2013 Off Season Dynasty Trade Thread (for completed trades) (2 Viewers)

[Shawnky]

Prefer the Cruz side as well. Even if you don't like Shorts, him and the pick can be easily moved for other value. Cruz and Jones are about as similar as they come.

I really don't see how Cruz and jones are as similar as they come?I'll easily take the Julio side. He's the type of player you build a team around. He's three years younger and I don't think he has come close to fulfilling his potential (while still out scoring Cruz this past season). I also see these two trending in opposite directions production wise next year. With a healthy nicks I think Cruz's production will dip while Julio's will continue to increase with the likely retirement of tony g and the continual aging of white.

Again, the Julio hype is out of control. There was only a 5 point difference between them last year. The year before was a completely different story. Nicks has never stayed healthy, so what makes you think it's going to happen in the future? As I said, they're equal outside of Julio's hype. I never said Cruz was better, but looking at that trade it's easy to see how one sided it is.Also your analysis is flawed. How does Nicks make Cruz's production go down yet White makes Julio's go up? Illogical.

 

[Shawnky]

A gets Julio Jones, 2.09B gets Victor Cruz, Cecil Shorts, 1.10I wasn't involved.

Wow! Wish I owned Julio! I'd be ecstatic to get this!

Really? As a Julio owner myself I don't think I'd accept this deal, certainly wouldn't be ecstatic

This.

You guys are nuts. This deal is extremely lopsided. Julio and Cruz are of equal value here. After that all you have to do is look at the rest of the deal. I like Julio, but he's not Calvin.

Julio side for me. Some already value Julio over Calvin. In those leagues where Julio is not already untouchable (like the one above), this is the last year that he can be acquired (at least until he turns 28+).

I'd like to see a league where Julio holds more value than Calvin. Elementary my dear Watson.

 

[Skeletore Eh]

Prefer the Cruz side as well. Even if you don't like Shorts, him and the pick can be easily moved for other value. Cruz and Jones are about as similar as they come.

I really don't see how Cruz and jones are as similar as they come?I'll easily take the Julio side. He's the type of player you build a team around. He's three years younger and I don't think he has come close to fulfilling his potential (while still out scoring Cruz this past season). I also see these two trending in opposite directions production wise next year. With a healthy nicks I think Cruz's production will dip while Julio's will continue to increase with the likely retirement of tony g and the continual aging of white.

They are both young enough that I'm not going to put any added weight on being 23 vs 26 years old.Their scoring in 2012 was almost identical (7 total points separating the two of them).Julio may 'fulfill his potential', but what would that look like? Something like 80+ catches, 1500+ yards, 8+ TDs that Cruz already accomplished *all the way back* in 2011?What if the attention that White and Gonzo is getting is actually helping Jones?

You may not put any weight on their age difference, but that is a mistake. In a few years Julio will be untradable his value will be so high while Cruz will be another receiver you can't get full value for because of his age. Yes their scoring was nearly identical with Cruz in his prime while Julio has not come close to fulfilling his potential, as I mentioned in my previous post. I think Julio's potential is in the 90 for 1500 and 12 range. I think Cruz's production moving forward will be a lot closer to 2012 than 2011. What if the attention white and gonzo are getting is holding Julio back? What is going to happen when he is the focal point of that offense?Still waiting to hear how Cruz and Julio are as similar as they come?

 

[tdmills]

1) I like the Mendy, Holmes side.....not because of Mendy, but because Holmes is underrated and should land on a team in need and a viable QB. I see Holmes rebounding huge this year. At 1.06, that team will be lucky to get a WR of Holmes' talent.

I'll tell you where Holmes is going to land this year. Where is is right now. The Jets can't cut him because of the cap hit and no team is going to take on that contract.

Yeah, you are right....I heard on the radio that he's a FA, but double checked after I posted and he's not a FA until 2016. I guess I would change my mind and stick with the 1.06 pick given this information.

In case you didn't notice,this is a devy league. Here are the players not available in the rookie draft: Keenan Allen, Robert Woods, Matt Barkley, Eddie Lacy, Gio Bernard, Knile Davis, Marquess Wilson, Da'Rick Rodgers, Montee Ball, and Marcus Lattimore.

 

[Skeletore Eh]

Prefer the Cruz side as well. Even if you don't like Shorts, him and the pick can be easily moved for other value. Cruz and Jones are about as similar as they come.

I really don't see how Cruz and jones are as similar as they come?I'll easily take the Julio side. He's the type of player you build a team around. He's three years younger and I don't think he has come close to fulfilling his potential (while still out scoring Cruz this past season). I also see these two trending in opposite directions production wise next year. With a healthy nicks I think Cruz's production will dip while Julio's will continue to increase with the likely retirement of tony g and the continual aging of white.

Again, the Julio hype is out of control. There was only a 5 point difference between them last year. The year before was a completely different story. Nicks has never stayed healthy, so what makes you think it's going to happen in the future? As I said, they're equal outside of Julio's hype. I never said Cruz was better, but looking at that trade it's easy to see how one sided it is.Also your analysis is flawed. How does Nicks make Cruz's production go down yet White makes Julio's go up? Illogical.

Not illogical. Pretty simple. Healthy nicks coming back next year vs roddy aging and Julio taking over as focal point of offense.

 

[Shawnky]

Prefer the Cruz side as well. Even if you don't like Shorts, him and the pick can be easily moved for other value. Cruz and Jones are about as similar as they come.

I really don't see how Cruz and jones are as similar as they come?I'll easily take the Julio side. He's the type of player you build a team around. He's three years younger and I don't think he has come close to fulfilling his potential (while still out scoring Cruz this past season). I also see these two trending in opposite directions production wise next year. With a healthy nicks I think Cruz's production will dip while Julio's will continue to increase with the likely retirement of tony g and the continual aging of white.

They are both young enough that I'm not going to put any added weight on being 23 vs 26 years old.Their scoring in 2012 was almost identical (7 total points separating the two of them).Julio may 'fulfill his potential', but what would that look like? Something like 80+ catches, 1500+ yards, 8+ TDs that Cruz already accomplished *all the way back* in 2011?What if the attention that White and Gonzo is getting is actually helping Jones?

You may not put any weight on their age difference, but that is a mistake. In a few years Julio will be untradable his value will be so high while Cruz will be another receiver you can't get full value for because of his age. Yes their scoring was nearly identical with Cruz in his prime while Julio has not come close to fulfilling his potential, as I mentioned in my previous post. I think Julio's potential is in the 90 for 1500 and 12 range. I think Cruz's production moving forward will be a lot closer to 2012 than 2011. What if the attention white and gonzo are getting is holding Julio back? What is going to happen when he is the focal point of that offense?Still waiting to hear how Cruz and Julio are as similar as they come?

Have you read what you wrote? It's all assumptions. @ when Cruz was in his prime.

 

[EBF]

Part of the value of guys like Julio, Dez, AJ Green, and Doug Martin is the fact that EVERY owner in your league wants those players. That gives you a lot of flexibility. A guy like Brandon Marshall might outscore them over the next few years, but the fact that he's approaching the dreaded 30 means a lot of teams simply won't pay top value for him. So if your team craps out and you want to restructure, you're up a creek because your franchise player is a guy who only 30% of the teams in your league have any interest in. Julio is a bit overrated in terms of his production versus his trade value, but he's a young player with a big reputation and a flashy set of physical skills. Everyone wants to have him and that's part of the reason why the idea of trading him away for anything less than another player of that description is repugnant to a lot of his owners.

 

[Concept Coop]

Not illogical. Pretty simple. Healthy nicks coming back next year vs roddy aging and Julio taking over as focal point of offense.

We can look at the numbers here; we don't have to guess. Victor Cruz is MORE productive when Nicks plays. They play two very different positions. It is very hard to double team in the slot, in a base defense. It is impossible to do it when you help the guy covering Nicks over the top. Defenses have to pick and choose. When Nicks isn't there, teams let his replacement beat them and focus on Cruz more.The NYG offense is matchup based and Manning makes those calls at the line. He doesn't force feed anyone.

 

[menobrown]

Part of the value of guys like Julio, Dez, AJ Green, and Doug Martin is the fact that EVERY owner in your league wants those players. That gives you a lot of flexibility. A guy like Brandon Marshall might outscore them over the next few years, but the fact that he's approaching the dreaded 30 means a lot of teams simply won't pay top value for him.

Exactly and Marshall is a great example. This brings me to the 3 year rule we often hear Dynasty owners use. I don't use this rule due to the very point you just described, at least not in terms of how valuable a player is to me for the next 3 years. When I examine the value of a player I try and consider what his value to the rest of the league is going to be 3 years down the road not just the production he may give to my team.This is why I'm taking Trent Richardson and Doug Martin over a guy like Arian Foster every chance I get. Even if Foster keeps up his level of play for the next 3 years he's going to be a falling stock every year. Meanwhile, provided good health and performance, you could ride a guy like Richardson or Martin for the next 2-3 years at which point they'd still have value similar to what Foster has now. On the other hand if you took Foster over these guys you'd be sitting on a dying if not dead stock in 3 years.

 

[Skeletore Eh]

Prefer the Cruz side as well. Even if you don't like Shorts, him and the pick can be easily moved for other value. Cruz and Jones are about as similar as they come.

I really don't see how Cruz and jones are as similar as they come?I'll easily take the Julio side. He's the type of player you build a team around. He's three years younger and I don't think he has come close to fulfilling his potential (while still out scoring Cruz this past season). I also see these two trending in opposite directions production wise next year. With a healthy nicks I think Cruz's production will dip while Julio's will continue to increase with the likely retirement of tony g and the continual aging of white.

They are both young enough that I'm not going to put any added weight on being 23 vs 26 years old.Their scoring in 2012 was almost identical (7 total points separating the two of them).Julio may 'fulfill his potential', but what would that look like? Something like 80+ catches, 1500+ yards, 8+ TDs that Cruz already accomplished *all the way back* in 2011?What if the attention that White and Gonzo is getting is actually helping Jones?

You may not put any weight on their age difference, but that is a mistake. In a few years Julio will be untradable his value will be so high while Cruz will be another receiver you can't get full value for because of his age. Yes their scoring was nearly identical with Cruz in his prime while Julio has not come close to fulfilling his potential, as I mentioned in my previous post. I think Julio's potential is in the 90 for 1500 and 12 range. I think Cruz's production moving forward will be a lot closer to 2012 than 2011. What if the attention white and gonzo are getting is holding Julio back? What is going to happen when he is the focal point of that offense?Still waiting to hear how Cruz and Julio are as similar as they come?

Have you read what you wrote? It's all assumptions. @ when Cruz was in his prime.

It's called an opinion. Primarily what this thread is comprised of. This isn't Cruz's prime?

 

[dewmass]

Not one of mine, but one I thought was worth reporting. 12 teams, 26 man roster, standard scoringTeam A givesMcFaddenFitzgerald Team B givesJimmy Graham

 

[Ernol]

A gets Julio Jones, 2.09B gets Victor Cruz, Cecil Shorts, 1.10I wasn't involved.

Wow! Wish I owned Julio! I'd be ecstatic to get this!

Really? As a Julio owner myself I don't think I'd accept this deal, certainly wouldn't be ecstatic

This.

You guys are nuts. This deal is extremely lopsided. Julio and Cruz are of equal value here. After that all you have to do is look at the rest of the deal. I like Julio, but he's not Calvin.

Julio side for me. Some already value Julio over Calvin. In those leagues where Julio is not already untouchable (like the one above), this is the last year that he can be acquired (at least until he turns 28+).

I'd like to see a league where Julio holds more value than Calvin. Elementary my dear Watson.

Hmmm, I said "some", as in individuals. Getting any "league" to value a young, less proven, player over an established super star is bordering impossible (you remember when Calvin proponents ranked him #1 before his breakout and were ridiculed by the Andre Johnson contingent). I took Julio in a startup at 1.8, last year. I'd probably take him #1 overall this year. You won't see Victor Cruz taken in the 1st round of a startup (probably not even a 2nd rounder in most). By the way, by no means am I taking credit for the early #1 call on Julio as one particularly forward-thinking poster here ranked Julio #1 overall LAST YEAR. Point is, Julio will be untouchable next year. So when you say he's not Calvin, I say, he actually is.

 

[Chazzhawk]

A gets Julio Jones, 2.09B gets Victor Cruz, Cecil Shorts, 1.10I wasn't involved.

Wow! Wish I owned Julio! I'd be ecstatic to get this!

Really? As a Julio owner myself I don't think I'd accept this deal, certainly wouldn't be ecstatic

This.

You guys are nuts. This deal is extremely lopsided. Julio and Cruz are of equal value here. After that all you have to do is look at the rest of the deal. I like Julio, but he's not Calvin.

Julio side for me. Some already value Julio over Calvin. In those leagues where Julio is not already untouchable (like the one above), this is the last year that he can be acquired (at least until he turns 28+).

I'd like to see a league where Julio holds more value than Calvin. Elementary my dear Watson.

I actually got Calvin and Housler for Julio and Cook in a salary cap dynasty league. Calvin's number is 61 and Julio's is only 27

 

[Chazzhawk]

Not one of mine, but one I thought was worth reporting. 12 teams, 26 man roster, standard scoringTeam A givesMcFaddenFitzgerald Team B givesJimmy Graham

I like the Graham side a lot. Next year I think it is about even if Fitz gets a decent quarterback, but Mcfadden's days as a lead back are pretty much done.

 

[JPeso]

A gets Julio Jones, 2.09B gets Victor Cruz, Cecil Shorts, 1.10I wasn't involved.

Wow! Wish I owned Julio! I'd be ecstatic to get this!

Really? As a Julio owner myself I don't think I'd accept this deal, certainly wouldn't be ecstatic

This.

You guys are nuts. This deal is extremely lopsided. Julio and Cruz are of equal value here. After that all you have to do is look at the rest of the deal. I like Julio, but he's not Calvin.

Julio side for me. Some already value Julio over Calvin. In those leagues where Julio is not already untouchable (like the one above), this is the last year that he can be acquired (at least until he turns 28+).

I'd like to see a league where Julio holds more value than Calvin. Elementary my dear Watson.

Hmmm, I said "some", as in individuals. Getting any "league" to value a young, less proven, player over an established super star is bordering impossible (you remember when Calvin proponents ranked him #1 before his breakout and were ridiculed by the Andre Johnson contingent). I took Julio in a startup at 1.8, last year. I'd probably take him #1 overall this year. You won't see Victor Cruz taken in the 1st round of a startup (probably not even a 2nd rounder in most). By the way, by no means am I taking credit for the early #1 call on Julio as one particularly forward-thinking poster here ranked Julio #1 overall LAST YEAR. Point is, Julio will be untouchable next year. So when you say he's not Calvin, I say, he actually is.

Another point is that you won't really be able to prove this in a league as this owner suggests. Why? Team A owns Julio, Team B owns Calvin. Team B certainly isn't adding anything to get Julio, but as time passes, Team A won't be either.

 

[lbouchard]

Julio at number 1 overall? Why?

 

[Concept Coop]

I like the Graham side a lot. Next year I think it is about even if Fitz gets a decent quarterback, but Mcfadden's days as a lead back are pretty much done.

They just fired their OC and will likely tailor offense to DMC's talents. I see no signs of OAK moving on from him.

 

[Chazzhawk]

I like the Graham side a lot. Next year I think it is about even if Fitz gets a decent quarterback, but Mcfadden's days as a lead back are pretty much done.

They just fired their OC and will likely tailor offense to DMC's talents. I see no signs of OAK moving on from him.

I agree with that but I see them bring in someone to help him stay on the field all year. I see more of a time share in his future.

 

[EBF]

I like the Graham side a lot. Next year I think it is about even if Fitz gets a decent quarterback, but Mcfadden's days as a lead back are pretty much done.

They just fired their OC and will likely tailor offense to DMC's talents.

What talent is that? Getting injured every season?McFadden is kind of like Stewart in the sense that at any given time there's at least one owner in your league who will buy the glass is half full argument. The difference is that I think Stewart is actually a good RB whereas I think McFadden is a pile of dog meat. I don't know how many years he has to disappoint people until they get the point and pawn him off to somebody else.

 

[Concept Coop]

What talent is that? Getting injured every season?McFadden is kind of like Stewart in the sense that at any given time there's at least one owner in your league who will buy the glass is half full argument. The difference is that I think Stewart is actually a good RB whereas I think McFadden is a pile of dog meat. I don't know how many years he has to disappoint people until they get the point and pawn him off to somebody else.

We are not talking about our opinions of McFadden as a player - we've had that conversation many times. But Oak clearly plans to go into next season with Darren McFadden as their starting RB.

 

[EBF]

What talent is that? Getting injured every season?McFadden is kind of like Stewart in the sense that at any given time there's at least one owner in your league who will buy the glass is half full argument. The difference is that I think Stewart is actually a good RB whereas I think McFadden is a pile of dog meat. I don't know how many years he has to disappoint people until they get the point and pawn him off to somebody else.

We are not talking about our opinions of McFadden as a player - we've had that conversation many times. But Oak clearly plans to go into next season with Darren McFadden as their starting RB.

Hasn't that been the plan the last five years?

 

[Concept Coop]

Hasn't that been the plan the last five years?

Yes.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I like the Graham side a lot. Next year I think it is about even if Fitz gets a decent quarterback, but Mcfadden's days as a lead back are pretty much done.

They just fired their OC and will likely tailor offense to DMC's talents. I see no signs of OAK moving on from him.

I agree with that but I see them bring in someone to help him stay on the field all year. I see more of a time share in his future.

Raiders GM Reggie McKenzie told reporters Thursday that he is committed to Darren McFadden as Oakland's starting tailback for 2013.Like coach Dennis Allen, McKenzie is attributing McFadden's 2012 struggles to simply being a poor system fit for outgoing OC Greg Knapp's zone-blocking scheme. "He's not a lateral mover," McKenzie said of McFadden's running style. The Raiders are expected to turn back to a power-blocking, gap-based running system in 2013. McFadden is owed a pricey $5.856 million base salary.

 

[ctrlaltdefeat]

Hasn't that been the plan the last five years?

Yes.

That's been the plan for Jonathan Stewart as well. Both bad teams making the same mistakes year after year.

 

[One More Rep]

Team A Gets Phillip Rivers and Doug MartinTeam B Gets Aaron Rodgers and Daniel Thomas

 

[Concept Coop]

That's been the plan for Jonathan Stewart as well. Both bad teams making the same mistakes year after year.

The Panthers never planned to use Stewart in a full-time role. And NFL players get hurt. NFL RBs especially. Missing 4 games ins't a nail in the coffin for anyone. And depsite what EBF thinks, the rest of the world feels McFadden is a game changer in the right scheme.

 

[Eminence]

Demaryius Thomas

Mikel Leshoure

Jared Cook

2015 1st Rounder

for

Adrian Peterson

Reggie Wayne

Thoughts? .5 PPR

 

[One More Rep]

Demaryius Thomas

Mikel Leshoure

Jared Cook

2015 1st Rounder

for

Adrian Peterson

Reggie Wayne

Thoughts? .5 PPR

Man this is a tough one. 2015 is a couple years away but I think I still prefer the Thomas side. I am a sucker for youth

 

[Steed]

What talent is that? Getting injured every season?McFadden is kind of like Stewart in the sense that at any given time there's at least one owner in your league who will buy the glass is half full argument. The difference is that I think Stewart is actually a good RB whereas I think McFadden is a pile of dog meat. I don't know how many years he has to disappoint people until they get the point and pawn him off to somebody else.

We are not talking about our opinions of McFadden as a player - we've had that conversation many times. But Oak clearly plans to go into next season with Darren McFadden as their starting RB.

Hasn't that been the plan the last five years?

By the way, he's in the last year of his contract in 2013. From his class so far Chris Johnson, Ray Rice, Matt Forte, Jamaal Charles and Stewart have all been extended. Slaton and a bunch are out of the league. Mendy, Felix and Kevin Smith will all be with new teams next year. The new Raiders GM doesn't strike me as a guy that would extend an oft injured RB, especially with the cap mess Al Davis left him. Strong possibility they draft a RB in the first couple rounds, or perhaps uncover a late gem to take DMC's place. One thing is for sure, he'll be with a new team in 2014.

 

[The Clamface]

Just went down in a PPR leagueTeam A Larry Fitzgerald Russell Wilson Teams BMike Wallace1.5

 

[imagroid]

I took Julio in a startup at 1.8, last year. I'd probably take him #1 overall this year. You won't see Victor Cruz taken in the 1st round of a startup (probably not even a 2nd rounder in most). By the way, by no means am I taking credit for the early #1 call on Julio as one particularly forward-thinking poster here ranked Julio #1 overall LAST YEAR.

Is that supposed to be a brag or something? Looks like a #### call to me.

 

[menobrown]

By the way, he's in the last year of his contract in 2013. From his class so far Chris Johnson, Ray Rice, Matt Forte, Jamaal Charles and Stewart have all been extended. Slaton and a bunch are out of the league. Mendy, Felix and Kevin Smith will all be with new teams next year. The new Raiders GM doesn't strike me as a guy that would extend an oft injured RB, especially with the cap mess Al Davis left him. Strong possibility they draft a RB in the first couple rounds, or perhaps uncover a late gem to take DMC's place. One thing is for sure, he'll be with a new team in 2014.

I don't see how anyone has any information available to them at this time to be in a position to make a declarative statement of that regard. I mean it's fine to have that opinion and all but there has been nothing out of Oakland to suggest they are are done with him. So much undetermined at this point. Allen won't survive without significant improvement from the team and it's always possible he'll take Mckenzie down with him should he go. So I don't think we even have guarantees on who the head coach and GM of this team will be next season. Than you have his performance next season which one would think would go a long way towards setting his market for 2014, meaning at this point it's now known if he'd be expensive to resign or not. Not sure if you are using the fact he has not been extended a reason for this stance but since you introduced it here I assume that to be the case. A few flaws with that argument. He's the only out of that class to get a 6 year deals and all non first rounders were maxed at 4 years. He also got $26M guaranteed which is more than Johnson, Rice, Forte, and Charles got combined. In fact I think his total contract exceeded the dollar amounts on the rookie contracts for all of those RB's combined. Of course most of those guys performed well and with their shorter contracts their was a need to extend them that did not and has not existed with Mcfadden since he's always been highly compensated and under contract.

 

[Ernol]

I took Julio in a startup at 1.8, last year. I'd probably take him #1 overall this year. You won't see Victor Cruz taken in the 1st round of a startup (probably not even a 2nd rounder in most). By the way, by no means am I taking credit for the early #1 call on Julio as one particularly forward-thinking poster here ranked Julio #1 overall LAST YEAR.

Is that supposed to be a brag or something? Looks like a #### call to me.

No, for one, I didn’t make that call (although I personally think it was an excellent one). I simply expressed my opinion that Julio Jones is now the #1 overall dynasty player but did not want it to seem like I was trying to take credit for breaking any new ground since the ground had already been broken.

 

[Ernol]

By the way, he's in the last year of his contract in 2013. From his class so far Chris Johnson, Ray Rice, Matt Forte, Jamaal Charles and Stewart have all been extended. Slaton and a bunch are out of the league. Mendy, Felix and Kevin Smith will all be with new teams next year. The new Raiders GM doesn't strike me as a guy that would extend an oft injured RB, especially with the cap mess Al Davis left him. Strong possibility they draft a RB in the first couple rounds, or perhaps uncover a late gem to take DMC's place. One thing is for sure, he'll be with a new team in 2014.

I don't see how anyone has any information available to them at this time to be in a position to make a declarative statement of that regard. I mean it's fine to have that opinion and all but there has been nothing out of Oakland to suggest they are are done with him. So much undetermined at this point. Allen won't survive without significant improvement from the team and it's always possible he'll take Mckenzie down with him should he go. So I don't think we even have guarantees on who the head coach and GM of this team will be next season. Than you have his performance next season which one would think would go a long way towards setting his market for 2014, meaning at this point it's now known if he'd be expensive to resign or not. Not sure if you are using the fact he has not been extended a reason for this stance but since you introduced it here I assume that to be the case. A few flaws with that argument. He's the only out of that class to get a 6 year deals and all non first rounders were maxed at 4 years. He also got $26M guaranteed which is more than Johnson, Rice, Forte, and Charles got combined. In fact I think his total contract exceeded the dollar amounts on the rookie contracts for all of those RB's combined. Of course most of those guys performed well and with their shorter contracts their was a need to extend them that did not and has not existed with Mcfadden since he's always been highly compensated and under contract.

And good info regarding the contract.

 

[Donsmith753]

I took Julio in a startup at 1.8, last year. I'd probably take him #1 overall this year. You won't see Victor Cruz taken in the 1st round of a startup (probably not even a 2nd rounder in most). By the way, by no means am I taking credit for the early #1 call on Julio as one particularly forward-thinking poster here ranked Julio #1 overall LAST YEAR.

Is that supposed to be a brag or something? Looks like a #### call to me.

No, for one, I didn’t make that call (although I personally think it was an excellent one). I simply expressed my opinion that Julio Jones is now the #1 overall dynasty player but did not want it to seem like I was trying to take credit for breaking any new ground since the ground had already been broken.

Sorry but what's Julio Jones done to be ranked above AJ Green?

 

[bengalbuck]

I like the Graham side a lot. Next year I think it is about even if Fitz gets a decent quarterback, but Mcfadden's days as a lead back are pretty much done.

They just fired their OC and will likely tailor offense to DMC's talents.

What talent is that? Getting injured every season?McFadden is kind of like Stewart in the sense that at any given time there's at least one owner in your league who will buy the glass is half full argument. The difference is that I think Stewart is actually a good RB whereas I think McFadden is a pile of dog meat. I don't know how many years he has to disappoint people until they get the point and pawn him off to somebody else.

I disagree to a certain extent on McFadden. Two of the last three seasons, he was a beast when healthy. In the 2010-2011 seasons, he was scoring right around 20 PPG in PPR, elite numbers. He did look terrible in the zone blocking system last year. If they go back to the previous blocking scheme, there is a pretty good chance (in my opinion) that he is great on a PPG basis again in 2013. Especially if the Raiders take Joeckel at #3 in the draft and/or take some other measures to improve the OL. You will get zero argument from me about his health history however. I don't have a lot of confidence in him staying healthy all year. However, I would wager that when he is healthy, he will be a must start, top 10 play on a weekly basis. Clearly, you can't value him anywhere near the same tier as the elite guys who put up big numbers AND have shown the ability to stay healthy. But there just aren't a lot of guys in the league who have shown they can put up 200+ points over a 10 game stretch like he did in 2010. And even in 2011, if you just replaced him in your starting lineup after he was injured with M. Bush, you ended up with top 5 overall RB production for the season. He was top 3 in RB scoring at the time he went down. And he looked great doing it. Hard for me to buy your argument that he doesn't have talent.He is one of those guys where if you need don't have much RB depth, you should probably trade him for a safer guy (or avoid trading for him) you can count on. However, if you do have decent RB depth, he is a pretty attractive guy to own and worth more to hold onto than what you could in a trade for him. He is also a guy who if you own a team with a bad roster and you need to take some big chances if you hope to compete, he'd be a good guy to target. Sorry if this seems convoluted, but to me he's either a buy/hold or sell based upon the rest of your roster. Of the RBs you can get relatively inexpensively, he probably has the best chance to have a top 5 type of season.

 

[EBF]

I like the Graham side a lot. Next year I think it is about even if Fitz gets a decent quarterback, but Mcfadden's days as a lead back are pretty much done.

They just fired their OC and will likely tailor offense to DMC's talents.

What talent is that? Getting injured every season?McFadden is kind of like Stewart in the sense that at any given time there's at least one owner in your league who will buy the glass is half full argument. The difference is that I think Stewart is actually a good RB whereas I think McFadden is a pile of dog meat. I don't know how many years he has to disappoint people until they get the point and pawn him off to somebody else.

I disagree to a certain extent on McFadden. Two of the last three seasons, he was a beast when healthy. In the 2010-2011 seasons, he was scoring right around 20 PPG in PPR, elite numbers. He did look terrible in the zone blocking system last year. If they go back to the previous blocking scheme, there is a pretty good chance (in my opinion) that he is great on a PPG basis again in 2013. Especially if the Raiders take Joeckel at #3 in the draft and/or take some other measures to improve the OL. You will get zero argument from me about his health history however. I don't have a lot of confidence in him staying healthy all year. However, I would wager that when he is healthy, he will be a must start, top 10 play on a weekly basis. Clearly, you can't value him anywhere near the same tier as the elite guys who put up big numbers AND have shown the ability to stay healthy. But there just aren't a lot of guys in the league who have shown they can put up 200+ points over a 10 game stretch like he did in 2010. And even in 2011, if you just replaced him in your starting lineup after he was injured with M. Bush, you ended up with top 5 overall RB production for the season. He was top 3 in RB scoring at the time he went down. And he looked great doing it. Hard for me to buy your argument that he doesn't have talent.

He is one of those guys where if you need don't have much RB depth, you should probably trade him for a safer guy (or avoid trading for him) you can count on. However, if you do have decent RB depth, he is a pretty attractive guy to own and worth more to hold onto than what you could in a trade for him. He is also a guy who if you own a team with a bad roster and you need to take some big chances if you hope to compete, he'd be a good guy to target. Sorry if this seems convoluted, but to me he's either a buy/hold or sell based upon the rest of your roster. Of the RBs you can get relatively inexpensively, he probably has the best chance to have a top 5 type of season.

Every year brings a new excuse for McFadden. He had one good stretch of games in his career. So did Ron Dayne and Julius Jones. McFadden's only superlative talent is his straight-line speed. He's got no power to speak of and really poor phone booth agility. He gets hurt every season because he invites way too many collisions for a player with stick legs. He's just not that good. Probably not among the top 30 overall RBs in the NFL right now. I'm sure he'll be mediocre again next year before suffering some kind of season-ending lower body injury while showing just enough promise to convince his fanboys to re-up for another vicious cycle.

As a JStew owner in several different dynasty leagues, I get where the optimism is coming from. I just happen to think that McFadden is a comically bad running back.

 

[JackReacher]

I like the Graham side a lot. Next year I think it is about even if Fitz gets a decent quarterback, but Mcfadden's days as a lead back are pretty much done.

They just fired their OC and will likely tailor offense to DMC's talents.

What talent is that? Getting injured every season?McFadden is kind of like Stewart in the sense that at any given time there's at least one owner in your league who will buy the glass is half full argument. The difference is that I think Stewart is actually a good RB whereas I think McFadden is a pile of dog meat. I don't know how many years he has to disappoint people until they get the point and pawn him off to somebody else.

I disagree to a certain extent on McFadden. Two of the last three seasons, he was a beast when healthy. In the 2010-2011 seasons, he was scoring right around 20 PPG in PPR, elite numbers. He did look terrible in the zone blocking system last year. If they go back to the previous blocking scheme, there is a pretty good chance (in my opinion) that he is great on a PPG basis again in 2013. Especially if the Raiders take Joeckel at #3 in the draft and/or take some other measures to improve the OL. You will get zero argument from me about his health history however. I don't have a lot of confidence in him staying healthy all year. However, I would wager that when he is healthy, he will be a must start, top 10 play on a weekly basis. Clearly, you can't value him anywhere near the same tier as the elite guys who put up big numbers AND have shown the ability to stay healthy. But there just aren't a lot of guys in the league who have shown they can put up 200+ points over a 10 game stretch like he did in 2010. And even in 2011, if you just replaced him in your starting lineup after he was injured with M. Bush, you ended up with top 5 overall RB production for the season. He was top 3 in RB scoring at the time he went down. And he looked great doing it. Hard for me to buy your argument that he doesn't have talent.

He is one of those guys where if you need don't have much RB depth, you should probably trade him for a safer guy (or avoid trading for him) you can count on. However, if you do have decent RB depth, he is a pretty attractive guy to own and worth more to hold onto than what you could in a trade for him. He is also a guy who if you own a team with a bad roster and you need to take some big chances if you hope to compete, he'd be a good guy to target. Sorry if this seems convoluted, but to me he's either a buy/hold or sell based upon the rest of your roster. Of the RBs you can get relatively inexpensively, he probably has the best chance to have a top 5 type of season.

Every year brings a new excuse for McFadden. He had one good stretch of games in his career. So did Ron Dayne and Julius Jones. McFadden's only superlative talent is his straight-line speed. He's got no power to speak of and really poor phone booth agility. He gets hurt every season because he invites way too many collisions for a player with stick legs. He's just not that good. Probably not among the top 30 overall RBs in the NFL right now. I'm sure he'll be mediocre again next year before suffering some kind of season-ending lower body injury while showing just enough promise to convince his fanboys to re-up for another vicious cycle.

As a JStew owner in several different dynasty leagues, I get where the optimism is coming from. I just happen to think that McFadden is a comically bad running back.

Gotta give you credit. Everytime I think you've run out of negative ways to describe DMC, you pull another new one out of your ###.

 

[lbouchard]

I took Julio in a startup at 1.8, last year. I'd probably take him #1 overall this year. You won't see Victor Cruz taken in the 1st round of a startup (probably not even a 2nd rounder in most). By the way, by no means am I taking credit for the early #1 call on Julio as one particularly forward-thinking poster here ranked Julio #1 overall LAST YEAR.

Is that supposed to be a brag or something? Looks like a #### call to me.

No, for one, I didn’t make that call (although I personally think it was an excellent one). I simply expressed my opinion that Julio Jones is now the #1 overall dynasty player but did not want it to seem like I was trying to take credit for breaking any new ground since the ground had already been broken.

Why do you think Julio is number one overall dynasty asset?

 

[gianmarco]

I took Julio in a startup at 1.8, last year. I'd probably take him #1 overall this year. You won't see Victor Cruz taken in the 1st round of a startup (probably not even a 2nd rounder in most). By the way, by no means am I taking credit for the early #1 call on Julio as one particularly forward-thinking poster here ranked Julio #1 overall LAST YEAR.

Is that supposed to be a brag or something? Looks like a #### call to me.

No, for one, I didn't make that call (although I personally think it was an excellent one). I simply expressed my opinion that Julio Jones is now the #1 overall dynasty player but did not want it to seem like I was trying to take credit for breaking any new ground since the ground had already been broken.

Sorry but what's Julio Jones done to be ranked above AJ Green?

Both just finished their second year.AJG had 97/1353/11 on 165 targets.Julio had 79/1198/10 on 128 targets.It's going to be difficult for AJG to increase his targets very much. Julio has room to go up and his per target numbers are simply better. The same can be said for last year when AJG had 20 more targets but only 100 more yards and 1 fewer TD to boot. Then you factor in that Roddy, who is currently a huge target hog, will start to give those up to Julio and his numbers could be absolutely beastly. He's more of a physical specimen, has a better QB, plays indoors during home games, and is younger.You're talking about two blue chip WRs here and I'd have no issue with anyone putting AJG over Julio. These guys are 1a and 1b and belong in the exact same tier. But to question why someone has Julio over AJG based on both the numbers as well as how they've looked is silly.

 

[ConnSKINS26]

I think you mean 2a and 2b, behind Calvin.

 

[gianmarco]

I think you mean 2a and 2b, behind Calvin.

No, I don't.

 

[Skeletore Eh]

Just went down in a PPR leagueTeam A Larry Fitzgerald Russell Wilson Teams BMike Wallace1.5

Really a string of three tradesBeer Gardeners gave up Fitzgerald, Larry ARI WRThe Clam gave up Wallace, Mike PIT WR; Year 2013 Round 1 Draft Pick from Ringworm (1.10)-------------------------------------------------------Beer Gardeners gave up Wallace, Mike PIT WRComatose Sleepers gave up Murray, DeMarco DAL RB-------------------------------------------------------The Clam gave up Henne, Chad JAC QB; Year 2013 Round 1 Draft Pick from Springfield Atoms (1.05)Beer Gardeners gave up Wilson, Russell SEA QB; Year 2013 Round 1 Draft Pick from Ringworm (1.10)

 

[r0llin_game]

Just went down in a PPR leagueTeam A Larry Fitzgerald Russell Wilson Teams BMike Wallace1.5

Really a string of three tradesBeer Gardeners gave up Fitzgerald, Larry ARI WRThe Clam gave up Wallace, Mike PIT WR; Year 2013 Round 1 Draft Pick from Ringworm (1.10)-------------------------------------------------------Beer Gardeners gave up Wallace, Mike PIT WRComatose Sleepers gave up Murray, DeMarco DAL RB-------------------------------------------------------The Clam gave up Henne, Chad JAC QB; Year 2013 Round 1 Draft Pick from Springfield Atoms (1.05)Beer Gardeners gave up Wilson, Russell SEA QB; Year 2013 Round 1 Draft Pick from Ringworm (1.10)

Dear god, I hate every single person posting a Wilson trade when it's absurd like 1.05 for Wilson/1.10 /rant

 

[EBF]

I like the Graham side a lot. Next year I think it is about even if Fitz gets a decent quarterback, but Mcfadden's days as a lead back are pretty much done.

They just fired their OC and will likely tailor offense to DMC's talents.

What talent is that? Getting injured every season?McFadden is kind of like Stewart in the sense that at any given time there's at least one owner in your league who will buy the glass is half full argument. The difference is that I think Stewart is actually a good RB whereas I think McFadden is a pile of dog meat. I don't know how many years he has to disappoint people until they get the point and pawn him off to somebody else.

I disagree to a certain extent on McFadden. Two of the last three seasons, he was a beast when healthy. In the 2010-2011 seasons, he was scoring right around 20 PPG in PPR, elite numbers. He did look terrible in the zone blocking system last year. If they go back to the previous blocking scheme, there is a pretty good chance (in my opinion) that he is great on a PPG basis again in 2013. Especially if the Raiders take Joeckel at #3 in the draft and/or take some other measures to improve the OL. You will get zero argument from me about his health history however. I don't have a lot of confidence in him staying healthy all year. However, I would wager that when he is healthy, he will be a must start, top 10 play on a weekly basis. Clearly, you can't value him anywhere near the same tier as the elite guys who put up big numbers AND have shown the ability to stay healthy. But there just aren't a lot of guys in the league who have shown they can put up 200+ points over a 10 game stretch like he did in 2010. And even in 2011, if you just replaced him in your starting lineup after he was injured with M. Bush, you ended up with top 5 overall RB production for the season. He was top 3 in RB scoring at the time he went down. And he looked great doing it. Hard for me to buy your argument that he doesn't have talent.

He is one of those guys where if you need don't have much RB depth, you should probably trade him for a safer guy (or avoid trading for him) you can count on. However, if you do have decent RB depth, he is a pretty attractive guy to own and worth more to hold onto than what you could in a trade for him. He is also a guy who if you own a team with a bad roster and you need to take some big chances if you hope to compete, he'd be a good guy to target. Sorry if this seems convoluted, but to me he's either a buy/hold or sell based upon the rest of your roster. Of the RBs you can get relatively inexpensively, he probably has the best chance to have a top 5 type of season.

Every year brings a new excuse for McFadden. He had one good stretch of games in his career. So did Ron Dayne and Julius Jones. McFadden's only superlative talent is his straight-line speed. He's got no power to speak of and really poor phone booth agility. He gets hurt every season because he invites way too many collisions for a player with stick legs. He's just not that good. Probably not among the top 30 overall RBs in the NFL right now. I'm sure he'll be mediocre again next year before suffering some kind of season-ending lower body injury while showing just enough promise to convince his fanboys to re-up for another vicious cycle.

As a JStew owner in several different dynasty leagues, I get where the optimism is coming from. I just happen to think that McFadden is a comically bad running back.

Gotta give you credit. Everytime I think you've run out of negative ways to describe DMC, you pull another new one out of your ###.

I am almost as good at ripping DMC as DMC is at sabotaging FF seasons for people who rely on him.

 

[EBF]

As for Julio, if you're going to convince me that he's the #1 overall dynasty player, you could start by convincing me that he's better than Demaryius Thomas and Dez Bryant.

 

[Chazzhawk]

I like the Graham side a lot. Next year I think it is about even if Fitz gets a decent quarterback, but Mcfadden's days as a lead back are pretty much done.

They just fired their OC and will likely tailor offense to DMC's talents. I see no signs of OAK moving on from him.

I agree with that but I see them bring in someone to help him stay on the field all year. I see more of a time share in his future.

Raiders GM Reggie McKenzie told reporters Thursday that he is committed to Darren McFadden as Oakland's starting tailback for 2013.Like coach Dennis Allen, McKenzie is attributing McFadden's 2012 struggles to simply being a poor system fit for outgoing OC Greg Knapp's zone-blocking scheme. "He's not a lateral mover," McKenzie said of McFadden's running style. The Raiders are expected to turn back to a power-blocking, gap-based running system in 2013. McFadden is owed a pricey $5.856 million base salary.

I guess this is the first anyone lied or changed their mind between taking a job now and when the games actually begin in September

 

[Ernol]

I took Julio in a startup at 1.8, last year. I'd probably take him #1 overall this year. You won't see Victor Cruz taken in the 1st round of a startup (probably not even a 2nd rounder in most). By the way, by no means am I taking credit for the early #1 call on Julio as one particularly forward-thinking poster here ranked Julio #1 overall LAST YEAR.

Is that supposed to be a brag or something? Looks like a #### call to me.

No, for one, I didn’t make that call (although I personally think it was an excellent one). I simply expressed my opinion that Julio Jones is now the #1 overall dynasty player but did not want it to seem like I was trying to take credit for breaking any new ground since the ground had already been broken.

Sorry but what's Julio Jones done to be ranked above AJ Green?

I love both almost equally. Where I took Jones last year at 1.8, I traded up to take AJ Green at 1.10. In every league I have Julio, I also have AJ Green. Where I would take Julio #1 overall, I would take AJ Green #2 or #3 (tossup with Calvin). Both are clearly elite, but Julio impresses me as a receiver that will break 350+ in PPR in the very near future (perhaps it’s Matt Ryan and the Falcons’ high powered offense, Julio’s ability to take a short screen or slant to the house or his elite measurables) while Green a consistent 300. Julio is also almost a year younger, and while that is minor, it is something that will be more material to their trade values as the two start to approach the late 20s (enough at least to tip the scales on such equal talents).In the end though, whether I swapped the two and put Green at #1 overall because of his own unique talents, it would make little difference to me.

 

[Ernol]

As for Julio, if you're going to convince me that he's the #1 overall dynasty player, you could start by convincing me that he's better than Demaryius Thomas and Dez Bryant.

I’d rather not turn this into a Julio vs players X, Y, Z and the world thread just because I made one statement about my own personal rankings as it related to a Julio/Cruz trade. But who are you kidding, there is no convincing you of anything once you’ve made up your mind on a player or a concept.

 

[Lott's Fingertip]

I just happen to think that McFadden is a comically bad running back.

I think McFadden is a pile of dog meat.

This is comically bad hyperbole. EBF, you have an intelligent and thoughtful take on players, but you have a serious blind spot on McFadden.He had a string of 19 games over 1 1/2 seasons where he was a stud almost every game. He average well over 5 yards per carry and right at 10 yards per reception in that time, and had 127+ yfs/g. Julius Jones had a pretty good run... and never sniffed those numbers, barely getting 4 ypc and right around 100 yfs. Ron Dayne? Come on, he didn't even sniff J.Jones' numbers.I don't even like McFadden and agree with some of your points regarding him... but to say he has no talent? Indefensible.