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2015 NBA Thread: I felt a great disturbance in the trolls, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Capella
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Joe T
Footballguy
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
Oh Christ, who cares. It's freakishly tall people chasing around a stupid ball.
Jayrod
Footballguy
BroncoFreak_2K3
sucker for Orange
Pretty much all wrong on Green. Total stud in HS and he was the heart and soul of MSU his Junior and Senior years. Had 3 career triple-doubles in college, 2 in the NCAA tourney (Big O and Magic the only other two with three). Was always a good defender in HS and college but has definitely improved since being in the NBA.
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
True dat. Among the many innovations Magic Johnson brought to the game, he was the king of throwing his hands up and yelling at the ref while running back on defense. And most of Magic's theatrics after getting called for a foul would be insta-technicals today.
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
BroncoFreak_2K3
sucker for Orange
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Todem
Footballguy
Golden State is just better than the Cav's......it's pretty simple. Lebron is still IMO the best all around player in the Association. I think any team (with fair certainty) other than GS and OKC, they can beat in The Finals.
Just give credit where credit is due. The Warriors are just a deeper and better team. Also they have a huge coaching advantage. Huge.
Just give credit where credit is due. The Warriors are just a deeper and better team. Also they have a huge coaching advantage. Huge.
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
High-profile players from high-profile schools don't slip under the radar.
There were legitimate questions about his back-to-basket offense, dribbling, and shooting off the dribble on offense, and had shown a lot of defensive weaknesses. He was a plus passer and good shooter off the pass, but he graded out as an average athlete who didn't have an obvious NBA position. There were strong intangible arguments for picking him late in the first or early in the second, but no one accused him of being a lottery talent.
Keep in mind in took a while for GSW to start playing him. It took three injuries to get him into the rotation. Then GSW dumped Jackson, and Kerr solved the "Green doesn't have an NBA position" problem by installing a quasi-positionless system.
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
Because he was seen as a "tweener" who wasn't terribly athletic? He also wasn't a great defender.
He has also worked his balls (sorry) off since getting into the league. I mean he's kind of nuts, for better and worse.
David Dodds
Administrator
I am pretty certain this Cavs team would have lost to the Spurs too. I am not sure why the Cavs are perceived to be this overwhelming underdog though. They were missing Love and Irving last year and now have those guys back. On paper, they should be able to match up with this team. It's not like Golden State has a roster full of #1 picks. They have a well-coached team and guys that play with a lot of heart.
I can't make any excuses for Green anymore. It's also the Warriors responsibility to get him under control especially when a suspension is imminent in the FINALS. Sadly, one of his "points" was when he tackled that Houston player with less than second left down a point in a meaningless game.I'm not sure how you can logically argue around Green dickpunch ---> flagrant foul, flagrant foul #4 ----> 1 game suspension.
Lebron got a tech too, but he hasn't spent the entire playoffs socking dudes in the dong.
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Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
OK I'm quitting this thread again.
mr. furley
Footballguy
also, a tweener in terms of size. not big enough for PF, not skilled enough with the ball for SF. more "basketball player" than "physical freak" which is what every team wants (hopefully we're going back to guys who know how to play basketball being coveted again).
Bobcat10
Footballguy
I think there are a couple of vacations in order. And one's not you.Have a nice vacation
Although, if the NBA is handing them out here, this could get interesting.James and Irving were useless in the 4th quarter of game 4 because they were exhausted. Everything fell apart from their defensive rebounding to their offense standing around with no movement. You aren't beating the Warriors defense with no player nor ball movement.
The depth of the Warriors bench and Kerr's ability to manage rest is such a challenge for their opponents. It's not just in game but also game to game. There are a few articles out there that detail how much emphasis the Warriors put in constantly monitoring the health and vitals of the Warriors (thanks Silicon Valley influence). I am convinced the Warriors sacrifice game 3 of their playoff series for the better of the marathon, not the sprint. Although it almost backfired vs. OKC. James and Irving played several minutes up 20+ in the 4th quarter of game 3 - I wonder how much of that came back to haunt them late in game 4.
But all of that wouldn't be possible without the quality of the players the Warriors can bring off the bench who buy in the system and aren't ones to complain about playing time. How many teams in the NBA would Iguodala start for in the NBA? You are right - the Warriors have a ton of #1 picks and some who are perfectly content coming off the bench like Livingston #4, Iguodala #9, and at times Bogut #1.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
If the Cavs do somehow manage to break serve here tonight I wonder what the dynamic will be between Green and the Warrior's fans. I wonder what his mindset would be like in a game 6. would he try to overcompensate and get in further trouble? Would the Cavs be baiting him?
No. 16
Footballguy
Yes and yes.
Draymond loves to pride himself on getting into other players' heads, but he let LBJ get into his.
It shouldn't matter ultimately with 3 games to close out, but if the Dubs do lose the series then I'd be mad as hell at him, but I'm sure Dray would be more pissed at himself.
Bull Dozier
Footballguy
I hope ABC gets cameras to wherever he is so we can be treated with live look ins and plenty of his flexing pose when the Warriors do something good.
No. 16
Footballguy
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sjslacker
Footballguy
Draymond absolutely deserves to get a flagrant and the suspension. He knew he had no margin of error to react like he did, regardless or not that the reaction was warranted. It's gonna kill him not to be playing tonight, hopefully he learns from the experience. He truly let his team down, he's gotta be smarter than that.
Hopefully the Warriors can still pull it out. I'm shocked the line is still GSW - 5.5. The Draymond at center lineups have been consistently beating the Cavs. Non Draymond center lineups have been getting killed. Curious to see how the Warriors adjust without Draymond's rim protection when they go small. Lebron should be able to feast in the paint.
Hopefully the Warriors can still pull it out. I'm shocked the line is still GSW - 5.5. The Draymond at center lineups have been consistently beating the Cavs. Non Draymond center lineups have been getting killed. Curious to see how the Warriors adjust without Draymond's rim protection when they go small. Lebron should be able to feast in the paint.
MAC_32
Footballguy
If LeBron tries to beat them himself then he will be playing right into what the Warriors want the Cavs to do. As crazy as this is to write, Love has a chance to be the deciding factor tonight. He gets a chance to re-write his narrative with Draymond out. Just camp out behind the 3 point line and wait for others to get him open. If he comes inside the arc for anything other than a rebound though...bench him, immediately.sjslacker said:
Jayrod
Footballguy
By that logic, neither do the W's 73 wins.
It gives us a look into something we are unsure about and a sample to work off of.
Kev4029
Footballguy
You mean to tell me that a game 5 months ago against an NBA bottom dweller has no effect on this game!?!
My opinion about using regular season stats to predict playoff outcomes should already be known around here.
It doesn't give us a sample of anything. They could have been 20-0 in games this year without Green and it doesn't change the fact that he may be the most important player for GS in THIS particular series vs the Cavaliers.
I'm not sure why else you wrote that can't be good about their chances tonight. Was my sarcasm meter off?
Jayrod
Footballguy
A team is the culmination of all of their experiences to date plus their current health and ability to execute. One game months ago doesn't mean a lot, but it is also more relevant than zero.
Ksquared
Footballguy
I am just a lurker normally, but listening to LBJ presser today and some of this threads comments I had to respond:
I have coached basketball most of my life, so my perspective may be a little different. For example, I spend more time watching the action away from the ball than on the ball. Because I missed the initial play (watching the players in the corner), I watched on my DVR the play multiple times to see what really happened.
Several things have become clear as this series has progressed and about this play.
1. The Cavaliers were clearly the more physical and "grabby" team throughout this series. Mostly away from the ball but it has been very clear all series so stop with "crying" about Cavs are not getting the calls.
2. I have been a supporter of Lebron through the years feeling he gets treated unfairly. Not after this series and especially after the 4th Qtr of game 4.
3. There should never be a comparison between MJ and Lebron ever again....whining about being called a "#####"....WWMJ What Would Michael Do? - certainly not whine about it. He would have let his play be all the response that would be necessary.
4. Lebron did the Jr Hi trick to put Green on the floor (if anyone looks at the replay prior to getting up off the floor) - LBJ stuck his left leg directly behind Greens right leg and arm bared him in the chest...dumping him on the floor.
5. Done with LBJ excuses - Claimed today to be taking the high road in his presser - what a joke....he purposely stepped directly over Green (which is about as bid of dis in basketball as being spit on) - claimed he was getting back into the play. That is not even close unless he was going to head across the court and double team the ball on the wing. He would have headed to the key area..which was not over Green.
6. He was called a ##### as I understand after he dumped Green and stepped over him, not before. So taking the high road is a joke.
7. Getting into it with Curry, claiming he was not fouling him trying to get open for the inbounds is unbelievable. Just watch the replay....unless hugging Curry around the waist like he was going dancing is good defense.
8. I am not willing to accept anymore the contact LBJ creates both on offense and defense - never getting any criticism for it.
Not to say Green should not have kept his cool, but that is easy for us to say when you are disrespected that blatantly on the court. Players do not walk over someone 30 feet from the basket. But LBJ presser statement over and over about taking the high road is the biggest joke I have ever heard. This event may end up defining LBJ legacy more than anything....there have been several of the old guard NBA guys already hammering James for "whining" about being called names.
I have coached basketball most of my life, so my perspective may be a little different. For example, I spend more time watching the action away from the ball than on the ball. Because I missed the initial play (watching the players in the corner), I watched on my DVR the play multiple times to see what really happened.
Several things have become clear as this series has progressed and about this play.
1. The Cavaliers were clearly the more physical and "grabby" team throughout this series. Mostly away from the ball but it has been very clear all series so stop with "crying" about Cavs are not getting the calls.
2. I have been a supporter of Lebron through the years feeling he gets treated unfairly. Not after this series and especially after the 4th Qtr of game 4.
3. There should never be a comparison between MJ and Lebron ever again....whining about being called a "#####"....WWMJ What Would Michael Do? - certainly not whine about it. He would have let his play be all the response that would be necessary.
4. Lebron did the Jr Hi trick to put Green on the floor (if anyone looks at the replay prior to getting up off the floor) - LBJ stuck his left leg directly behind Greens right leg and arm bared him in the chest...dumping him on the floor.
5. Done with LBJ excuses - Claimed today to be taking the high road in his presser - what a joke....he purposely stepped directly over Green (which is about as bid of dis in basketball as being spit on) - claimed he was getting back into the play. That is not even close unless he was going to head across the court and double team the ball on the wing. He would have headed to the key area..which was not over Green.
6. He was called a ##### as I understand after he dumped Green and stepped over him, not before. So taking the high road is a joke.
7. Getting into it with Curry, claiming he was not fouling him trying to get open for the inbounds is unbelievable. Just watch the replay....unless hugging Curry around the waist like he was going dancing is good defense.
8. I am not willing to accept anymore the contact LBJ creates both on offense and defense - never getting any criticism for it.
Not to say Green should not have kept his cool, but that is easy for us to say when you are disrespected that blatantly on the court. Players do not walk over someone 30 feet from the basket. But LBJ presser statement over and over about taking the high road is the biggest joke I have ever heard. This event may end up defining LBJ legacy more than anything....there have been several of the old guard NBA guys already hammering James for "whining" about being called names.
Jayrod
Footballguy
Game 4 is on NBATV right now. Don't watch the game, watch Green only. He does things specifically to combat James - a player the Nuggets have no one close to on their team.Oh, Ok.
With these kind of insights, you must be like an NBA GM or something, huh?
dschuler
Footballguy
There is an old betting wise tale a lot of sharks use in this situation.
When a star player misses NBA time, the role players and bench exhaust all energy reserves and manage to usually play better than what the public thinks. After one game though, the team is more exhausted (being a player down and expending all their energy reserves from the previous game), and plays how you would expect a team to play without one of their better players.
In this case, I think the Warriors role players will come out huge tonight at home. Harrison Barnes, Iggy, Livingston, Varejao, Barbosa.
GS by double digits tonight.
When a star player misses NBA time, the role players and bench exhaust all energy reserves and manage to usually play better than what the public thinks. After one game though, the team is more exhausted (being a player down and expending all their energy reserves from the previous game), and plays how you would expect a team to play without one of their better players.
In this case, I think the Warriors role players will come out huge tonight at home. Harrison Barnes, Iggy, Livingston, Varejao, Barbosa.
GS by double digits tonight.
BroncoFreak_2K3
sucker for Orange
Voulgaris calls his NBA model "Ewing" after the Ewing Theory that Simmons came up that a team improves when a certain star player leaves the team.
He has also complimented Green in ways that suggest he thinks he is one of the most important 5 NBA players in the NBA today (he may have actually said most important player but no way I can go back and find that specific tweet)
If there is one team that can overcome his loss, it is GS at home but life for them would have been so much easier with him playing tonight.
johnadams
Footballguy
Not posting the whole thing, but it's nice to see your perspective. Here's mine:
To me, this is about the refs as much as anything and I'm very disappointed that there is so much banter between the teams. Lebron took Green down. But he was very frustrated at the level of no-calls. Usually, I can't stand Van Gundy, but he rightly said, before this point, that it wasn't just refs allowing them to play, the refs weren't calling fouls that they should be. This was both ways as the Curry grabbing was even more out of hand than usual, but James was getting hammered by body fouls almost every time he went to the basket (sure, he had a few of his trademark elbow smashes, but overall, he wasn't getting any calls that he should have gotten either). The refs allowed the game to get to the point where players are going to take things into their own hands. I've played in games like this in the past where the refs let a lot go and eventually (and seemingly inevitably) something extra curricular happens. In Game 4, James lost it first and took down Green who was all over him on several occasions. Not defending James, but I understand his frustration. To me, it looks like Green is trying to get James off him which resulted in a sackbrush and rightly called James out for his bush league behavior. The double foul was appropriate.
As to the flagrant 1, I'm a Green fan, but you just can't have appendages flailing at opposing nethers, intentional or not, with any frequency. League had to give him a flagrant. Personally, during the game, I thought James and Green should have been assessed a double technical for taunting, James for the stepover and Green for the attempt to push AFTER the sackbrush.
Ultimately, this is avoidable with any semblance of proper officiating. I've played, coached, and refereed at fairly high levels and watching the refs was appalling who created the environment where players feel they have to police each other rather than the referees. Again, I don't condone what James did, but I understand.
As to the after effects, Warriors will miss Green a lot. But I suspect that the refs will be instructed to call a tighter game, which benefits the Warriors much more than the Cavs. I expect to see illegal screens, off the ball holding, and body fouls a lot in the first quarter. A cleaner game ultimately benefits shooters and Warriors have two of the best. Green is a huge loss though.
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