14 Killed in Shooting in San Bernardino (1 Viewer)

[[scooter]]

I hate clicking on a headline at CNN.com only to find out that it points to a video.

 

[Ladsud]

so husband and wife team. He worked with them for 5 years had an argument with someone, gets thrown out of the party and returns with his wife and opens fire

Do you and your wife have bombs, armor, assault rifles ready to go for an argument?

That's true but I suspect a good portion of american citizens actually do.....

I'd find that highly unlikely

do you honestly believe that the michigan miltia types, the sovereign movement people are not prepared for war at all times?

that being said it would seem unusual for educated people in southern california to be prepared for war unless they were actually planning something. If you are trying to be a terrorist though as soon as you target people you know it becomes more of a targeted killing doesn't it? Especially if you go to the trouble of faking an argument. Now everyone thinks it's over a grievance...why would you do that?

Are you defining terrorism as a random act? What does it matter if you know people in the building, all forms of mass murder are terrorism. The entire city is on edge and lots of people are dead. I dont know any other way to describe it.

 

[kface]

so husband and wife team. He worked with them for 5 years had an argument with someone, gets thrown out of the party and returns with his wife and opens fire

Do you and your wife have bombs, armor, assault rifles ready to go for an argument?

That's true but I suspect a good portion of american citizens actually do.....

I'd find that highly unlikely

do you honestly believe that the michigan miltia types, the sovereign movement people are not prepared for war at all times?

that being said it would seem unusual for educated people in southern california to be prepared for war unless they were actually planning something. If you are trying to be a terrorist though as soon as you target people you know it becomes more of a targeted killing doesn't it? Especially if you go to the trouble of faking an argument. Now everyone thinks it's over a grievance...why would you do that?

Are you defining terrorism as a random act? What does it matter if you know people in the building, all forms of mass murder are terrorism. The entire city is on edge and lots of people are dead. I dont know any other way to describe it.

You are right...that's how it should be defined and that's how I would define it as well

I was just more thinking about how this plays out in the media...is this an isis inspired attack or is it just like any other work related attack? Like i said, if it's isis inspired why not scream the religious nonsense? Why fake an argument?

 

[[scooter]]

I was just more thinking about how this plays out in the media...is this an isis inspired attack or is it just like any other work related attack? Like i said, if it's isis inspired why not scream the religious nonsense? Why fake an argument?

Can't it be both? Instead of "Going Postal", the latest trend will be "Going Muslim".

 

[Fennis]

the husband and wife shooters have a 6 month old baby.

 

[onionsack]

God isn't fixing this.

 

[bakes]

So I turned it back to MSNBC.

Just as Fox has guests on focused on Islamic terror, MSNBC has guests on focused on gun control. A guy from Think Progress was just on, very frustrated with Republican responses (thoughts and prayers) and noting how much in contributions each guy received from the NRA. He points out that a majority of Americans are in favor of more background checks and getting assault rifles off the street, yet it can't be done because the NRA prevents it. And to those who say we shouldn't discuss this right now, this guy says angrily "why not? Why not?"

And do you really think gun control would have prevented today?

Personally? I doubt it. I'm skeptical that any kind of gun control would ever prevent these mass shootings. I do think that background checks without limitation would reduce gun violence in general.

Certainly you shouldn't be on the no fly list and be able to legally get a firearm

Except for that whole 2nd Amendment thing

The words "well regulated" are not there for decoration...

 

[jamny]

http://news.yahoo.com/14-dead-17-wounded-california-081816288.html

So there was no 3rd shooter?

Baccari described Farook as reserved and said he showed no signs of unusual behavior. Earlier this year he traveled to Saudi Arabia and returned with a wife, later growing a beard, Baccari said.

 

[[icon]]

How difficult is it to purchase a fully automatic assault rifle? If it is semi-automatic, how difficult is it to convert it to fully automatic?

Nearly impossible (unless it is a curio or relic)Very possible, street gangs do it all the time

Agreed to legally purchase class III full auto usually is very expensive and time consuming. Rare I see them around randomly but very rarely.

Regarding modifying semi to full auto... From what I understand: Used to be relatively easy but not super reliable... Now it generally requires precise machining and often decreases reliability. From what I understand some of the common hacks are "tech9's with the firing pin in backwards, Glocks with grey market select fire back plates, and Mac 10/11s converted to open bolt" -redditt

Regarding how common it is... Not sure I'd say all the time. In 2012 there were 236,000 traces nationwide regarding firearms somehow "associated" with a crime (used or found on scene"... 679, a tiny fraction, were "machine guns".

In 2009 the state of California identified 3 fully auto firearms used in crime (oag.ca.gov)

Since the 1930s there have been 3 instances of legally owned/stamped full-auto weapons if in crimes and two of those were cops. Legally stamped FA firearms are not a problem.

DD is far more of an expert in there types of matters then I, but I did want to share that data.

 

[[icon]]

According to police chief, it likely wasn't a spur of the moment thing. There had to be an element of planning.

I don't get this... It's certainly possible, but where does the argument come in? Pre-planned Because they had AK's and Body Armor? I know lots of guys with both. I could have both delivered to me (by way of FFL) within a week.

It seems like he went to party, got pissed, went home. Then They walked in, shot up his coworkers, and drove home (or to a known house), right? Then when cops spotted them, they took off, shot at pursuing cops and got wasted?

I've admittedly taken a break from 10a-6a so I may have missed some developments.

From the sounds of it, this guy had the stuff on hand... And the argument triggered (pun) him to go jihadi. Perhaps there was some plan to do it eventually... The argument factor now makes me feel like he didn't wake up today with this plan...

 

[[icon]]

@th3j35t3r: #UPDATE LATEST RELEASE OF 'DABIQ JIHADI PROPAGANDA MAGAZINE HAS ALL ABOUT HOW TO CARRY OUT LONEWOLF ATTACKS & EXFIL TO CARRY OUT MORE. #JS

If true this supports today's actions... And a new trend of stringing stacks together rather than simply blowing oneself up. They're figuring out that ongoing attacks induce more terror than single bomb incidents.... And that it's a lot of effort to get someone into the desert and train them... When they can accomplish the same/more with remote training Online by capturing the minds of easily swayed and inducing them to action.

Frankly it's a hugely effective and unstoppable strategy. Short of "cutting off the head" and removing perceived strength, there's little you can do to stop it.

 

[whoknew]

So I turned it back to MSNBC.

Just as Fox has guests on focused on Islamic terror, MSNBC has guests on focused on gun control. A guy from Think Progress was just on, very frustrated with Republican responses (thoughts and prayers) and noting how much in contributions each guy received from the NRA. He points out that a majority of Americans are in favor of more background checks and getting assault rifles off the street, yet it can't be done because the NRA prevents it. And to those who say we shouldn't discuss this right now, this guy says angrily "why not? Why not?"

And do you really think gun control would have prevented today?

Personally? I doubt it. I'm skeptical that any kind of gun control would ever prevent these mass shootings. I do think that background checks without limitation would reduce gun violence in general.

Certainly you shouldn't be on the no fly list and be able to legally get a firearm

You should read more about the no fly list.

 

[[icon]]

Yeah the no fly list is hugely flawed and should not be used for this

 

[El Floppo]

According to police chief, it likely wasn't a spur of the moment thing. There had to be an element of planning.

I don't get this... It's certainly possible, but where does the argument come in? Pre-planned Because they had AK's and Body Armor? I know lots of guys with both. I could have both delivered to me (by way of FFL) within a week.

It seems like he went to party, got pissed, went home. Then They walked in, shot up his coworkers, and drove home (or to a known house), right? Then when cops spotted them, they took off, shot at pursuing cops and got wasted?

I've admittedly taken a break from 10a-6a so I may have missed some developments.

From the sounds of it, this guy had the stuff on hand... And the argument triggered (pun) him to go jihadi. Perhaps there was some plan to do it eventually... The argument factor now makes me feel like he didn't wake up today with this plan...

Cnn saying there was 3 pipe bombs linked to a remote control car in the center. Control for the car was in the suv.

I hear you about the argument implying door of the moment, but the bomb part seems a bit... planned. Unless you also know people who keep that kind of thing lying around.

 

[[icon]]

Missed the pipe bomb on RC car bit. Has that been confirmed? There were lots of reports of pipe bombs in houses and being thrown out of cars but most were redacted as far as I know.

Not doubting just curious... Like I said, I have been in dark since 10 or so, and generally avoided mainstream media yesterday for the most part anyway.,

 

[El Floppo]

Read it on the cnn main story this morning. So... not necessarily confirmed

 

[TPW]

@th3j35t3r: #UPDATE LATEST RELEASE OF 'DABIQ JIHADI PROPAGANDA MAGAZINE HAS ALL ABOUT HOW TO CARRY OUT LONEWOLF ATTACKS & EXFIL TO CARRY OUT MORE. #JS

If true this supports today's actions... And a new trend of stringing stacks together rather than simply blowing oneself up. They're figuring out that ongoing attacks induce more terror than single bomb incidents.... And that it's a lot of effort to get someone into the desert and train them... When they can accomplish the same/more with remote training Online by capturing the minds of easily swayed and inducing them to action.

Frankly it's a hugely effective and unstoppable strategy. Short of "cutting off the head" and removing perceived strength, there's little you can do to stop it.

This is what I said yesterday.

If a terrorist group really wanted the create a sense of fear in a populace then what better way than purely random killings? Remember the D.C. sniper shootings? It took three weeks to track down the perpetrators. Islamic jihadists, for example, need no more rationale other than most Americans are kafir in order to justify murder in their minds. It's been a concern of mine for many years that they would opt for that route instead of choosing more sensational attacks with a political message. I hope we aren't now witnessing a change in strategy.

Coming soon to a town near you. Unfortunately I think it's going to take a sizable number of attacks on Main Street U.S.A. and American lives lost before people with certain political agendas can no longer make excuses for it,

 

[Lupe]

maybe more than just these 2 involved? reports of 6 men at the home alot recently (which apparently has been described as a "IED factory"). I saw somewhere they also wore gopro's? this wasn't a spur of the moment thing.

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2015/12/02/authorities-search-redlands-home-tied-to-suspect-syed-farook/

 

[dirtyhalos]

https://www.facebook.com/fox11la/videos/10156286543420553/

 

[Slapdash]

Missed the pipe bomb on RC car bit. Has that been confirmed? There were lots of reports of pipe bombs in houses and being thrown out of cars but most were redacted as far as I know.

Not doubting just curious... Like I said, I have been in dark since 10 or so, and generally avoided mainstream media yesterday for the most part anyway.,

Ap says the pipe bomb thrown from car was a fake. But there is always so much misinformation early.

 

[matuski]

This is Syed Moizullah's last fave'd video...

6 days ago on youtube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQpVXAF0DNA

Religion.

Not sure what is wrong with that video, pretty much static like every other religious message I have ever heard. Not like that dude said to kill folks, he just said not to believe everything you hear.

Exactly. I wasn't commenting on motives, a youtube click 6 days ago isn't enough info to make that leap yet, but that video is stupid as hell. Pretty much like every other religious argument I have ever heard for religion appealing to reason.

Exactly the type of analogy you might hear here to argue for Christianity. Identical.

 

[VA703]

I don't see why it matters if they label it terrorism.

 

[whoknew]

I don't see why it matters if they label it terrorism.

It matters because the more the government can label terrorism, the more fear there is, and the greater the "War on Terrorism" becomes.

The more they label terrorism, the more money they get, and the fewer civil liberties we have.

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

I don't see why it matters if they label it terrorism.

It matters because the more the government can label terrorism, the more fear there is, and the greater the "War on Terrorism" becomes.

The more they label terrorism, the more money they get, and the fewer civil liberties we have.

Easy tin hat, nobody is coming for your guns...yet

 

[Otis]

I don't see why it matters if they label it terrorism.

It matters because the more the government can label terrorism, the more fear there is, and the greater the "War on Terrorism" becomes. The more they label terrorism, the more money they get, and the fewer civil liberties we have.

Yeah, maybe that. Or maybe the rest of us who weren't kilt are curious to know if this is a pattern we can expect within our borders versus a random act of violence.

 

[jamny]

I don't see why it matters if they label it terrorism.

It matters because the more the government can label terrorism, the more fear there is, and the greater the "War on Terrorism" becomes.

The more they label terrorism, the more money they get, and the fewer civil liberties we have.

So why didn't they call the Ft. Hood attack terrorism?

 

[otello]

So, is this terrorism or an act or terror?

 

[Courtjester]

So CNN wasreporting that the vehicle used was rented days before, so that kind of eliminates the whole idea this is a spur of the moment thing. But then again I'm sure they can backtrack on that later as they have on several things

 

[AAABatteries]

I'm pretty sure if I end up a victim of one of these shootings I'm not going to give a damn what they call it. I doubt my family will care that much either.

 

[AAABatteries]

Wow - reading that the shooters had GoPros on them. If that was posted here previously I missed it. Horrible - hopefully those videos are never seen other than by authorities.

 

[otello]

Are we allowed to offer thoughts and prayers or is that no longer appropriate? Just looking for guidance here.

 

[avoiding injuries]

Wow - reading that the shooters had GoPros on them. If that was posted here previously I missed it. Horrible - hopefully those videos are never seen other than by authorities.

I'd like to see the shootout in the SUV.

 

[Slapdash]

I don't see why it matters if they label it terrorism.

It is important to call things by the right name. This, along with the other stuff Dr D mentioned, are pretty obviously terrorism.

 

[Quez]

The gopro footage will never see the light of day if it exist. They must of expected to make it home and upload it.

 

[spreagle]

It doesn't exactly inspire confidence in governments ability to prevent terrorism when the government itself is hiring terrorists to work as health inspectors.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Wow - reading that the shooters had GoPros on them. If that was posted here previously I missed it. Horrible - hopefully those videos are never seen other than by authorities.

With the idea they would post it online and inspire others. Let's wait for the results of the computer forensics search shall we?

 

[Quez]

I saw something about the couple visiting Saudi Arabia. Was they woman from there? I read he had been on dating sites, so maybe he finally got a girl who happened to be a radicalized Muslim.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I don't see why it matters if they label it terrorism.

It is important to call things by the right name. This, along with the other stuff Dr D mentioned, are pretty obviously terrorism.

I agree with the first sentence.

I disagree with the second. Sandy Hook, for example, clearly wasn't terrorism (no ideological motive). It's too early say about the SB shooting.

 

[Slapdash]

The gopro footage will never see the light of day if it exist. They must of expected to make it home and upload it.

Didn't they make it home before the shoutout though?

 

[Buddy Ball 2K3]

The gopro footage will never see the light of day if it exist. They must of expected to make it home and upload it.

They were unaccounted for for almost 3-4 hours right?

 

[mr roboto]

It doesn't exactly inspire confidence in governments ability to prevent terrorism when the government itself is hiring terrorists to work as health inspectors.

Oh for ####s sake, really?

 

[Quez]

I didn't realize they were gone that long. So maybe they uploaded the video somewhere if they were working with others?

 

[avoiding injuries]

I saw something about the couple visiting Saudi Arabia. Was they woman from there? I read he had been on dating sites, so maybe he finally got a girl who happened to be a radicalized Muslim.

The news I heard on tv was that he went there to get her and bring her back.

 

[BroncoFreak_2K3]

Are we allowed to offer thoughts and prayers or is that no longer appropriate? Just looking for guidance here.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

This is more like a McVeigh homegrown terrorism act? McVeigh obviously killed a lot more folks but I don't see the connection to ISIS here and even if there is, nothing more than a brand that these folks obviously would support if they could.

These 2 people had to know they would end up dying, no one ever survives for long after they try these type of terror acts. So sad to not enjoy life at least to the point where killing 14 people, injuring 17 others and dying under a hail of police gunfire seems like a better option than packing a lunch and having a picnic with your girlfriend in the park.

 

[kface]

Again though if this is strictly about being radicalized, why the fight? why weren't they screaming religious nonsense?

 

[Joe T]

Are we allowed to offer thoughts and prayers or is that no longer appropriate? Just looking for guidance here.

Nah, you are too late. Usually day 2 is earmarked for timschochet to turn these threads into a gun control argument.

 

[Limp Ditka]

Are we allowed to offer thoughts and prayers or is that no longer appropriate? Just looking for guidance here.

I think the point is that when it's the only thing you do, it rings immensely hollow.

 

[jamny]

http://news.yahoo.com/14-dead-17-wounded-california-081816288.html

So there was no 3rd shooter?

Baccari described Farook as reserved and said he showed no signs of unusual behavior. Earlier this year he traveled to Saudi Arabia and returned with a wife, later growing a beard, Baccari said.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I think TPW may have said it earlier but sleeper cell is starting to make sense. Only I'm guessing something 'grander' may have originally been planned. Maybe Farooq just popped off and pulled the trigger early. Otoh with these morons it might not matter, they are to strike any target. County personnel, Christmas party, sure why not.