got McDaniels...

Harbaugh is my 1A and Pierce is my 1B. I want Harbaugh but I won't be disappointed if they decide to go with Pierce.

I was banging the table for Harbaugh last go around. I wanted Bisaccia if we couldn't get Harbaugh. Instead, we went McD which I ranted and raved against well before we hired him.

This time around I want AP. Full stop. I would be ok with Harbaugh getting the nod but I do have concern about Harbaugh and playing nice with the front office/org. I know he has a long good history with Davis but he also has a long established history of being a little much to handle. With AP, I feel like him and Champ will be able to continue to work well together.

 

[ZADO]

That was a nice run and throw by Aidan to TE Hooper , showed some wheels and threw with accuracy in full stride . This kid keeps flashing potential.

 

[ZADO]

That was a nice run and throw by Aidan to TE Hooper , showed some wheels and threw with accuracy in full stride . This kid keeps flashing potential.

Now he literally throws a TD to Adams while off balance running backwards , this is promising stuff

 

[CGRdrJoe]

why is jimmy g in

 

[Hankmoody]

So we pick #13

 

[ZADO]

So we pick #13

The Raiders should strive to get the 1st overall pick every year, imagine the team they would have

 

[Hankmoody]

Nice win to close out a disappointing but at the same time promising season. Our D is legit and our offensive complimentary pieces are there. We get a QB and we're gonna hunt.

 

[Hankmoody]

So we pick #13

Haha we ended up tied in SOS with the Donks, it goes to a coin flip between us for the #12 and #13 pick!

 

[Hankmoody]

I didn't get to see the game, just Red Zone flashes, but man some of those plays AOC looked nice. Is he intriguing enough to go into the season with? Maybe with a guy like Minshew as an out?

 

[joey]

I didn't get to see the game, just Red Zone flashes, but man some of those plays AOC looked nice. Is he intriguing enough to go into the season with? Maybe with a guy like Minshew as an out?

draft best available rookie QB in the 2nd round and let them battle it out.

 

[ZADO]

See ya`all in the 2024 thread

 

[kaso]

This got me thinking wonder how Carr performed his first year. IIRC, he had the full training camp? (but could easily be mistaken). Carr certainly didn't have a HC/OC change mid season.

Rookie year vs Rookie Year, the slight edge goes to O'Connell.

Rk	Player	Age	From	To	G	GS	Cmp	Att	Inc	Cmp%	Yds	TD	Int	Pick6	TD%	Int%	Rate	Sk	Yds	Sk%	Y/A	AY/A	ANY/A	Y/C	AV	FantPt
1	Derek Carr	23	2014	2014	16	16	348	599	251	58.1	3270	21	12	1	3.5	2.0	76.6	24	149	3.85	5.5	5.26	4.82	9.4	5	192.0
2	Aidan O'Connell	25	2023	2023	10	9	193	312	119	61.9	1974	10	7	0	3.2	2.2	81.3	22	159	6.59	6.3	5.96	5.09	10.2
	O'Connell : Avg to 16						308	499	191		3158	16	11

*3rd row is taking O'Connells game average across 10 games and to calculate a 16 game period. Those numbers would be better as he didn't play the full 10 games. Granted I don't know if Carr played all 16 either.

In Carr's rookie season the Raiders when 3-13
O'Connell is credited with a 9 game record of 4-5.

Edit: Also safe to say that Carr didn't go 3 quarters in the same game without completing a pass. Ha!

Did I just reply to my own post? Damn right I did...

Figured I'd update this with the final game stats. It's only fair to AOC

Rk	Player	Age	From	To	G	GS	Cmp	Att	Inc	Cmp%	Yds	TD	Int	Pick6	TD%	Int%	Rate	Sk	Yds	Sk%	Y/A	AY/A	ANY/A	Y/C	AV	FantPt
1	Derek Carr	23	2014	2014	16	16	348	599	251	58.1	3270	21	12	1	3.5	2.0	76.6	24	149	3.85	5.5	5.26	4.82	9.4	5	192.0
2	Aidan O'Connell	25	2023	2023	11	10	213	343	130	62.1	2218	12	7	0	3.5	2.0	83.9	24	173	6.5	6.5	6.2	5.37	10.4
	O'Connell : Avg to 16						309	499	190		3226	17	10

*3rd row is taking O'Connell's game average across 11 games and to calculate a 16 game period. Those numbers would be better as he didn't play the full 11 games. Granted I don't know if Carr played all 16 either.

In Carr's rookie season the Raiders when 3-13
O'Connell is credited with a 9 game record of 5-5