Bobcat10
Footballguy
Gotta protect top 4 at least, maybe top 5, always. Should be part of the GM101 course. Hilarious if this happens.
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2016-17 NBA Thread: Finals are over, please go away (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Capella
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Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
Maybe they bring Kobe out of retirement to ensure they lose out.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
I think my favorite part is that Pop benched his guys in the fourth quarter. Move the pick East, delay the Lakers rebuild for a year ... 4D chess.
Vanilla Guerrilla
Footballguy
I met one that was okay. That was 25 years ago though.It's a well known fact that all Knicks fans are in fact a-holes.
SWC
Bromigo
maybe they just reallize that he was good but that the orlando organization is so bad that he needed to go somewhere else to actually be developed by noncraptaculaar coaches and now that happened bam like my main man the jackson five and groot said i want you back take that to the bank bromigos
Capella
Footballguy
Is Tobias Harris really good? 16 ppg/5 boards/1.5 assists. He's useful and the magic got zilch for him but he's not really any type of game-changer.
The one that really bothers me is Oladipo. People act like he's a young dwade and he just sucks.
The one that really bothers me is Oladipo. People act like he's a young dwade and he just sucks.
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Kev4029
Footballguy
That is why I was somewhat of a defender of the Ibaka trade. Oladipo was a nice player when he was on a rookie contract but he's now making over $20 million a year. Even with the new inflated salary cap, I don't want to pay somebody who should be no more than the fifth best starter on a good team that kind of money.
rodg12
Footballguy
Their line-up for closing time and much of the second half last night was...
Tyler Ennis, Nwaba, MWP, Thomas Robinson, Tarik Black
What more could the Lakers have done here?!
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
Apparently Ben Simmons has grown 2 inches this year. Pretty nifty.
Kev4029
Footballguy
Should be good news for his broken foot that is a known career killer for 7 footers.
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
Lakers win streak up to 3. 
Turning it on at the right time of year.
Turning it on at the right time of year.
Capella
Footballguy
The Suns even won tonight too. The Lakers simply will not be denied.Lakers win streak up to 3.
Turning it on at the right time of year.
Jules Winnfield
Footballguy
So, again I say that I don't know NBA that much, the Wolves can write of Pekovic after this year so where do they go for a center?
All my buddies, that know something of the NBA, say Muhammad will not be with the team next year as they will trade him. Are they right?
I think Rubio is pretty good. Is he?
If the FBG guys were GM of the Wolves, what would you do for this team in the off season?
Thanks guys!
All my buddies, that know something of the NBA, say Muhammad will not be with the team next year as they will trade him. Are they right?
I think Rubio is pretty good. Is he?
If the FBG guys were GM of the Wolves, what would you do for this team in the off season?
Thanks guys!
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
Jules Winnfield
Footballguy
Wait a second, is that meant for me?
I really don't know much about the NBA so that's why am asking
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Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
No, that's just for the Lakers franchise.
Dieng is signed long-term, so I think your Wolves frontcourt is gonna be Towns/Dieng for the foreseeable future.
The Wolves dudes can prob. answer this better than I can, but 3 point shooting is obviously a glaring weakness. LaVine helps with that, but I don't think they've really gotten any worse with him out. Shopping him would be a bold, possibly interesting move.
the moops
Footballguy
KAT
Muhammad kinda sucks
Rubio is pretty good
Fire Thibs. Trade Lavine/Rubio for a vet
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
Wolves need Josh Jackson or a hard-nosed 3&D guy to connect the dots. Kris Dunn was supposed to be their Marcus Smart guy pushing Rubio out at the point, but Dunn has neither the ballsense nor stroke of even Smart and that's impossibly sad. Ricky looked like a real, live 1 in his 2 games against the Celts, and i never thought that would happen, but they need a wing to push thunderdumb spacehog Wiggins to 2nd unit or KAT will start develop the same beautiful-loser ways that the Brow has.
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Boston
Footballguy
Celtics clinch the #1 seed in the lottery sweepstakes...the Nets really came thru for them this year...worst case scenario is it ends up being the #4 which is still very valuable with this year's rookie crop...the lead-up to the draft is going to be beyond entertaining as a C's fan as rumor central will be in complete overdrive...
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Did anyone catch the Pistons and Rockets last night? Was Boban really that good or was this a case of a guy putting up some end of the year numbers that really don't matter?
msudaisy26
Footballguy
I agree with trading one of their 5 starters they won't be able to afford them all and I think too many of their players need the ball in their hands a lot to be successful. I don't think it should be KAT(superstar in the making) or Dieng(good energy guy, doesn't need the ball, and a decent contract with the salary cap going up). So why Wiggins?
He's probably got the highest value of anyone besides Towns, he doesn't play well with Lavine, and I think he's more Rudy Gay than future superstar.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
Biggest games today with playoff implications today appear to be Portland-Utah and Miami-Washington.
Both featuring a team fighting to get/stay in and a team where seeding is pretty important (though Washington may be a little more dubious since it depends in part on whether CLE holds the 1 seed).
Miami and Washington play again on Wednesday to end the season.
Both featuring a team fighting to get/stay in and a team where seeding is pretty important (though Washington may be a little more dubious since it depends in part on whether CLE holds the 1 seed).
Miami and Washington play again on Wednesday to end the season.
Kev4029
Footballguy
If LaVine is back to 100% after his injury, I would trade him instead. They won't get nearly as good of a return and losing his shooting will be an issue, but the difference in their defensive potential is massive. Replacing a talented undersized shooting guard who will never be a plus defender or a point guard is much easier than replacing a (potential) two way wing with very good size. I'm not much of a fan of Wiggins, but I get caught up comparing him to the hype from 4 years ago and forget that he just turned 22. He's not going to live up to the hype from when he was 17, but he has the potential to max out as a guy similar to Paul George if he can figure out his defense.
Rudy Gay has/had defensive potential too
. Give me the 39% three point shooter and I'll figure out wing defense later, perhaps using the extra assets that a Wiggins trade would bring. Wiggins could develop and whoever trades him look dumb, but if he has another underwhelming season I suspect his trade value would also take a huge hit (particularly given his forthcoming max extension).
Kev4029
Footballguy
Wiggins and LaVine are both free agents after next year and both are eligible for extensions after this season. I don't think LaVine is going to be much if any cheaper to resign.Rudy Gay has/had defensive potential too
Wiggins has developed into a decent shooter this year, hitting 35.6% of his threes (Gay is 34.5% for his career). He isn't what I would call a volume shooter, but he has attempted nearly 300 threes this year. He certainly isn't the shooter that LaVine is, but with that volume and percentage, he is more than passable from outside. There are probably only a dozen wings in the NBA who are strong contributors on both sides of the court, so that (again, potential) skill is very hard and very expensive to find.
ETA: Wiggins is already essentially prime Rudy Gay minus a couple rebounds at 22, so it isn't hard to see him improving enough to be a borderline all-star in a couple years with only moderate gains the next 2-3 seasons.
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Kev4029
Footballguy
Speaking of wings who are going to be borderline all-stars, Gary Harris has been fantastic the last few months. He was playing well at the beginning of the year, but he has been on fire since the all-star break, averaging 17/3/3 with a TS% of .655 (54% from the field, 42% from 3). Him and Chandler have been the only passable defenders on the team this year.
The only guards at 22 or younger in the history of the NBA to average 15 ppg (Harris is averaging 15.1) and have a TS% of .600 (Harris is at .615) are Magic, Harden and Harris. I don't think he is going to ever be a primary offensive option, but he will be a fantastic 2nd or 3rd option for the Nuggets for a long time playing next to Jokic.
The only guards at 22 or younger in the history of the NBA to average 15 ppg (Harris is averaging 15.1) and have a TS% of .600 (Harris is at .615) are Magic, Harden and Harris. I don't think he is going to ever be a primary offensive option, but he will be a fantastic 2nd or 3rd option for the Nuggets for a long time playing next to Jokic.
Kev4029
Footballguy
Robertson is going to be an interesting contract this offseason. I could see him getting anywhere from a 3 year deal at the mid-level to a 4 year deal in the 16-18 million a year range.
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
The hypothetical trading of Wiggins is interesting for sure. I think Wiggins is great--but I do think that he sometimes dominates the ball too much when Kat is on the floor. Lots of isolation plays for him late in games--and I personally find that very frustrating. I think Wiggins could be an exciting player for a rebuilding franchise--but I'm not sure he's the type of player that is good enough to be the 2nd best player on a championship squad. I actually see him developing into more of a poor mans Demar Derozan type more than I do the the Rudy Gay type. I actually wouldn't mind seeing him get traded to a team like Dallas for maybe some sort of package centered around Harrison Barnes. I like Barnes better as a defender just through the eye test. I've seen him used to defend 3 positions (SG, SF, and even some PF)--and I think his game is not as dependent on volume shooting like Wiggins is. I also could see Dallas being an exciting young team building around guys like Noel and Wiggins if that trade were to happen.
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Spartans Rule
Footballguy
I've liked him in Detroit. Scores efficiently and has improved his defense. He'll never be a star but he's a real nice 3rd or 4th option.Capella said:
Of course the Pistons are an awful trainwreck so all a guy like that does is hurt your draft position.
Kev4029
Footballguy
I'm surprised that I'm the one in here defending Wiggins, but you guys are selling him a bit short. He's already about at the level of DeRozan and Gay (granted, they are two of the most overrated players of the last decade), and he just turned 22. He may never be more than a volume scorer, but he's already doing at a pretty high level. If he adds anything to his game outside of that, he's going to be a borderline all-star, and it's possible he makes a big leap on the next half decade.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
Just finished the Duncan podcast breaking down the MVP race and honestly I'm still as confused as ever.
I would say that even though subjectively, LeBron is the best and in a vacuum, I would still take him number 1 for the year, his total results and body of work this year just don't quite cut it when there are other guys with such amazing seasons.
About 50-60% of the way through, I was feeling like Kawhi was the answer, because of his all-around game (his defensive stats are supposedly out of wack due to historically fluky opponents' FT and 3pt %), the high level of team success, and the fact that his supporting cast as individuals are actually not amazing (especially on defense and shooting 3s). But obviously the team and system as a whole are great, and he is not the greatest team creator, and he has rested a bit.
I don't love Harden because of his defensive weakness and because I think that his game needs to have the system tailored around him to an extent (not necessarily in one specific way) for him to reach his peak, but the supporting cast is not amazing individually (to be consistent) and really the peak that he can hit and the results that he can achieve for that team is remarkable.
Lastly, I don't love that OKC is "only" a 6 seed in the west, but they are still probably like the 10th-best team, when you think about where they would be in the East. His total usage for the team and overall contribution is probably the greatest and he has carried that team in an amazing way, particularly in the clutch.
I still would lean a little bit toward Kawhi for overall balance, but on pure results, I can't go against Westbrook, particularly when there is no other clear choice on a top, top team.
I would say that even though subjectively, LeBron is the best and in a vacuum, I would still take him number 1 for the year, his total results and body of work this year just don't quite cut it when there are other guys with such amazing seasons.
About 50-60% of the way through, I was feeling like Kawhi was the answer, because of his all-around game (his defensive stats are supposedly out of wack due to historically fluky opponents' FT and 3pt %), the high level of team success, and the fact that his supporting cast as individuals are actually not amazing (especially on defense and shooting 3s). But obviously the team and system as a whole are great, and he is not the greatest team creator, and he has rested a bit.
I don't love Harden because of his defensive weakness and because I think that his game needs to have the system tailored around him to an extent (not necessarily in one specific way) for him to reach his peak, but the supporting cast is not amazing individually (to be consistent) and really the peak that he can hit and the results that he can achieve for that team is remarkable.
Lastly, I don't love that OKC is "only" a 6 seed in the west, but they are still probably like the 10th-best team, when you think about where they would be in the East. His total usage for the team and overall contribution is probably the greatest and he has carried that team in an amazing way, particularly in the clutch.
I still would lean a little bit toward Kawhi for overall balance, but on pure results, I can't go against Westbrook, particularly when there is no other clear choice on a top, top team.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
You are right, the problem is who is on his team. I don't think he will ever make that jump with KAT on that team, it also depends on Rubio. Wiggins needs the ball to score, he isn't a Richard Hamilton or Reggie Miller type scorer.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Anyone else like the fact that since the trade deadline Butler and George have been 2 of the best 5 players in the league and the Cavs look very beatable. Keep stock piling those assets though Ainge.
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Kev4029
Footballguy
Hamilton's and Wiggins' usage rates are pretty similar and prime Reggie Miller wasn't much behind. Wiggins is already more efficient than Hamilton and I don't think it's fair to hope for a Reggie Miller type scorer from anybody, that mix of moderately high usage and elite efficiency is incredibly rare. The list of perimeter players (guards or small forwards) that have at least 20,000 points (Miller has over 25000) with a TS% greater than .600 (Miller retired at .614) is him and Dantley. Drop that all the way down to 4029 points (thats how many points Chamberlain had in '62) and the list is only 11 players long.
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
I would not say that he's pretty much at the level of Derozan just yet. Derozan averaged nearly 4 more pts per game, 1 more rebound per game, 2 more assists per game, on better field goal percentage, shot 9% better from the free throw line---then Wiggins did this season. He also did all of this averaging nearly 2 fewer minutes per game than Wiggins did. If Wiggins improves his game a bit--he's basically in line to be a Derozan type--but the numbers show that he's not quite there yet. With that being said--I'm not sure how him improving his game and being a borderline all star is somehow an argument against comparing him to Derozan. Derozan is a bit better than him at this point in time--and easily is an all star or a borderline one--so I think that a Derozan comparison actually helps your position--not counters it. One thing I do fully agree with you on is if he makes some sort of "big leap" the next half decade. If he does make some major strides in his game--he could easily exceed Derozan potential---but at this moment in time--he's not at Derozan level yet.
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
You're forgetting that Derozan is one of the absolute worst defenders in the league.
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
In a half-defense of the C's, I think they would be live in a 7 game series against the Cavs, despite their game the other day. And we don't exactly what it would've taken to get either player.
They've also got much, much more in the way of assets and cap flexibility than CLE. Maybe they just stay low and continue to build, they could get an elite rookie this off-season along with someone like Hayward, or Millsap.
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
You are disregarding the fact that Wiggins is not a really good defender either. Look at defensive win share for this season. Derozan ranks 85--Wiggins ranks 219 in the league. Neither of them are really good defenders--so I'm not sure how that aspect would somehow put Wiggins ahead of Derozan at this point in time.
http://stats.nba.com/players/defense/#!?sort=DEF_WS&dir=-1
Kev4029
Footballguy
I don't know if I would count for defensive win shares to show who is the better of two bad defenders.
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
Where did I say that Wiggins was better? I said that neither Wiggins or Derozan are good defenders and used defensive win shares to show that. I was responding to a claim that somebody made that I was failing to address some sort of defensive gap between Derozan and Wiggins- and I used data to show that if there was a slight gap on that side- it'd be in Derozan's favor at this point in time.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
Wiggy has a grasp of spatial relationships on a par w your avg Taylor Swift fan. This kind of talent is supposed troll the 3pt line but Wiggy dont trey so he cant but clog virtually every sensible thing a Wolf might do. Worst great player ever.
Kev4029
Footballguy
Wiggins is making 35.6% of his threes and the league average is 35.8%. He's not somebody with a ton of gravity but he's taking 3.5 threes a game and making them at a high enough percentage to have his defender respect his ability. The bigger issue is Rubio or Dunn's man sagging way off and clogging the lane and the other perimeter players mostly being terrible (LaVine excluded).
bananafish
Footballguy
Draymond Green hit three 3s last night. If he starts making them at 36%+ like he did last year the Warriors will be impossible to defend. I think his dearth of shooting is one of the reasons the death lineup hasn't been as effective this year.
Oh, and Durantula is back. 16/10/6 in 31 minutes. That might have an effect as well.
Oh, and Durantula is back. 16/10/6 in 31 minutes. That might have an effect as well.
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