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2015 NBA Thread: I felt a great disturbance in the trolls, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. (1 Viewer)

I forget who posted it earlier about the Lue vs Blatt debate and after that disaster I just threw up above I am too lazy to look, but I am not killing Lue. I just think it was dumb to fire a coach that just took you to the finals and looked like he was going to do it again.

 
msudaisy26 said:
I assuming James is staying, and by one site I looked at the cap is going to be roughly 92 million. In 2015 the cap was 70 million and the Cavs spent just shy of 106 million. This is crazy complicated so please just assume sign and trades if the bird rights and other stuff is wrong. So for 2016 I am going to keep the Cavs roughly 35 million over the cap and they already have 103 million in money going out. So just assuming 25 million to play with. 

Offer the max to Durant, 25 million, this depends on Lebron or Durant agreeing to play the 4. After Durant signs trade Kevin Love for draft picks, the Celtics were interested last year and I am sure you could get them to bite or someone. So add 26 million with Durant and a bump for Lerbon since he will want to be the highest paid player and minus 21.5 million for Love. So roughly 21 million left. Sign Etwaun Moore I am guessing about 6 million to get this done, he would be a great combo guard and floor spacer, sign Ian Mahimi, guessing it would take about 11 million a year to get him and I would start him over Thompson, and sign Darrell Arthur for defense and an energy guy off the bench. This is the dream scenario and none of these bench players can get their own shots, but with Kyrie, Durant and James I would assume one of them would be on the court at all times.

The more realistic scenario is take that 25 million and go get Jeremy Lin, Noah, and Kent Bazemore. Buyout or hope Smith opps out and make another run at it.

Please don't kill me if I did this is wrong, I don't know the cap at all and I was bored and thought this would be fun and by time I realized it sucked I was almost done.
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This isn't remotely how the cap works .

 
msudaisy26 said:
I assuming James is staying, and by one site I looked at the cap is going to be roughly 92 million. In 2015 the cap was 70 million and the Cavs spent just shy of 106 million. This is crazy complicated so please just assume sign and trades if the bird rights and other stuff is wrong. So for 2016 I am going to keep the Cavs roughly 35 million over the cap and they already have 103 million in money going out. So just assuming 25 million to play with. 

Offer the max to Durant, 25 million, this depends on Lebron or Durant agreeing to play the 4. After Durant signs trade Kevin Love for draft picks, the Celtics were interested last year and I am sure you could get them to bite or someone. So add 26 million with Durant and a bump for Lerbon since he will want to be the highest paid player and minus 21.5 million for Love. So roughly 21 million left. Sign Etwaun Moore I am guessing about 6 million to get this done, he would be a great combo guard and floor spacer, sign Ian Mahimi, guessing it would take about 11 million a year to get him and I would start him over Thompson, and sign Darrell Arthur for defense and an energy guy off the bench. This is the dream scenario and none of these bench players can get their own shots, but with Kyrie, Durant and James I would assume one of them would be on the court at all times.

The more realistic scenario is take that 25 million and go get Jeremy Lin, Noah, and Kent Bazemore. Buyout or hope Smith opps out and make another run at it.

Please don't kill me if I did this is wrong, I don't know the cap at all and I was bored and thought this would be fun and by time I realized it sucked I was almost done.
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They don't have $25M to spend. If you're over the cap you cannot sign free agents.  They are far, far over the cap for the foreseeable future. They may have a mid-level exception but that's it and that won't land anything more than a 7th/8th man. Only way they improve their roster is through trades.

 
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msudaisy26 said:
I forget who posted it earlier about the Lue vs Blatt debate and after that disaster I just threw up above I am too lazy to look, but I am not killing Lue. I just think it was dumb to fire a coach that just took you to the finals and looked like he was going to do it again.
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By all accounts he'd lost the locker room, whereas Lue seems to be universally loved/respected by the team. Which is important, too. But he seems overmatched here, and Blatt's decision last year to play Caveman Ball, while it ultimately didn't work, seemed like the best course of action.

Mannix has a source who's "betting" that if CLE doesn't pull it out somehow, Love's going to be the one to go. And if he goes, do you try to find another 4 or play Lebron there, or do something like Ariza/Beverly?

 
bananafish said:
On the ESPN podcast they talked about Love to NY for Carmelo and Kyrie to LAC for CPIII. It was so dumb I almost drove off the road, but then again maybe it's dumb enough to actually happen.

Carmella and CPIII are both old so maybe it's worth considering, but it seems very ESPNey.

They're getting the LeBron Dream Team together!
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Yeah, I think if LA was willing to deal Paul for Irving, it would've happened by now. Paul's older, but that trade punts/concedes the immediate future.

 
Good Posting Judge said:
By all accounts he'd lost the locker room, whereas Lue seems to be universally loved/respected by the team. Which is important, too. But he seems overmatched here, and Blatt's decision last year to play Caveman Ball, while it ultimately didn't work, seemed like the best course of action.

Mannix has a source who's "betting" that if CLE doesn't pull it out somehow, Love's going to be the one to go. And if he goes, do you try to find another 4 or play Lebron there, or do something like Ariza/Beverly?
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Hard to say, I have no idea how the cap works as you can tell by my poor attempt. My answer would be to trade Love and get as little back in salary as you could and go for Ryan Anderson, but I am not sure how plausible that is.

 
msudaisy26 said:
Hard to say, I have no idea how the cap works as you can tell by my poor attempt. My answer would be to trade Love and get as little back in salary as you could and go for Ryan Anderson, but I am not sure how plausible that is.
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If they want another stretch 4 they should trade a bag of peanuts for the perennially underrated Ilysova since nobody appears to want him. 

 
Ghost Rider said:
Please name one person who said that.  
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I don't remember off the top of my head, but there were plenty of people who were saying the Cavs would have won if they were healthy and I am sure some said sweep. I can't go back and check though because this thread only goes back to August.

 
Bruce Dickinson said:
Saying LeBron is more Pippen than Jordan = stupid even by Hot Sports Take standards, unlikely to be racist, possibly too much of an Easter Island fanboy
Saying LeBron will never be as good as Bird because Bird has more titles = imperfect understanding of where titles come from, possibly racist, more likely a grumpy old man
Saying LeBron will never be as good as Bird because Bird played the game the right way based on the fundamentals = imperfect understanding of where greatness comes from, probably saw Hoosiers too many times, suspiciously racist
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Steve Kerr disagrees:

"Phil Jackson used to call Scottie a 'sometimes shooter.' Sometimes they would go in, sometimes they wouldn't. That's how it is with LeBron. He's a great talent and a great player but you can see his flaws as a basketball player. He doesn't have an offensive game that he can rely on: no low-post game, no mid-range jump shot so when the game really gets tough he has a hard time finding easy baskets and getting himself going. That's what Michael did in his sleep so that's why the comparison is wrong."

 
msudaisy26 said:
I don't remember off the top of my head, but there were plenty of people who were saying the Cavs would have won if they were healthy and I am sure some said sweep. I can't go back and check though because this thread only goes back to August.
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So, in other words, none. 

 
Joe T said:
"The irony to me is that LeBron is not Michael. LeBron is actually Scottie"

-Steve Kerr
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That's ridiculous. Acting like lebron isn't nor hasn't been the key player on great teams is dumb.  So Scottie as your best player wins 2 titles and goes to the finals 6 times?

 
Abraham said:
That's ridiculous. Acting like lebron isn't nor hasn't been the key player on great teams is dumb.  So Scottie as your best player wins 2 titles and goes to the finals 6 times?
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He's quoting Kerr from five years ago.  Kerr has changed his view on LeBron significantly since then.  

Easy to also find Kerr quotes crushing a lot of the entry-level RINGZ!!!! thinking that permeates this thread.   

 
Here's what strikes me as interesting:

ill trade lebron and anyone else on the cavs roster for any two warriors you choose. Coaches stay the same. Who is the favorite to win a 7 game series?

exactly. 

 
"(James) is more of a point forward than a scoring guard," Kerr said. "What he's done the last couple years has kind of become a Super Scottie because he's capable of doing a lot more offensively than Scottie did in terms of taking over a game."

-Steve Kerr, 2013

In other words, comparing LeBron to Pippen isn't some sort of idiotic hot sports take. Many rational people do it.

In reality, LeBron's skill set aligns more closely to Pippen than Jordan. Is LeBron better than Pippen was? Absolutely. But he is closer to Pippen on the greatness scale than Jordan.

You can call people racists or idiots that have opinions that you disagree with all you want, but that just makes you sound petulant. Sorry.

 
Capella said:
The best thing about the Lebron haters here is that they completely ignore the fact the guy has two titles. 
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Had to team up with his buddies to get them.  They're more Wade's titles.  Refs engineered it because the league wanted a Lebron title.  Claimed he'd win like 5 titles in Miami so who cares about two.  Ray Allen saved him.  

 
Far from a capologist, but seems to me like some good two way high end role players, who move the ball, like Jeff Teague and Kent Bazemore would be good with LeBron. Would the Hawks want Kyrie? Is Kyrie perceived as more valuable than that?

Too bad there's no healthy Bosh anymore. 

 
Haven't seen him take over a game for awhile. Especially a finals. Jordan won three more championships older than lebum is now. 

 
A few things from a Lebron Hater:

1) Lebron is great, I doubt anyone disagrees - if they do, they can be discredited

2) Lebron is past his prime or at the twilight of it, while in the discussion for best player in the league, it isn't unquestioned anymore

3) If he didn't decide to call himself the king and the chosen one, maybe the criticism would've been less in his career

4) He shouldn't be playing GM

5) He seems to have problems with teammates more than the leader of a team should. Doesn't feel like he is the greatest leader

6) Def a sharp businessman

7) He's outside of my top 5 greatest as of now and inside my top 10, prob doesn't crack top 5 if he declines as I expect

8) I respect him coming back to Cleveland to try and win a title, shame he prob won't accomplish it. If he would've just stayed instead of bolting for Mia, maybe it would've happened.

 
Good Posting Judge said:
By all accounts he'd lost the locker room, whereas Lue seems to be universally loved/respected by the team. Which is important, too. But he seems overmatched here, and Blatt's decision last year to play Caveman Ball, while it ultimately didn't work, seemed like the best course of action.

Mannix has a source who's "betting" that if CLE doesn't pull it out somehow, Love's going to be the one to go. And if he goes, do you try to find another 4 or play Lebron there, or do something like Ariza/Beverly?
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I've been messing around with the Trade Machine trying to give you a better answer to your question about what CLE should do this summer... and I've concluded Kevin Love will be very hard to trade.  The combination of XXL price, XL length, and L value is just deadly.  I'd declare Love the least-tradeable contract in the league, but I think that honor actually goes to Tristan Thompson.

Getting out from under Love's contract seems to be the prudent thing to do.  As polarizing as he is as a player, he's got a lot more trade value than Thompson.  Love is who he is as a player, while Irving still has time to improve at both ends of the floor.     

 
& nothing would make me happier than getting rid of Melo for Love. Not that it changes much for the Knicks, but watching Melo & Lebron lose together... That's the stuff dreams are made of!

 
Bruce Dickinson said:
Saying LeBron is more Pippen than Jordan = stupid even by Hot Sports Take standards, unlikely to be racist, possibly too much of an Easter Island fanboy
Saying LeBron will never be as good as Bird because Bird has more titles = imperfect understanding of where titles come from, possibly racist, more likely a grumpy old man
Saying LeBron will never be as good as Bird because Bird played the game the right way based on the fundamentals = imperfect understanding of where greatness comes from, probably saw Hoosiers too many times, suspiciously racist
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Who has said any of that?

 
Capella said:
The best thing about the Lebron haters here is that they completely ignore the fact the guy has two titles. 
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Rather than ignoring it.. I'm thinking that is a great place to start. :thumbup:

Only winning 2 titles is a detriment to any argument that he belongs at the top of the NBA pantheon - sticks out like a sore thumb among guys who together average what.. 5 a piece?  

Losing 4 5 is another.  

 
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No. 16 said:
Who has said any of that?
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Check the Comments section of any article discussing ESPN's NBARank Small Forwards list from earlier this season.  No shortage of people upset that LeBron was ranked ahead of Larry Bird, some of the reasoning was more compelling than others. 

 
PlasmaDogPlasma said:
You going to play Curry and Kyrie together?
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I would do no such thing. Irving leads the 2nd unit.

SF would be a problem, but I can still run the Curry/Green PNR with Love on one side and Smith on the other. That creates a lot of the same problems that it does when GS does it. Meanwhile, New GS is heavy on wings and short on ball-handlers.

I get what you're saying, but I think a better way to show that the Cavs sans James are worse than the Warriors sans Curry is to replace both with an average player. GS wins that matchup pretty handily, I think.

 
matuski said:
Rather than ignoring it.. I'm thinking that is a great place to start. :thumbup:

Only winning 2 titles is a detriment to any argument that he belongs at the top of the NBA pantheon - sticks out like a sore thumb among guys who together average what.. 5 a piece?  

Losing 4 5 is another.  
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You're still in "RINGZ DOOD" mode. A team's best player is important, but players 2-8 in total are more important than player 1.

 
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