What makes him any less valuable in dynasty, he is only 25. I will like to see a list of 15 rbs you would take shead of him.I don't play in pprs, but didn't Thomas finish in the top 25 last year, our at least close? Depending on what happens in FA, Thomas will likely be the #1 WR in Jax, plus this will only be his 3rd season. I would expect at least a small uptick in his numbers this year.
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2011 offseason dynasty trades (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter fsufan
- Start date
thriftyrocker
Footballguy
25, injury history, was benched for Jacobs later in the year, team had some interest in drafting a RB but obviously didn't until Scott. Tried pretty hard to sell him for pick 4 in a couple leagues and got no takers even when I added 2nds, etc. to the Bradshaw side. He could be Pierre Thomas in a year.Obvious ones: ADP, CJ, Charles, Rice, Foster, McCoy, McFadden, Mendenhall, Stewart, MJD, Forte, Ingram (12)More debatable but clearly better IMO: Best, Mathews (2)Older guys who probably have the same window of high production even though they're old: Gore, SJax, DeAngelo (3)You're going to puke in your mouth but I would rather have: Blount, Greene, Spiller, Wells, Leshoure (5)I'd probably rather have Bradshaw but it's pretty close: Hillis, Moreno, Felix, D Thomas, Ryan Williams (5)
30th with MSW taking up space doing nothing. He's a small WR who can't get YAC and can't get open deep despite his elite speed. If he's a NFL #1 WR, he's one of the worst in the league, and Jax will upgrade as soon as they can.
Regarding Bradshaw, what injury history? He has missed 2 games in the last 3 years. Benched for Jacobs? Are you suggesting that Jacobs had taken over the starters role? The reason the Giants may have had some interest in drafting a RB is because Bradshaw is a FA. It seems obvious since they didn't draft one other than Scott, they have every intention on resigning Bradshaw. Also, the fact that nobody would give you the 1.4 for Bradshaw and a 2nd seems wierd, does ANYONE have Ryan Williams ranked higher than Bradshaw? I.actually agree with your list including Best and Mathews, but Bradshaw would be the next on my list. Bradshaw will never lose his job due to talent, so unless you think he is going to suffer a career ending injury I don't see how he is any more valuable in a redraft.Thomas is the same age a some of the rookies that were drafted this year(turned 24 last week), so he still has room for improvement. I'm not saying he has top 10 potential, but its not a stretch to think he could improve on last years numbers by even 5-10%, which would make him a top 25 WR.
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thriftyrocker
Footballguy
LOL.
I'm suggesting they were so fed up with him they let Jacobs start a few games to send a message. This is not a positive to his dynasty stock and his future as a starter in NY past 2011.
r0llin_game
Footballguy
Tiki worked on his fumbling problems, why can't Bradshaw?
I'll take Smith.
bengalbuck
Footballguy
I'm with you on Bradshaw. I had a dynasty startup draft recently and on first blush was very intrigued by Bradshaw due to his combo of age and production. The more I researched, I became less and less sold. I think the comparison to Pierre Thomas (who was being drafted almost exactly the same spot last year as Bradshaw is this year in startups) is perfect. Solid but not great talents who are only putting up numbers due to situation. Both are pretty easily replaceable and I get the impression that the Giants don't really want to pay Bradshaw much.
team a Marcedes Lewis and a mid to late (2012) first round pick
For
Team b Cj spiller and Percy harvin
Ten team idp .5ppr dynasty start 1qb 2wr 2rb 1te and 1flex,,, te receive 1ppr
Team a still has Owen finley j graham at te team b still has mccoy Matthews blunt at rb and Holmes marshall n aj at Wr... thoughts ???
For
Team b Cj spiller and Percy harvin
Ten team idp .5ppr dynasty start 1qb 2wr 2rb 1te and 1flex,,, te receive 1ppr
Team a still has Owen finley j graham at te team b still has mccoy Matthews blunt at rb and Holmes marshall n aj at Wr... thoughts ???
Nicolas Cocaign
Footballguy
I'll take Spiller + Harvin by a mile.
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
Maybe by 2 miles.
I was thinking 3.45 miles.
fsufan
Footballguy
bradshaw is SO under rated.last year he was #9 in PPR league and #12 in a non PPR
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
If you don't think Bradshaw is talented you mustn't watch him much (I don't mean that as a typical slam, its not easy to watch every player in the league each week - I'm in the NY market so do I see him every week). The guy is the complete package - break away speed, great lateral movement and strength that belies his size. Go back and watch the Super Bowl where he carries a defensive end down the field on his back for 8 yards. He was used at the GL more than Jacobs was as well, so the Giants believe in his power as well.His "benching" is being way overblown, as Coughlin was just sending him a message about fumbles and he ended up getting more carries than Jacobs in every game except Week 11 where Jacobs had two more carries than him. His injuries as well since he hardly ever misses games - he does sit out practices though.Fumbling wasn't really an issue before last season and sometimes those things just happen - the Giants and Coughlin love Bradshaw for good reason, the kid can lay.
thriftyrocker
Footballguy
Are you sure you've watched him since that Super Bowl? One of the reasons for concern is that his breakway speed has diminished. Likely due to the nagging injuries that have continually kept him out of practice.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Pretty sure. Thanks for asking though.
thriftyrocker
Footballguy
If you watched him every week, do you think he looked the same the last 8 weeks as he did the first 8 weeks? Do you think he looked the same in in the last 8 weeks as he did in 2007 or 2008? He looked beat down to me. His stats reflect that.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
The Giants offense in general was bad down the stretch once they lost both Steve Smith and Hakeem Nicks and were playing with street free agents like Michael Clayton at WR. A lot of his numbers reflect that and he also didn't have as many carries in some of those games for different reasons - I noted the one where he was "benched". Bradshaw still flashed big play ability some of those weeks. Alot of RBs get banged up as the season wears on as well and I never really argued that he didn't suffer any injuries - his ankle/foot injuries were well known - just said he didn't miss games. He had offseason ankle sugery to clean it up. Will it continue to be a problem? I don't know.My original reply was to some one that said he wasn't talented and was easily replacable - which simply isn't true. He's one of the more complete backs in the league and is very productive even "splitting" carries with Jacobs.
thriftyrocker
Footballguy
RBs in general are easily replaceable. Pierre Thomas was one of the more complete backs in the league and very productive. Tiki Barber was replaceable. They even won the SB the year after he left with a 4th rd project Rb starting. Brandon Jacobs later became replaceable. RBs are disposable like magazines to many NFL teams.Don't think anyone is knocking his talent too hard, just reading the tea leaves differently. Worst dis was "solid but not great". He is a solid starting NFL RB.
Tiki was only replaced because be he retired. Thomas was replaced because he couldn't stay healthy. Plus, I think most would agree Bradshaw is more talented than Thomas. Thats not to say Bradshaw couldn't be replaced in NY, but a RB with his talent would start for another team.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
That's a different issue. Yes the position is fungible to some extent but teams don't go looking to replace productive backs.Pierre was a very solid all around back (Bradshaw is better imo), but I always said that a lot of his production is based on playing in that offense. Also trading back into the first round of a draft isn't exactly "easily" replacing some one.
thriftyrocker
Footballguy
They look to avoid paying RBs whenever possible even when they're productive.
It's not a slam dunk "everyone would agree" type of "better" IMO. I think Pierre at his height was a better receiver and a better red zone guy. He was never the take it to the house back that Bradshaw was in 2007, but then again Bradshaw isn't that guy anymore either IMO.
Is the emphasis on "easily"? If so, what was Ivory's YPC last year?
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
That's what people like to say on message boards but its not entirely true. Even a 32 year old RB like Thomas Jones managed to land a decent payday last offseason and every year teams jump on backs in the free agent market. The thing is runningbacks do get used up quickly so their trade value isn't all that high and yes as I said it is a very fungible position to a large degree (so a team would go cheaper if they could at times). I live in the NY market (not a Giants fan though), and everything I've read says that the Giants will resign Bradshaw if the tag doesn't stick. Is there a point that his "demands" might not merit them bringing him back? I'm sure there is, but all indications are that both sides want a deal to get done.As far as Thomas v. Bradshaw, I said it was only "my opinion" and I wouldn't say anyone was crazy if they thought otherwise. I like Thomas as well.Ivory ran really well last season. I'm of the opinion that the Saints would have been fine with Thomas, Ivory and Bush this season, but I also think Ingrim will be one of the better backs in the league.If you're sole argument about Bradshaw is that he could be replaced. Then ok, I do agree with that. I don't think the Gianst are actively looking to do so though.I guess we should stop highjacking this thread though - we all have different opinions on particular players.
thriftyrocker
Footballguy
Backup money. Fred Jackson took backup money and they drafted his replacement. Pierre Thomas took backup money and they drafted his replacement. LT took backup money. If you're willing to take backup money, teams will take you, but there's no guarantee you'll be more than a backup. Which makes you a low value dynasty asset. If "your sole argument" is that Bradshaw will find a team even if the Giants don't want to pay him starter money, I agree - Derrick Ward has found 2 so far - but it's one of many tenuous parts of his situation (alongside injury history, getting worn down, fumblitis) which all go to the whole initial discussion of how he can be a top 15 redraft RB but not dynasty. Do you think teams will be lining up to give Ahmad Bradshaw starting money? Would he get a SJax/ADP $50mil deal or a Chester Taylor/Pierre Thomas $12mil deal?
Lets assume the Giants dont resign him, what do you think the chances are that he starts for whichever team did sign him? To answer your last question, I would say somewhere in between.
Dez
Footballguy
If only you had thought that last year.
I did end up with Mcfadden on all but one of my redraft teams last year, including getting him cheap in the FBG contest. Him and Bradshaw backboned my team to finish 125th overall.Thats not to say I thought he was a top 5 last year, but I liked him alot.
Dez
Footballguy
I had 2 dynasty start up drafts last year and missed him in both leagues is what I was getting at. If you were this high on him last year I would have taken him. Passed at pick 9.11 in 1 draft still haunts me.
That hurts, I think I had him around 20-25 last year in my rankings. I was higher on him than alot of other rankings I saw, but not high enough unfortunately.
thriftyrocker
Footballguy
The chances he gets > 50% of the carries for any NFL team in 2013 is pretty low. The NFL is just that brutal to RBs. You could put almost any name in there, and I'd say the same thing. No one wants a 27 yo RB from the scrapheap except maybe Cincinnati.Even if he gets Ryan Grant money, he's going to have to continually prove he's worth the investment or fade off into obscurity.
I actually meant this season. I agree that trying to predict which RBs are going to be around and starting 3 seasons from now is hard to do for any player.With that said, if the Giants didn't resign Bradshaw this year and he went to another team, I am pretty confident he would see greater than 50% of the RB touches. I wouldnt feel as confident saying the same thing about Pierre Thomas.
Slight edge to the Lafell side if you like Nelson. He is the difference in the trade. Getting a 2nd for a 3rd makes up the difference between Lafell and Nelson.
Mighty Mice
Footballguy
Team A gave up: Choice, Tashard DAL RB Crabtree, Michael SFO WR Schilens, Chaz OAK WR Miller, Heath PIT TE, Year 2012 Round 1 Draft Pick (likely very early/non-playoff team)
Team B gave up: Lynch, Marshawn SEA RB Decker, Eric DEN, WR Williams, Mike SEA WR Cook, Jared TEN TE
Neither team a contender, both look to be rebuilding.
Would trade Lynch for an early first, and would trade BWM and Cook for Crabtree and Miller. Edge to Team B IMO.
Team B gave up: Lynch, Marshawn SEA RB Decker, Eric DEN, WR Williams, Mike SEA WR Cook, Jared TEN TE
Neither team a contender, both look to be rebuilding.
Would trade Lynch for an early first, and would trade BWM and Cook for Crabtree and Miller. Edge to Team B IMO.
Horrible trade IMO.
r0llin_game
Footballguy
Wow that's an ugly trade
Dez
Footballguy
I will take that bet on Thomas...ok I win because he was #23 WR last year in my league.A lot of people have been billing Thomas as the next Steve Smith (Car) for a while now. If he ends up having a rookie QB it could be tough next year.He is still a player I like though. Have to see how things shake out this year.
I was in the pool
Footballguy
Team A:
Stafford
Ingram
Britt
Gates
Team B:
Romo
Moreno
Dez
Finley
PPR.
Stafford
Ingram
Britt
Gates
Team B:
Romo
Moreno
Dez
Finley
PPR.
BeTheMatch
Footballguy
Team A gave up:
Kenny Britt
Team B gave up:
Steve Smith (NYG)
Kenny Britt
Team B gave up:
Steve Smith (NYG)
squistion
Footballguy
I tried to move Smith in a PPR league a few weeks back and with his knee issues and future with the Giants up in the air, I practically couldn't give him away (tried to get a 3rd round pick and was turned down by several owners). Even with all his legal problems I would prefer Britt over Smith.
Britt could be video taped opening fire during a bank robbery and I would still take him over Smith.
gianmarco
Footballguy
Because it would probably be downgraded to something like misdemeanor disturbing the peace at the rate he's been going lately.
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BeTheMatch
Footballguy
Who's the Titans' QB again?
Jake Locker, Kerry Collins or an undetermined FA.
Lets put up the worst deal maybe done this off-season
Team A gives Knowshon Moreno, Mike Williams, Jacoby Jones and rookie pick 3.2
Team B gives Fred Jackson, Dezmon Briscoe and pick 6.11
.5 PPR, 1 per 20, 16 team league starting 11 guys on O.
Team A gives Knowshon Moreno, Mike Williams, Jacoby Jones and rookie pick 3.2
Team B gives Fred Jackson, Dezmon Briscoe and pick 6.11
.5 PPR, 1 per 20, 16 team league starting 11 guys on O.
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
Depends on what Mike Williams.
Sorry Seattle. Also IDP league so the rookie pick holds more significance I dont think it matters. I dont trade Williams or Moreno in dynasty straight up for Jackson without giving both and a nice pick also.
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
Not the worst trade I have seen, but one that does not make a lot of sense.
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