2016-17 NBA Thread: Finals are over, please go away (1 Viewer)

[trader jake]

Those two are in the top 5 worst contracts from this year.

In no particular order:

Deng, Mozgov, Biyombo, Turner and Noah.

Honourable mentions to Anderson, Parsons, Crabbe and Howard. 

Crabbe may have gotten paid filthy amounts, but he has an absolutely pure shot.  Was kind of intrigued to see how he would do in Brooklyn with all the shots he could heave.  If he continues to work on his all-around game, he could really surprise some that are now questioning him.  If Portland finds a CJ McCollum deal that makes sense we may even see it this year. 

I agree, his play isn't the problem. I even kind of liked the trade at the time, but that move combined with the subsequent moves made no sense. In the offseason they either should have gone into full re-build and traded everything they could other than Gordon, Hezonja and their first rounder, or try to build some shooting around what they already had to win more now. What they did instead was make a ####ty team that wasn't developing its two biggest assets properly.

Ibaka's game has gone downhill the last few years.  His rebounding, ability to block shots, get to the free throw line, and even dunks are all down.  He's also gotten too accustomed to standing outside on offense.  His diminishing game and the grey in his facial hair seems a more accurate gauge of his actual age than that number in his bio.  It was a bad trade when the Magic made it and it makes even less sense now.

Gordon not playing the four is a travesty.  It's almost as painful as watching the Knicks do everything but put Porzingis at the 5 and build around his developing game.

3 in a row is officially a streak right?? #TrustTheProcess

6-1 in the last 7 games Embiid has played in.  He absolutely destroyed the Bucks in the 2nd half today.  Can't wait to watch him and Simmons on the court together.

 

[On The Rocks]

If you're the Detroit Pistons, whats it going to take for the Celtics to take Andre Drummond off your hands?

 

[Cliff Clavin]

If you're the Detroit Pistons, whats it going to take for the Celtics to take Andre Drummond off your hands?

Seems like an odd pairing with Horford. 

 

[Frostillicus]

"Only one rookie has EVER scored more points per minute than Joel Embiid is scoring this season" - link

Your mom scores way more per minute.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

I wonder who owns it

Same team that owns the Kings (unprotected)  first-round pick in 2019.

*Cousins is a UFA in 2018. 

 

[BassNBrew]

Can someone explain the 28 minute restriction and every other night off to me?  I might need to share this with my boss.

 

[BassNBrew]

Pretty awesome that they put arguably the two best teams in NBA on national tv for MLK day. Kudos Silver.

Too bad one of them took the day off.

 

[Insein]

Can someone explain the 28 minute restriction and every other night off to me?  I might need to share this with my boss.

When you're 7'2", your career is basketball and you just missed 2 years for a foot injury, they may want to ease you back into the game instead of throwing you out there 48 mins every night. Especially when they don't plan on making a run this season.

 

[Capella]

Can someone explain the 28 minute restriction and every other night off to me?  I might need to share this with my boss.

Do you possess an extremely rare skill set that 30 teams would be willing to pay millions of dollars for? Or are you just another guy in another office? 

 

[TobiasFunke]

Do you possess an extremely rare skill set that 30 teams would be willing to pay millions of dollars for? Or are you just another guy in another office? 

In addition to what you pointed out, the other stupid thing about this common line of hot takery is the idea that basketball players aren't "working" unless they're on the court during a game, like other people don't count meetings and prep work and business travel and even sitting around at the office daydreaming as "work."

 

[Insein]

I do hope the league assigns a Collangelo to the Lakers when they start the tank later in the season. Got to uphold the integrity of the league... And keep them out of the bottom 3.

 

[BassNBrew]

In addition to what you pointed out, the other stupid thing about this common line of hot takery is the idea that basketball players aren't "working" unless they're on the court during a game, like other people don't count meetings and prep work and business travel and even sitting around at the office daydreaming as "work."

I circle back around later, but this comment is pertinent to something I was thinking about this weekend.  How do these guys get better with the insane schedule they keep?  Amazing how different the setup is from soccer or football.

 

[BassNBrew]

OK, some funny comments here.  Again, why a firm 28 minutes?  Let's assume that's the optimal amount, who made this calculation and how did they reach it?  This kind of goes against the gain of periodization that's used in other sports to prevent over training.

 

[Jayrod]

OK, some funny comments here.  Again, why a firm 28 minutes?  Let's assume that's the optimal amount, who made this calculation and how did they reach it?  This kind of goes against the gain of periodization that's used in other sports to prevent over training.

Your mom goes against the gain of periodization.

 

[TobiasFunke]

I circle back around later, but this comment is pertinent to something I was thinking about this weekend.  How do these guys get better with the insane schedule they keep?  Amazing how different the setup is from soccer or football.

Regular season games aren't necessarily the final product they are considered to be in football. Coaches experiment with lineup combinations and substitution patterns to see what works, give run to scrubs far more readily late in games that aren't that close, etc. There's also a training camp and a way-too-long preseason, shootarounds before every game, and most players these days work out during the offseason for all but a couple weeks.

 

[Sammy3469]

OK, some funny comments here.  Again, why a firm 28 minutes?  Let's assume that's the optimal amount, who made this calculation and how did they reach it?  This kind of goes against the gain of periodization that's used in other sports to prevent over training.

Enjoy:

http://www.sloansportsconference.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/1590-Preventing-in-game-injuries-for-NBA-players.pdf

Real NBA teams have much more established research but in general big strong heavy guys that run very fast and far get injured a lot more frequently.

 

[Gr00vus]

 the Lakers when they start the tank later in the season

 

[BassNBrew]

Enjoy:

http://www.sloansportsconference.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/1590-Preventing-in-game-injuries-for-NBA-players.pdf

Real NBA teams have much more established research but in general big strong heavy guys that run very fast and far get injured a lot more frequently.

Thanks, great read.  Pretty much confirms that there's probably not much science behind the firm 28 minute limit and that 32 / 24 would be just as effective.  Interesting to note they believe back to back games are not a significant cause for injury, rather cumulative workload.  Based on this study, if I were managing Embid and wanted to limit his work load, I would just play him only at home games (if interested in revenue / fan experience) or just play him against sub .500 teams (if interested in maximizing wins).

 

[Sammy3469]

Thanks, great read.  Pretty much confirms that there's probably not much science behind the firm 28 minute limit and that 32 / 24 would be just as effective.  Interesting to note they believe back to back games are not a significant cause for injury, rather cumulative workload.  Based on this study, if I were managing Embid and wanted to limit his work load, I would just play him only at home games (if interested in revenue / fan experience) or just play him against sub .500 teams (if interested in maximizing wins).

I actually believe teams have worked some of this out and that they've figured out injuries go up once fatigued and reaching fatigue isn't linear (i.e you can go from non-fatigued to fatigued pretty damn quickly especially if you are sprinting or putting a lot of pressure on your joints).  Basically you could be "fine" at minute 24, but really increase your risk of injury at minute 30.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

paul out 6-8 weeks.  Sorry Clips.  Maybe hanging in the 6/7 seed will be ok, though, stay away from 4/5.

 

[DallasDMac]

Minn-SAS with FIFTY-TWO free throws in the first half. Great continuity to the game! NBA, it's FANTASTIZZZZzzzzz..... 

 

[Good Posting Judge]

paul out 6-8 weeks.  

Good. 

 

[Insein]

Has there ever been an NBA finals 3 peat on the matchup? I know Bulls and Jazz had a back to back. Maybe back in the day with less teams but this feels like an inevitable showdown for the rubber match series between GS and Cleveland.

Just looked at the list of matchups. There's been a lot of repeat matchups but never a 3 peat matchup.  Interestingly there's been 8 times where the team that lost won the following year in the repeat matchup.

 

[Kev4029]

Not that anybody else gives a ####, but Nikola Jokic is out playing every other big man in the NBA right now, save for maybe Davis and Cousins. His play over the first half of the year has been spectacular (Top ORtg in the league, 10th in WS/48, 13th in PER) but since he has been starting at center this year he is other worldly. He is averaging 19.4/9.4/5.2 in less than 28 MPG (25.3/12.3/6.8 per 36) with a TS% of .706 through the last 14 games.

He'll likely always leave something to be desired defensively because he is a below average athlete and slightly short for the position, but he is already doing everything offensively at an elite level and he is still only 21.

 

[Insein]

Not that anybody else gives a ####, but Nikola Jokic is out playing every other big man in the NBA right now, save for maybe Davis and Cousins. His play over the first half of the year has been spectacular (Top ORtg in the league, 10th in WS/48, 13th in PER) but since he has been starting at center this year he is other worldly. He is averaging 19.4/9.4/5.2 in less than 28 MPG (25.3/12.3/6.8 per 36) with a TS% of .706 through the last 14 games.

He'll likely always leave something to be desired defensively because he is a below average athlete and slightly short for the position, but he is already doing everything offensively at an elite level and he is still only 21.

Pretty good. Embiid in his last 14 (coincidentally the Denver game), 18.5ppg, 7.5rbg, 1.5apg, 2.5blk, in 23 mins average.

Some good young big men out there all of a sudden.

 

[Kev4029]

Pretty good. Embiid in his last 14 (coincidentally the Denver game), 18.5ppg, 7.5rbg, 1.5apg, 2.5blk, in 23 mins average.

Some good young big men out there all of a sudden.

Guys under 25:

Gobert (24)
Turner (20)
KAT (21)
Adams (23)
Jokic (21)
Davis (23)
Porzingas (21)
Giannis (22) - Included because he's 7 feet tall.

There is a big lack of especially promising young PGs and there doesn't seem to be an abundance of wing talent either.

 

[the moops]

Guys under 25:

Gobert (24)
Turner (20)
KAT (21)
Adams (23)
Jokic (21)
Davis (23)
Porzingas (21)
Giannis (22) - Included because he's 7 feet tall.

There is a big lack of especially promising young PGs and there doesn't seem to be an abundance of wing talent either.

Agree on PG, but not so much on wing talent under the age of 25 - Beal, Giannis, Parker, Porter, Turner, Barnes, Oladipo, Booker, Lavine, Russell, Wiggins, Hood

Probably several I missed out on too

 

[Poke_4_Life]

Thunder @ GSW tonight...  should be all kinds of fun, considering the one (kinda) weak spot on GSW is interior and Adams is out due to concussion protocol.

If Thunder weren't off until next Monday I'd advocate pulling a Pop and resting Westbrook tonight.

 

[Capella]

Guys under 25:

Gobert (24)
Turner (20)
KAT (21)
Adams (23)
Jokic (21)
Davis (23)
Porzingas (21)
Giannis (22) - Included because he's 7 feet tall.

There is a big lack of especially promising young PGs and there doesn't seem to be an abundance of wing talent either.

Don't forget the Biz

:eyeroll:

 

[rodg12]

I actually believe teams have worked some of this out and that they've figured out injuries go up once fatigued and reaching fatigue isn't linear (i.e you can go from non-fatigued to fatigued pretty damn quickly especially if you are sprinting or putting a lot of pressure on your joints).  Basically you could be "fine" at minute 24, but really increase your risk of injury at minute 30.

Good reads here and here from about how the Warriors use technology and daily questionnaires to monitor players during practice to look for signs of fatigue or injury.  I'm sure other teams have started to do this as well since it's a copycat league and the Warriors have had so much success.  All teams have the SportsVu systems in place how.

 

[Moe.]

Thunder @ GSW tonight...  should be all kinds of fun, considering the one (kinda) weak spot on GSW is interior and Adams is out due to concussion protocol.

If Thunder weren't off until next Monday I'd advocate pulling a Pop and resting Westbrook tonight.

Fun? It's going to be a shellacking. 

 

[Long Ball Larry]

Fun? It's going to be a shellacking. 

i think he was being sarcastic.

 

[rodg12]

Agree on PG, but not so much on wing talent under the age of 25 - Beal, Giannis, Parker, Porter, Turner, Barnes, Oladipo, Booker, Lavine, Russell, Wiggins, Hood

Probably several I missed out on too

Turner?

Do Not Google (Evan Fournier) probably deserves a mention.  Malcom Brogdon has been damn good this year.  Brandon Ingram has shown flashes.  Then there are guys like MKG and KCP.

 

[rodg12]

New take on the 'build a team to beat the superteam' that we did before.  Only this time, CLE and GS are combined.  

https://twitter.com/JoshEberley/status/821813259942494211

 

[Moe.]

i think he was being sarcastic.

Oh yeah. The first game was entertaining for the first quarter, maybe the Thunder will hang around a bit longer get tonight. I would advise Jerami Grant not to stare anyone down if he gets a dunk early in the game. 

 

[TobiasFunke]

New take on the 'build a team to beat the superteam' that we did before.  Only this time, CLE and GS are combined.  

https://twitter.com/JoshEberley/status/821813259942494211

This seems unpossible, no? The Cav/Warriors starting five would be three $6 players and two $5 players based on how he seems to be classifying the talent, with a $5 and a $4 player coming off the bench.  

So you're being asked to build a ten man team with a $30 cap to beat a team that's already at $37 on its first seven guys plus Iggy, Korver and Tristan Thompson. Not gonna happen.

Honestly a more interesting question would be trying to beat that team with an unlimited budget.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

This seems unpossible, no? The Cav/Warriors starting five would be three $6 players and two $5 players based on how he seems to be classifying the talent, with a $5 and a $4 player coming off the bench.  

So you're being asked to build a ten man team with a $30 cap to beat a team that's already at $37 on its first seven guys plus Iggy, Korver and Tristan Thompson. Not gonna happen.

Honestly a more interesting question would be trying to beat that team with an unlimited budget.

PG: Lowry Edit: Somehow completely forgot about Westbrook.

SG: Butler

SF: Giannis

PF: Davis

C: Cousins

 

[Sammy3469]

This seems unpossible, no? The Cav/Warriors starting five would be three $6 players and two $5 players based on how he seems to be classifying the talent, with a $5 and a $4 player coming off the bench.  

So you're being asked to build a ten man team with a $30 cap to beat a team that's already at $37 on its first seven guys plus Iggy, Korver and Tristan Thompson. Not gonna happen.

Honestly a more interesting question would be trying to beat that team with an unlimited budget.

Yeah, the only thing that would even come anywhere close would be something like Lowry, Giannis, Kawhi, Jabari, Gobert and pieces.  That gets you to $30.  It's basically $25 for your starters.  SG turns out to be the weak link in any of these lineups.

I do think you need Kawhi and one of Giannis or Davis.  From there you can take Westbrook and one of Embiid/Jokic/Prozingis or the Lowry/Gobert route (at a minimum you'd need a PG with some defensive ability).  I'm pretty sure the only thing that makes any sense from the $3 guys is Parker and hope he can stay in front of Klay.   

 

[rodg12]

This seems unpossible, no? The Cav/Warriors starting five would be three $6 players and two $5 players based on how he seems to be classifying the talent, with a $5 and a $4 player coming off the bench.  

So you're being asked to build a ten man team with a $30 cap to beat a team that's already at $37 on its first seven guys plus Iggy, Korver and Tristan Thompson. Not gonna happen.

Honestly a more interesting question would be trying to beat that team with an unlimited budget.

Totally agree.  Seems impossible with a $30 cap since GSW-CLE has ~$40.  Probably make it better just by bumping the cap to $40.  With $40, I'm going:

Harden - $6

Giannis - 6

Kawhi - $6

Gobert - $5

Conley - $4

PG13 - $4

Turner - $3

Booker - $2

Bradley - $2

Adams - $2

 

[TobiasFunke]

PG: Lowry Edit: Somehow completely forgot about Westbrook.

SG: Butler

SF: Giannis

PF: Davis

C: Cousins

I think you need Kawhi in there somehow to annoy the #### out of LeBron.

 

[Sammy3469]

PG: Lowry Edit: Somehow completely forgot about Westbrook.

SG: Butler

SF: Giannis

PF: Davis

C: Cousins

I think in any of these you'd need Kawhi to guard LeBron and Giannis to attempt to guard Durant.  I also don't think Cousins has any business being here since he can't guard anyone.  Whether that means taking Davis as the de facto C or putting in a real rim protector, I don't know, but that position is guarding Green, so they'd have to be somewhat mobile.  

 

[Kev4029]

New take on the 'build a team to beat the superteam' that we did before.  Only this time, CLE and GS are combined.  

https://twitter.com/JoshEberley/status/821813259942494211

I'm trying to figure this out... So far, I'm sure that Chris Paul and Danny Green are on the team and either Cousins or Davis.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

I think you need Kawhi in there somehow to annoy the #### out of LeBron.

Butler/Giannis would do a good job plus the switching to two vastly different body types would be annoying.

I think in any of these you'd need Kawhi to guard LeBron and Giannis to attempt to guard Durant.  I also don't think Cousins has any business being here since he can't guard anyone.  Whether that means taking Davis as the de facto C or putting in a real rim protector, I don't know, but that position is guarding Green, so they'd have to be somewhat mobile.  

Who is going to guard Cousins and Davis? Don't play GS's game. Beat the hell out of them inside.

Kawhi could easily be subbed in for Butler and I wouldn't argue.

 

[scoobus]

Give me a starting lineup of:

A. Bradley

Butler

Kawhi

Anteater

Davis

All good defenders with switching capabilities, offensively should be tough to defend as well. That's $25, need to find maybe 3 good players with the remaining $5, not sure anyone goes 10 deep in the playoffs.

 

[scoobus]

I change my mind, George instead of Butler, $6 for the bench.

 

[thecatch]

Turner?

Do Not Google (Evan Fournier) probably deserves a mention.  Malcom Brogdon has been damn good this year.  Brandon Ingram has shown flashes.  Then there are guys like MKG and KCP.

Considering the demand for wings is much higher than that for bigs, that list isnt all that impressive. It's tough for a lot of teams to get 48 mins of competent wing play from both the 2 and 3 positions (plus some minutes from a lineup with a small ball 4). 

 

[thecatch]

Not that anybody else gives a ####, but Nikola Jokic is out playing every other big man in the NBA right now, save for maybe Davis and Cousins. His play over the first half of the year has been spectacular (Top ORtg in the league, 10th in WS/48, 13th in PER) but since he has been starting at center this year he is other worldly. He is averaging 19.4/9.4/5.2 in less than 28 MPG (25.3/12.3/6.8 per 36) with a TS% of .706 through the last 14 games.

He'll likely always leave something to be desired defensively because he is a below average athlete and slightly short for the position, but he is already doing everything offensively at an elite level and he is still only 21.

The insane amount of time I've spent watching the Wizards and Kings makes me very sympathetic to the good players who don't get any love because they play on crappy teams. My submission would be Garrett Temple this year as a surprisingly legit 3&D wing. He's probably among the top defenders at the shooting guard position and shooting 38% from downtown. 

 

[Insein]

Sixers by 4 over the Raptors with 30 seconds left. Get

 

[Insein]

Wooooooo!!!

 

[BigSteelThrill]

[SIZE=24pt]Trust the process!!! [/SIZE] [SIZE=36pt]?[/SIZE]