14 Killed in Shooting in San Bernardino (1 Viewer)

[Joe T]

Are we allowed to offer thoughts and prayers or is that no longer appropriate? Just looking for guidance here.

I think the point is that when it's the only thing you do, it rings immensely hallow.

Exhibit A

 

[pantagrapher]

The gopro footage will never see the light of day if it exist. They must of expected to make it home and upload it.

They were unaccounted for for almost 3-4 hours right?

And can't GoPros be set to upload directly to an external site? I know I can make photos from my digital camera load directly to Dropbox. If they were in cahoots with someone, this could be the plan.

 

[Limp Ditka]

Are we allowed to offer thoughts and prayers or is that no longer appropriate? Just looking for guidance here.

I think the point is that when it's the only thing you do, it rings immensely hallow.

Exhibit A

Yeah... That should say hollow... Stupid auto correct.

 

[Hang 10]

I don't see why it matters if they label it terrorism.

Because when we investigate crimes we look for a motive.

 

[TPW]

I think TPW may have said it earlier but sleeper cell is starting to make sense. Only I'm guessing something 'grander' may have originally been planned. Maybe Farooq just popped off and pulled the trigger early. Otoh with these morons it might not matter, they are to strike any target. County personnel, Christmas party, sure why not.

It sure seems like it. A trip to Saudi Arabia less than a year ago and a return with a wife and a child who is already six months old? An IED manufacturing facility inside their home? The pieces are all there.

What I'm dreading is that most Americans are not anywhere near psychologically prepared to deal with this kind of calculating, cold-bloodedness in their own backyard and will respond in a kind of collective Stockholm Syndrome which ultimately enables even more attacks.

 

[belljr]

Because I really don't understand. What is the end game for these guys?

Ok they kill a bunch of random non muslims? is the end game to have everyone convert?

Take over the world? leave them alone?

I just don't get it

Because I have to say I'm slowly becoming "scared" to leave my house and I know that is a net result.

It really is affecting me, and not just the terror groups but the idiots like the movie thater, etc etc

 

[Quez]

I saw something about the couple visiting Saudi Arabia. Was they woman from there? I read he had been on dating sites, so maybe he finally got a girl who happened to be a radicalized Muslim.

The news I heard on tv was that he went there to get her and bring her back.

This sounds like the most logical explanation. He couldn't find a woman in the US, not even on dating sites. Likely because he was pretty religious, and there just aren't many single Muslim chicks around here. He probably had resentment towards American women, and met a radical girl from SA.

If he was in that state of mind then he would be vulnerable to brainwashing and an easy mark.

Maybe a terrorist organization is using women to help radicalize American Muslim men?

 

[kface]

I saw something about the couple visiting Saudi Arabia. Was they woman from there? I read he had been on dating sites, so maybe he finally got a girl who happened to be a radicalized Muslim.

The news I heard on tv was that he went there to get her and bring her back.

This sounds like the most logical explanation. He couldn't find a woman in the US, not even on dating sites. Likely because he was pretty religious, and there just aren't many single Muslim chicks around here. He probably had resentment towards American women, and met a radical girl from SA.

If he was in that state of mind then he would be vulnerable to brainwashing and an easy mark.

Maybe a terrorist organization is using women to help radicalize American Muslim men?

again though why the argument? why did they hide their faces and not scream the religious nonsense (which i think you have to if you are a true believer)? I think they thought they might get away with it...

 

[beer 30]

Because I really don't understand. What is the end game for these guys?

Ok they kill a bunch of random non muslims? is the end game to have everyone convert?

Take over the world? leave them alone?

I just don't get it

Because I have to say I'm slowly becoming "scared" to leave my house and I know that is a net result.

It really is affecting me, and not just the terror groups but the idiots like the movie thater, etc etc

Go buy a gun (while you can). It will give you a sense of security a taser or a can of mace simply can't provide.

 

[sho nuff]

Young guy pissed at something and finds radical ####ers who get him gassed up to do stuff...hook him up with others to help with procuring supplies ?

Guy gets pissed over time and wants to be copy cat of isis type attack?

 

[Quez]

No "Allah Akbars"? Maybe they knew that would blow their cover, seeing as he was likely the only Muslim that worked there. Maybe they were trying to get away & strike again at a later date.

 

[sho nuff]

Have heard both US born and Pakistani

 

[whoknew]

I don't see why it matters if they label it terrorism.

It matters because the more the government can label terrorism, the more fear there is, and the greater the "War on Terrorism" becomes.

The more they label terrorism, the more money they get, and the fewer civil liberties we have.

Easy tin hat, nobody is coming for your guns...yet

I don't own a gun. No desire to own a gun.

But how do you think we get things like the Patriot Act? I mean - I'm not making this stuff up. You can read all about the police and govt abuses in the name of the War on Terror. And how that is tied to the War on Drugs.

 

[belljr]

Because I really don't understand. What is the end game for these guys?

Ok they kill a bunch of random non muslims? is the end game to have everyone convert?

Take over the world? leave them alone?

I just don't get it

Because I have to say I'm slowly becoming "scared" to leave my house and I know that is a net result.

It really is affecting me, and not just the terror groups but the idiots like the movie thater, etc etc

Go buy a gun (while you can). It will give you a sense of security a taser or a can of mace simply can't provide.

Yeah a gun sitting in my house won't make me feel better.

 

[fred_1_15301]

Because I really don't understand. What is the end game for these guys?

Ok they kill a bunch of random non muslims? is the end game to have everyone convert?

Take over the world? leave them alone?

I just don't get it

Because I have to say I'm slowly becoming "scared" to leave my house and I know that is a net result.

It really is affecting me, and not just the terror groups but the idiots like the movie thater, etc etc

Go buy a gun (while you can). It will give you a sense of security a taser or a can of mace simply can't provide.

Yeah a gun sitting in my house won't make me feel better.

But you need to take that gun with you everywhere you go........

 

[belljr]

Because I really don't understand. What is the end game for these guys?

Ok they kill a bunch of random non muslims? is the end game to have everyone convert?

Take over the world? leave them alone?

I just don't get it

Because I have to say I'm slowly becoming "scared" to leave my house and I know that is a net result.

It really is affecting me, and not just the terror groups but the idiots like the movie thater, etc etc

Go buy a gun (while you can). It will give you a sense of security a taser or a can of mace simply can't provide.

Yeah a gun sitting in my house won't make me feel better.

But you need to take that gun with you everywhere you go........

Lol ....not a legal option around these partsNot that it matters

 

[jamny]

Because I really don't understand. What is the end game for these guys?

Ok they kill a bunch of random non muslims? is the end game to have everyone convert?

Take over the world? leave them alone?

I just don't get it

Because I have to say I'm slowly becoming "scared" to leave my house and I know that is a net result.

It really is affecting me, and not just the terror groups but the idiots like the movie thater, etc etc

This is obviously all really affecting you bro, but you can't live like that. Maybe turn off the news and avoid the internet when things like this happen. Life is too beautiful and precious to have these scumbags ruin it for you.

GLGB

 

[timschochet]

Good morning.

Yesterday I doubted this was an act of terrorism, mainly because it was San Bernardino. Now I think I was probably wrong. Husband and wife, devout Muslims, visit Saudi Arabia beforehand, spray bullets indiscriminately- unfortunately it all seems to add up to terrorism either of the "lone wolf" variety (inspired by a group like ISIS or al-Qaeda but not planned by them) or actually planned by them. I would guess the former.

Still hope it isn't though...

 

[fred_1_15301]

Because I really don't understand. What is the end game for these guys?

Ok they kill a bunch of random non muslims? is the end game to have everyone convert?

Take over the world? leave them alone?

I just don't get it

Because I have to say I'm slowly becoming "scared" to leave my house and I know that is a net result.

It really is affecting me, and not just the terror groups but the idiots like the movie thater, etc etc

Go buy a gun (while you can). It will give you a sense of security a taser or a can of mace simply can't provide.

Yeah a gun sitting in my house won't make me feel better.

But you need to take that gun with you everywhere you go........

Lol ....not a legal option around these parts

lol I know. I wasn't really being serious. I guess you could also just realize that dying from something like cancer or heart disease is far, far more likely than dying from a random (or non-random) act of violence.

 

[Buddy Ball 2K3]

Because I really don't understand. What is the end game for these guys?

Ok they kill a bunch of random non muslims? is the end game to have everyone convert?

Take over the world? leave them alone?

I just don't get it

Because I have to say I'm slowly becoming "scared" to leave my house and I know that is a net result.

It really is affecting me, and not just the terror groups but the idiots like the movie thater, etc etc

Go buy a gun (while you can). It will give you a sense of security a taser or a can of mace simply can't provide.

Yeah a gun sitting in my house won't make me feel better.

But you need to take that gun with you everywhere you go........

LTC!

 

[Nathan R. Jessep]

so what happened to the third guy they had cornered in a house?

 

[pantagrapher]

I think TPW may have said it earlier but sleeper cell is starting to make sense. Only I'm guessing something 'grander' may have originally been planned. Maybe Farooq just popped off and pulled the trigger early. Otoh with these morons it might not matter, they are to strike any target. County personnel, Christmas party, sure why not.

It sure seems like it. A trip to Saudi Arabia less than a year ago and a return with a wife and a child who is already six months old? An IED manufacturing facility inside their home? The pieces are all there.

What I'm dreading is that most Americans are not anywhere near psychologically prepared to deal with this kind of calculating, cold-bloodedness in their own backyard and will respond in a kind of collective Stockholm Syndrome which ultimately enables even more attacks.

 

[Limp Ditka]

Good morning.

Yesterday I doubted this was an act of terrorism, mainly because it was San Bernardino. Now I think I was probably wrong. Husband and wife, devout Muslims, visit Saudi Arabia beforehand, spray bullets indiscriminately- unfortunately it all seems to add up to terrorism either of the "lone wolf" variety (inspired by a group like ISIS or al-Qaeda but not planned by them) or actually planned by them. I would guess the former.

Still hope it isn't though...

FFS, Tim. It's terrorism

 

[AAABatteries]

Wow - reading that the shooters had GoPros on them. If that was posted here previously I missed it. Horrible - hopefully those videos are never seen other than by authorities.

With the idea they would post it online and inspire others. Let's wait for the results of the computer forensics search shall we?

What? I don't know what your last sentence means. What am I not waiting on?

 

[kOOk]

Good morning.

Yesterday I doubted . . .

Do you really take yourself this seriously?

 

[comfortably numb]

Good morning.

Yesterday I doubted this was an act of terrorism, mainly because it was San Bernardino. Now I think I was probably wrong. Husband and wife, devout Muslims, visit Saudi Arabia beforehand, spray bullets indiscriminately- unfortunately it all seems to add up to terrorism either of the "lone wolf" variety (inspired by a group like ISIS or al-Qaeda but not planned by them) or actually planned by them. I would guess the former.

Still hope it isn't though...

Hey Tim, Good morning.

 

[Quez]

I'm surprised that no terrorists organizations have taken credit for this. Even if they weren't involved, the perps are dead, so its not like they would dispute it. Take credit for this, have the same impact as if you actually had carry out the attack, and not have to mastermind anything.

 

[timschochet]

Good morning.

Yesterday I doubted . . .

Do you really take yourself this seriously?

No.

 

[sho nuff]

Good morning.

Yesterday I doubted . . .

Do you really take yourself this seriously?

Does anyone take you seriously?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Wow - reading that the shooters had GoPros on them. If that was posted here previously I missed it. Horrible - hopefully those videos are never seen other than by authorities.

With the idea they would post it online and inspire others. Let's wait for the results of the computer forensics search shall we?

What? I don't know what your last sentence means. What am I not waiting on?

Sorry, I didn't mean 'you'/ 'us' personally. I just meant that the feds are going to get into Farooq's computer and they will find his online traffic, any downloaded videos, any writings, emails, etc. My guess is when they do they will find Isis material, or some Awlaki type messenger/imam behind all this.

 

[Buddy Ball 2K3]

Good morning.

Yesterday I doubted . . .

Do you really take yourself this seriously?

Kook meet Tim, Tim meet Kook

 

[The Commish]

Good morning.

Yesterday I doubted this was an act of terrorism, mainly because it was San Bernardino. Now I think I was probably wrong. Husband and wife, devout Muslims, visit Saudi Arabia beforehand, spray bullets indiscriminately- unfortunately it all seems to add up to terrorism either of the "lone wolf" variety (inspired by a group like ISIS or al-Qaeda but not planned by them) or actually planned by them. I would guess the former.

Still hope it isn't though...

FFS, Tim. It's terrorism

The ONLY reason the "why" matters here is for political gain. I hate the event coverage on these things because it always focuses on the aggressors minimizing the victims. It happens every single time. The media makes these people "famous" and the government uses it as an opportunity to score political points and/or play the fear card for future points to be scored. It's sad and embarrassing.

 

[TPW]

Apologies if this has already been posted.

Authorities Search Redlands Home Tied To Suspect Syed Farook

A man who has been working in the area said he noticed a half-dozen Middle Eastern men in the area in recent weeks, but decided not to report anything since he did not wish to racially profile those people.

 

[BroncoFreak_2K3]

Good morning.

Yesterday I doubted . . .

Do you really take yourself this seriously?

Kook meet Tim, Tim meet Kook

One in the same, no?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Apologies if this has already been posted.

Authorities Search Redlands Home Tied To Suspect Syed Farook

A man who has been working in the area said he noticed a half-dozen Middle Eastern men in the area in recent weeks, but decided not to report anything since he did not wish to racially profile those people.

“We sat around lunch thinking, ‘What were they doing around the neighborhood?'” he said. “We’d see them leave where they’re raiding the apartment.”

So a wider cell is possible.

Hadn't they moved in just recently? Middle eastern family moves into modest (the home is around $150K, 900sf, if that) home, there's a beehive of activity, lights and work going on late in the garage, more middle eastern men coming and going. That really could just be a typical family moving in.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

so what happened to the third guy they had cornered in a house?

I think they still have him detained, no word on what his role is/was.

 

[beer 30]

I think TPW may have said it earlier but sleeper cell is starting to make sense. Only I'm guessing something 'grander' may have originally been planned. Maybe Farooq just popped off and pulled the trigger early. Otoh with these morons it might not matter, they are to strike any target. County personnel, Christmas party, sure why not.

It sure seems like it. A trip to Saudi Arabia less than a year ago and a return with a wife and a child who is already six months old? An IED manufacturing facility inside their home? The pieces are all there.

What I'm dreading is that most Americans are not anywhere near psychologically prepared to deal with this kind of calculating, cold-bloodedness in their own backyard and will respond in a kind of collective Stockholm Syndrome which ultimately enables even more attacks.

Not gonna lie, I volunteer at a place like I'm sure a lot of other folks do on the boards that is ripe for something like this to happen. The last few weeks have really made me play out the 'what if' scenario to the point I am calling a meeting this weekend to discuss it with the other volunteers there. We have virtually no plan of evacuation or response aside from call 911 immediately. We are literally a block away from the main police department for the town so response time would be minutes but it would still be too late. Gotta have a plan.

 

[JZilla]

Good morning.

Yesterday I doubted this was an act of terrorism, mainly because it was San Bernardino. Now I think I was probably wrong. Husband and wife, devout Muslims, visit Saudi Arabia beforehand, spray bullets indiscriminately- unfortunately it all seems to add up to terrorism either of the "lone wolf" variety (inspired by a group like ISIS or al-Qaeda but not planned by them) or actually planned by them. I would guess the former.

Still hope it isn't though...

FFS, Tim. It's terrorism

The ONLY reason the "why" matters here is for political gain. I hate the event coverage on these things because it always focuses on the aggressors minimizing the victims. It happens every single time. The media makes these people "famous" and the government uses it as an opportunity to score political points and/or play the fear card for future points to be scored. It's sad and embarrassing.

Points all around on this one! Mazel tov, everybody

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

the husband and wife shooters have a 6 month old baby.

Imagine being that kid when it is old enough to understand this information.

 

[timschochet]

Regarding gun control issues:

Two rifles legally purchased by a guy who was not a felon and who was not on any mental health watchlist. I believe in increasing background checks, but it's pretty clear it would have had NO effect on this shooting.

There then remains the question of whether or not to make all assault rifles illegal. Putting aside for the moment the impractibility of such a proposal, couldn't the couple have done just as much damage with two semi-automatic pistols? I don't know, but I suspect that is the case. AK-47s look scarier, but that in itself doesn't seem like a good rationale for banning them.

 

[timschochet]

the husband and wife shooters have a 6 month old baby.

Imagine being that kid when it is old enough to understand this information.

According to Mr. Trump, we should kill this baby as a lesson: http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/02/politics/donald-trump-terrorists-families/index.html

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Good morning.

Yesterday I doubted this was an act of terrorism, mainly because it was San Bernardino. Now I think I was probably wrong. Husband and wife, devout Muslims, visit Saudi Arabia beforehand, spray bullets indiscriminately- unfortunately it all seems to add up to terrorism either of the "lone wolf" variety (inspired by a group like ISIS or al-Qaeda but not planned by them) or actually planned by them. I would guess the former.

Still hope it isn't though...

FFS, Tim. It's terrorism

The ONLY reason the "why" matters here is for political gain. I hate the event coverage on these things because it always focuses on the aggressors minimizing the victims. It happens every single time. The media makes these people "famous" and the government uses it as an opportunity to score political points and/or play the fear card for future points to be scored. It's sad and embarrassing.

I'm just going to say there has been no word on the victims yet. I agree it would be good to post them when it's available and just talk about who they were. There will also be heroes who saved others, I think there is a video of a cop leading citizens out of a building, and he says 'don't worry, I will take a bullet for you before I let you get hit.' Hero. There is a lot of good in the world, they are more worthy of mentioning than the sck bstrds who did this.

eta - btw when the politicians in these things left and right post their condolences or make charges about changing the law left (gun control!) or right (surveillance, refugees!) see if they use their enormous twitter and email power to drive traffic to the fundraising sites for the victims. Doubt it.

 

[Doug B]

Ap says the pipe bomb thrown from car was a fake. But there is always so much misinformation early.

Yeah ... I didn't think pipe bombs worked this way, where you could just chuck them at someone and count on an explosion at the exact right time you want it (like, say, with a grenade).

 

[chauncey]

Again though if this is strictly about being radicalized, why the fight? why weren't they screaming religious nonsense?

The Boston Bombers didn't scream Islamic nonsense or blow themselves up at the original scene of terrorism. They evaded law enforcement for a period of time then fought back and went down in a blaze of glory.

Several of the Paris attackers got away before getting caught hours/days later as well. Maybe Islamic terrorists are evolving.

The fact that CNN, politicians, and people on social media are still discussing workplace violence and gun control after all the info released on this is hard to comprehend.

 

[Cold Dead Hands]

Regarding gun control issues:

Two rifles legally purchased by a guy who was not a felon and who was not on any mental health watchlist. I believe in increasing background checks, but it's pretty clear it would have had NO effect on this shooting.

There then remains the question of whether or not to make all assault rifles illegal. Putting aside for the moment the impractibility of such a proposal, couldn't the couple have done just as much damage with two semi-automatic pistols? I don't know, but I suspect that is the case. AK-47s look scarier, but that in itself doesn't seem like a good rationale for banning them.

The magazine for the AKs hold more. So more bullets before loading a new magazine.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Ap says the pipe bomb thrown from car was a fake. But there is always so much misinformation early.

Yeah ... I didn't think pipe bombs worked this way, where you could just chuck them at someone and count on an explosion at the exact right time you want it (like, say, with a grenade).

The cops definitely defused a device that had been left at the center.

 

[timschochet]

Regarding gun control issues:

Two rifles legally purchased by a guy who was not a felon and who was not on any mental health watchlist. I believe in increasing background checks, but it's pretty clear it would have had NO effect on this shooting.

There then remains the question of whether or not to make all assault rifles illegal. Putting aside for the moment the impractibility of such a proposal, couldn't the couple have done just as much damage with two semi-automatic pistols? I don't know, but I suspect that is the case. AK-47s look scarier, but that in itself doesn't seem like a good rationale for banning them.

The magazine for the AKs hold more. So more bullets before loading a new magazine.

So because of that would you be in favor of making AK-47s illegal to own?

 

[timschochet]

the husband and wife shooters have a 6 month old baby.

Imagine being that kid when it is old enough to understand this information.

According to Mr. Trump, we should kill this baby as a lesson:http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/02/politics/donald-trump-terrorists-families/index.html

This is pretty low for you.

Low for ME? I'm not the one who suggested it.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

couldn't the couple have done just as much damage with two semi-automatic pistols?

Essentially yes.

 

[culdeus]

Well at least add the baby to the database.