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2015 NBA Thread: I felt a great disturbance in the trolls, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. (1 Viewer)

tonydead said:
Haven't seen him take over a game for awhile. Especially a finals. Jordan won three more championships older than lebum is now. 
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Jordan is in his own category. The greatest single player to ever grace the hardwood. I don't understand the media's and for that matter fan's obsession to even bother comparing Lebron to Jordan. Yes I realize he was anointed the King at 18 years old.......but he is no Jordan. Best player on the planet still? Yep. But the media needs to talk about something I guess. It's just stupid though.

He never was nor was ever going to be Jordan. And we will never in our lifetime ever see a player reach Jordan's stature. The man is a one and only. I loved watching that guy play basketball.....even when he was losing for many years. Once Scottie and Phil came into the picture the rest was history. Pippen will be remembered as the greatest wing-man in NBA history (Maverick and Goose). Pippen was awesome in his own right too. And Love and Kyrie are no Wade and Bosh......that is self evident and on full display in this series. 

The heavy lifting has taken it's toll on Lebron. The man is human, older and wearing down here after 6 straight Finals. It's crazy. It is a hell of run he has had between Miami and now Cleveland.  I expect vintage Lebron (2012/13) to show up here tomorrow night and it would not shock me to see them win 2 straight at home and get this back to GS 2-2. Would not shock me at all. Kyrie is a talented player and has not shown up yet, and Love needs to sack up (but I don't think that will happen). They need to drive to the basket, get to the line, force the action in the paint and move the ball around. Lack of ball movement is killing them (as well as piss poor defense in game 2). Even though their defense was OK in game one....a lot of wide open looks were missed by GS (Curry and Thompson). 

It's not easy winning rings. It is brutal hard. So many things have to fall right for a team. Health, match-ups, some luck and did I mention health? In this series the match-up is not in Cleveland's favor at all. GS is two times the team they were in last years Finals.

 
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Todem said:
 Best player on the planet still? Yep.
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I think we're at a point where this one is officially up for debate. 

If you were a GM playing only for the 2016-2017 season, is he 1.1? I can see the argument for yes very easily, but for the first time in a while, the argument can be made for someone else too. 

 
fantasycurse42 said:
I think we're at a point where this one is officially up for debate. 

If you were a GM playing only for the 2016-2017 season, is he 1.1? I can see the argument for yes very easily, but for the first time in a while, the argument can be made for someone else too. 
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1.1 Curry

1.2 Durant

1.3  LeBron

1.4  Westbrook

 
Anyone interested in playing GM? Like 8 doods? We can all draft a team and then put it to a vote who has the best team? 

I know, I have way too much free time during the day :kicksrock:

 
Kev4029 said:
Boston Trades Bradley, Crowder and 16th and 23rd picks for Love and Thompson.

Denver Trades Gallo and the 7th Pick for Love.

The Suns trade Chandler, Knight, 13th and 18th picks for Thompson and Love.

The Jazz trade Favors, Rodney Hood and the 12th pick for Love.
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:goodposting:  

They won't lack for suitors for Love. I know the Suns would love to have him and would quickly part with Knight & pick(s) to make happen . I don't know of their interest in Thompson.

 
Kev4029 said:
Boston Trades Bradley, Crowder and 16th and 23rd picks for Love and Thompson.

Denver Trades Gallo and the 7th Pick for Love.

The Suns trade Chandler, Knight, 13th and 18th picks for Thompson and Love.

The Jazz trade Favors, Rodney Hood and the 12th pick for Love.
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For CLE fans' sakes, I hope you're right about the trade market for Love.  Because some of these seem like absolute steals based on how Love is perceived.  I would be very surprised if any of those proposed trades actually happen.

 
MAC_32 said:
Pardon me as I've skimmed through a lot of the hot taekery, but I haven't seen anyone mention that the Warriors are just a bad matchup for the Cavs.  The Cavs offense is simple, but effective against every team...but one.  Drive, if the defense collapses kick to the open man, make an extra pass if needed, bury the 3.  If the defense doesn't collapse then take it to the rim.  Look for opportunities in transition.  Once in rhythm it's highly entertaining basketball.  If they don't get into rhythm?  It's painful.  The role players aren't able to get in the flow of the game then LeBron and Kyrie default to their comfort zone, hero ball.  Against the Warriors, the spacing and transition opportunities this offense needs simply aren't there.  This is why Lue keeps preaching that the team needs to play faster, to create these opportunities.  A depleted and hobbled Cavs roster had things in doubt against this team last year until they went to small ball.  The Cavs have had no answer against this team since then.  What the Cavs do well does not work against this unit that just runs around and creates havoc on both sides of the floor.  Thompson is liability enough on offense, but he can at least move up and down the floor.  The Mozgov talk imho is crazy.  The last thing this team needs to do is slow this thing down anymore.  Can they keep it closer doing that?  Probably, see last year.  Will they win?  No, also see last year.  If they have any shot then they need to speed things up, but they need everyone to buy in for it to work and out in California they did not.
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You are crazy to think Cleveland needs to speed things up.

 
The narrative for two seasons has been that he is being used the wrong way and he and James need the ball in the same place.  Tons of teams will want a 27 year old guy who can go for 22/10 as a primary option. 

 
Peyton Marino said:
Didn't you just have another kid?

In any event, sure I'd do it, but only if timschokit plays too.
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I don't take him to work with me...

No Tim! This is for fun, not for annoying pointless commentary. I mean we'll have a lot of annoying pointless commentary, but not from Tim.

I want JoeT to take 1.1

Current list:

FC, PM

Room for six more, I'd create a new thread if we get the heads, not to clutter this one.

 
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Abraham said:
The narrative for two seasons has been that he is being used the wrong way and he and James need the ball in the same place.  Tons of teams will want a 27 year old guy who can go for 22/10 as a primary option. 
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I don't know, I've done alot of cringing when Love touches the ball when it's not a catch and shoot 3 pointer.  The ankle weights he plays with seem to be getting heavier and heavier.  

I think I agree with your second sentence.  He's going to have a market.

 
Kev4029 said:
Boston Trades Bradley, Crowder and 16th and 23rd picks for Love and Thompson.

Denver Trades Gallo and the 7th Pick for Love.

The Suns trade Chandler, Knight, 13th and 18th picks for Thompson and Love.

The Jazz trade Favors, Rodney Hood and the 12th pick for Love.
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This is way better then the crap I tried to post the other day, but I am not sure if I would even trade Favors straight up for Love. 

 
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Bruce Dickinson said:
For CLE fans' sakes, I hope you're right about the trade market for Love.  Because some of these seem like absolute steals based on how Love is perceived.  I would be very surprised if any of those proposed trades actually happen.
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I think plenty of teams would be willing to bet on a rebound from Love. You're acting like he's been a total train wreck the last couple seasons. He definitely hasn't worked out as anticipated, but there were a lot of teams chasing him hard a season ago before he resigned, I doubt much has changed since then.

 
tjnc09 said:
You are crazy to think Cleveland needs to speed things up.
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What do you suggest then?  The only other alternatives being discussed around here involve playing Mozgov over JR, Delly over Kyrie, and sending groupies down to the Ritz to felate Warriors players in the middle of the night.  One of those is great, but the other two are dumb.

 
msudaisy26 said:
This is way better then the crap I tried to post the other day, but I am not sure if I would even trade Favors straight up for Love. 
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Gobert and Favors are a bit redundant and it's hard to play two guys who can't shoot at the same time. They should be shopping him to find either a 4 who plays better next to Gobert or a PG.

 
fantasycurse42 said:
I think we're at a point where this one is officially up for debate. 

If you were a GM playing only for the 2016-2017 season, is he 1.1? I can see the argument for yes very easily, but for the first time in a while, the argument can be made for someone else too. 
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Agree with the bolded. But I still take Lebron as my centerpiece right now for a one season run. I don't even hesitate actually.

 
GOB said:
Slow your roll:

http://thunder.247sports.com/Bolt/Russell-Westbrook-mocks-ref-after-not-being-allowed-to-check-in-45220780
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Yeah...still some punk traits I don't like.....but this kid is lighting in a bottle and can take over games with the best of them. He still needs some maturity though...don't disagree. But he is the type of player that can win games all by himself. Can't teach that killer instinct. Leonard is amazing....but a different kind of player in that regard.

 
Kev4029 said:
I think plenty of teams would be willing to bet on a rebound from Love. You're acting like he's been a total train wreck the last couple seasons. He definitely hasn't worked out as anticipated, but there were a lot of teams chasing him hard a season ago before he resigned, I doubt much has changed since then.
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There's a big difference between using cap room to sign Love and giving up multiple assets to acquire him. 

After both of the cap spikes kick in, Love's AAV won't seem so high.  But that's an awful lot of guaranteed money and years for a guy a title contender is shoving out the door.   

 
Todem said:
Yeah...still some punk traits I don't like.....but this kid is lighting in a bottle and can take over games with the best of them. He still needs some maturity though...don't disagree. But he is the type of player that can win games all by himself. Can't teach that killer instinct. Leonard is amazing....but a different kind of player in that regard.
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Oh he is a savage for sure. 

My top 5 for 2016:

1. LeBron

2. Leonard

3. Curry

4. Durant

5. Klay

 
Bruce Dickinson said:
There's a big difference between using cap room to sign Love and giving up multiple assets to acquire him.

After both of the cap spikes kick in, Love's AAV won't seem so high.  But that's an awful lot of guaranteed money and years for a guy a title contender is shoving out the door.   
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Hey, if only Lebron had this advice 2 years ago.  :)

It's conceivable that this roster could have included both Love and Wiggins.

 
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Bruce Dickinson said:
There's a big difference between using cap room to sign Love and giving up multiple assets to acquire him. 

After both of the cap spikes kick in, Love's AAV won't seem so high.  But that's an awful lot of guaranteed money and years for a guy a title contender is shoving out the door.   
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I don't disagree but of the dozen or so teams that were pursuing him, they only need to find one that is still desperate to add some talent. Maybe I perceive him as having more value than he really has and those pretendy trades I proposed are too much, but I'm sure the Nuggets would be willing to trade Gallo or the 7th and the Celtics would be willing to trade a couple of their role players. I'm positive that somebody is willing to give up something meaningful for him.

 
If the Jazz could pull off that Love trade and sign Conley as a free agent, they could have a very interesting team for 2016.

 
Kev4029 said:
I don't disagree but of the dozen or so teams that were pursuing him, they only need to find one that is still desperate to add some talent. Maybe I perceive him as having more value than he really has and those pretendy trades I proposed are too much, but I'm sure the Nuggets would be willing to trade Gallo or the 7th and the Celtics would be willing to trade a couple of their role players. I'm positive that somebody is willing to give up something meaningful for him.
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I'm coming around on this.  Thinking about how the cap will spike and move Love's AAV from the top tier in the league to a more manageable figure, suddenly the length of his contract becomes an asset to a building/rebuilding team since he's locked up through the building process at a salary that will shrink relative to the cap over time.  

 
Is Lebron going to sign off on having to bring a rookie along into a key role? He doesn't seem to be too terribly interested in bringing in and bringing up a young talent who can't play right away. Rookies (KAT, Kristaps Porslingdicks and the yung god Hezonja excepted) typically aren't...good. Look at how infrequently a late-picking/contending/almost-contending team like the Spurs moves up for a pick (and the one time they did was a stroke of brilliance, fwiw). 

What Cleveland does seems like the second big domino in this year's free agency, behind Durant's decision. And I think that he probably stands pat.

 
Kev4029 said:
If the Jazz could pull off that Love trade and sign Conley as a free agent, they could have a very interesting team for 2016.
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Cleveland should probably be kicking the tires on Conley and shipping Irving out for some goodies if they think Conley could work. 

 
what we need is a hot take vendor around here they could walk up and down the aisle shouting hot tttaaaaaaaaaaaakkkkkkeeesssss heeah hot tttaaaaaaaaaaakkkkeeeeessss heeah and then they would probably overcharge you by about two times but hey people will come ray people will come take that to the bank brohans 

 
Gr00vus said:
Cleveland should probably be kicking the tires on Conley and shipping Irving out for some goodies if they think Conley could work. 
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You have to hold onto Irving, imo. He's going to get better and better.

He's supposed to be "the guy" in Lebron's dying days. I would actually love to see Lebron retire. He can't be happy to keep losing Finals. He's the kind of crybaby that would just flatout give up.

How many times is he gonna let Curry whip him?

 
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Eminence said:
You have to hold onto Irving, imo. He's going to get better and better.

He's supposed to be "the guy" in Lebron's dying days. I would actually love to see Lebron retire. He can't be happy to keep losing Finals. He's the kind of crybaby that would just flatout give up.

How many times is he gonna let Curry whip him?
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Shut it down, Cappy.

 
Good Posting Judge said:
Is Lebron going to sign off on having to bring a rookie along into a key role? He doesn't seem to be too terribly interested in bringing in and bringing up a young talent who can't play right away. Rookies (KAT, Kristaps Porslingdicks and the yung god Hezonja excepted) typically aren't...good. Look at how infrequently a late-picking/contending/almost-contending team like the Spurs moves up for a pick (and the one time they did was a stroke of brilliance, fwiw). 

What Cleveland does seems like the second big domino in this year's free agency, behind Durant's decision. And I think that he probably stands pat.
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Yeah, the picks floated in these proposed deals are probably only useful to Lebron if he can flip them right away for another win now asset. 

 
I just had a revelation that Leonard is a small forward version of Tim Duncan:  splendid on defense and efficient on offense, works hard and doesn't talk, plays spectacular, steady and almost boring.

I just hope he has a similar run, but I doubt Pop sticks along long enough to make it happen.

 
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Love has plenty of value.  It just wasn't to the Cavs.  Kyrie and LeBron are going to dominate the ball.  A 3rd player that can put up 20+ points and 10+ boards a night starts to fall by the wayside.  He's stuck shooting 3s so they can clear the lane for penetration.  If that's all they wanted him for there were plenty of cheaper, better 3 point shooters out there.

I wish the Wizards had pursued Love with a vengeance.  An extra post presence.  A good 3 shooter.  A rebounder.  And his defense is no worse than the other Wizards playing the 4. Instead Grunfeld puts all his hopes into Durant, then realizing midseason he isn't getting Durant panics and gives away picks to get Morris, who is a worse shooter than 95% of the people on this board.  There are similar teams that should have really made a run for Love.

 
Brunell4MVP said:
Love has plenty of value.  It just wasn't to the Cavs.  Kyrie and LeBron are going to dominate the ball.  A 3rd player that can put up 20+ points and 10+ boards a night starts to fall by the wayside.  He's stuck shooting 3s so they can clear the lane for penetration.  If that's all they wanted him for there were plenty of cheaper, better 3 point shooters out there.

I wish the Wizards had pursued Love with a vengeance.  An extra post presence.  A good 3 shooter.  A rebounder.  And his defense is no worse than the other Wizards playing the 4. Instead Grunfeld puts all his hopes into Durant, then realizing midseason he isn't getting Durant panics and gives away picks to get Morris, who is a worse shooter than 95% of the people on this board.  There are similar teams that should have really made a run for Love.
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Bosh did not....and won two titles. He knew how to adapt and change his game offensively (learning to become a three point shooter and a top flight pick and roll defender) and concede to Wade and Lebron when asked/needed. It worked for The Heat.

Kevin Love is no Chris Bosh.

 
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Not feeling any Love love. When was the last time a major piece on a championship team was a big negative on defense? Just not someone I'd want to commit max money to and count on. Pair him with Kyrie and it's tough for Cleveland. GS is just a better team.

 
Abraham said:
Pick any two.  The point is that Lebrons cast sucks so bad and the Warriors cast is so good that trading him and his worst teammate for any two warriors still doesn't make the cavs the favorites. 
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I think Lebron is the most skilled player in the game.  He's strong.  He's physical.  He plays D.  He wants to win.  

THAT BEING SAID...

If Lebron and Kyrie were traded for Curry and Thompson  ...  Curry and Thompson's new team would be the favorites.  Suddenly Love is better.  Suddenly Mozgov has a role.  Suddenly Channing is open for 3s.  Dellavedova has space to penetrate.  But put Lebron and Kyrie on the Warriors, and Iguodala stops trying.  Bogut gets frustrated standing there watching Irving dribble.  Barbosa can't get to the hoop.  

FACT:  Curry and Thompson are totally happy passing to Iguodala, Barnes, Barbosa, Bogut. Hell, they'll even let Speights shoot 3s without telling him to stop.  The Warriors supporting cast is fueled by the fact they can be individually successful playing with Curry and Thompson.   But if Lebron and Kyrie were on Speights teams and he missed a single shot, they'd ostracize him.  If Bogut got a rebound or blocked a shot they wouldn't even acknowledge the effort.  If I'm picking who I want to play with, it isn't the ball hogs.  Give me the guys that can shoot lights out but understand how their skills are made better by their teammates also being successful and how their skills make their teammates better.

Conversely the Cavs have paired Lebron with ball in hand alongside Kyrie with ball in hand.  It's 18 seconds of them playing around, and if they don't launch it, 6 seconds of their teammates trying to bail their a$$ out. Usually followed by 2 minutes of Lebron and Kyrie crying about their teammates.  It doesn't matter who the supporting cast is.

Warriors, Spurs, and Thunder all would beat CLE easily.

 
Craig_MiamiFL said:
And great example for teams to look at this summer when bidding on the likes of Biyombo/Ezeli etc...

Just some ridiculous #s being thrown around for these guys.said it previously but I think with bigs this offseason the most patient teams will benefit the most
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maybe you didn't see Biyombo's performance in the playoffs.

he makes Bill Russell look like Randy Breuer

 
scoobus said:
Not feeling any Love love. When was the last time a major piece on a championship team was a big negative on defense? Just not someone I'd want to commit max money to and count on. Pair him with Kyrie and it's tough for Cleveland. GS is just a better team.
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Kobe and Tony Parker come to mind.

 
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