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***2011 Chicago Bears Regular Season Thread*** (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter CutlerToCutler
- Start date
The pre-season will be huge for him. He can make this team as the 4th DE, but he'll have to show up on film in the games.
I'm not believing that yet. I think the Bears/Tice have a lineup for tonight's game against Buffalo and will adjust it, if necessary going forward. I think they want to avoid the shuffling that last season had in the 1st half so that's why he set a starting lineup, but that lineup can, and probably will change.Looks like Chris Spencer will be riding the pine for a cool 3 mil, more money well spent. Maybe next time we can go out and get a starter. Just a thought...
flapgreen
Footballguy
They had to shuffle last year because they sucked. If Spencer doesn't make it into the starting lineup over the first few games, it will be another waste of money, just like Mannymulu and Taylor from last year. I really hope the lineup changes and we add another couple of veteran lineman before the season begins, but I have no reason to believe we will. The current inexperience and suckitude of our current line and lack of depth is a disaster waiting to happen. Starting lineup aside, who are the backups? J.C. Brigone, Edwin Williams, Josh Davis, Johan Asiata, Levi Horn? Who??? Omlete is the only backup who's even played over a couple of games.I'm not believing that yet. I think the Bears/Tice have a lineup for tonight's game against Buffalo and will adjust it, if necessary going forward. I think they want to avoid the shuffling that last season had in the 1st half so that's why he set a starting lineup, but that lineup can, and probably will change.Looks like Chris Spencer will be riding the pine for a cool 3 mil, more money well spent. Maybe next time we can go out and get a starter. Just a thought...
They also went into the season with Chris Williams at LT despite warning signs in last year's pre-season that he was a risk. They didn't know where Omiyale could play and had issues inside as well. To most, it looked like they went into the season not sure what they had, and, yes, they sucked, but they also didn't have players locked into their eventual positions until about halfway through the season. They want to avoid that this year.I think this is probably our line, and like you I'm concerned. They are going with their young players, and hoping they pay off. Can Webb play LT? Tice thinks so. Can Carimi play RT? Probably a decent chance that he'll be a solid pro but he's still a rookie. Lance Louis and Chris Williams are questions inside and Garza is their new rock. Lots of questions for sure, and it may not be any better. They tried on Bushrod and Colon, failed on both, and now this is what they have to protect Cutler and run Mart'z system though addding the blocking TE should help some.As for the backups, you can probably say something similar with teams across the league. If you can play, you're probably in the stating lineup.They had to shuffle last year because they sucked. If Spencer doesn't make it into the starting lineup over the first few games, it will be another waste of money, just like Mannymulu and Taylor from last year. I really hope the lineup changes and we add another couple of veteran lineman before the season begins, but I have no reason to believe we will. The current inexperience and suckitude of our current line and lack of depth is a disaster waiting to happen. Starting lineup aside, who are the backups? J.C. Brigone, Edwin Williams, Josh Davis, Johan Asiata, Levi Horn? Who??? Omlete is the only backup who's even played over a couple of games.I'm not believing that yet. I think the Bears/Tice have a lineup for tonight's game against Buffalo and will adjust it, if necessary going forward. I think they want to avoid the shuffling that last season had in the 1st half so that's why he set a starting lineup, but that lineup can, and probably will change.Looks like Chris Spencer will be riding the pine for a cool 3 mil, more money well spent. Maybe next time we can go out and get a starter. Just a thought...
flapgreen
Footballguy
They also went into the season with Chris Williams at LT despite warning signs in last year's pre-season that he was a risk. They didn't know where Omiyale could play and had issues inside as well. To most, it looked like they went into the season not sure what they had, and, yes, they sucked, but they also didn't have players locked into their eventual positions until about halfway through the season. They want to avoid that this year.I think this is probably our line, and like you I'm concerned. They are going with their young players, and hoping they pay off. Can Webb play LT? Tice thinks so. Can Carimi play RT? Probably a decent chance that he'll be a solid pro but he's still a rookie. Lance Louis and Chris Williams are questions inside and Garza is their new rock. Lots of questions for sure, and it may not be any better. They tried on Bushrod and Colon, failed on both, and now this is what they have to protect Cutler and run Mart'z system though addding the blocking TE should help some.As for the backups, you can probably say something similar with teams across the league. If you can play, you're probably in the stating lineup.They had to shuffle last year because they sucked. If Spencer doesn't make it into the starting lineup over the first few games, it will be another waste of money, just like Mannymulu and Taylor from last year. I really hope the lineup changes and we add another couple of veteran lineman before the season begins, but I have no reason to believe we will. The current inexperience and suckitude of our current line and lack of depth is a disaster waiting to happen. Starting lineup aside, who are the backups? J.C. Brigone, Edwin Williams, Josh Davis, Johan Asiata, Levi Horn? Who??? Omlete is the only backup who's even played over a couple of games.I'm not believing that yet. I think the Bears/Tice have a lineup for tonight's game against Buffalo and will adjust it, if necessary going forward. I think they want to avoid the shuffling that last season had in the 1st half so that's why he set a starting lineup, but that lineup can, and probably will change.Looks like Chris Spencer will be riding the pine for a cool 3 mil, more money well spent. Maybe next time we can go out and get a starter. Just a thought...
Except I don't think they tried that hard for Colon. I didn't know they tried for Bushrod. I know they offered Colon more money but it was minimal and not enough reason to leave Pitt, or he would have. If they would've went into free agency with any more than a half-hearted try at a decent offensive linemen, I would've been happy, but that didn't happen. Most of that has to fall on Angelo. I think Tice is doing the best with what he has, which isn't much. I'm sure he's thinking, "Holy ####! We're going to get killed again and there's nothing I can do about it. :facepalm:"
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flapgreen
Footballguy
Okay, the Bears are idiots. And they've demonstrated that fact early. WTF would they kick off from the 30 when they have the option to kick off from the 35? The ball comes out to the 27 when I haven't seen a kick returned that far in any of the other games I've watched so far.
Brilliant. And that little stunt injured Corey Wootton.
is Chester Taylor safe?
He was the 2nd RB in the game but only picked up 3 yards on 3 carries while Barber and K.Bell both looked great.
He was the 2nd RB in the game but only picked up 3 yards on 3 carries while Barber and K.Bell both looked great.
flapgreen
Footballguy
He's very unsafe. Forte and Barber are the definitive first and seconder stringers. They paid Barber the money to be a backup to Forte and a goal line guy. As you said, Bell also looked great and he's cheaper than Taylor. Taylor is as good as gone at this point. I don't know anyone who thinks otherwise.eta: Unga even looked good.
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flapgreen
Footballguy
If someone can slip some good drugs into Martz and Tice's drinks, they might put Spencer in the starting lineup by the beginning of the season. He looked very good tonight. Get Louis's butt out of there too. He looked pathetic. Webb looked awful too but we don't have anyone to put in his place any better. 
eta: Can't they pick up Davis or Waters for cheap to play on the left side. That was horrible. 9 sacks given up on the night.
eta: Can't they pick up Davis or Waters for cheap to play on the left side. That was horrible. 9 sacks given up on the night.
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Power Monster
The Midnight Stalker
Essentially the same team we saw last year with some different names. Maybe the Bears should just run the ball all the time? Looks like you are going to see solid defense, solid special teams, more sacks, break away runs, decent passing numbers at times and then when it counts- the flaws will be exposed. WSCR is talking about how great Mike Tice is AGAIN! 9 sacks? Yes- just a pre-season game but come on!
flapgreen
Footballguy
The whole "Mike Tice is an offensive line genius" garbage is a myth. I've never understood it. He hasn't been an O Line coach in ten years, and that was with the high powered Vikings offense with Moss and Culpepper. After he said Lance Louis was an elite pass blocker last week, I lost all respect for him. He has done absolutely nothing so far. I know he hasn't had much to work with, but you would think a "guru" could've done more last season than give up ten more sacks than the second worst team. It's time to give that nonsense a rest.
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johnnyboy8102
Footballguy
At least Okoye showed something.
RBM
Footballguy
This thread is depressing, just wanted to get that out of the way.
How the hell is Lance Louis starting? Is that for real? Put Spencer at the damn center position and put Garza where he belongs at RG. This is insane to me. On a line with not much talent, you take the guy that did the best job last year and move him.
How the hell is Lance Louis starting? Is that for real? Put Spencer at the damn center position and put Garza where he belongs at RG. This is insane to me. On a line with not much talent, you take the guy that did the best job last year and move him.
flapgreen
Footballguy
Craziness.Eta: It is depressing, which mostly falls on me.
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twistd
Footballguy
Better question is why is Webb starting? Granted, you have young players in Louis and Webb that you want to develop. But it would seem that neither is very good. At least what we have seen from them so far is not encouraging. I don't know what the organization sees that we don't. They seem to have painted themselves in to a corner with no other choices than what they have. Carimi may be an eventual replacement at LT, but it probably isn't a good idea to move him now. Webb was terrible at RT last year.You are right, this is depressing. But what depresses me is that the Bears don't seem to see what we see. I think Tice is a very good coach, but imagine what he could do if you gave him a bunch of good players. Instead the Bears keep insisting that the line and the receivers will be fine when all the evidence is to the contrary. And this is a good place to air our frustrations with people who care like we do.
Power Monster
The Midnight Stalker
Jumping Jerry does very little that makes sense when it comes to the offense. He is a great spin master selling the fans a bill of goods. The Bears will only go so far to make it interesting enough to keep the turnstyle moving and if that means they win a division title- icing on the cake. I absolutely question the passion and the determination of the FRONT OF THE HOUSE to put a championship team on the field. This pathetic offensive line situation has been a mess for MANY MANY YEARS and they give us this? And then spin some crap about how MIKE TICE is a genius? One other little tidbit- who the heck does this bum Chester Taylor think he is fooling? He gets paid a ton of dough to basically stink up the joint? If Matt Forte holds out or gets hurt we are going to be looking at left over Cowboy bums, a lame offensive line and sacks galore on Jay Cutler and being sold a bill of goods that Mike Tice and Mike Martz are the real deal? This sounds like Chicago Cub rhetoric. Sell tradition and put out an average team year after year...Is there any reason at all why we aren't signing Brian Waters to a one year deal? He made the Pro Bowl at guard last year and he's still available, or would that make too much sense.
geoff8695
Footballguy
As much abuse as they take, I don't blame the coaches for the talent on hand. While I don't mean to gloss over Lovie's and Martz's warts, and I believe this coaching staff is a strength that helped take this team to the NFC title game last season.
In 2011 the Bears still have a solid all-around coaching staff, great special teams, a damn good defense, and a talented QB and RB stable. Lovie is still one of the most beloved head coaches in the NFL (by his players) and is exceptional at getting his teams ready for game day and getting everyone to buy in to the program. On the flipside, he is an awful game manager. Fortunately, the quality of the coaching staff helps offset this deficiency. Having Tice, Marinelli, Martz, and Co. is a huge plus, and contributes to putting players in a position to succeed IMO (with the one possible exception being Martz).
Certainly the o-line is still dog crap, but if Tice can keep patching together a make-shift o-line, and if Martz is reigned in and held accountable for calling a balanced offensive game plan, then they are still good enough to make the most of their quality defense and special teams. The biggest intangible as far is I'm concerned is forcing Martz to game plan according to the talent on hand. When he does, Martz is actually a great play caller, and a stark contrast to past Bears' offensive coordinators who were far too vanilla and unimaginative. He just needs to be held in check and not allowed to neglect the running game, or subject his QB to excessive seven step drops behind a poor pass blocking line. If those things happen (as they did after the first 6 games last season, and except for the 2nd half of the very winnable finale at GB where Forte had been killing the Packers, until Martz decided to fool them by throwing the ball exclusively and departed from what was working so well
).
In 2011 the Bears still have a solid all-around coaching staff, great special teams, a damn good defense, and a talented QB and RB stable. Lovie is still one of the most beloved head coaches in the NFL (by his players) and is exceptional at getting his teams ready for game day and getting everyone to buy in to the program. On the flipside, he is an awful game manager. Fortunately, the quality of the coaching staff helps offset this deficiency. Having Tice, Marinelli, Martz, and Co. is a huge plus, and contributes to putting players in a position to succeed IMO (with the one possible exception being Martz).
Certainly the o-line is still dog crap, but if Tice can keep patching together a make-shift o-line, and if Martz is reigned in and held accountable for calling a balanced offensive game plan, then they are still good enough to make the most of their quality defense and special teams. The biggest intangible as far is I'm concerned is forcing Martz to game plan according to the talent on hand. When he does, Martz is actually a great play caller, and a stark contrast to past Bears' offensive coordinators who were far too vanilla and unimaginative. He just needs to be held in check and not allowed to neglect the running game, or subject his QB to excessive seven step drops behind a poor pass blocking line. If those things happen (as they did after the first 6 games last season, and except for the 2nd half of the very winnable finale at GB where Forte had been killing the Packers, until Martz decided to fool them by throwing the ball exclusively and departed from what was working so well
).
flapgreen
Footballguy
You're asking Martz to do the opposite of what he has done for his entire career. If you think he is going to do that for an entire season, I think you are being unrealistic. It's not who he is. Meanwhile, the line is no better than it was last year.
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geoff8695
Footballguy
He did it last season and called some decent games using a balanced attack.
Granted it reportedly took a closed door meeting with Lovie and Tice. No reason to believe they can't do it again.
flapgreen
Footballguy
I'm not that optimistic he will do that again for an entire season, but I hope I'm wrong. It took a few games last year for Martz to even adjust the game plan, and even that seemed to take more than just Lovie encouraging him to change it. The head coach and offensive coordinator don't seem to be on the same page, and that's never a good thing. Let's be honest. We caught some breaks last year. If the line is anywhere as near as bad as it was last year, the team is in serious trouble, along with Jay's life. Most didn't notice, but the line still allowed 28 sacks over the last 8 games of the regular season, and that was with a balanced offense. If they will plug in Spencer at center, move Garza to right guard, and pick up someone like Waters to play left guard, I'll feel much better. Louis plays like he's wearing roller skates. Webb plays like he weighs 600 pounds and can't bend his hips and knees over 10 degrees. Chris Williams name wasn't mentioned last night, so I guess that's a good thing. I don't know what we're going to do with Webb, because there are no other options at LT. I don't doubt his effort, but there's a reason he was drafted in the 7th round. But I'm sure Tice and the front office are way to busy developing the young guys and helping them "gel" to bother with all of those things.As an aside, whether Bowman is hurt badly or not, I still think we should go after Hayden.He did it last season and called some decent games using a balanced attack.
FavreCo
Footballguy
Mike Martz 1st line in his resume: "I leave a path of detruction behind me".Olsen in the Carolina game. I hope he has 1500 yards this season. The damage from losing Olsen will be felt long after Martz's ####### is gone.
Power Monster
The Midnight Stalker
This team needs to give Forte what he is looking for and just pound the ball. This is what they want to do, this is what the fans expect and this is why they are not a balanced offensive team. No wonder the trophy case has been lonely for 25 plus years. Also- the defensive line is solid but what about the corners? Are they good enough to stop Rodgers and company?'geoff8695 said:He did it last season and called some decent games using a balanced attack.'flapgreen said:
boubucarow
Footballguy
Last year the Bears picked off Rodgers 4 times in 3 games and held him below his final YPA in all 3 games. Stopping the Packers passing game isn't the Bear's major problem in the match up.This team needs to give Forte what he is looking for and just pound the ball. This is what they want to do, this is what the fans expect and this is why they are not a balanced offensive team. No wonder the trophy case has been lonely for 25 plus years. Also- the defensive line is solid but what about the corners? Are they good enough to stop Rodgers and company?'geoff8695 said:He did it last season and called some decent games using a balanced attack.'flapgreen said:
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flapgreen
Footballguy
Why ask why?
Power Monster
The Midnight Stalker
Good points but they just ran the ball on the Bears with success in the NFCC game and laid the lumber on them with the defense. The offensive melt downs will cost the Bears again and again. I am trying to be optimistic and I think that the defense will have a solid year but the offense looks so one dimensional at times and then they look like very good as evidenced by the Jets game last year but even in that game- Cutler- pick 6.Last year the Bears picked off Rodgers 4 times in 3 games and held him below his final YPA in all 3 games. Stopping the Packers passing game isn't the Bear's major problem in the match up.This team needs to give Forte what he is looking for and just pound the ball. This is what they want to do, this is what the fans expect and this is why they are not a balanced offensive team. No wonder the trophy case has been lonely for 25 plus years. Also- the defensive line is solid but what about the corners? Are they good enough to stop Rodgers and company?'geoff8695 said:He did it last season and called some decent games using a balanced attack.'flapgreen said:
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boubucarow
Footballguy
I wish the offense had at least one dimension at times. For the last few years, I have been in wait and see mode without much thought given to how well they will do. The pure ineptness of this offense for years now prevents me from believing in them but some how some way they end up winning divisions and deep in the playoffs. I suspect the defense will be as good as it has been the last few years with the possibility that Melton (and lesser extent Okoye) gives it an interior pass rush upside it lost with Harris' demise. The special teams might take a knock in their kickoff return edge but I suspect that unit will favor the Bears in most contests. I can talk about those sides of the ball all day. As for offense, it is wait and see. Hopefully see something useful.
twistd
Footballguy
Webb was terrible at RT. I don't understand how that means moving him to LT will make the situation better. Carimi is probably a RT. I think if other teams thought he was a solid LT prospect he wouldn't have lasted as long as he did in the draft. I think that you leave him where he is for now and let him grow. Then see if he has the potential to play LT. I don't like seeing a rookie bounced around the line, particularly when they didn't have OTAs to prepare. I think the LT spot is going to be trouble all year. The Bears put all their eggs in Webb's basket counting on him to be effective at the LT spot. I'm not sure what they saw to give them the idea that this would work.Until further notice, put Webb at back at RT and move Carimi to LT. I don't care if Carimi was drafted as a RT, he's better than Webb's fat butt at LT, and Webb is better at RT than he is at LT. It sucks to move Carimi to LT, but it's better than Cutler getting murdered.
DoubleG
Footballguy
A few things about the O-line and why not to start wringing your hands or calling for Tice's head on a platter.
First off, the missed time due to the lockout hurt O-lines worse than probably any other position - especially ones that had new guys and/or guys working in new spots (which is why many were screaming that Kruetz should have been kept anyway). I takes some time and reps for an o-line to "gel".
Secondly, imho, the Bears didn't want to sign Spencer then hand him the starting job. If he is not the starting center by preseason week 3, I'll be shocked. But either way, give the o-line situation some time to work itself out - both from a playing stand point and a lineup stand point. Tice had a patch work line (which was less talented, imho, than the current group) playing at a decent level by the end of last season. I see no reason not to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Let the preseason run it's course. If this had been week 1 of the regular season, I would be terrified. For now, I am willing to let Tice see what he needs to, make adjustments as necessary and prepare for the season's open in a month.
First off, the missed time due to the lockout hurt O-lines worse than probably any other position - especially ones that had new guys and/or guys working in new spots (which is why many were screaming that Kruetz should have been kept anyway). I takes some time and reps for an o-line to "gel".
Secondly, imho, the Bears didn't want to sign Spencer then hand him the starting job. If he is not the starting center by preseason week 3, I'll be shocked. But either way, give the o-line situation some time to work itself out - both from a playing stand point and a lineup stand point. Tice had a patch work line (which was less talented, imho, than the current group) playing at a decent level by the end of last season. I see no reason not to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Let the preseason run it's course. If this had been week 1 of the regular season, I would be terrified. For now, I am willing to let Tice see what he needs to, make adjustments as necessary and prepare for the season's open in a month.
I havent watched the whole game, but from what I have seen and heard, the qbs did not do the line any favors by holding the ball too long.
Also, keep in mind that while the line looked horrible in pass protection, they looked pretty damn good in run blocking. They made barber and bell look like studs (both of which ran hard and were very good as well).
Don't cherry pick stats to say how bad the line is, even if they were pretty bad.
Also, keep in mind that while the line looked horrible in pass protection, they looked pretty damn good in run blocking. They made barber and bell look like studs (both of which ran hard and were very good as well).
Don't cherry pick stats to say how bad the line is, even if they were pretty bad.
flapgreen
Footballguy
I don't think there's much chance of cherry picking 9 sacks, whether the qbs held the ball too long or not. Remember, the O Line played the entire first half and the 2nd quarter was against mostly backups too. I realize the first preseason game isn't the most telling, but it sure wasn't a good start.
boubucarow
Footballguy
There is some truth to your comments but the first two drives the run blocking was horrible. The pass protection wasn't helped by QB indecision but there was always a player there right before or right after a read and release should have occurred. But all that matters for this new unit is how much they improve for the season. Judging a unit with new pieces and position changes on one half of preseason football after a week or so of practice is very premature.
flapgreen
Footballguy
Tice calling out Webb on his play:
Tice on Webb not matching Merriman's intensity: "I mean, sh-- after sitting around 4 months u should hv plenty intensity built up inside."
Mike Tice on J'Marcus Webb: "He needs to step up and play better and he needs to grow up quickly."
Mike Tice on J'Marcus Webb: "He needs to buck up."
Maybe sign of things to come? Stinchcomb just became available. Waters still out there. Rumors also saying Tice will give the line one more week before changing anything.
At least for today, Enderle took snaps with 2nd team. Yeah Martz, what a way to reward a guy who played his butt off in the championship game with little preparation, and almost brought back your pathetic offense against a great defense in a high pressure situation. Now you demote him after one below average preseason game with no offseason prep time, and promote a late round rookie qb? Screw you!!! Between Martz's unwillingness to change the offense, to trading Olsen, to demoting Knox, and now demoting a guy for no reason, he's leaving a path of destruction behind him. It's too late now, but the negative effects on the offense will be felt long after Martz is ran out of town. Someone needs to hire a hitman. 
ullspistol:
Tice on Webb not matching Merriman's intensity: "I mean, sh-- after sitting around 4 months u should hv plenty intensity built up inside."
Mike Tice on J'Marcus Webb: "He needs to step up and play better and he needs to grow up quickly."
Mike Tice on J'Marcus Webb: "He needs to buck up."
Maybe sign of things to come? Stinchcomb just became available. Waters still out there. Rumors also saying Tice will give the line one more week before changing anything.
At least for today, Enderle took snaps with 2nd team.
Yeah Martz, what a way to reward a guy who played his butt off in the championship game with little preparation, and almost brought back your pathetic offense against a great defense in a high pressure situation. Now you demote him after one below average preseason game with no offseason prep time, and promote a late round rookie qb? Screw you!!! Between Martz's unwillingness to change the offense, to trading Olsen, to demoting Knox, and now demoting a guy for no reason, he's leaving a path of destruction behind him. It's too late now, but the negative effects on the offense will be felt long after Martz is ran out of town. Someone needs to hire a hitman. ullspistol:
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twistd
Footballguy
I could see Knox being demoted if we saw great things from Williams, but we haven't. Now this demotion of Hanie is ridiculous. There is no way that Enderle deserves a promotion, or Hanie a demotion. It really is like the coaches are just playing with the players heads. And couple that with the offensive line playing absolutely terribly, but no changes there. There is nothing consistent about the way they are treating the players. It is like they are trying to motivate players and all they are managing to do is pissing the players off.
flapgreen
Footballguy
It's so weird, because that's never been Lovie's way, until Martz arrived.
eta: btw, Aaron Maybin was released. Maybe the Bears can't invest in another first round bust and "give him a new start".
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flapgreen
Footballguy
Now he's practicing with more of a purpose? It's a little late for that now. If he wasn't practicing with much of a purpose before, he doesn't need to be on the team. His technique isn't going to improve in a week. Where's Al Davis when you need him? J'Marcus Webb is a great player.
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twistd
Footballguy
With Webb or Louis they almost have no other options. The back up at LT is Omiyale, and the back up at RG is Edwin Williams, I believe. I guess Edwin Williams might be an option. We have seen Omiyale and he is not going to be an improvement. But jerking around the back up QB doesn't really have an impact on the starters, but it also doesn't seem to serve much of a purpose. If they told Hanie that they were getting Enderle more reps because he needed the work that would be one thing. But jerking around Hanie and Knox doesn't seem to be a good idea. It would seem to hurt the morale of the team. You have unceremoniously dumped Kreutz, let's not try to do much more damage, unless it is really making the team better.
