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2015 NBA Thread: I felt a great disturbance in the trolls, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. (1 Viewer)

thecatch said:
The Spanish team has the talent on paper to compete with several NBA teams (Gasols, Ibaka, Calderon, Rubio, Mirotic, a couple of other ex-NBA guys). Pau was thinking about skipping it though, so who knows what the actual team will end up looking like. 
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That's gotta be a playoff team.

 
Cliff Clavin said:
That's gotta be a playoff team.
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With Ibaka maybe. Is he playing this year? 

Without him they're basically a shallower, crappier version of the lottery-bound Bulls. Only upgrade is M Gasol in the second frontcourt spot. That's obviously a decent upgrade, but IMO it's more than outweighed by the Butler/Rose backcourt and depth of Chicago.

 
TobiasFunke said:
With Ibaka maybe. Is he playing this year? 

Without him they're basically a shallower, crappier version of the lottery-bound Bulls. Only upgrade is M Gasol in the second frontcourt spot. That's obviously a decent upgrade, but IMO it's more than outweighed by the Butler/Rose backcourt and depth of Chicago.
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Was assuming that the countries had all their players going. I also believe that the "chemistry" the top foreign teams have from playing with each other for so long would have a decent impact .

You use Rose's name as if it is a good thing.

 
Remember when Love for Klay was about to be a thing? That was fun.

 
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thecatch said:
The Spanish team has the talent on paper to compete with several NBA teams (Gasols, Ibaka, Calderon, Rubio, Mirotic, a couple of other ex-NBA guys). Pau was thinking about skipping it though, so who knows what the actual team will end up looking like. 
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huh

' Nikola Mirotić Stajović is a Montenegrin-Spanish professional basketball player '

 
TobiasFunke said:
With Ibaka maybe. Is he playing this year? 

Without him they're basically a shallower, crappier version of the lottery-bound Bulls. Only upgrade is M Gasol in the second frontcourt spot. That's obviously a decent upgrade, but IMO it's more than outweighed by the Butler/Rose backcourt and depth of Chicago.
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They certainly don't have a backcourt superstar like Butler, but IIRC the Spanish guards tend to play much better in international ball than they did in the NBA.

 
Cliff Clavin said:
Was assuming that the countries had all their players going. I also believe that the "chemistry" the top foreign teams have from playing with each other for so long would have a decent impact .

You use Rose's name as if it is a good thing.
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I feel like if we're gonna use Jose Calderon's name as if its a good thing I should be able to do this.

 
Cliff Clavin said:
At least he can shoot and pass :shrug:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&y1=2016&p1=caldejo01&y2=2016&p2=rosede01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

Damn, he even out rebounded Rose this year! WS/48 wasn't even close.
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I'm not sure I trust anything that suggests that Calderon is a better defender than Rose.  Not that Rose is anything special; I'm not sure I trust anything that suggests that Calderon is a better defender than one of his hams.

 
Protocols of Stringer Bell said:
Hypothetical - suppose Team USA sent an actual NBA team instead of collection of players for the Olympics.  I believe value of a group of players that are used to playing together is significantly meaningful.  How good would that team have to be to medal?  Like is Portland good enough?  Could a non playoff team pull it off?  
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I think Portland would win rather easily. Their only loss would be Aminu and I think their roster fits FIBA ball pretty well. 

As far as non-playoff teams go, if you just ignore nationalities and send the full team I think all but the very worst (Nets, Lakers, 76ers) would win. In terms of teams that would actually be able to field close to a full squad of Americans I think the Wizards would be my pick. No Gortat or Nene but I don't think that would be a problem. 

 
TobiasFunke said:
I feel like if we're gonna use Jose Calderon's name as if its a good thing I should be able to do this.
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I don't even know how much Calderon would play at this point. Their ex-NBA guards are pretty good (Sergio Rodriguez, Rudy Fernandez, Juan Carlos Navarro). None of those guys left because of a lack of NBA interest.

 
TobiasFunke said:
I'm not sure I trust anything that suggests that Calderon is a better defender than Rose.  Not that Rose is anything special; I'm not sure I trust anything that suggests that Calderon is a better defender than one of his hams.
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I wouldn't have thought it would be close either. The fact that there is an easy statistical argument in favor of Calderon shows how freaking terrible Rose is/was.

On/Off

Calderon +.08

Rose -4.8 :X

ESPNs RPM has Calderon far, far ahead of Rose also. Rose ranked 81st out of 85 qualified PGs. Their DRPM has Rose ranked 82nd of 85; Calderon 31st.

 
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With healthy Gasol brothers in the international format, I think Spain would spank a number of the non-playoff teams. They have a ton of shooters around 3 all-star (maybe near all-star at this point of their careers) caliber NBA bigs. I think they would be a mid-seed eastern conference playoff team, maybe better.

 
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Kev4029 said:
I don't even know how much Calderon would play at this point. Their ex-NBA guards are pretty good (Sergio Rodriguez, Rudy Fernandez, Juan Carlos Navarro). None of those guys left because of a lack of NBA interest.
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Llull is probably a better player at this point as well. I think Calderon was hurt but Llull and Rudy started for them at last year's Eurobasket.

 
Cliff Clavin said:
I wouldn't have thought it would be close either. The fact that there is an easy statistical argument in favor of Calderon shows how freaking terrible Rose is/was.

On/Off

Calderon +.08

Rose -4.8 :X
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It's the Calderon + that gets me.  How is that possible?  Maybe his bullfighter act on the perimeter was part of a con to force guards right into the waiting arms of Robin Lopez.  Clever.

 
Kev4029 said:
With healthy Gasoline brothers in the international format, I think Spain would spank a number of the non-playoff teams. They have a ton of shooters around 3 all-star (maybe near all-star at this point of their careers) caliber NBA bigs. I think they would be a mid-seed eastern conference playoff team, maybe better.
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The difference in playing time as a unit is the main reason I think they'd get spanked by an NBA team.  I know the Spain guys have played together a decent amount but I don't think it's remotely close in terms of quantity and quality. If you flip the script and turn the international squad into an NBA team- complete with 7 straight months of practicing and playing together and in many cases several consecutive years of the same- it's a different argument.  Then you're just comparing rosters.

 
I think France would win against at least half of the bottom dwellers of the NBA as well. They have Batum, Parker, Diaw, King Joffery, Fourier, Nando de Colo,  and Gobert. That's 4 NBA starters 2 rotation guys and another who would be a rotation guy if he stuck around in the NBA.

 
Kev4029 said:
I think France would win against at least half of the bottom dwellers of the NBA as well. They have Batum, Parker, Diaw, King Joffery, Fourier, Nando de Colo,  and Gobert. That's 4 NBA starters 2 rotation guys and another who would be a rotation guy if he stuck around in the NBA.
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How dare you slight Kevin Seraphin like this.

Seriously, I've had that thought too- seems like they should fare far better than they usually do, at least when I've been paying attention. Tons of talent.

 
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TobiasFunke said:
The difference in playing time as a unit is the main reason I think they'd get spanked by an NBA team.  I know the Spain guys have played together a decent amount but I don't think it's remotely close in terms of quantity and quality. If you flip the script and turn the international squad into an NBA team- complete with 7 straight months of practicing and playing together and in many cases several consecutive years of the same- it's a different argument.  Then you're just comparing rosters.
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The core of that roster has played more games together than many NBA rosters. The Gasol brothers, Fernandez, Navarro (he's getting old, don't know if he plays anymore), Rodriguez, and Calderon have been together for 10 years when they beat the US in the FIBA world championships. 

 
Jayrod said:
LeBron is a hybrid PF playing SF.  He takes up space on the block more often and needs the lane open more than most SFs.

That should work well with a true stretch 4.  Bosh just basically "converted" himself into a stretch 4.
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And has 2 rings for it.

 
bananafish said:
The story goes that Jerry West threatened to resign if that became reality. Love Jerry.

In other breaking news, I'm think I'm LaFelling in Love with Joakim Noah to Golden State. Gold, Jerry, gold!
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Would they cut Varejao loose in that scenario? He's sort of Noah Lite.

 
Kev4029 said:
The core of that roster has played more games together than many NBA rosters. The Gasol brothers, Fernandez, Navarro (he's getting old, don't know if he plays anymore), Rodriguez, and Calderon have been together for 10 years when they beat the US in the FIBA world championships. 
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Yeah I guess. Just seems like playing time as a unit maybe wouldn't be nearly as meaningful in small stretches spread over many years and with different coaches.  But at the same time they presumably all grew up playing together or in similar systems, too. Who knows.

 
GOB said:
Yeah but he won those in spite of the glorified PF LeBron James.
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Lebron James played his absolute best basketball on that title run down here. Spo forced/demanded him to learn how to be an effective player in the block. It paid off.

 
bananafish said:
Yeah, I think some combination of him, Barbosa and Speights are all gone (they're all upcoming free-agents). Maybe Brandon Rush, too. It really depends on what the market is for their services which I'm assuming will be high (outside of Varejao) considering who they play for. Golden State actually has all it's key players under contract for at least another year except for Harrison Barnes, and it's debatable how key he really is. His problem is mostly a confidence thing, which is kind of unique in today's NBA. I hope they keep him but I'm not as confident as I once was that they do. It's absolutely imperative that he plays well in these next few games to cap an overall mediocre season.

I'm 50/50 on Festus Ezeli. If they pull off deal with Noah he's gone unless they find a suitor for Bogut and his $12M. I like Bogut (even love him at times), but he's so damn unreliable. I guess it's just his age/injuries catching up to him but he's only really efforting every third game or so at this point.

The guy I absolutely love is Steven Adams (my God he's a beast), but he's not going anywhere. Dude is only 22 and still on his rookie contract through '18. If I'm Kevin Durant he's one of the major reasons I stay outside of Westbrook.

Center is really the only position they need to re-tool but I doubt they'll be in the market for any of the other big free-agent names other than Noah. They just don't fit right in GS as the center needs to be able to pass in their offense and be a team-first guy. 

Barring Noah or the Durant pipe dream I think they stand pat. No shame in that.

I'd like to hear GPJ or any of the other homers comment on their younger guys Clark and McAdoo (or anyone else). I've been pleased with what I've seen and assume they'll be back but that's based on very limited minutes of observation. I know McAdoo played well in the D league.

Sorry for the diatribe on Golden State's free agency but it helped me organize my own thoughts just typing it out.
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I think they keep Ezeli and Barnes.  They need Ezeli as a long term back up plan. Barnes is to versatile defensively. They can fill out the roster with ring chasers like Noah and Matt Barnes. 

 
Da Guru said:
Isiah Thomas has 2 rings and retired at 33 and is not top 10. James may never win another title as a player but will still be a top 10 all time player.    In Miami James looked up to Wade and respected Riley.  In Cleveland James is Wade and Riley combined and put in any puppet HC that you want.  A role that James wanted but not sure he is really comfortable with regardless of his ability.
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I don't disagree on James being a top 10 player.  The only thing keeping him from consensus top 5 all time are the rings.

Whether you or I think this is right or not doesn't really matter.  When splitting hairs among the greatest ever.. the rings will decide.  Time will favor rings.  Add rings to Iasaiah.. he would be there,  Oscar, Stockton, Dirk, Nash, West, Robinson, Olajuwon, Erving, Barkley....... and on and on.  Add rings to them, take them - top 10.

 
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matuski said:
I don't disagree on James being a top 10 player.  The only thing keeping him from consensus top 5 all time are the rings.

Whether you or I think this is right or not doesn't really matter.  When splitting hairs among the greatest ever.. the rings will decide.  Time will favor rings.  Add rings to Iasaiah.. he would be there,  Oscar, Stockton, Dirk, Nash, West, Robinson, Olajuwon, Erving, Barkley....... and on and on.  Add rings to them, take them - top 10.
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Whoa, Big O isn't in your top 10?

 
everyone in my top 10 has as many (wilt, Hakeem) or more rings than Lebron. 

Magic

jordan

russell

wilt

duncan

shaq 

hakeem

bird

lebron

kareem 

(not really in order)

 
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Abraham said:
everyone in my top 10 has as many (wilt, Hakeem) or more rings than Lebron. 

Magic

jordan

russell

wilt

duncan

shaq 

hakeem

bird

lebron

kareem 

(not really in order)
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Rings and MVPs combined

jordan (11)

magic (8)

kareem (12)

wilt (6)

bird (6)

russell (16)

shaq (5)

hakeem (3)

duncan (7)

Lebron (6)

the next guys out to me are probably Oscar (2), west (1), and Kobe (6). 

 
bananafish said:
Who starts in place of Love? Jefferson? Frye? MOZGOV? I have no idea.
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Lebron going to the 4.  I assume Shump will start then?  

Personally, for every second Bogut is on the court, I'd want Lebron at the 4 and Frye at the 5.  I'd bring TT off the bench.

 
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