Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
Tucker Carlson Has Highest-Rated Program In Cable News History (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Breezy H2O
- Start date
Ilov80s
Footballguy
The messaging of it is bad because defund the police sounds very absolute as in take away all their money. The short video doesn’t seem to say that, she says in many cities shifting 5% of the police budget to health services would actually result in a doubling of their health budget. So I think even when people are talking about defund the police, different people take different things from it. I know I see a lot of extremists on twitter who want the police flat out gone.
rockaction
Footballguy
I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Not giving you a hard time, but it isn't clear what the "also there" is that you're referring to. The hashtag about communities? The video and explanation? I'm not sure.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I actually mostly support the video RA posted. I think investing in education, mental health, etc at a higher rate is a better ROI.
rockaction
Footballguy
Sounds like defunding is entirely accurate. The police flat out gone is "abolish the police," which I've seen around.
Mile High
Footballguy
They don't just say defund the police but give something they want to do with the funds.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Maybe that’s my own ignorance. I guess I always took defund in a more absolute terms as in cutoff all the money, not reducer the budget by 5%. I guess I’m surprised that it’s so controversial then. We are just talking basic shifting of public resources.
rockaction
Footballguy
Indeed the slogan is confusing as it implies a significant amount being cut from police activities. I actually agree with shifting resources over to other public programs and services and away from the police. I don't find it that controversial, but I've been long in favor of police reform (I had to toot my own horn), or at the very least, demilitarizing the police force.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Maybe I have just been way wrong this whole time or the marketing/propaganda around it has been bad. If you polled people I know and asked if they supported "defunding the police", it would receive a giant "HELL NO." If you polled them and asked, "Would you support shifting 5% of the police budget towards education and mental health?" I would guess ~60% of the people would support that.
rockaction
Footballguy
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Same here and I think even among many on the right, it's been acknowledged that our military budget could probably be trimmed quite a bit and spent on more domestic infrastructure. These are actually probably fairly popular. Though it often seems that neither party wants to do anything that could possibly be well received by the other side and the more universally well received something is, the less likely the Dems or GOP will work to make it happen. Pretty incredible to think that America is basically just yelling over each other right now while probably being in agreement on the core issues. Sounds like a bad marriage.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Bad on their end though I suspect the wording may be used to cast a wider net. It can appeal to those who want minor changes and still excite radicals who want to eliminate police entirely. Though of course their political opponents are going to use it as a weapon against them and turn it into fear mongering. What a mess.
rockaction
Footballguy
The support shown to where leagues are shutting down and people are saying "good" about it lets you know how big of a problem that even the average citizen considers it to be. It's amazing we can't find common ground, but as I've said in other threads, the right wants law and order for law and order's sake without thinking about the effects of it, and the left wants its unions left alone. Both are such crazy things.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
satch
Footballguy
satch
Footballguy
“Defund the police” means more to some than simply reducing their budget by a few percent. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, one of Joe Biden’s campaign advisors is unsatisfied with NY police $484 million budget cut.
New York passes budget with police cuts but AOC says it doesn’t go far enough.
Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez has condemned budget cuts to New YorkCity’s Police Department (NYPD) saying it does not meet protesters’ demands over defunding.
The Democrat’s comments on Tuesday came as New York City’s Council voted to pass the 2021 police department budget, which included an almost $484 million cut.
Critics complain that more than $350 million from those savings will be relocated to other city departments, including New York’s Department for Education. That will see continued payments to police stationed outside schools, when activists have advocated for their removal.
Two hundred community groups said on Tuesday that their demands were still not being met after they called on Mr de Blasio to slash $1 billion from the NYPD budget.
Ms Ocasio-Cortex added on Tuesday that “the fight to defund policing continues” because communities had demanded less police on the streets – not reallocated police budgets.
Authorities across the US have also been under pressure to defund or abolish police departments after Minneapolis police killed George Floyd, an unarmed black man, on 25 May.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/nypd-budget-cuts-aoc-defund-protests-black-lives-matter-new-york-city-vote-a9595146.html%3famp
New York passes budget with police cuts but AOC says it doesn’t go far enough.
Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez has condemned budget cuts to New YorkCity’s Police Department (NYPD) saying it does not meet protesters’ demands over defunding.
The Democrat’s comments on Tuesday came as New York City’s Council voted to pass the 2021 police department budget, which included an almost $484 million cut.
Critics complain that more than $350 million from those savings will be relocated to other city departments, including New York’s Department for Education. That will see continued payments to police stationed outside schools, when activists have advocated for their removal.
Two hundred community groups said on Tuesday that their demands were still not being met after they called on Mr de Blasio to slash $1 billion from the NYPD budget.
Ms Ocasio-Cortex added on Tuesday that “the fight to defund policing continues” because communities had demanded less police on the streets – not reallocated police budgets.
Authorities across the US have also been under pressure to defund or abolish police departments after Minneapolis police killed George Floyd, an unarmed black man, on 25 May.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/nypd-budget-cuts-aoc-defund-protests-black-lives-matter-new-york-city-vote-a9595146.html%3famp
satch
Footballguy
That’s what many Americans fear. Joe Biden gets elected, and is nothing more than a puppet with extremist lunatics like AOC and The Squad pulling the strings. Massive defunding, taking cops off the streets, potentially abolishing police altogether in some instances, leading to more violence, looting, and just general chaos in our cities.
Last edited by a moderator:
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
But we're also constantly reminded how Biden is supposed to be anathema to Dems/libs/progressives because he's been so stridently pro-LE in the past. Same with Harris.
Last edited by a moderator:
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
I am shocked by your stance on this. You’re usually the most reasonable, level-headed poster in P/R, not one to overreact to an 11-second clip.
For the record, I think Carlson is vile and that clip was him being his usually snarky self, but was it so awful to where calls for him to removed are needed? Nah. Just give it time. He’ll eventually say something truly vile that will make it impossible to keep him on the air.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Just to clarify - anyone here commenting live in a high crime city? Anyone? Seems like a bad example at first blush but I think it holds - Iraq fell apart post invasion because of a lack of security, from the US and traditional Iraqi police and security. Security is important to democracy and belief and trust in it as well.
So it's a fair point to say, hey a secure urban environment is necessary, for citizens, protesters, the cops themselves. There are policies to do this responsibly. And it's a fair point to say that a lack of security can lead to greater chaos and political violence if not managed. What isn't ok is to suggest - and Carlson is always backhanding, slyly, passively suggesting things cynically rather than just actively and coherently calling for what he means - that someone is justified in stepping into that void to act as a vigilante because that void exists. Backing and justifying with sophistry such behavior is in practice acting as an agitator. This is where Carlson failed, at best, and that's why he's acting heinously here.
So it's a fair point to say, hey a secure urban environment is necessary, for citizens, protesters, the cops themselves. There are policies to do this responsibly. And it's a fair point to say that a lack of security can lead to greater chaos and political violence if not managed. What isn't ok is to suggest - and Carlson is always backhanding, slyly, passively suggesting things cynically rather than just actively and coherently calling for what he means - that someone is justified in stepping into that void to act as a vigilante because that void exists. Backing and justifying with sophistry such behavior is in practice acting as an agitator. This is where Carlson failed, at best, and that's why he's acting heinously here.
Last edited by a moderator:
shadrap
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Thanks for the comment. I think I explain myself more fully above. If my impression is wrong I'll own it, but that's how I see his statements. I will always be stridently pro free speech.
Last edited by a moderator:
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
To boffsidez this, yes there are definitely agitators on the left, marxists, communists, horseshoe anarchists, take your pick, but something those on the far far left and the far far right both want is excuse making and justification of the violence that allows - really forces - those in the middle to pick one side or the other. Because hey if you don't you're allowing the [choose one: marxists|fascists] to take over.
rockaction
Footballguy
Exactly. I don't know if you read the post in my thread (The Du Jour one) but I was lamenting exactly this last night. I choose neither of these groups. Neither of them speak for me. I actually said that I was afraid I'd be on the wrong side of the wrong side of history, and I meant it.
![[scooter]](/data/avatars/m/22/22287.jpg?1659477690){kind=avatar}
[scooter]
Footballguy
Tucker didn't say "violence breeds violence". He said (paraphrasing) "violence breeds a feeling that order has to be maintained".Seems like a legit question.
Did people really not expect this kind of violent reaction to seeing what is going on around the country. Violence breeds violence.
He's not describing this murder as an act of violence. He's describing it as an act of maintaining order.
dkp993
Footballguy
The problem is is he is apart of that leadership, as a talking head with a massive following. He must choose his words extremely carefully right now in this time of division, and he clearly didn’t here. If he was saying what you contend it was a very nuanced point that obviously got missed by large swaths of people, and in fact a dangerous interpretation took its place, which was also picked up on by a large swath of people. It’s a irresistible and dangerous game he’s playing imo.
dkp993
Footballguy
That doesn’t make it true. Certainly no more so then it did/does when someone says the same thing about Trump being a puppet of extremist lunatics like Putin. We MUST stop this fear mongering, it’s extremely toxic. The hypocrisy of this both ways is the problem, how people can’t see this within themselves is baffling to me.
jamny
Footballguy
KiddLattimer
Footballguy
If you think Joe Biden, Pelosi, HRC or any of the Democratic establishment takes orders from AOC, The Squad or Bernie you clearly haven't been paying attention
trader jake
Footballguy
There are reasons why this is a common misconception. See: thread title.
Not really. It's a talking point for Trump and Pence though. Same with Nixon in 68' and others through political history. It's non-sense.
...if we don't learn from history and all that.
[scooter]
Footballguy
Using the phrase "maintain order" when he means "violence" is not a good look, don't you think?
You don't think his viewers, especially the impressionable younger types, say, for example, a 17-year-old with an obsession with police and access to guns, might take him literally when he describes murder as "had to maintain order"?
rockaction
Footballguy
I don't like Tucker, and it's possible he's offering this as a wink-nudge excuse for vigilante violence, but like I said upthread, this is poli phi 151 or so. There will be order. It's just how will that order come about? In a vacuum, all sorts of people rise up and defy laws, traditions, norms, procedures, etc. to provide at least mob justice of some sort.
I'm surprised this is a controversial point.
I'm surprised this is a controversial point.
Last edited by a moderator:
Boston
Footballguy
He is absolutely not part of the leadership...please stop with that...he has a TV show that a good amount of Amercan’s watch and is calling out our leaders for allowing violence, standing down to violence or using terms like “mostly peaceful”...what is going on is an embarrassment and has been for months....yet here we are going over the nuances of what Tucker Carlson should be allowed to say...it is literally Rome with Nero these days.
[scooter]
Footballguy
What makes it controversial is that Carlson waited until a white-perpetrated murder to unveil his "justice has been provided" moment.
Last edited by a moderator:
rockaction
Footballguy
Yeah, I guess it's circumspect. I don't watch, so I don't know if he's fanning racial flames. The point itself, on its own, without Carlson, is certainly an empirically correct one that we know from experience. Whether or not he's using dog whistles and how overt they are is not really what I'm discussing. Ceteris paribus, if a Democrat were discussing it, I'd nod my head, too.
Last edited by a moderator:
satch
Footballguy
The state of violence and disorder on our city streets should be a talking point for both parties, though only one actually cared enough to condemn and address it during the convention.
After months of rioting, looting, and violence on our city streets, with some cities literally being taken over by violent extremists, business being destroyed, etc you don’t think many Americans are concerned that we may soon have a president that is being advised by people who support massive police defunding and cops taken off the streets?
Boston
Footballguy
I mean who doesn’t like being verbally assaulted by a gang when you are out to dinner with your best gal?
rockaction
Footballguy
In fairness to Biden, he's been condemning the riots since at least May 31. https://twitter.com/walterolson/status/1298813503302705154
trader jake
Footballguy
I believe you are overstating the items above or we disagree. Either way, no worries. Overall, we've consistently seen a reduction in crimes rates for decades now.
Also, I prefer politicians that concentrate their efforts on causes, not effects.
Rich Conway
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
I get what you're saying, but I don't think so. It's order, just not the order we'd like it to be. It's compulsion and power in the assertion of unwritten and unspoken law, possibly spontaneous, but order nonetheless.
Last edited by a moderator:
Rich Conway
Footballguy
"Might makes right" seems like a more apt description of anarchy than order, but perhaps that's just me.
rockaction
Footballguy
No, I get what you're saying in the philosophical sense. But in practical terms, into the vacuum steps an order, a hierarchy, and it comes at the point of a gun and the whim of a man (or woman) in some instances.
I think allegations of dog whistles are dumb. It's dumb when QAnon people think "cheese pizza" means "child pornography" and it's just as dumb on the other side when everything is secret hidden code for overt racism.
But there's no need to read between the lines in this case. Carlson was explicit about the murderer trying to maintain order. That's extremely stupid on its own terms, nothing to do with race.
Last edited by a moderator:
Rich Conway
Footballguy
I'd say into the vacuum steps a "power", but it is literally the definition of anarchy rather than order as we've traditionally defined such terms.
Anyone advocating for this is advocating for anarchy. If Carlson or others are stating that this is "maintaining order", they are dead wrong.
rockaction
Footballguy
Sure thing. If that's what he said, then it's stupid and counterproductive and odious, which are all reasons I don't watch Tucker Carlson. I'm not defending the man. At all. I'm not even trying to have it both ways. Don't watch, won't watch, not surprised.
rockaction
Footballguy
Depends at what point power becomes a form of organization or governance, something anarchy, by its very etymology, is not.
Similar threads
