NutterButter
Footballguy
They'll probably be paying a lot of luxury tax to put that squad together. That 3 max contracts and Bradley making 20m. You can forget about depth.
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2016-17 NBA Thread: Finals are over, please go away (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter Capella
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Sammy3469
Footballguy
Right...In actuality IT is the least of their roster construction "problems". Their C position (Olynck and Johnson) are both FA and want to get paid. With Fultz coming in and with both Bradley and Smart entering the last year of their deals they don't really have enough G minutes to keep everyone happy especially with Brown and Crowder as SF-stretch 4 guys. And they have 27 million committed to Horford.
Point being, they have a lot of decisions to make this offseason and can't just roll it back with just the addition of Fultz.
Workhorse
Footballguy
Right now, you are correct. However, Fultz/Brown plus at least one other high lottery pick are the building blocks of something that could be very good in 2020 and beyond. Fultz has a good chance to be a franchise kind of player.
Capella
Footballguy
They should punt those awful centers. Smart sucks, don't pay him. Can't really use Bradley at his price if you keep IT and Fultz. Horford is going to be a disaster shortly.
Definitely an interesting team.
Workhorse
Footballguy
It's a deep, flawed roster for sure. That's why you can't over-commit to anyone right now. I would much rather punt on the current backcourt and sell it off for parts, sign Hayward to a max deal and hand the keys to Brown and Fultz for a few seasons to let them develop, along with next year's Nets lottery pick. Short of getting a guy like Anthony Davis (never happening), there's nothing you can add to this current core that can win a title in the short term. May as well reboot and develop a team that can be a powerhouse post-Lebron prime.
wilked
Footballguy
I can't tell if this is a joke or if you seriously think the Bulls would do this
Just to recap, here is that Clippers pick
2019 first round draft pick from L.A. Clippers - If at least two years after the L.A. Clippers conveyed a 1st round pick to Toronto, then the L.A. Clippers will convey their 1st round pick to Boston (via Memphis) protected for selections 1-14 in 2019 and 1-14 in 2020; if the L.A. Clippers have not conveyed a 1st round pick to Boston by 2020, then the L.A. Clippers will instead convey their 2022 2nd round pick to Boston
Sammy3469
Footballguy
Oh I agree...but this we'll sign Hayward and run it back stuff is bunk. If they go after Hayward they lose their starting C. Now granted the C market is weak right now, so trading Crowder for a C wouldn't be a real problem (especially with Bradley or Smart thrown in), but this nonsense that signing Hayward is "free" in the media needs to stop. Signing him (or extending IT) means they're jettisoning 3-5 other guys and limiting their options after 2018.
I'm sort of of the opinion that they should do nothing this offseason, see what that Brooklyn pick is next year and then make decisions after that. If Fultz is the real deal and Brown continues to develop with a top 4 pick next year, you're set up to win the East whenever LeBron is done.
Baloney Sandwich
Footballguy
Boston
Footballguy
What he has done is not irrelevant...it is very relevant...he has proven he can be an elite scorer and fourth quarter performer in the NBA...and like I said if you can improve the team by dealing with him I am all for it but 30 point per game players are not an easy commodity to find...
Boston
Footballguy
If you can get Bradley on a team-friendly deal I am all for it but I don't think that is realistic...but I don't see a team with him as a top 3 player winning a title...
Capella
Footballguy
Hmmm. Not sure about that last sentence. If things work out in Philly their top-end talent could be better. Especially if Embiid comes through. Rest I agree with.
Boston
Footballguy
So you don't think playing big time playoff or regular season games helps build young players or your team in general? If you can show me a way to get any of the players you just mentioned than you can disregard the whole culture thing but right now I don't see that happening...I have no interest in being a team like the Sixers that are awful for a huge stretch and than you suddenly feel they are going to turn into a title contender because it looks good on paper...
Baloney Sandwich
Footballguy
Sammy3469
Footballguy
We'll see...I'm a little skeptical with what Philly is going to try, but look forward to the experiment.
SWC
Bromigo
embids foot and knee stuff scares me brohans i hope that he comes through it and we get to see him be what he can be but it sort of feels jabrarish or ilgoonus zilaguauskusy to me just a poor guy who had a spark but who was always hurt although i hope that is not the case take that to teh bank brohahs
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
maybe i'm crazy, but I'm not sure how long Cleveland will necessarily keep up. Lebron is not going to get better and sure it would not shock me if he can maintain for several years, but there is also a real possibility of decline. It doesn't seem like Kyrie wants to improve his defense, so while he can continue to refine his offensive game, I'm not not sure that has a measurable impact on them as a title contender over time. Love is not getting better obviously. They are clearly showing that they can still bring their A game when they really have to, but this regular season was quite blah.
In the end, I'm just not sure that it is so inconceivable for the Celtics to be better than Cleveland in the near future. Though I agree that it will be sad when they are immediately eclipsed by the Bucks and Sixers.
In the end, I'm just not sure that it is so inconceivable for the Celtics to be better than Cleveland in the near future. Though I agree that it will be sad when they are immediately eclipsed by the Bucks and Sixers.
Niles Standish
Footballguy
Great players become great regardless if they have the work ethic (even if they don't maybe have that work ethic if we're talking someone as physically dominant as Shaq).
Leading a team and taking all that responsibility is important in a player's development too. Even if it's a bad team around you without a winning culture. That's how LeBron, Curry, Durant and Harden developed. It's also how Jordan developed. If Jaylen Brown sits on the bench in big moments and watches Jae Crowder is he really developing all that much? A year or two from now we'll know what he is. But sitting on the bench for a good not great team isn't going to somehow make him a better player.
Philly is awful for a few reasons. The players they hit on have been bigs and in today's NBA bigs don't lead you to a title. They barely can even get you to the playoffs. You need a guy who can create. Look at NO they have maybe the 2 best bigs in the game and still aren't very good. The other guys Philly has picked haven't been hits. In the draft you need to get lucky. Sometimes that #1 pick doesn't end up being all that good.
Who is the best Center left in the playoffs right now? Al Horford I guess if he counts. Otherwise maybe Tristan Thompson? 36 year old Gasol?
NutterButter
Footballguy
They're in really good shape for at least the next 3 years. Thompson, Love, Irving are all young and locked up through then. The cap is going to rise a lot so they'll be able to bring in another very good player. James is just a freak. They can just rest him more during the season. He gets a ton of rest during the playoffs with the bottom seeds being so bad. It doesn't even matter if they get the #1 seed when they can just blow that team out in game 1 and take back home court advantage.
bananafish
Footballguy
I'm a LeBron hater but with the development of his 3-point shot and passing abilities he is arguably getting better, not worse.
Niles Standish
Footballguy
Looking at that Houston roster the next best players after Hakeem were probably Kenny Smith and Mad Max. Horry and Cassell were young but became good players. At the time though they were both afterthoughts. Elie won a lot but was more of a good role player.
So maybe Vernon Maxwell was the 3rd best player.
The Shaq/Kobe 3-peat had some pretty bad 3rd best guys on that team. Looks like Derek Fisher was 3rd best at one point.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
But, Lord help me, do i hate that guy - first, epitome of the "i am great athlete and, therefore, personally profound" trope that is as infuriating as truthiness; then becoming the worst coach/GM in the league and getting away with cuz he's so good, now the "Ali spins" show-em-up artist. What's next - noogies and makin' em eat spit?! "Uncle", OK, #####?!?!
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
I agree with you on your Lebron assessment. He is a talented and physical freak--but is still finding ways to improve his game The dude is clearly shooting for titles and stats have become less important to him. I personally believe that he easily could average a triple double if he wanted to and if the roster construction allowed for it. If he were to have hypothetically replaced Westbrook on OKC this season--he easily could have averaged 30+, 10+, 10+. If anything--the emergence of the quality of his teammates will end up lengthening his elite career as they'll take some of the workload off of his plate.
Capella
Footballguy
What? Name me one scandal Lebron has ever had. When has he ever said he is personally profound? I think he's one of the most quiet laid-back superstars American sports has seen.
You're upset with Lebron showing up Olynik but cool with all the trash talking Isiah does I take it?
MarvinTScamper
Footballguy
I hated LeBron when he jumped from HS with the "buying his mom a Hummer H2" before he even signed a contract with whosever money...but he has been nothing short of fantastic since he started. And he did it his way, which is maybe more admirable.If he self-implodes like Tiger, I would be surprised now.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
IT aint getting the Celts any closer to a title than Harden would, but he's getting em as close (and he's hurt-as-#### right now - bet his jaw gets wired shut after elim). Great bad-team-good players worth it for the 82+ they give you. Champion-track thinking is as flawed as anything else anyways. A Fultz-near-as-good-as-they-say/AB backcourt may be the optimum title-chase duo, but gimme the Leprechaun Oct-to-May and i'll take my chances with June.
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Bobcat10
Footballguy
Let's just hope the Celts don't take it to the levels it looked like they were going to take it late in the 3rd yesterday when Smart switched onto Tristan. Don't ruin another Finals because you're getting swept.
The best was when IT2 and TT started getting chippy, he looked like a 10 year old kid next to his dad, and it looked like Kyrie was trying to direct IT2's attention to a scoreboard.
The best was when IT2 and TT started getting chippy, he looked like a 10 year old kid next to his dad, and it looked like Kyrie was trying to direct IT2's attention to a scoreboard.
Abraham
Footballguy
? Maxwell was quite clearly the #2 guy on that team. EVERYONE else was a role player. I did forget about Otis Thorpe though. He might habe been the 3rd guy.
SWC
Bromigo
my buddies always called me a jackalope for saying it but i think jordan was better when he stopped relying on his high flying dunk in yo face stuff and developed that unguardable turnaround fade away jumper he would still defend like hell so he stayed solid there and the minute you went and sold out to stop that turaround he could still go right by you and dunkorama so hey sometimes getting a little old man game helps a lot take that to the bank brochacharinos
wilked
Footballguy
The point still stands though, no? The one you are talking about will be in the teens at best
Boston
Footballguy
We will have to agree to disagree...these are kids we are talking about...not college players with three or four years of big-time ball under their belt...I think the best thing to happen to Brown was how he was handled this year...instead of being thrown to the wolves in a Sacramento situation he played a meaningful season/got great playoff experience/rounded out his game and I could not be more happy with where he is right now...as he continues to develop he will get more and more minutes and will supplant some veterans when he is ready...you really can't be using guys like Jordan or LeBron as examples because those are two of the best to ever play the game...I love Jaylen Brown but he is nowhere near that level...under no condition was he anywhere close to being able to be a leader for the C's right now...hopefully in three or four years he will be and can take the torch from a guy like Horford who will be on his way out after showing some of these kids how to be a legit professional...
NutterButter
Footballguy
Aside from George, Durant is also a free agent after next season. Will be interesting to see where he goes. Curry is going to get paid this summer.
modogg
Footballguy
I can only speak to the Philly side of things, but man this couldn't be more inaccurate. I'll gladly come in here and admit to being wrong, but tell me in 2-3 years when the 6ers are in the playoffs that Embiid and Simmons won't effect the game. This year was all about injuries, which has been too much of a common theme. For me, I am glad Embiid's injury this year wasn't his foot or his back, so I am hopeful that he doesn't have a career-threatening injury (despite people loving to relate him to Greg Oden). They have plenty of good, young talent, and the whole idea of "the process" was based on the idea that top draft picks aren't a guarantee. Only real miss they have had is Okafor, which from the rumors sounds like it was something that was done based on outside factors.
Your mention of NO is an interesting one, I am intrigued with how they look next year. It is comical to think big, and 2 bigs is such a flawed plan, Duncan and Robinson aren't that long ago. Coaching, etc., is a big factor. I for one think the NO plan can work, but am not confident it will because that organization seems to have other flaws. But to think it can't work is short-sighted as well. Give me an athletic center like Embiid and I am very confident he can prove that wrong.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
I'm hearing now that the Celts have to divest pretty heavily (no Olynyk qualifier, keep Dancing Bear away another yr, trade either AB or Rozier even) to make max offer to Hayward. I thought there was one more "everybody partyparty" year capwise. Anybody else know about this?
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modogg
Footballguy
http://www.celticsblog.com/2017/4/7/15225330/breaking-down-lower-101-million-cap-projection-boston-celtics-nba-gordon-hayward-blake-griffin
Celtics blog that explains their salary cap space for next year (I believe, didn't read details).
On The Rocks
Footballguy
I don't think there is anything I've wanted in the NBA more; than to see the Lakers pass on Lorenzo Ball in the draft.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
yeah, that's the article i saw. like i said, i thought it was gonna be "make it rain" money for everyone for another offseason and yet a team with three of its stars (Leprechaun, AB, Crowder) seriously under market value has to clear the decks to sign a second maxie?! wassupwiddat?!?!
ETA: dunno bowchoo, but i just cant live thru another year without the Dancing Bear
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Boston
Footballguy
Very good article...breaks it down nicely...looking at this makes me think even more that Bradley will end up being the odd man out...
Dedfin
Footballguy
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
Dedfin
Footballguy
Ohh, I really didn't know who you were talking about (or who this guy was until now). I don't ever claim to be the biggest NBA fan!
eta ---- he looks dangerous!
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Boston
Footballguy
modogg
Footballguy
from what I have heard about the situation is that as well, but I think that teams know that so Boston can't expect much in return for whatever they choose to do. Similar to Philly with the bigs, I think the time for Ainge to do something about this was the trade deadline or last season, not now. Of course they are in the ECF so Ainge can give me a nice middle finger in return for those thoughts and he wouldn't be wrong.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
messin w u a lil, dood, but i saw Yabusele last year in the summer league and fell me in lublublub w sum Dancin' Bear, baby! . be a star long after Trumphands Brown is in neverwas rehab..
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Dedfin
Footballguy
So I guess you guys (yes, you are speaking for all Cs fans) are expecting him to be on the team next year?
Boston
Footballguy
I disagree...now that you know you have the #1 pick you are dealing from strength...remember, when they were talking trade before teams did not know if that pick was 1 or 4...they also have the Brooklyn pick next year so they have the option of dealing that or bringing in another high-end youngster...
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