2017-18 NBA (Playoffs): A gasping, wheezing thread begs message board poster arguing how Jordan never lost a Finals to just let it die in peace (3 Viewers)

[the moops]

sorry, we all can't have Jimmy F'n Butler

Actually, with the garbage that MIN sent to CHI, anyone probably could have

 

[dickey moe]

Draymond's tux was TIGHT.

 

[Charlie Harper]

He may be almost as good but he is a terrible fir for the new look of this team. The ball is going to, or at least should be, in the hands of Butler and Wiggins most of the time. They need a PG who can defend (Rubio can), and knock down open threes (Rubio can't). 

Butler and Wiggins will need to finish and score, but they don't need to have the ball a ton to do that. It's probably best if Rubio handles the rock most of the time since neither Butler or Wiggins has very good handles or is a great passer. 

 

[Short Corner]

Giannis is definitely special, but if Embiid is healthy i may lean having him. It is definitely close. 

Still don't see Milwaukee getting very far with the current roster, and i do actually like them. Jabari just seems like he will not be 100% ever

It's not close

 

[Insein]

Milwaukee has a way way better player than anybody on Philly's roster. 

Right now, anteater is healthier but I think at the end of their careers, Embiid will be better.

 

[need2know]

Giannis is definitely special, but if Embiid is healthy i may lean having him. It is definitely close. 

Still don't see Milwaukee getting very far with the current roster, and i do actually like them. Jabari just seems like he will not be 100% ever

Nah.  I love embiid but give me giannis

 

[Boston]

Nah.  I love embiid but give me giannis

Yup...he is turning into a prototype for how the NBA is played today...

 

[need2know]

Yup...he is turning into a prototype for how the NBA is played today...

If I could see embiid play a whole season and start to develop his game more I may change my mind.  But anyone choosing embiid over giannas is being a homer.  And I'm a sixer s fan

 

[tommyGunZ]

ehh, i got a 1 week old screaming. This too shall pass.....  Without a doubt Embiid is much more enjoyable ROY then Brogden is. 

Congrats modoog!  

 

[tommyGunZ]

Embiid is awesome but god only knows with him. Giannis is one of the most valuable assets in the league. They can build around him. 

I wonder what history says about guys who play 31 games in their first 3 years in the league?  I like Embiid, but availability is the most important ability.  

 

[the moops]

Butler and Wiggins will need to finish and score, but they don't need to have the ball a ton to do that. It's probably best if Rubio handles the rock most of the time since neither Butler or Wiggins has very good handles or is a great passer. 

How the hell do you finish and score without the ball in your hands?

 

[On The Rocks]

Can someone explain to me the NBA Salary Cap?  Is the $99 million a firm number?  Or is it that if a team goes over, is that when they pay a luxury tax?  What constitutes an "exception"?    What are "Bird Rights"?  I need the complete explanation.  I keep seeing these rumors about the Celtics making a deal with PG, that he will agree to if they sign Hayseed.  They just signed Horford to a max deal last year.  If they keep IT, he will need a max deal.  How would a team be able to offer max deals to 4 players and still have enough money to sign 8 other guys?  Sounds like the NBA Salary Cap is one giant cluster @#%*. 

 

[On The Rocks]

Bill Russell - still trash talking trash at the age of 83.

 

[Sammy3469]

Giannis just had one of the top 20 seasons for a 22 year old ever and Embiid is actually a year older than him.  

 

[SWC]

look i feel like im back in dad mode here both anteaternintendo and embeed are good players and they are both special in there own way and your mom and i love you both the same take that to the bank brohans 

 

[bushdocda]

Giannis can only be stopped by Jabari chucking shots. 

 

[TobiasFunke]

Can someone explain to me the NBA Salary Cap?  Is the $99 million a firm number?  Or is it that if a team goes over, is that when they pay a luxury tax?  What constitutes an "exception"?    What are "Bird Rights"?  I need the complete explanation.  I keep seeing these rumors about the Celtics making a deal with PG, that he will agree to if they sign Hayseed.  They just signed Horford to a max deal last year.  If they keep IT, he will need a max deal.  How would a team be able to offer max deals to 4 players and still have enough money to sign 8 other guys?  Sounds like the NBA Salary Cap is one giant cluster @#%*. 

Sounds like you've got the basics figured out to me.

Here's a really well done FAQ, it's my go-to whenever I have a question or hear about some weird new rule I didn't know about.

 

[msudaisy26]

Giannis can only be stopped by Jabari chucking shots. 

I didn't get to watch the Bucks a lot, but I thought Parker looked really good. I felt really bad for him when he torn his ACL again. 

 

[Anarchy99]

The talk around Boston has been about the report that the Celtics allegedly had a deal worked out with Hayward and also had a trade in place with Indiana for George (with George agreeing to a 3 year extension).

But apparently they couldn't announce any of this until July. Also, the talk on sports radio was that the dominoes have to fall in that order or they couldn't do it. There was no explanation given on why though.

I assume that they have to sign Hayward first to fit under the cap. Would Boston then be able to trade for George and then use a Bird exception, which would allow them to go over the cap and not pay as much luxury tax? George has a year left on his contract and then a player option. Does he have to play out this year before he can sign an extension or qualify for a Bird exception?

 

[RUSF18]

The talk around Boston has been about the report that the Celtics allegedly had a deal worked out with Hayward and also had a trade in place with Indiana for George (with George agreeing to a 3 year extension).

But apparently they couldn't announce any of this until July. Also, the talk on sports radio was that the dominoes have to fall in that order or they couldn't do it. There was no explanation given on why though.

I assume that they have to sign Hayward first to fit under the cap. Would Boston then be able to trade for George and then use a Bird exception, which would allow them to go over the cap and not pay as much luxury tax? George has a year left on his contract and then a player option. Does he have to play out this year before he can sign an extension or qualify for a Bird exception?

From a few days ago 

Some follow up talk on the next pages

 

[Tau837]

Not that much talk about awards in here. The biggest snub seems to be that Avery Bradley did not make the first or second All Defensive team All NBA. IMO he was more deserving than all 4 guards who made it (Paul, Beverley, Allen, Danny Green).  

(Not a Celtics fan.)

 

[Kev4029]

The talk around Boston has been about the report that the Celtics allegedly had a deal worked out with Hayward and also had a trade in place with Indiana for George (with George agreeing to a 3 year extension).

But apparently they couldn't announce any of this until July. Also, the talk on sports radio was that the dominoes have to fall in that order or they couldn't do it. There was no explanation given on why though.

I assume that they have to sign Hayward first to fit under the cap. Would Boston then be able to trade for George and then use a Bird exception, which would allow them to go over the cap and not pay as much luxury tax? George has a year left on his contract and then a player option. Does he have to play out this year before he can sign an extension or qualify for a Bird exception?

If they have a deal with Hayward, they are in pretty big trouble for tampering. Until the end of the month, he is still a member/employee of the Jazz.

As RUSF linked below, they need to sign Hayward under the cap (which in itself will be an issue). After they sign him they will likely be all the way to the cap. They can then trade for George, but they will have to match his salary in the trade (technically I think it is George's salary minus $5 million, so $14.3 million). Not sure exactly who they would include in that trade, but it is really going to crush their bench.

 

[Kev4029]

Not that much talk about awards in here. The biggest snub seems to be that Avery Bradley did not make the first or second All Defensive team All NBA. IMO he was more deserving than all 4 guards who made it (Paul, Beverley, Allen, Danny Green).  

(Not a Celtics fan.)

Bradley grades out pretty terribly by advanced stats, which aren't perfect but typically are a good indication of a player's fit into the defensive team concept. He's an elite lock down 1-on-1 defender, but a bit overrated otherwise. A elite team defender is much more valuable for 47 minutes of the game than a elite 1-on-1 defender.

 

[Anarchy99]

If they have a deal with Hayward, they are in pretty big trouble for tampering. Until the end of the month, he is still a member/employee of the Jazz.

As RUSF linked below, they need to sign Hayward under the cap (which in itself will be an issue). After they sign him they will likely be all the way to the cap. They can then trade for George, but they will have to match his salary in the trade (technically I think it is George's salary minus $5 million, so $14.3 million). Not sure exactly who they would include in that trade, but it is really going to crush their bench.

Pretty much all sports have free agents agreeing to deals before free agency starts. They just don't announce them. That's why there are so many signings on Day One of free agency.

I am not sure how the salary matching stuff goes if one of the main components of the trade is draft picks. Do the salaries still have to match? Boston can get rid of some guys that are not huge contributors. Tyler Zeller ($8 million) is generally considered a salary equalizer type, but they will likely have to part with some combination of Avery Bradley ($8.8 million), Jae Crowder ($7.3 million), or Marcus Smart ($4.5 million).

They also have Amir Johnson ($12 million) and Jonas Jerebko ($5 million) with expiring contracts. I think Kelly Olynk is under team control if they want him back ($3.1 million). They also have a half dozen bench guys that barely played from $1.2 million to $3 million.

So theoretically maybe the Celts could trade Zeller ($8M), Smart ($4.5M), and Terry Rozier ($3M), and a future first and second for George.

 

[modogg]

pretty good read of Boston and Philly outlook. LIttle long, but seems to be a good objective view:

https://www.sbnation.com/a/celtics-sixers-nba-draft-rebuild-process-sunday-shootaround

 

[Kev4029]

Pretty much all sports have free agents agreeing to deals before free agency starts. They just don't announce them. That's why there are so many signings on Day One of free agency.

I am not sure how the salary matching stuff goes if one of the main components of the trade is draft picks. Do the salaries still have to match? Boston can get rid of some guys that are not huge contributors. Tyler Zeller ($8 million) is generally considered a salary equalizer type, but they will likely have to part with some combination of Avery Bradley ($8.8 million), Jae Crowder ($7.3 million), or Marcus Smart ($4.5 million).

They also have Amir Johnson ($12 million) and Jonas Jerebko ($5 million) with expiring contracts. I think Kelly Olynk is under team control if they want him back ($3.1 million). They also have a half dozen bench guys that barely played from $1.2 million to $3 million.

So theoretically maybe the Celts could trade Zeller ($8M), Smart ($4.5M), and Terry Rozier ($3M), and a future first and second for George.

The salaries have to match according to the following:
 

Outgoing Salary Max Incoming Salary
$0 to $9.8 million 50% of the outgoing salary, plus $100,000
$9.8 million to $19.6 million The outgoing salary plus $5 million
$19.6 million and up 125% of the outgoing salary, plus $100,000


Zeller will have to be released to to sign Hayward and I think they'll have to renounce the rights to all their free agents (meaning they can't sign them if they are above the cap). The only salaries they'll really have to trade are Bradley, Crowder, Smart, Rozier, and Brown. All those expiring contracts that you are talking about are no longer expiring come July 1, they are expired and the players are free agents, so they don't help.

 

[thecatch]

I just listened to super Jazz homer David Locke on his podcast a week or so ago; he did not sound particularly confident Hayward would be staying. If he's nervous that's probably not a good sign for the Jazz. The only reason I can think why Hayward would want to leave is how the Jazz handled his restricted FA a few years back; I guess that's a lesson as to why you don't play games with your restricted FA. 

 

[wikkidpissah]

From a few days ago 

Some follow up talk on the next pages

But now the same thing is coming from the Boston Herald reporter who is widely considered the town's Ainge insider. The whole extension agreement sounds hinky(ie?) and makes me doubt the whole thing, but it's supposedly Crowder, Smart, plus the LA & Mem picks next yr, leaving the last Jersey pick safe. I'm happy for a year of George (tho i still worry he's on a Melo track) @ that price.

 

[Anarchy99]

The salaries have to match according to the following:
 

Outgoing Salary Max Incoming Salary
$0 to $9.8 million 50% of the outgoing salary, plus $100,000
$9.8 million to $19.6 million The outgoing salary plus $5 million
$19.6 million and up 125% of the outgoing salary, plus $100,000


Zeller will have to be released to to sign Hayward and I think they'll have to renounce the rights to all their free agents (meaning they can't sign them if they are above the cap). The only salaries they'll really have to trade are Bradley, Crowder, Smart, Rozier, and Brown. All those expiring contracts that you are talking about are no longer expiring come July 1, they are expired and the players are free agents, so they don't help.

According to Spotrac, BOS is only on the hook for the following guaranteed contracts for 2017:

Horford ($27.7M)
Bradley ($8.8M)
Crowder ($6.8)
Thomas ($6.3M)
Brown ($5M)
Smart ($4.5M)
Rozier ($2M)
TOTAL $61 million for 7 players

I make no claim to understand how the salary cap works in basketball, but if the cap is $99 million this upcoming season, it would appear they have roughly $38 million to round out the roster. I don't know what they have to allocate for Tatum (I assume it would be similar to Jaylen Brown's $4.7 million from last year). That would get them to roughly $66 million for 8 players . . . leaving $33 million left.

George is due $19.5 million this year. If they include Crowder ($7.3M) and Smart ($5M) that doesn't appear to add up to enough salary. (Not sure how the guaranteed money and the money they are due in 2017 are different, but let's ignore that for now and keep going.) Let's just say that somehow the George trade works (maybe they allocate some salary for the traded draft pick).

That would get them to $74 million for Horford-Bradley-IT-Brown-Rozier-Tatum-George. That's only 7 players with a total of $74 million due. How would they be able to add Hayward and still be able to fill out their roster? When are teams allowed to go over the cap? One would guess you can get over the cap in future years or to retain your own players. Am I right in assuming you can't go over the cap to bring new players in?

And where in the timeline could George agree to a three year extension? Before being traded? After being traded? After the 2017-18 season?

 

[wikkidpissah]

According to Spotrac, BOS is only on the hook for the following guaranteed contracts for 2017:

Horford ($27.7M)
Bradley ($8.8M)
Crowder ($6.8)
Thomas ($6.3M)
Brown ($5M)
Smart ($4.5M)
Rozier ($2M)
TOTAL $61 million for 7 players

I make no claim to understand how the salary cap works in basketball, but if the cap is $99 million this upcoming season, it would appear they have roughly $38 million to round out the roster. I don't know what they have to allocate for Tatum (I assume it would be similar to Jaylen Brown's $4.7 million from last year). That would get them to roughly $66 million for 8 players . . . leaving $33 million left.

George is due $19.5 million this year. If they include Crowder ($7.3M) and Smart ($5M) that doesn't appear to add up to enough salary. (Not sure how the guaranteed money and the money they are due in 2017 are different, but let's ignore that for now and keep going.) Let's just say that somehow the George trade works (maybe they allocate some salary for the traded draft pick).

That would get them to $74 million for Horford-Bradley-IT-Brown-Rozier-Tatum-George. That's only 7 players with a total of $74 million due. How would they be able to add Hayward and still be able to fill out their roster? When are teams allowed to go over the cap? One would guess you can get over the cap in future years or to retain your own players. Am I right in assuming you can't go over the cap to bring new players in?

And where in the timeline could George agree to a three year extension? Before being traded? After being traded? After the 2017-18 season?

yeah i dont know how they get George in capwise at all. last i knew, the Hayward number was manageable on the expected $102cap only if they stripped down to your contracts there. they werent even being allowed to activate their Euros (Dancing Bear & Itchy Icicic) to fill out their roster. it's said that the $2mil in cap saving between 1.01 & 1.03 was a big factor in the Philly trade, but now the lower cap has wiped that out

 

[thecatch]

According to Spotrac, BOS is only on the hook for the following guaranteed contracts for 2017:

Horford ($27.7M)
Bradley ($8.8M)
Crowder ($6.8)
Thomas ($6.3M)
Brown ($5M)
Smart ($4.5M)
Rozier ($2M)
TOTAL $61 million for 7 players

I make no claim to understand how the salary cap works in basketball, but if the cap is $99 million this upcoming season, it would appear they have roughly $38 million to round out the roster. I don't know what they have to allocate for Tatum (I assume it would be similar to Jaylen Brown's $4.7 million from last year). That would get them to roughly $66 million for 8 players . . . leaving $33 million left.

George is due $19.5 million this year. If they include Crowder ($7.3M) and Smart ($5M) that doesn't appear to add up to enough salary. (Not sure how the guaranteed money and the money they are due in 2017 are different, but let's ignore that for now and keep going.) Let's just say that somehow the George trade works (maybe they allocate some salary for the traded draft pick).

That would get them to $74 million for Horford-Bradley-IT-Brown-Rozier-Tatum-George. That's only 7 players with a total of $74 million due. How would they be able to add Hayward and still be able to fill out their roster? When are teams allowed to go over the cap? One would guess you can get over the cap in future years or to retain your own players. Am I right in assuming you can't go over the cap to bring new players in?

And where in the timeline could George agree to a three year extension? Before being traded? After being traded? After the 2017-18 season?

Hayward would have to sign before the George trade. If they are capped out after the Hayward signing, they can still trade for George as long as the salaries match or are close enough to matching to be permitted under the league rules as Kev said. Also, the Celtics will need cap space to sign Zizic and whatever other foreign players they have stashed that they want to bring over, so you have to factor that in too. 

 

[Sammy3469]

According to Spotrac, BOS is only on the hook for the following guaranteed contracts for 2017:

Horford ($27.7M)
Bradley ($8.8M)
Crowder ($6.8)
Thomas ($6.3M)
Brown ($5M)
Smart ($4.5M)
Rozier ($2M)
TOTAL $61 million for 7 players

I make no claim to understand how the salary cap works in basketball, but if the cap is $99 million this upcoming season, it would appear they have roughly $38 million to round out the roster. I don't know what they have to allocate for Tatum (I assume it would be similar to Jaylen Brown's $4.7 million from last year). That would get them to roughly $66 million for 8 players . . . leaving $33 million left.

George is due $19.5 million this year. If they include Crowder ($7.3M) and Smart ($5M) that doesn't appear to add up to enough salary. (Not sure how the guaranteed money and the money they are due in 2017 are different, but let's ignore that for now and keep going.) Let's just say that somehow the George trade works (maybe they allocate some salary for the traded draft pick).

That would get them to $74 million for Horford-Bradley-IT-Brown-Rozier-Tatum-George. That's only 7 players with a total of $74 million due. How would they be able to add Hayward and still be able to fill out their roster? When are teams allowed to go over the cap? One would guess you can get over the cap in future years or to retain your own players. Am I right in assuming you can't go over the cap to bring new players in?

And where in the timeline could George agree to a three year extension? Before being traded? After being traded? After the 2017-18 season?

You're missing some stuff.  They also have holds on Tatum for $4.74 million,  Yabusele for $2.2, and Zizic for 1.6 million (total of 8.54 million) and Jackson for 650K for a total of 9.2 million.  That puts them at 70.27 million for 11 roster spots.  Then they also have 2-3 more roster spot holds at the vet minimum.  The 8 year max contract is $29.7 million, so they are at least 2 million short even after renouncing everyone.   That means at a minumum they have to offload Rozier, but probably Smart before even signing Hayward.  

Once that would happen, they would then need to package 14.508 million in salary to get George.  That means at a minimum Bradley and Crowder.  

So net-net you are looking at a roster of:

Horford, George, Hayward, Thomas, Brown, Tatum, Rozier, Yabusele, Zizic, filler.  They should have an exception or two at that point as well to fill out the roster, but the point is, their backcourt depth is shot.   

EDIT: I believe this is accurate, but don't shoot me if I'm wrong on the math...point being is this isn't as clean as just signing Hayward and then magically trading for George with no affects to the rest of the roster.  The backcourt takes a hit if they go for both.  

 

[Anarchy99]

You're missing some stuff.  They also have holds on Tatum for $4.74 million,  Yabusele for $2.2, and Zizic for 1.6 million (total of 8.54 million) and Jackson for 650K for a total of 9.2 million.  That puts them at 70.27 million for 11 roster spots.  Then they also have 2-3 more roster spot holds at the vet minimum.  The 8 year max contract is $29.7 million, so they are at least 2 million short even after renouncing everyone.   That means at a minumum they have to offload Rozier, but probably Smart before even signing Hayward.  

Once that would happen, they would then need to package 14.508 million in salary to get George.  That means at a minimum Bradley and Crowder.  

So net-net you are looking at a roster of:

Horford, George, Hayward, Thomas, Brown, Tatum, Rozier, Yabusele, Zizic, filler.  They should have an exception or two at that point as well to fill out the roster, but the point is, their backcourt depth is shot.   

I included Tatum in my breakdown. Not sure that makes any difference in the overall calculations.

So if I am understanding this correctly, they would lose Bradley-Crowder-Smart and replace them with Hayward-George-Tatum? They would essentially go from guard heavy to small forward heavy?

 

[modogg]

Hayward would have to sign before the George trade. If they are capped out after the Hayward signing, they can still trade for George as long as the salaries match or are close enough to matching to be permitted under the league rules as Kev said. Also, the Celtics will need cap space to sign Zizic and whatever other foreign players they have stashed that they want to bring over, so you have to factor that in too. 

I think that is the big difference in the plan that Hinkie had and what Ainge has been setting up. A hallmark to Hinkie's plan was fitting everything under the salary cap with rookie contracts, extensions, and allowing flexibility with the cap to fit in 1 max contract (if I am viewing this right).

This is what complicates the Celtics plan of wanting to be successful and a contender now, and also in the future.

 

[wikkidpissah]

You're missing some stuff.  They also have holds on Tatum for $4.74 million,  Yabusele for $2.2, and Zizic for 1.6 million (total of 8.54 million) and Jackson for 650K for a total of 9.2 million.  That puts them at 70.27 million for 11 roster spots.  Then they also have 2-3 more roster spot holds at the vet minimum.  The 8 year max contract is $29.7 million, so they are at least 2 million short even after renouncing everyone.   That means at a minumum they have to offload Rozier, but probably Smart before even signing Hayward.  

Once that would happen, they would then need to package 14.508 million in salary to get George.  That means at a minimum Bradley and Crowder.  

So net-net you are looking at a roster of:

Horford, George, Hayward, Thomas, Brown, Tatum, Rozier, Yabusele, Zizic, filler.  They should have an exception or two at that point as well to fill out the roster, but the point is, their backcourt depth is shot.   

EDIT: I believe this is accurate, but don't shoot me if I'm wrong on the math...point being is this isn't as clean as just signing Hayward and then magically trading for George with no affects to the rest of the roster.  The backcourt takes a hit if they go for both.  

IIRC, they can exercise a 2nd yr of exemption on Yabusele and that was what got them under in the original calculations.

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

You're missing some stuff.  They also have holds on Tatum for $4.74 million,  Yabusele for $2.2, and Zizic for 1.6 million (total of 8.54 million) and Jackson for 650K for a total of 9.2 million.  That puts them at 70.27 million for 11 roster spots.  Then they also have 2-3 more roster spot holds at the vet minimum.  The 8 year max contract is $29.7 million, so they are at least 2 million short even after renouncing everyone.   That means at a minumum they have to offload Rozier, but probably Smart before even signing Hayward.  

Once that would happen, they would then need to package 14.508 million in salary to get George.  That means at a minimum Bradley and Crowder.  

So net-net you are looking at a roster of:

Horford, George, Hayward, Thomas, Brown, Tatum, Rozier, Yabusele, Zizic, filler.  They should have an exception or two at that point as well to fill out the roster, but the point is, their backcourt depth is shot.   

EDIT: I believe this is accurate, but don't shoot me if I'm wrong on the math...point being is this isn't as clean as just signing Hayward and then magically trading for George with no affects to the rest of the roster.  The backcourt takes a hit if they go for both.  

The whole signing Hayward and trading for George strikes me as a complete media fabrication.

 

[modogg]

The whole signing Hayward and trading for George strikes me as a complete media fabrication.

seems to be a trend, but I agree with this. The Blake Griffin rumors are intriguing as well, but it seems like news with the Celtics takes a life of it's own and just flows, regardless of things like salary cap issues, etc. Seems like the baton was passed from the Knicks because you don't hear any of these kind of reports anymore from that organization.

 

[Sammy3469]

IIRC, they can exercise a 2nd yr of exemption on Yabusele and that was what got them under in the original calculations.

They don't get that relief until the season would start though (i.e. he would currently have to be under contract with a foreign club to get the relief on July 1).  FWIW, I also think I flubbed Tatum's cap hold which I think is actually 5.6 million since I believe they put all the first round pick holds at 120% since they all sign for that anyway.  

I also don't believe a first round pick would put off starting the clock on his second contract another year.

 

[modogg]

so I think one of the rumors that has been rampant that will likely occur is Sixers signing JJ Reddick. makes a lot of sense for both sides since Sixers have tons of cap space for now. One thing I am struggling with is figuring out if this a playoff team then or not. I think it is all about health, plain and simple. But they had crap for portions of last year and still did well, so I am thinking I will be betting over on their win projections if it is mid-low 30s.

any thoughts? I love betting total wins for teams, and Sixers have paid out 3 of the last 4 years taking their over

 

[Tau837]

Bradley grades out pretty terribly by advanced stats, which aren't perfect but typically are a good indication of a player's fit into the defensive team concept. He's an elite lock down 1-on-1 defender, but a bit overrated otherwise. A elite team defender is much more valuable for 47 minutes of the game than a elite 1-on-1 defender.

Can you cite some of those advanced stats? I looked at DWS and DBPM, and Bradley was better than the rest in those. What are the metrics that show him to be a "pretty terrible" defender?

He was 1st team All Defense just last year; are you suggesting he didn't deserve that? Or his 2012-13 2nd team All Defense selection?

It is anecdotal, but a lot of non-Celtics players reacted with surprise that he didn't make it... a lot of guys that he matches up with.

 

[SoCalBroncoFan]

so I think one of the rumors that has been rampant that will likely occur is Sixers signing JJ Reddick. makes a lot of sense for both sides since Sixers have tons of cap space for now. One thing I am struggling with is figuring out if this a playoff team then or not. I think it is all about health, plain and simple. But they had crap for portions of last year and still did well, so I am thinking I will be betting over on their win projections if it is mid-low 30s.

any thoughts? I love betting total wins for teams, and Sixers have paid out 3 of the last 4 years taking their over

There is only one thing that determines if they are a playoff team: how many games Embiid plays. If he plays in 65 games they will make the playoffs. I believe that the Sixers have enough talent that even if there is an injury or two this year, Embiid is good enough to carry them to the playoffs, 

 

[RUSF18]

That Boston lineup seems like a better version of the "this still isn't enough to beat LeBron/Golden State" team we heard so much about in advance of the trade deadline. 

 

[NutterButter]

I think that lineup certainly gives them the weapons they need to move past the Cavs. 

 

[Anarchy99]

That Boston lineup seems like a better version of the "this still isn't enough to beat LeBron/Golden State" team we heard so much about in advance of the trade deadline. 

The only way Boston stands a chance is if one of their younger players takes a monumental leap or one of the super teams has someone out or hampered. 

But I do think the Celtics would be better with Hayward and George than what they had in 2016-17.  Horford is way overpaid and Thomas is the biggest defensive liability in the league. 

I would miss Bradley, as he is probably my favorite current player on the roster. He actually got the most votes of any player in the Eastern Conference for the all defensive team. He just didn't get enough to beat out the four other guards that made it. 

 

[Elodin]

The only way Boston stands a chance is if one of their younger players takes a monumental leap or one of the super teams has someone out or hampered. 

But I do think the Celtics would be better with Hayward and George than what they had in 2016-17.  Horford is way overpaid and Thomas is the biggest defensive liability in the league. 

I would miss Bradley, as he is probably my favorite current player on the roster. He actually got the most votes of any player in the Eastern Conference for the all defensive team. He just didn't get enough to beat out the four other guards that made it. 

I certainly do not think that team gets by GSW but I think Thomas/Hayward/George/Horford can certainly give Cleveland a run especially with the chance that Cleveland is breaking up. Also accepting Horford is a max player is part of the current NBA landscape, if you have guys like Evan Turner making 18+M and Mozgof getting like 16M, then Horford is going to be a max guy.  3 years of Horford remaining at the max is not a crazy contract. 

 

[Boston]

The only way Boston stands a chance is if one of their younger players takes a monumental leap or one of the super teams has someone out or hampered. 

But I do think the Celtics would be better with Hayward and George than what they had in 2016-17.  Horford is way overpaid and Thomas is the biggest defensive liability in the league. 

I would miss Bradley, as he is probably my favorite current player on the roster. He actually got the most votes of any player in the Eastern Conference for the all defensive team. He just didn't get enough to beat out the four other guards that made it. 

I think you miss the point with Horford...he was a huge signing...prior to him the C's had never landed a big-time free agent (and yes he falls into that category)...getting him broke the seal and in the NBA that is extremely important...it is very much a follow the leader league and right now the C's are in play with big names...so while I understand why some may say he is overpaid in the big scheme of things it is worth it...as for the line-up should the dream of Hayward/George come to fruition I think Celtic fans would have every right to expect Hayward/George/Isiah//Horford/Tatum/Brown (and next year's Brooklyn pick in the bank) and whoever else would be left to be able to go toe-to-toe with the Cavs...as for the Warriors...I'll worry about that one if they can get by the Cavs...that's another story...

 

[Sammy3469]

I think that lineup certainly gives them the weapons they need to move past the Cavs. 

You'd have to see what other parts they could come up with, but I don't see how they'd deal with the LeBron/Irving combo on defense and they'd have even less places to hide IT in general since that roster (as proposed) doesn't have anyone that can really stop PG penetration or a pick and roll.  

That's one of the things that never made much sense with the Tatum pick/trade.  If they pull this off, they are most likely short a combo-ish guard and no real salary to match up for a third move though I guess they can move Brown or Tatum for that need and they'd also have the mid level exception.

 

[Sammy3469]

FWIW, Marks' has the roster under Hayward-PG scenario as:

Roster in Boston would be: Horford, IT, Tatum, Brown, PG, Hayward, Smart, Room ML and 6 minimum/2nd rd. picks.

which is Smart for Zizic and Yabusele.  There's also no real way to give PG an extension since they'd be at the cap and he'd presumably want to renegotiate his salary up to 120% of what he's currently making.  So if they want to extend him, it basically will cost them one of Smart, Tatum, or Brown.  

 

[wikkidpissah]

Y'all are forgetting that the Celtic offense has had but one player - a dwarf at that - who honestly knew what to do with a basketball for virtually the entire Stevens tenure. The improvement offered by the addition of ANY quality offensive FA will be exponential.

 

[NutterButter]

You'd have to see what other parts they could come up with, but I don't see how they'd deal with the LeBron/Irving combo on defense and they'd have even less places to hide IT in general since that roster (as proposed) doesn't have anyone that can really stop PG penetration or a pick and roll.  

That's one of the things that never made much sense with the Tatum pick/trade.  If they pull this off, they are most likely short a combo-ish guard and no real salary to match up for a third move though I guess they can move Brown or Tatum for that need and they'd also have the mid level exception.

you're certainly trading defense for offense with those moves and I can't speak for what schemes they'd use to slow down the cavs, but offensively, they'll be really tough to defend.    spread the floor with hortford, hayward, tatum, george and thomas driving.   that would be fun to watch.