ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
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2013 Off Season Dynasty Trade Thread (for completed trades) (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter squistion
- Start date
The_Head_Ape
Footballguy
10 team start-2-QB
1.01, 1.08, and 2.04
For
Jamaal Charles
Team that gave up Charles is in serious rebuild mode.
1.01, 1.08, and 2.04
For
Jamaal Charles
Team that gave up Charles is in serious rebuild mode.
One More Rep
Footballguy
Charles
This is a good rant even if it came out of nowhere. If I could flip Alf for David Wilson I would, according to root's RB dynasty ranking that just came out today it is possible. http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nfl/42696/69/dynasty-ranks-running-backs'JPeso said:
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Seems kinda dumb to pay top 5 price when he is nowhere remotely close to top 5 yet. I mean.............couldt he just have waited??I wouldn't call Wilson top 5 RB but I also wouldn't fault a guy for going after a player he has faith in that could be a top 5 type. Time will tell as we all know.I wouldn't straight up. Harvin/Rudolph/Bush is probably more than you have to pay in most leagues for Wilson, but top 5 dynasty RBs come at a premium so I don’t think this is crazy for the acquiring owner. This may look like a bargain by the end of next year.I'd prefer Harvin over Wilson straight up.
Is what he paid top 5 price? Who are ur top 5 RBs and would this deal been accepted for, for example AP, Trent, Foster or Martin? I wouldn't accept it for either of those guys. So was it top 5 price?Seems kinda dumb to pay top 5 price when he is nowhere remotely close to top 5 yet. I mean.............couldt he just have waited??I wouldn't call Wilson top 5 RB but I also wouldn't fault a guy for going after a player he has faith in that could be a top 5 type. Time will tell as we all know.I wouldn't straight up. Harvin/Rudolph/Bush is probably more than you have to pay in most leagues for Wilson, but top 5 dynasty RBs come at a premium so I don’t think this is crazy for the acquiring owner. This may look like a bargain by the end of next year.
gianmarco
Footballguy
Can you get Richardson for Harvin? Could you get Rice or McCoy a year or two ago for current day Harvin? If Wilson does what some think he can, you won't be able to touch him for anything reasonable. That was Ernol's point above. There we go again stating something "seems kinda dumb".Seems kinda dumb to pay top 5 price when he is nowhere remotely close to top 5 yet. I mean.............couldt he just have waited??I wouldn't call Wilson top 5 RB but I also wouldn't fault a guy for going after a player he has faith in that could be a top 5 type. Time will tell as we all know.I wouldn't straight up. Harvin/Rudolph/Bush is probably more than you have to pay in most leagues for Wilson, but top 5 dynasty RBs come at a premium so I don’t think this is crazy for the acquiring owner. This may look like a bargain by the end of next year.
Lott's Fingertip
Footballguy
One More Rep
Footballguy
Can you get Richardson for Harvin? Could you get Rice or McCoy a year or two ago for current day Harvin? If Wilson does what some think he can, you won't be able to touch him for anything reasonable. That was Ernol's point above. There we go again stating something "seems kinda dumb".Seems kinda dumb to pay top 5 price when he is nowhere remotely close to top 5 yet. I mean.............couldt he just have waited??I wouldn't call Wilson top 5 RB but I also wouldn't fault a guy for going after a player he has faith in that could be a top 5 type. Time will tell as we all know.I wouldn't straight up. Harvin/Rudolph/Bush is probably more than you have to pay in most leagues for Wilson, but top 5 dynasty RBs come at a premium so I don’t think this is crazy for the acquiring owner. This may look like a bargain by the end of next year.
Kleck
Footballguy
So is the Harvin hype. I'd be selling both at some of the prices I keep seeing.
thriftyrocker
Footballguy
Cosign. The one league I have Morris I offered him for Wilson straight up in Nov or so but it was turned down. Don't agree with those rankings for a lot of reasons though. Hopefully Wesseling will do rankings for NFL.com.
thriftyrocker
Footballguy
12 team PPR
qb, rb, rb, wr, wr, wr, flex, te, d, k
Mark Ingram
Denarius Moore
for
Josh Gordon
qb, rb, rb, wr, wr, wr, flex, te, d, k
Mark Ingram
Denarius Moore
for
Josh Gordon
ghostguy123
Footballguy
I guess I don't view Rudolph and Bush as worthless throw ins, and I probably am in the club that takes Harvin over Wilson in a PPR league (depending on roster makeup where I am strong at WR and need some RBs I would take WIlson and hope for the best). I get Ernol's point just fine. I just don't think Wilson is gonna be top 5. If he does become top 5 then sure, it might cost more in a lot of leagues to get him. But then again in a lot of leagues, and based on numerous trades in this thread alone, Harvin/Rudolph/Bush type value HAS gotten top 5 RBs in trade. Hell in one of my $750 dynasty leagues Richardson was traded for Decker/Sproles. Pretty sure I would prefer Harvin/Rudolph/Bush to that. Then again when some people get a RB they view as top 5, the would't trade the guy for a handful of Harvins. I guess what I am saying is, if I had Wilson and was offered that, I would feel pretty good about taking it.Can you get Richardson for Harvin? Could you get Rice or McCoy a year or two ago for current day Harvin? If Wilson does what some think he can, you won't be able to touch him for anything reasonable. That was Ernol's point above. There we go again stating something "seems kinda dumb".Seems kinda dumb to pay top 5 price when he is nowhere remotely close to top 5 yet. I mean.............couldt he just have waited??I wouldn't call Wilson top 5 RB but I also wouldn't fault a guy for going after a player he has faith in that could be a top 5 type. Time will tell as we all know.I wouldn't straight up. Harvin/Rudolph/Bush is probably more than you have to pay in most leagues for Wilson, but top 5 dynasty RBs come at a premium so I don’t think this is crazy for the acquiring owner. This may look like a bargain by the end of next year.
ExaltedOne
Footballguy
Unless this league has special tightend scoring i don't see this as remotely close. Of course, I don't believe in Quizz as a starter.
Bamac
Footballguy
I'm a Hernandez guy, but I'll take DT and Alf.
Skeletore Eh
Footballguy
I'll take the 2.10 and the 14 first. I'd say the 14 first is the most valuable piece in the trade.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
Concept Coop
Footballguy
Thanks. Typo on my part. Did mean Wilson, and did mean NFL draft.
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Concept Coop
Footballguy
Same boat; love Hernandez, love Cruz, like getting Quizz as a throw in. But DT is the biggest part in the deal by a good margin.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Seems he's more a straight forward reporter there than a fantasy guy. I'm only basing that on his tweets though haven't been to the site.
One More Rep
Footballguy
Thomas side
One More Rep
Footballguy
I will take the 1.10
Concept Coop
Footballguy
The following was just agreed to and accepted. Will likely be testing Cobb's market, but happy to get him for this.
1ppr QRRWWWTF 12 Team (No return TDs)
Gave:
Britt
Ballard
2014 2nd
Got:
Cobb
1ppr QRRWWWTF 12 Team (No return TDs)
Gave:
Britt
Ballard
2014 2nd
Got:
Cobb
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thriftyrocker
Footballguy
Change in heart, or flipping him to someone who believes more? Good return on Britt who can be hard to sell.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
Not a change of heart, as I still don't like him at his ADP. I originally wanted Fitz, and after trading a few counters, he sent a deal that included Cobb. After a couple days we agreed to this. I'll test his market, certainly. But I wouldn't mind keeping him at all. The owner sending Cobb has Fitz/Roddy/Wallace, and very little at RB. He liked the idea of getting Ballard. Could work out for both teams.
Looks like a trade that is way too valuable to pass up. I view Cobb as WR15 range, and I'd still insta-accept that offer (then look to move him for Cruz, or perhaps adding more pieces for Harvin).
One More Rep
Footballguy
I will take the 1.6
ExaltedOne
Footballguy
I see a pattern here. You must be really high on this draft, always preferring the picks in every trade. I think this trade is pretty even.
One More Rep
Footballguy
I do not like Mathews or Mendenhall, Smith is up there in age so by default I like the pick. I would not say I am high on the draft, I would just rather take a shot on the pick than a guy I do not trust.
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squistion
Footballguy
It might be nice if you could give an explanation for your reasoning on the trades you comment on (which appear to be on just about every trade in this thread). It would save people the time to question your rationale that you could have given in the first place. Just my
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It is possible, and quite understandable. It is also why David Wilson can still be had in many leagues at the RB7-10 level even where the current owner likes him. There is built-in profit at that price imo.
Here are/were my thoughts on David Wilson (this was before the release of Bradshaw - my ranking has gone up since that time):
David Wilson - The Next CJ Spiller
Feb 04, 2013 11:06 PM Filed in: Fantasy Football Trades | Fantasy Football Market Value | High Stakes Dynasty Leagues | FFPC
Is David Wilson the next CJ Spiller?
Like Spiller, Wilson is an electric back that can explode around the corner with great acceleration. While not quite as fast as Spiller, there is little doubt in my mind that Wilson is just as big a threat to take any particular carry to the house.
While dynamic like Spiller, the report on Wilson from his college days was that he runs with more power. The limited footage of Wilson’s rookie season appears to be bearing this out. Wilson’s inside game and power may be better suited for taking on a greater feature back workload (and the all important goal line work) than Spiller’s.
Spiller’s advantage over Wilson at this point was/is Spiller’s ability as a receiver. If you recall, Spiller’s receiving skills were so good that Buffalo even dabbled using Spiller as a slot receiver (the reverse Percy Harvin). In PPR, Spiller’s receiving ability can potentially make all the difference in the world. While I don’t think Wilson will ever match Spiller in that area, I do believe he’ll receive enough screen passes and dump offs in the flat to be a fantastic PPR running back.
As for their situations following their rookie seasons, the two backs are very similar in that regard. Like Spiller, Wilson played as a backup his rookie year. In Wilson’s case, he barely saw the field for most of the year (due to one inopportune fumble landing him in the dog house). Both players made their marks as gifted kickoff returners. Both were seemingly underutilized but destined to do much more.
Like the Bills’ situation going into 2011, the Giants’ backfield has the looks of an RBBC going into 2013 as well. I’d say, however, that Wilson’s situation today is superior to that of Spiller’s in 2011 from an opportunity perspective and a standpoint of how that situation is likely to affect Wilson’s value following 2013. Bradshaw for one is the walking wounded, and even when healthy, Wilson may prove to be too good to keep in an RBBC. Bradshaw, while turning only 27, is not nearly the back that Fred Jackson was at age 30 (and is not even the back that Bradshaw himself was just a few years ago). Bradshaw does not present the obstacle to Wilson’s ascension to a starting role that Jackson did to Spiller’s. Advantage Wilson. Spiller ended up playing behind Fred Jackson in Year 2 until Jackson got hurt, after which Spiller strutted his stuff. I think Wilson can do the same if/when given the same opportunity. By the way, in case he crossed your mind, I don’t believe Andre Brown poses any real threat to Wilson in that regard.
From a performance standpoint, while both backs did little in their rookie seasons, Wilson showed more. Spiller believers were left to latch onto his performances in college to support their continued faith in him, while Wilson supporters at least have some NFL footage to go by as well. Unfortunately, this means that David Wilson may not come at the same discount that Spiller did back in 2011, but I don’t think Wilson is that much more hyped than Spiller was either. Wilson is still obtainable by trade (albeit at a price perceived by many to be highly inflated – personally, I think he is still way undervalued).
In any event, I am not here to tell you that Wilson is now or will be in a few years better than Spiller from a skills or performance perspective. I believe Spiller is still on the rise. Wilson will not be out-producing Spiller any time soon. I’m not about to be so bold to tell you that Wilson is more talented than Spiller. Spiller may be the most talented back in the NFL.
What I am saying though is that Wilson’s dynasty value has a very good chance of surpassing that of Spiller if not by the end of this year, then by the end of the next; and it is all made possible by the greatest equalizer in dynasty fantasy football, age.
At this point in Spiller’s career (i.e., after his rookie year), Spiller was 23. Wilson is only 21. That’s a 2 year advantage to Wilson, a significant advantage to say the least. Take Spiller today, a fantastic young RB (25 going on 26) with the promise of a great career ahead of him. His dynasty value is already a top 12 overall player as it should be. Now, imagine if Spiller were just 23 going on 24 (which is what Wilson would be after his third year). What would his value be then? Arguably, the #1 player overall!
Wilson has two years to equal what Spiller has done up to this point, which is to produce a fantasy season commensurate with an RB1. That certainly is no easy feat, but I do believe that there is a very good chance that he will. If he does reach that level of production, I believe he will be considered at that time the #1 player overall in dynasty, a designation carrying with it immense value.
How much is that “potential” worth to you today? For me, it is a top 7 or 8 RB value and a top 20 overall dynasty player. Sound crazy for a running back that has rushed for only 358 yards in his career? Maybe, but I think there is a very good chance that I am STILL undervaluing him at that ranking.
David Wilson - The Next CJ Spiller
Feb 04, 2013 11:06 PM Filed in: Fantasy Football Trades | Fantasy Football Market Value | High Stakes Dynasty Leagues | FFPC
Is David Wilson the next CJ Spiller?
Like Spiller, Wilson is an electric back that can explode around the corner with great acceleration. While not quite as fast as Spiller, there is little doubt in my mind that Wilson is just as big a threat to take any particular carry to the house.
While dynamic like Spiller, the report on Wilson from his college days was that he runs with more power. The limited footage of Wilson’s rookie season appears to be bearing this out. Wilson’s inside game and power may be better suited for taking on a greater feature back workload (and the all important goal line work) than Spiller’s.
Spiller’s advantage over Wilson at this point was/is Spiller’s ability as a receiver. If you recall, Spiller’s receiving skills were so good that Buffalo even dabbled using Spiller as a slot receiver (the reverse Percy Harvin). In PPR, Spiller’s receiving ability can potentially make all the difference in the world. While I don’t think Wilson will ever match Spiller in that area, I do believe he’ll receive enough screen passes and dump offs in the flat to be a fantastic PPR running back.
As for their situations following their rookie seasons, the two backs are very similar in that regard. Like Spiller, Wilson played as a backup his rookie year. In Wilson’s case, he barely saw the field for most of the year (due to one inopportune fumble landing him in the dog house). Both players made their marks as gifted kickoff returners. Both were seemingly underutilized but destined to do much more.
Like the Bills’ situation going into 2011, the Giants’ backfield has the looks of an RBBC going into 2013 as well. I’d say, however, that Wilson’s situation today is superior to that of Spiller’s in 2011 from an opportunity perspective and a standpoint of how that situation is likely to affect Wilson’s value following 2013. Bradshaw for one is the walking wounded, and even when healthy, Wilson may prove to be too good to keep in an RBBC. Bradshaw, while turning only 27, is not nearly the back that Fred Jackson was at age 30 (and is not even the back that Bradshaw himself was just a few years ago). Bradshaw does not present the obstacle to Wilson’s ascension to a starting role that Jackson did to Spiller’s. Advantage Wilson. Spiller ended up playing behind Fred Jackson in Year 2 until Jackson got hurt, after which Spiller strutted his stuff. I think Wilson can do the same if/when given the same opportunity. By the way, in case he crossed your mind, I don’t believe Andre Brown poses any real threat to Wilson in that regard.
From a performance standpoint, while both backs did little in their rookie seasons, Wilson showed more. Spiller believers were left to latch onto his performances in college to support their continued faith in him, while Wilson supporters at least have some NFL footage to go by as well. Unfortunately, this means that David Wilson may not come at the same discount that Spiller did back in 2011, but I don’t think Wilson is that much more hyped than Spiller was either. Wilson is still obtainable by trade (albeit at a price perceived by many to be highly inflated – personally, I think he is still way undervalued).
In any event, I am not here to tell you that Wilson is now or will be in a few years better than Spiller from a skills or performance perspective. I believe Spiller is still on the rise. Wilson will not be out-producing Spiller any time soon. I’m not about to be so bold to tell you that Wilson is more talented than Spiller. Spiller may be the most talented back in the NFL.
What I am saying though is that Wilson’s dynasty value has a very good chance of surpassing that of Spiller if not by the end of this year, then by the end of the next; and it is all made possible by the greatest equalizer in dynasty fantasy football, age.
At this point in Spiller’s career (i.e., after his rookie year), Spiller was 23. Wilson is only 21. That’s a 2 year advantage to Wilson, a significant advantage to say the least. Take Spiller today, a fantastic young RB (25 going on 26) with the promise of a great career ahead of him. His dynasty value is already a top 12 overall player as it should be. Now, imagine if Spiller were just 23 going on 24 (which is what Wilson would be after his third year). What would his value be then? Arguably, the #1 player overall!
Wilson has two years to equal what Spiller has done up to this point, which is to produce a fantasy season commensurate with an RB1. That certainly is no easy feat, but I do believe that there is a very good chance that he will. If he does reach that level of production, I believe he will be considered at that time the #1 player overall in dynasty, a designation carrying with it immense value.
How much is that “potential” worth to you today? For me, it is a top 7 or 8 RB value and a top 20 overall dynasty player. Sound crazy for a running back that has rushed for only 358 yards in his career? Maybe, but I think there is a very good chance that I am STILL undervaluing him at that ranking.
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Concept Coop
Footballguy
Thanks for the quality read. My thoughts, if you don't mind:
This doesn't really ring true with me. Spiller is a 4.2+ guy, Wilson is a 4.4+ guy. I think I recall Wilson dealing with some kind of injury and running slower than he normally ran (I think he or his dad claimed 4.2 or 4.19 - something crazy like that), but Spiller is on another level, in my opinion. And that makes a big difference. What is Chris Johnson with 4.4 speed?
Where do you see Wilson running particularly strong? He seemed to go down on first contact and didn't really grind out any yardage. Small sample size, of course. But I didn't see future goal line back based on his NFL carries.
I don't agree with this. Spiller was in a much worse situation, while Andre Brown looked like a stud behind the Giants line. In 2010, Lynch only posted a 3.5 YPC mark, for some context.
Age does matter, and it is a major plus for Wilson. But Spilelr is in his window. It's not a lock Wilson starts next season - he's not the bet for RB1 numbers that Spiller is. It could take him time to be a 20 touch guy, assuming he eventually becomes that.
I respect the call. The potential for payoff is there.
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Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
As the owner that traded Wilson away for Harvin, Bush and Rudolph, I can definately see the side of those defending the owner getting Wilson. I loved Wilson, but just saw the offer as too much value to pass up.The stregnth of my team has always been at WR and after trading Victor Cruz away for Colin Kapenernick (right before the NFL playoffs), I can now replace Curz with Harvin to go along with Calvin Johnson and Julio Jones. I love having 3 top 10 WRs.I'm not all that high on Reggie Bush, but can get two to three servicable years out of him and I've always managed to cobble together a backfield.Rudolph is a young TE I like and helps me hedge against Owen Daniels fading after what I think was a season of him over-achieving a bit.I still own Wilson in another league and love the guy. I do beleive he's worth the hype, but sometimes you just feel like you HAVE to take an offer that's sent you way just based on the value. I'm happy to have Harvin so I'll have no regrets since I'm expecting Wilson to shine this year.
Thanks Coop. Two reasonable minds can look at the same things and come up with entirely different conclusions.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
And that's fair, but I plan on moving both Michael Vick and Torrey Smith (players who won't be starting for me) to hopefully move up to the 1.05 range. If I can get TWO of my TOP FIVE GUYS. I will be a very happy camper.The 1.01 and 1.05 last year garnered Trent Richardson + Robert Griffin III. The cost to acquire said picks was very low compared to the value those two players now hold.EDIT: I always mortgage my future for the present. I went into last season without a 1st Round Draft Pick and now I own the 1.01 and the 1.10. When draft time comes along next year, I will have hopefully swindled away a few player's 1st Round selections.
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thriftyrocker
Footballguy
What is Ahmad Bradshaw with 4.4 speed? And no foot problems? And no Brandon Jacobs.I think most Wilson proponents treat him like a 4.3 guy even though he timed out at 4.49. He plays fast, and has timed faster than his combine time. His other measureables indicate speed, fast-twitch athlete, etc.If he plays fast, who cares what he timed.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
He led all NCAA RBs in yards after initial contact in 2011, his last season.
Who cares about his 40 time? We saw the guy run past everyone in the open field numerous times last season.
One More Rep
Footballguy
I do like to post which side I prefer in trades that are made and when I post a trade I like to see which side other members prefer. I really do not think my opinion is going to change anyone's mind and no one else is going to change mine. If someone questions my thinking then I will gladly reply.It might be nice if you could give an explanation for your reasoning on the trades you comment on (which appears to be on just about every trade in this thread). It would save people the time to question your rationale that you could have given in the first place. Just my
Concept Coop
Footballguy
Of course he plays fast. But it is the context by which we are comparing him to CJ Spiller. It matters. I know 40 isn't perfect, and if someone wanted to argue Wilson was as fast as Spiller despite 40 times, I'd listen. But the fact that Spiller is faster matters when comparing the two.My CJ2K comment was simply to illustrate that. It was rhetorical, but simply my suggestion that CJ2K wouldn't be who he is with 4.4 speed, despite 4.4 being really fast and fast enough to pull away.
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Concept Coop
Footballguy
Thanks for that.
Do you have a link? Not because I don't believe you, but because I'd love to look at the numbers.
Skeletore Eh
Footballguy
I would say the value of the 1.01 last year wasn't much less than the value of Trent Richardson right now. Plenty of people valued Trent as a top 3 dynasty back way before the start of the season, before the 2012 nfl draft, before he even declared for the draft, and so on. Trading for the 1.01 last year was difficult to say the least. You're also not getting a player at the 1.01 this year that is at the level of a top 5 pick last year. Comparing these two drafts as a reference point is a faulty claim.
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Skeletore Eh
Footballguy
I think the value of this thread is the discussions as to why a person prefers one side or the other. Posting "I prefer this side" doesn't contribute much to the discussion. Posting "I prefer this side because" does.I do like to post which side I prefer in trades that are made and when I post a trade I like to see which side other members prefer. I really do not think my opinion is going to change anyone's mind and no one else is going to change mine. If someone questions my thinking then I will gladly reply.It might be nice if you could give an explanation for your reasoning on the trades you comment on (which appears to be on just about every trade in this thread). It would save people the time to question your rationale that you could have given in the first place. Just my
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