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2017-18 NBA (Playoffs): A gasping, wheezing thread begs message board poster arguing how Jordan never lost a Finals to just let it die in peace (2 Viewers)

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thecatch said:
The problem is that it’s so tough to build around an offensive-oriented center these days. To spend energy creating space, getting the ball, going into traffic and taking a beating, and then run the full length of the floor and anchor the defense and dominate the defensive glass is asking too much for anybody except Davis (and even then, he’s more perimeter oriented offensively). 
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Point taken. I see more potential of a Doncic whiff than an Ayton whiff.  :shrug:

 
It should be really interesting to see what Cousins gets this offseason.

There's little doubt he's one of the most talented individual players in the league but I've seen several times him getting run off the court. Coming off serious injury, checkered past and Pellies undeniably being a better team without him. The ball movement with them just improved 10x over. It will be interesting to see what teams will invest with him. And then compare it to what Capela gets

 
the moops said:
Devin Booker?
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Absolutely. I know he's been ridiculed but he's been tanking on defense and battling injuries while carrying the offense. Westbrook syndrome. Russ can play great D when he has to also. This whole past season was an injury riddled joke for Booker and Phoenix. My comments are specific to his rookie year before things fell apart so badly around him and when his job was literally to play defense. Nevermind the tanked stats. Watch him when he has to stop someone and the game is on the line. He's really good. I love the kid.

 
Craig_MiamiFL said:
It should be really interesting to see what Cousins gets this offseason.

There's little doubt he's one of the most talented individual players in the league but I've seen several times him getting run off the court. Coming off serious injury, checkered past and Pellies undeniably being a better team without him. The ball movement with them just improved 10x over. It will be interesting to see what teams will invest with him. And then compare it to what Capela gets
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KAT and Gobert have the accolades but Capela was better than both. I like this discussion. Screw Ayton. I change my mind. Brow Durant and Giannis are the most effective really tall guys in the league. I hesitate to call them bean polls bigs, but Capela is similar in that he has the wheels and lungs to play both ends. He made KAT and Gobert look plodding and helpless. Good stuff. I still don't want Doncic because Teodosic/Hezonia... but traditional centers are liabilities. There's none left of the remaining four teams starters.

 
TobiasFunke said:
If you are like me and you don't want nice things for Boston sports fans, it was pointed out on twitter last night that they will absolutely positively 100% talk themselves into "Brad Stevens gives us a puncher's chance against the Warriors!" during the pre-Finals break.

Plus we'd all get to actually enjoy the Warriors, which I didn't ever expect to happen again. I figured those halycon days of the 2014-15 season were gone forever.
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Must....resist....the....urge......stay......reasonable......... :oldunsure:

 
Craig_MiamiFL said:
I don't know if it's so much offensive center as much as the traditional center as we knew it struggle more than ever keeping up with the pace of the game at the highest levels (which you alluded to in the latter part).  Unless they've got youth on their side, the higher level teams right now can wipe them off the court. 

Was really why it was just so puzzling on the spending spree at the position a couple years ago.. You could even extend this to some PFs.
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agree more so with this. Embiid and Davis, as well as maybe Townes, are considered the #1 option on their teams. and those 3 seem so have built respectable offenses

 
modogg said:
agree more so with this. Embiid and Davis, as well as maybe Townes, are considered the #1 option on their teams. and those 3 seem so have built respectable offenses
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All 3 of these guys like to step out and shoot threes, which was unheard of for "traditional" centers.

 
Jayrod said:
All 3 of these guys like to step out and shoot threes, which was unheard of for "traditional" centers.
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yeah, maybe I misread, but thought the whole premise was that the C position has changed so dramatically. A guy like Jah Okafor would have fit in as a steady double-double in the early 90's, but does not fit in the game today. the idea was that it is hard to build around Centers these days, and I think it might be easier with the high-end C's in the league who can do multiple things on offense

 
Embiid and Davis, as well as maybe Townes

Jayrod said:
All 3 of these guys like to step out and shoot threes, which was unheard of for "traditional" centers.
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Cousins may shoot it better than any of them, but he's the reason thecatch doesn't like Ayton. It's the oversized plodding guys that (as good as they are) are creating liabilities for their teams. As CMFL points out, they can't keep up. There was a point in game 5 where Embiid went all out and Philly looked like they were going to win, but he couldn't maintain the pace. Will anyone built like him be able to? KAT and Gobert looked so slow against Houston. I love Embiid and Cousins. I'm thinking that's a mistake. It isn't about the ability to shoot threes like the three in the quote. It's the ability to keep up with the pace and defend the rim and the stripe like Davis... not Embiid and Townes. Interesting to me anyway.

 
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modogg said:
yeah, maybe I misread, but thought the whole premise was that the C position has changed so dramatically. A guy like Jah Okafor would have fit in as a steady double-double in the early 90's, but does not fit in the game today. the idea was that it is hard to build around Centers these days, and I think it might be easier with the high-end C's in the league who can do multiple things on offense
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it's still a tremendous workload to have to cover that much ground on both offense and defense at starter-level minutes that almost no one can really do for very long.

 
Capella said:
I guess? Doesn’t seem like much of a track record to me. 
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To be fair there haven't exactly been a whole bunch drafted top 3 either.  That being said every good team has a C that can do at least 3 of the following 4 things well (shoot the 3, rim run, protect the rim, be able to switch on the perimeter defending the PnR), so if you think Ayton's defensive awareness can be fixed, you take him and don't look back.  Otherwise, you look to someone else.

 
Capella said:
That’s the point. 
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I don’t know jack about Doncic other than what others have written, but he averaged 21/8/7 per 36 in Europe versus Hezonja at 14/5/3. Doncic is also the best player on his team (maybe Europe) as a 19 year old while Hezonja was a role player. Hezonja also had a rep as a bit of a selfish hothead coming in. Like I said, I can’t even claim to be well versed even in their respective YouTube highlights, but Doncic seems to be in a different league. 

 
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Capella said:
I guess? Doesn’t seem like much of a track record to me. 
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Poorly utilized. Knicks want him to be a 5, he wants to be a 3, but he could be deadly as a hi-poster like Russell, Sikma, Smits, Sampson or way similar to how the Nugs use Jokic. Has a fine passing eye, but stopped passing after rookie season. After he makes the pass that kicks a play he can float to the side or str8 in for the OB and avoid as much contact as most pivots do, then play the zone cheater on D like Simmons does in Philly, except for blocks instead of steals. Limit contact, maximize height advantages & outside abilities. Top dozen player used right.

 
modogg said:
Dario Saric was 10 I believe. I think looking at the last 10 drafts or so, Saric at 10 isn't too bad
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There's also a Greek dude who went 15th who's panned out fairly well so far.  Yannis somethingorother.

Also you people are not giving nearly enough credit to the historic NBA career of Jan "Airwolf" Vesely.

 
thecatch said:
I don’t know jack about Doncic other than what others have written, but he averaged 21/8/7 per 36 in Europe versus Hezonja at 14/5/3. Doncic is also the best player on his team (maybe Europe) as a 19 year old while Hezonja was a role player. Hezonja also had a rep as a bit of a selfish hothead coming in. Like I said, I can’t even claim to be well versed even in their respective YouTube highlights, but Doncic seems to be in a different league. 
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He also proved himself to me in Eurobasket last summer on the Slovenian team with Dragic.  They played against a number of NBA players.  He's clearly one of the best prospects to come out of Europe.  The fear, I guess, is that he is getting close to his peak at a young age.  But his floor is still that of a very good NBA player.  

 
bananafish said:
Budenholzer to coach the Bucks. Didn't he have the same strategic shortcomings as Casey? Curious as to why he got the plum job.
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I don't recall people complaining about Bud's in game adjustments, but maybe a Hawks fan (if any exist) can enlighten us. 

It's clear Bud got axed because he wouldn't tank.

 
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