Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Zyphros

2020 NFL Combine Questions I Have For RB's

Recommended Posts

Thought I'd create a thread that has my personal thoughts on all the skill position players who were invited to the combine. A little pet project of mine if you will. Last year there were some names I didn't recognize and caught me off guard by good performances. Don't want that happening this year, so since the invites have gone out, I'm going to do a little rundown of each player with a quick note of what I want to see from them, and if I'm interested in them for fantasy purposes or not.

I'm just using NFL.com's list of participants which is http://www.nfl.com/combine/participants and I'll go through the RB's since there are less of them than the WR's. This is also based on just a few minute clips I've seen of the not as high profile guys, so it's very entry level. If they are higher profile I've watched at least 4 game cut ups.

So just going down the list lets get the ball rolling.  It's one long post though so I understand if you skip a player or two ha.  

Salvon Ahmed - Listed 5'11" 196 - looks slight on film, runs with patience but goes down easily on contact. Doesn't use his legs all that well for drive forward. Could be a pass catcher, but none of my concerns can be squashed by the combine. Not interested in him.

Cam Akers - Listed 5'11" 212 - Might be the RB I have the least amount of questions about for fantasy purposes. Hope he tests athletically and I want to see him in drills to make sure he looks smooth. Very interested in him, everyone should be. Not a hard call ha.

Jet (Darius) Anderson - Listed 5'11" 212 - Overall I kind of like him. Looks smaller on film. 2 main questions. 1. Does he have the strength to last? Because he does have the balance and quickness from film. 2. Does he have the speed? Like I said he's quick, but he looks more quick than fast. Interested.

LeVante Bellamy – Listed 5'9” 190 - Size and strength is my question. Doubt he's more than a COP back in the NFL, probably useless, doesn't have an anger to his running at that size. Not interested.

Eno Benjamin – Listed 5'10” 210 – Senior Bowl measured in 5'9” 195. Had him somewhat high pre-senior bowl. Interested in his measurements, looks small on film, could be a plus version of Bellamy. COP type of back at 5'9” 195, but could turn into more if his listed height/weight prove more accurate. Barely interested.  

Raymond Calais – Listed 5'9” 185 – Last 2 years of college were 9.3 and 7.6 yards per carry. Really explosive guy. Deceisive and decently powerful, not sure if he can last. A little straight-lineish which is why I want to see the drills, and see if he can catch. Interested as a role player with upside. Interested.

DeeJay Dallas – Listed 5'10” 214 – Slow footed and can't combo moves together. Not interested.

AJ Dillon – Listed 6'0” 250 – Pretty explosive for a 250 pound guy, can he shed some weight and pull off a Le'Veon Bell? I want to see quick feet and hands mostly with him. Speed would be nice, I'd rather him be quick though as he'll never be a burner. Interested.

J.K. Dobbins – Listed 5'10” 217 – Burst is my biggest question with Dobbins. I'd like to see his pass catching work as well, usually those drills are set up in a way you can easily see cuts and burst off them. Those will be key in how high I rank him. Interested.

Rico Dowdle – Listed 6'0” 215 – Is that his real size? Decent pass catcher, looseness to his hips and legs. Kind of like him. Not very productive. Looked smooth on tape, I want him to repeat that and I'll like him as a sleeper in the 5th or later of the NFL draft. Somewhat interested.

Clyde Edwards-Helaire – Listed 5'8” 209 – Durability/workhorse potential, not really something that can be answered from the combine. In my brain, he's likely to stay where he's at, or move down in ranking because of other risers. Not interested.

Darrynton Evans – Listed 5'11” 200 – Jalin Moore was the better player at Appalachian State, injury gave Evans a chance, he seized it. I want to see strength in his cuts and quickness mostly. I know he can catch and be a plus COP. Interested.

JaMycal Hasty – Listed 5'9” 205 – Might be my favorite low profile guy to see how he does. Bad production in college so I won't be high on him, but I like him as a player. Super explosive guy, mini-Dalvin Cook. I know he's fast, I know he's quick, I know he can catch. I'm just looking for him to impress in multiple ways. Very interested.

Brian Herrien – Listed 6'0” 210 – This years Josh Jacobs? Just situational comparison, but he was behind some of the best RB's in college football his whole career. Overall I like his game, could be in for a nice role with a good showing. Sleeper appeal. I want to see quickness, and pass catching. Very Interested.

Tony Jones – Listed 5'11” 224 – Looks bigger on tape. Can't really judge vision during the combine, so quickness would be nice to see. Battering ram type, doesn't strike me as very versatile. Not interested.

Joshua Kelley – Listed 5'11” 219 – Could move up a lot if he has a good combine. I'm looking for the drills mostly to see if he can be smooth or not. Interested.

Javon Leake – Listed 6'0” 200 – Mostly interested in if he can make smooth cuts. I know he can be explosive but can he be quick?  3 cone, agility, and drill work to see if he can loosen up his hips and combo moves in some fashion. Interested.

Benny LeMay – Listed 5'9” 215 – Stocky kind of guy, CJ Anderson esque. I'm required to be interested here. I like his feet and patience, I want to see decisive action in him during the combine, cuts, explosiveness and purpose during drills. Interested.

Anthony McFarland – Listed 5'9” 215 – Stocky guy again, very similar to Benny LeMay actually, but I think he's a better version. Same things for what I'm looking for. Interested.

Zack Moss – Listed 5'10” 222 – Mostly just looking at speed with Moss. Does he have enough speed or is he just slow?  I think he might look awkward in drills too because he doesn't strike me as a great athlete. Interested, but cautious.

Sewo Olonilua – Listed 6'3” 240 – He looks that big on film too. Also looks loose which is intriguing but if he can showcase some burst and speed then I'm in. I heavily doubt it. Not interested.

La'Mical Perine – Listed 5'11” 218 – Don't really have any questions about Perine, I just don't think he's anything special. Seems to be decent at everything, jack of all trades kind of guy, special at nothing. That makes him a JAG unless he can prove otherwise athletically. Interested.

Scottie Phillips – Listed 5'8” 211 – Very similar to CEH to me. Durability/workhorse potential and vision questions, not something that'll be answered by the combine. Not interested.

James Robinson – Listed 5'10” 220 – Worse version of Zack Moss, but I don't questions Robinson's speed. I question everything else.  Not interested.  

D'Andre Swift – Listed 5'9” 215 – Workhorse potential is a question for me, can't be judged by combine. I know he can be explosive, I don't know if he has long speed. Obviously I'm interested.

J.J. Taylor – 5'6” 185 – Built thick for being that short, but workload potential is 100% capped at a COP role. Reminds me of Justice Hill a bit, undersized a little (or a lot in Taylor's case) but runs hard. Not interested.

Jonathan Taylor – Listed 5'11” 219 – Sometimes he has slow feet, other times he doesn't, sometimes he's explosive other times he isn't. I just want to see a solid workout for him. Leave no doubts afterwards is what I'm looking for.  Interested. 

Patrick Taylor – Listed 6'3” 227 – Big guy obviously, not very smooth runner, also runs high. Not interested.

Ke'Shawn Vaughn – Listed 5'10 218 – Good pass catcher, know he can do that. Slightly questionable speed, I think he has enough but he isn't a burner, would like that to be proven right. Balance is a slight concern as well, if he slows down during drills it'll be obvious. He has good leg drive and power there, but I think he stumbles a lot.  Interested. 

Michael Warren – Listed 5'11” 222 – Really like him as a player, not so worried about most of his game. I do want to see some more explosiveness to him but I think he's solid all around. Has a nice looseness to his movement. Vision questions but can't do much about that.  Interested.  

That'll do it for the RB's.  I want to do it for the WR's as well, but this took me so long to write up I doubt I'll get a chance to get to the 55 WR's that'll be at the combine.  

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Man, we see RB very differently. I think Zack Moss is the best prospect at the position (only because Etienne stayed in school) especially if he runs under 4.55. He doesn't really need to wow, just not look bad, as he's the best tackle breaker and is the best at setting up blocks in the class in my eyes, and tackle breaking seems to be the #1 trait that carries over to the pros. Has some Arian Foster to his game, where he looks slow at times, but is ripping off chunk plays left and right, and maximizing every touch. I'd go so far as to say I think he's a better prospect than any of 2019 class too, with the caveat that Jacobs exceeded expectations.

I'm not totally seeing the hype on Dobbins. He has great vision, which isn't really a combine test, but he needs a big combine. Right now, he strikes me as a guy who is overrated playing on an elite team. More of a jack of all trades master of almost none. I don't dislike him, just see him as a decent prospect, and not a huge difference maker. More Hyde than Zeke as OSU RB's go.

RB with the least questions is not how I would describe Akers hype at all. I know his o-line sucked, but he did them no favors, as I saw a guy who missed plenty of open holes when they were there. To be fair, he may have just assumed holes wouldn't be there as they often weren't, but I feel he is getting too big a pass for his o-line.  I know I'm in the minority on him, but unless he just dominates the combine, I doubt I'll have him as a top-6 RB in this class, or a 1st round rookie pick, with how loaded this WR class is. Fumbling issues scare me too.

Vaughn is listed at 218, but was only 205 at the Senior Bowl. Whether that means he lost weight in an effort to gain speed(knowing its questionable) or was simply listed too high, will likely be solved by his times. Weird to me that he doesn't seem to get the same pass Akers does for having a crappy o-line, especially since Vaughn played in a far more difficult conference. 

1 RB you didn't list(so I assume they weren't invited for some reason) that I am pretty interested in, is Reggie Corbin(Illinois)

Corbin is quick as a hiccup, I fully expect a sub 7.00 3-cone and a sub 4.00 shuttle. Likely a 4.4 40 as well. He reminds me of Philip Lindsay, where he's likely to small to be a franchise RB, but can certainly be a very effective RBBC member. Had a down 2019, but averaged 8.5 per carry in 2018. Undersized, but not too tiny at 5-10 200.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, travdogg said:

I'm not totally seeing the hype on Dobbins. He has great vision, which isn't really a combine test, but he needs a big combine. Right now, he strikes me as a guy who is overrated playing on an elite team. More of a jack of all trades master of almost none. I don't dislike him, just see him as a decent prospect, and not a huge difference maker. More Hyde than Zeke as OSU RB's go.

I was listening to a podcast recently where they were breaking down Dobbins and the guy was talking about measurements of Dobbins being exceptional,  that Dobbins can vert 40+ and is as athletic as Christine Michael.

If that is true and you combine that level of athleticism with great vision and football instructs, well thats a recipe for a top 10 RB.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Biabreakable said:

I was listening to a podcast recently where they were breaking down Dobbins and the guy was talking about measurements of Dobbins being exceptional,  that Dobbins can vert 40+ and is as athletic as Christine Michael.

If that is true and you combine that level of athleticism with great vision and football instructs, well thats a recipe for a top 10 RB.

He ran a 4.45 at 200 pounds as a freshman. With a 4.00 shuttle and a 40+ vertical. He's 215 now, so I am very curious if he is still at that range? Its not a dealbreaker if he isn't, and like I said, I don't dislike him, I just think a few other guys are better players. He needs that elite athleticism more than guys like Moss, Swift, or Taylor do in my eyes, because they all break tackles better than Dobbins does, and studies have shown tackle breaking carries over more than any other skill for running backs. 

I personally have him and Taylor in tier 2, with Moss and Swift as tier 1, but I am fully aware I'm on an island with Moss. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, travdogg said:

1 RB you didn't list(so I assume they weren't invited for some reason) that I am pretty interested in, is Reggie Corbin(Illinois)

Corbin is quick as a hiccup, I fully expect a sub 7.00 3-cone and a sub 4.00 shuttle. Likely a 4.4 40 as well. He reminds me of Philip Lindsay, where he's likely to small to be a franchise RB, but can certainly be a very effective RBBC member. Had a down 2019, but averaged 8.5 per carry in 2018. Undersized, but not too tiny at 5-10 200.

 

Corbin wasn't invited to the combine you're right, I'm strictly looking at those guys for answers for now.  I've done personal eval's for other players, Corbin included, but this was based on the NFL.com list of combine participants.  

I'd like to keep the conversation just about the combine guys though

As for Zack Moss, he has the production profile of a guy I would be very interested in.  However I've heard this narrative before with David Montgomery.  I'd say Moss is a better overall prospect than Montgomery was, but it feels like the same narrative people are spewing.  The talents are so similar.  After the combine was when I moved Miles Sanders ahead of Montgomery.  We'll see how this one shakes out, but that's why I'm cautious when it comes to Moss.  If he tests similarly to Montgomery he'll slide but he seems quicker and faster than Montgomery was (at 4.63 I think Moss easily beats that, but I'd guess around 4.53).  I do currently have Moss ranked as my RB5 (I don't think I'm that low on him) and he's pretty safely there.  Could move up with those unanswered questions if someone I have ranked ahead doesn't answer theirs. 

Good call on Vaughn's senior bowl weight in, totally forgot about that one with Eno kind of lowlighting that group.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, travdogg said:

He ran a 4.45 at 200 pounds as a freshman. With a 4.00 shuttle and a 40+ vertical. He's 215 now, so I am very curious if he is still at that range? Its not a dealbreaker if he isn't, and like I said, I don't dislike him, I just think a few other guys are better players. He needs that elite athleticism more than guys like Moss, Swift, or Taylor do in my eyes, because they all break tackles better than Dobbins does, and studies have shown tackle breaking carries over more than any other skill for running backs. 

I personally have him and Taylor in tier 2, with Moss and Swift as tier 1, but I am fully aware I'm on an island with Moss. 

Yeah I think those are the numbers the guy I was listening to was citing.

What tackle breaking metrics are you using to determine that Dobbins does this less than the other RB? Yards after contact?

I would be curious to see that data if you or anyone else has it handy.

I haven't really dug in too much on any of these rookies yet but I would expect Dobbins to be a tier one guy for me. From just some casual observation he and Swift look the best to me.

I haven't watched Moss at all yet. So I am kind of excited about doing that and I wonder if I will be similarly impressed as you are.

You usually have some pretty different takes than the consensus on these guys. I respect your opinion because you usually have a lot of good information behind it.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Zyphros said:

Corbin wasn't invited to the combine you're right, I'm strictly looking at those guys for answers for now.  I've done personal eval's for other players, Corbin included, but this was based on the NFL.com list of combine participants.  

I'd like to keep the conversation just about the combine guys though

As for Zack Moss, he has the production profile of a guy I would be very interested in.  However I've heard this narrative before with David Montgomery.  I'd say Moss is a better overall prospect than Montgomery was, but it feels like the same narrative people are spewing.  The talents are so similar.  After the combine was when I moved Miles Sanders ahead of Montgomery.  We'll see how this one shakes out, but that's why I'm cautious when it comes to Moss.  If he tests similarly to Montgomery he'll slide but he seems quicker and faster than Montgomery was (at 4.63 I think Moss easily beats that, but I'd guess around 4.53).  I do currently have Moss ranked as my RB5 (I don't think I'm that low on him) and he's pretty safely there.  Could move up with those unanswered questions if someone I have ranked ahead doesn't answer theirs. 

Good call on Vaughn's senior bowl weight in, totally forgot about that one with Eno kind of lowlighting that group.  

Is rich man's David Montgomery not a really good prospect? Montgomery had a decent rookie year I thought. I think Moss trumps him with vision and receiving ability. Montgomery didn't have the same ability to reset himself after the catch and excelled more with a head of steam. Moss seems to get going pretty quick, albeit he certainly won't outrun Dobbins or Taylor, or Edwards-Helaire in the 40. 

Why do you not like Edwards-Helaire by the way? Are you only looking for true workhorses?  Or did you mean you aren't interested in his combine, because he's a pretty known commodity? He strikes me as potentially an Ekeler-like PPR beast.

 

5 minutes ago, Biabreakable said:

Yeah I think those are the numbers the guy I was listening to was citing.

What tackle breaking metrics are you using to determine that Dobbins does this less than the other RB? Yards after contact?

I would be curious to see that data if you or anyone else has it handy.

I haven't really dug in too much on any of these rookies yet but I would expect Dobbins to be a tier one guy for me. From just some casual observation he and Swift look the best to me.

I haven't watched Moss at all yet. So I am kind of excited about doing that and I wonder if I will be similarly impressed as you are.

You usually have some pretty different takes than the consensus on these guys. I respect your opinion because you usually have a lot of good information behind it.

Yards after contact, missed tackles forced, and the eye test kind of make up an amalgamation of traits to me. I don't have those stats for Dobbins(or Swift) in front of me, but I do for Moss and Taylor.

Moss: had 1,042 of his 1,412 yards come after contact, and broke 87 tackles on 234 attempts. This despite being injured for part of the year.  He also had 33 broken tackles on 66 career catches, which is a big part of where my Arian Foster comparison comes from. He'd frequently catch a swing pass, break a tackle, make a cut, and suddenly have 10+ yards.

Taylor has similar tackle breaking numbers averaging 70 broken tackles per season, and has far superior speed, but is held back by maybe(probably?) being limited to being a 2-down RB. He was charged with a drop on 8 of 50 career targets that were deemed accurate, which is awful for a RB. 16% were flat out dropped. Taylor would have been a much better prospect 15 years ago, but he likely will need to go to a team that doesn't really value their RB's in the passing game, or to a team, that spends a lot of time leading. I think that will lead to Taylor falling to round 3, and its possible having almost 1,000 touches the last 3 years hurts his value as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think I may have found something on that here as far as missed tackles forced.

Im still looking for something on yards after contact.

@ZWK usually charts these things. Maybe he knows?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I used to do my own charting, but these days I just rely on PFF's elusiveness numbers.

PFF has mentioned their YAC & MT numbers for several RBs in this class scattered across a bunch of places. At the end of the month they're supposed to publish their updated draft guide which should have every RB's numbers, so I'm mostly waiting on that before trying to sort through them.

Zack Moss's elusiveness numbers at that link (and in travdogg's post) are excellent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have spent a lot of years watching Mike Warren in HS and college so I was looking for somewhere to throw in my 2 cents. 
 

To me the NFL knock should be that he really is a power back that doesn’t currently have the size most NFL power backs would have.  His leg drive is freakish though and he is a fall forward guy that gets tough yards. He is good in pass protection and can be fine for dump offs, but won’t really be running routes down the field.  
 

His game reminds me most of Mark Ingram with his compact body and the way he is faster than you think getting outside and then downhill at you. 
 

Totally random fact- Mike Warren ran for 194 and Joe Burrow threw for 446 yards in a HS state finals matchup that had 10 second half touchdowns. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, travdogg said:

Is rich man's David Montgomery not a really good prospect? Montgomery had a decent rookie year I thought. I think Moss trumps him with vision and receiving ability. Montgomery didn't have the same ability to reset himself after the catch and excelled more with a head of steam. Moss seems to get going pretty quick, albeit he certainly won't outrun Dobbins or Taylor, or Edwards-Helaire in the 40. 

Why do you not like Edwards-Helaire by the way? Are you only looking for true workhorses?  Or did you mean you aren't interested in his combine, because he's a pretty known commodity? He strikes me as potentially an Ekeler-like PPR beast.

Rich man's Montgomery is a good thing for sure, but I wasn't that high on Montgomery (after testing), initially I have them about even as an overall prospect.  If Moss passes the athleticism, even functional would be fine, then he's immediately a better version.  If he doesn't then I worry he is a worse version of how you view Dobbins.  Good at things, product of the system, not all that special.  I don't view Dobbins that way but it seems you do.  

You got it right, I'm just not interested in CEH's combine.  The questions I have for him will come from landing spot/playing time/coach speak on usage type of things.  I won't really know that until August so I'm likely to just be lower on him than others.  But I'm looking for workhorse types or COP types that could be more.  I don't see that with CEH.  Combine could change that view, but questions won't be answered.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Zyphros said:

Rich man's Montgomery is a good thing for sure, but I wasn't that high on Montgomery (after testing), initially I have them about even as an overall prospect.  If Moss passes the athleticism, even functional would be fine, then he's immediately a better version.  If he doesn't then I worry he is a worse version of how you view Dobbins.  Good at things, product of the system, not all that special.  I don't view Dobbins that way but it seems you do.  

You got it right, I'm just not interested in CEH's combine.  The questions I have for him will come from landing spot/playing time/coach speak on usage type of things.  I won't really know that until August so I'm likely to just be lower on him than others.  But I'm looking for workhorse types or COP types that could be more.  I don't see that with CEH.  Combine could change that view, but questions won't be answered.  

Montgomery was overrated this time last year.  I believe that is even more evident today.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

Montgomery was overrated this time last year.  I believe that is even more evident today.

Agree. This is one reason I am a little reserved about Moss. He seems like another Montgomery. I like Moss, but I am very interested in his speed testing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.