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2016-17 NBA Thread: Finals are over, please go away (1 Viewer)

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Right.  That was my main point, people like to regurgitate dumb phrases like 'held serve' as if every home team ends the series up 2-0

Maybe it's closer than the historical numbers indicate, but the Celtics have a serious advantage here, much larger than 'holding serve' would indicate

 
the moops said:
Problem with the "just post Oubre up" is the fact that he sucks at that. Not his fault either, I mean, he is a 6'7" small forward who probably hasn't posted anyone up since his freshman year of high school ball. Not to mention that the Wizards offense isn't even remotely designed around Kelly ####### Oubre posting up.

What they should do is run pick n roll with whoever IT is covering so they can get the switch that they want.
Oh I admit I don't know what I'm talking about, but I would like to see them do something other than plant Isaiah's man in the corner the whole time. 

 
Right.  That was my main point, people like to regurgitate dumb phrases like 'held serve' as if every home team ends the series up 2-0

Maybe it's closer than the historical numbers indicate, but the Celtics have a serious advantage here, much larger than 'holding serve' would indicate
Yeah.  I think Steadymoobin acknowledged that. He said they have a shot, and they do because the series is closely matched and the Wiz have three home games left.  They're currently +400, which is shorter odds than the Raptors (+650) even though they're only down 1-0.

Of course I don't feel like they have a shot, but that's because I'm a miserable pessimistic whiner.  The oddsmakers say they're still kinda in it.

 
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the moops said:
Problem with the "just post Oubre up" is the fact that he sucks at that. Not his fault either, I mean, he is a 6'7" small forward who probably hasn't posted anyone up since his freshman year of high school ball. Not to mention that the Wizards offense isn't even remotely designed around Kelly ####### Oubre posting up.

What they should do is run pick n roll with whoever IT is covering so they can get the switch that they want.
Oh I admit I don't know what I'm talking about, but I would like to see them do something other than plant Isaiah's man in the corner the whole time. 

 
Yeah.  I think Steadymoobin acknowledged that. He said they have a shot, and they do because the series is closely matched and the Wiz have three home games left.  They're currently +400, which is shorter odds than the Raptors (+650) even though they're only down 1-0.

Of course I don't feel like they have a shot, but that's because I'm a miserable pessimistic whiner.  The oddsmakers say they're still kinda in it.
Celts are -600, so 85% to win the series.  Those odds I found earlier say historically it's more like 95%.  Might be some money to be made there...  As you say though, you have to provide context, and maybe this one is closer than historical odds might indicate

Whether 85% or 95%, yes Wiz have a shot but not a great one...  

There are two big disadvantages they have - first is depth, second is coach.  I think the two will stack up as well as Brooks continues to lean on his stars to carry the team and they continue to show fatigue late in the games.  

 
the moops said:
Problem with the "just post Oubre up" is the fact that he sucks at that. Not his fault either, I mean, he is a 6'7" small forward who probably hasn't posted anyone up since his freshman year of high school ball. Not to mention that the Wizards offense isn't even remotely designed around Kelly ####### Oubre posting up.

What they should do is run pick n roll with whoever IT is covering so they can get the switch that they want.
Oubre doesn't need polished post moves for this to be effective.  He has ten inches on the guy guarding him.  He doesn't need Dream footwork, just a simple jump hook he probably learned in junior high.

All he really needs to be able to do is pass to the open guy if the double team comes.  Again, something that is taught in junior high (though, admittedly not every one picks up).

 
Eastern Conference

- Cavs toy with the Raptors, 3 minutes into game 1 and LeBron signals for a pass off the backboard?  That dunk was filthy - I think I shouted 'Cavs in 3!!!' when he put it down.  Like the additions of Ibaka and Tucker to make Toronto more suited for playoff success, but they're just not at Cleveland's level.  The evolution of offenses led by LeBron in 2017 is night and day better, even compared to the great Heat teams.  Now the defense on the other hand could use some serious improvement, but it's difficult to determine how much of that is skill and how much is effort?

- Picked Celtics over Wizards primarily because DC's bench is garbage and their defense comes and goes.  Boston has their own problems (primarily rebounding) but the roster is deep and Isaiah Thomas keeps going ham in 4th quarters.  Looked like the Wiz were going to tie the series 1-1 before IT took over.  His 53 points were the 7th most all-time in a playoff game?   :shock:   Not bad for a guy that had a tooth knocked out of his head in game 1. If Al Horford continues to play well they'll be okay against Washington, even if John Wall brings it every game.  Why they're not putting IT's man in pick n' rolls with Wall or Beal is beyond me.

Western Conference

- Really like the Jazz squad, but the Warrrrrrrrriors (come out and playyyyayyy) are just too damn good. Almost picked a 4-0 GSW sweep but went with the gentleman's sweep instead. Steph Curry put the Stifle Tower on skates last night and Draymond is absolutely ridiculous on defense right now.  He's like a modern day Scottie Pippen that can block shots with even more defensive positional flexibility.  Coming out of Michigan State I was completely in the tank for him as an NBA prospect (to ridiculous levels) but even I'm in shock at how good his game has become. If he can keep his head on straight he'll have a legitimate chance at making the Hall of Fame someday. 

- The Spurs/Rockets looked like the best series to me.  Styles make fights and this match-up looked tasty.  Kawhi Leonard may be a beast but he's never had over 7 assists in a game?  That's odd to me.  Only slight blemish to a player that is probably the 2nd best two-way player in the Association.  You knew he'd have to drag his teammates to a 7 game series win if the Spurs hoped to advance but the Rockets destroyed SA so bad in game 1 I'm not sure if the Spurs will push this to that final game at home scenario.  Unbelievable that the Rockets scored every point of their blowout win via 3, free throw, or 2pter inside the restricted zone. Craziest single-game shot chart I've ever seen.  Welcome to the way the game is now played.  If the Spurs don't win game 2 tonight, any chance they get swept?

 
I wish the Cavs would have gotten the 1 seed, I really feel like Washington would have given them a better series and then the Celtics would have in the conference finals too. If I were the Raptors I would do a major shake up before next year. Cliff you were right they should have just let Derozan walk and Powell could have been a cheap man's Derozan.

 
I kept a recording of my Tar Heels winning the national title on the DVR to watch after the Wiz and Caps choke away playoff games.  Only way I've been able to get any sleep this month.
I do the same thing after Timberwolves playoff games but with recordings of the Vikings winning it

 
Toronto had/has no choice but to pay derozan and this summer for lowrys 30s. No one better than derozan is signing with Toronto anytime soon. had the discussion last season/offseason. They lack the assets w/o derozan to trade for anyone better. Everyone's -- at least I'd hope -- known for years derozans a flawed player in the perfect situation. 

Both he and Lowry are good players. Not great ones. And that gets exposed in playoffs. Toronto's in a ####ty spot. Good team that's never going to get over the hump anytime soon.

 
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New year, same pathetic Eastern Conference.
as the sun sets on another regular season and a playoff basketball starts fans of the cappy bball forum can always count on the breath of fresh air and positive energy that is tjnc02349 rolling in gusting up from his rear end take that to the bank brohans 

 
When LeBron beats the warriors super team this year in the finals he is goat right?
I think we could actually have an intelligent debate at that point.  I would still say MJ, but he would have cemented himself as no lower than #2.  Right now, without another championship or MVP, I still have him behind Kareem.  And my list is the only one that matters.

 
I love the fact that Derozan offered up $100 cash money from his $100M+ contract to anyone that can stop Lebron.  I'm guessing LaVar has already reached out too.

 
I think we could actually have an intelligent debate at that point.  I would still say MJ, but he would have cemented himself as no lower than #2.  Right now, without another championship or MVP, I still have him behind Kareem.  And my list is the only one that matters.
Jordan never once had to go through any team like these warriors. Silly to just compare straight numbers of rings when Jordan just had to beat the Knicks and Jazz. 

 
I think we could actually have an intelligent debate at that point.  I would still say MJ, but he would have cemented himself as no lower than #2.  Right now, without another championship or MVP, I still have him behind Kareem.  And my list is the only one that matters.
What he did last year to the greatest regular season team with the MVP already makes it an intelligent conversation. 

 
Agree.  At least half the playoff teams is the East are weak enough that they could conceivably choke away a 3-1 lead in the NBA Finals even if they a unanimous MVP on their roster.
The regular season MVP in the NBA is one of the dumbest awards in sports.  I guess I'm not surprised anymore by the things you bring up.

 
Jordan never once had to go through any team like these warriors. Silly to just compare straight numbers of rings when Jordan just had to beat the Knicks and Jazz. 
Well, he also had to overcome Kevin Duckworth's impermeable defense too.

 
The regular season MVP in the NBA is one of the dumbest awards in sports.  I guess I'm not surprised anymore by the things you bring up.
I am happy to change future "unanimous MVP" references to "the player tjnc09 told us at the start of the 2015-16 season was so much better than LeBron James that it was ridiculous to even have the discussion" references if you'd like

 
lol you can't even post correctly.  Again, did he say that six months after winning a championship?  
Lol you can't even argue correctly. Again, your original post stated goats never ask for help. I then posted proof that Jordan asked for help. GG ez.

 
Dedfin said:
I wonder how great he thinks Princeton and Yale's football programs are.
Drives me crazy. Like Alabama and Oklahoma fans claiming titles from the 30s. If your sport wasn't completely integrated by then, gtfo. That title should be in the trash ? where it belongs. 

 
Drives me crazy. Like Alabama and Oklahoma fans claiming titles from the 30s. If your sport wasn't completely integrated by then, gtfo. That title should be in the trash ? where it belongs. 
If someone chirps about those championships, they should at least give some heavy qualifiers.  But they don't even do that, so yeah.

lol you can't even post correctly.  Again, did he say that six months after winning a championship?  
Dude, WTF is wrong with you?

 
Capella said:
Jordan never once had to go through any team like these warriors. Silly to just compare straight numbers of rings when Jordan just had to beat the Knicks and Jazz. 
And the Lakers and the Supersonics.  Jordan never lost to a weaker team like the 2011 Mavericks in the Finals and also had to beat the likes of the Celtics, Pistons & Magic just to get to the Finals.  How many easy trips has LeBron had to the Finals against a weak East while the Western Champs have to fend off 1-2 really good teams?  Jordan had some guys make big shots in non-elimination games, but it took the luckiest series of plays in NBA history for LeBron's Heat to even beat the Spurs in 2013 while playing with 3 HOFers and then they got smashed in 2014 in 5 games where "The Spurs outscored the Heat in the series by the largest average point differential (14.0) in Finals history."

Jordan's Bulls never fell victim to the kind of defeats in the playoffs that LeBron has.  I'd agree that the Warriors are better than any team Jordan faced, but LeBron has had more defeats with disappointing performances by him and his teams.  Most notably in 2011 & 2014.  I give LeBron tons of credit for the 2007 sweep when he was 22, but MJ was facing some historically good Celtics & Pistons teams in his early years and never got to sniff the Finals until he had everything in place. 

 
And the Lakers and the Supersonics.  Jordan never lost to a weaker team like the 2011 Mavericks in the Finals and also had to beat the likes of the Celtics, Pistons & Magic just to get to the Finals.  How many easy trips has LeBron had to the Finals against a weak East while the Western Champs have to fend off 1-2 really good teams?  Jordan had some guys make big shots in non-elimination games, but it took the luckiest series of plays in NBA history for LeBron's Heat to even beat the Spurs in 2013 while playing with 3 HOFers and then they got smashed in 2014 in 5 games where "The Spurs outscored the Heat in the series by the largest average point differential (14.0) in Finals history."

Jordan's Bulls never fell victim to the kind of defeats in the playoffs that LeBron has.  I'd agree that the Warriors are better than any team Jordan faced, but LeBron has had more defeats with disappointing performances by him and his teams.  Most notably in 2011 & 2014.  I give LeBron tons of credit for the 2007 sweep when he was 22, but MJ was facing some historically good Celtics & Pistons teams in his early years and never got to sniff the Finals until he had everything in place. 
If spur's were the better team in 2013 they would have won OT in game 6 at home or game 7. Losing in the first round is worse than losing in the finals also.

 
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I think people just need to enjoy the greatness while you can right now, figure it all out later.  I didn't with Jordan, but he was really good at taking out my team, and by the end he had my respect as a player.  That said, I'm pretty confident saying if Jordan played a team like the Spurs 3 times in the Finals like Lebron has (or the Warriors twice), he would not have come out 3-0 in those series (let alone 5-0).  

 
I think people just need to enjoy the greatness while you can right now, figure it all out later.  I didn't with Jordan, but he was really good at taking out my team, and by the end he had my respect as a player.  That said, I'm pretty confident saying if Jordan played a team like the Spurs 3 times in the Finals like Lebron has (or the Warriors twice), he would not have come out 3-0 in those series (let alone 5-0).  
If Jordan had a weak Eastern conference like LeBron he would have went to 10 straight finals. It works both ways and is dumb to argue either side and try to compare Era's. 

 
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