What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

2017-18 NBA (Playoffs): A gasping, wheezing thread begs message board poster arguing how Jordan never lost a Finals to just let it die in peace (7 Viewers)

Status
Not open for further replies.
jvdesigns2002 said:
Seriously--you need to drop that. You've made your position clear.  I picked Golden State to the win the series and being a Pacers fan--I had no rooting interest in the series.  GS certainly played better in the second half than Houston did last night--but watching that game--it was pretty clear that the game was called very one sided. Houston was up 11pts and was looking to push it to 20 towards the end of the first half.  Harden on two consectutive isolation plays at the 3pt line where the refs had crystal clear views of what was going on--and CLEARLY gets fouled on both of them.  Not a call on either--and the result is a GS 3.  A few plays later--Gordon goes for a layup and gets absolutely clobbered by 2 Golden State defenders--and another no call.   You were looking at a team that was looking to be up 20 at half versus a team that was up around 10 at half with every drop of their momentum taken away.

 If you have ever played competitive basketball--you will know that momentum is everything.  Last night wasn't about one missed call where you can just the refs costed "x" number of points.  When officials are calling a game in a manner that seems clearly one sided--it effects everything--including your mentality. You rush your shots as you know that most contact will not get called. You start thinking about everything instead of playing naturally.   The entire nature and dynamic of the game changes.   I still think GS played well enough in the second half to win in it--but as a neutral basketball fan I an absolutely see how fans rooting for Houston feel like they were screwed .  You obviously don't believe that--which is fine--but there is no reason to continuously make snarky comments about a position that you already made crystal clear. Either contribute to a discussion in an inviting manner or let it go.  
Click to expand...
Nah. These guys are professionals playing in the WCF. It’s not the same thing as your game at the Y. They are taught to overcome poor officiating and still find a way to win. They were flat out awful and deserved to lose. 

 
jvdesigns2002 said:
The first one was clearly a foul because in the current NBA you cannot get in the landing zone of a jump shooter.  Don't watch that play looking at the top of their bodies--look at Hardens landing zone. It's crystal clear.  In the current NBA--that's basically an automatic whistle.  It's certainly an almost automatic whistle for a superstar player on his home court.  Don't get me wrong--I picked Golden State to win--and I agree that Harden gets away with a lot--he is a superstar that was playing on his home court.  Pretty much every questionable call went in the favor of GS last night. 

This video shows a bunch of the "said" calls.  I want to make CLEAR that I am not saying nor am I sponsoring the claim that the game was rigged.  It's basically the first video that I could find that shows a lot of the calls that we are talking about.  That is the ONLY reason I'm using it.    I think GS played well enough to win that game--but I also think that Houston did get shafted a bit.  Those two things don't necessarily have to be mutually exclusive. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7kQbw0LkGw
Click to expand...
You can if you (1) block the shot, or (2) have established defensive position before the shooter leaves the floor.

A pet peeve of mine...it's not a jump shot.  I know everyone calls it a jumper but 90+% of perimeter players are set shooters now.  It's the reason the three has become so much more efficient.

 
CGRdrJoe said:
Super teams blah blah blah :rolleyes:  curry, klay and Draymond (2nd round) all drafted by the warriors. Harrison Barnes was the other key player before Durant and where did they get Barnes from? Oh yeah, the draft. Man did they get lucky in 2011 when they signed some guy named Jerry West second best GM ever. @General Malaise you’re still the best GM gb.
Click to expand...
I would say the warriors did get lucky, in that picking outside the top 3 and mostly 7-13, they were able to acquire curry and Thompson, with green a second rounder.  what is interesting in those 3 is that they were all upper classmen, in a day of one and dones.  curry and Thompson juniors, green a senior?  the warriors missed on ekpe udoh and Anthony Randolph.  barnes was a decent piece.  the iguodala and Livingston signings made for perfect comp. pieces.  GS also signed david lee in a sign and trade during 2010.  finding franchise type players lower than 3 back to back is what makes them what they are today.  I don't think it was their awesome scouting dept.

 
Short Corner said:
You can if you (1) block the shot, or (2) have established defensive position before the shooter leaves the floor.

A pet peeve of mine...it's not a jump shot.  I know everyone calls it a jumper but 90+% of perimeter players are set shooters now.  It's the reason the three has become so much more efficient.
Click to expand...
The defender didn't do either on that play--and Harden clearly was in the air.  The defender was jumping forward into Harden's landing zone.  It is clearly a foul in the current NBA.   Like I said--I think GS played well enough to win the game--but I also can absolutely understand how there are some that believe that poor officiating played a factor in the outcome.  This was a game that was determined by less than 10 points.  

I'm going to post the link again in case other users want to see it.  Again--I want to make crystal clear that I do not believe the game was rigged and I'm only using the link because it shows some of the plays that we are discussing. However--while I still believe that GS played good enough to win, I also believe that the refs certainly called the game in their favor.  In any case--I do appreciate the discussion. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7kQbw0LkGw

 
ghostguy123 said:
Cavs +650

Warriors -1100

Anyone know when the last time a team was favored this much in the finals?
Click to expand...
ehh, that's why they call it gambling. I don't see any reason to hedge at this point. My guess is GS wins the 1st 2 at home, (I believe they are the home team for the series), and if I feel I want to hedge after that game is the way to go. would probably look at a Cle +1.5 games hedge since I am sure that will be in + money as well

 
jvdesigns2002 said:
The defender didn't do either on that play--and Harden clearly was in the air.  The defender was jumping forward into Harden's landing zone.  It is clearly a foul in the current NBA.   Like I said--I think GS played well enough to win the game--but I also can absolutely understand how there are some that believe that poor officiating played a factor in the outcome.  This was a game that was determined by less than 10 points.  

I'm going to post the link again in case other users want to see it.  Again--I want to make crystal clear that I do not believe the game was rigged and I'm only using the link because it shows some of the plays that we are discussing. However--while I still believe that GS played good enough to win, I also believe that the refs certainly called the game in their favor.  In any case--I do appreciate the discussion. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7kQbw0LkGw
Click to expand...
My eyes are ####ed right now due to hay fever so I can't say.  It looks like he may have gotten a piece of the ball from the reverse angle.  If he didn't it is clearly a foul.  You also have to take into account that Harden is a notorious flopper/flailer and most officials would rather miss a close one than get duped into one on a big stage.

 
jvdesigns2002 said:
The defender didn't do either on that play--and Harden clearly was in the air.  The defender was jumping forward into Harden's landing zone.  It is clearly a foul in the current NBA.   Like I said--I think GS played well enough to win the game--but I also can absolutely understand how there are some that believe that poor officiating played a factor in the outcome.  This was a game that was determined by less than 10 points.  

I'm going to post the link again in case other users want to see it.  Again--I want to make crystal clear that I do not believe the game was rigged and I'm only using the link because it shows some of the plays that we are discussing. However--while I still believe that GS played good enough to win, I also believe that the refs certainly called the game in their favor.  In any case--I do appreciate the discussion. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7kQbw0LkGw
Click to expand...
I enjoyed watching the first play on that link.  Clear flop by Harden.  That should never be called a foul.

 
jvdesigns2002 said:
Seriously--you need to drop that. You've made your position clear.  I picked Golden State to the win the series and being a Pacers fan--I had no rooting interest in the series.  GS certainly played better in the second half than Houston did last night--but watching that game--it was pretty clear that the game was called very one sided. Houston was up 11pts and was looking to push it to 20 towards the end of the first half.  Harden on two consectutive isolation plays at the 3pt line where the refs had crystal clear views of what was going on--and CLEARLY gets fouled on both of them.  Not a call on either--and the result is a GS 3.  A few plays later--Gordon goes for a layup and gets absolutely clobbered by 2 Golden State defenders--and another no call.   You were looking at a team that was looking to be up 20 at half versus a team that was up around 10 at half with every drop of their momentum taken away.

 If you have ever played competitive basketball--you will know that momentum is everything.  Last night wasn't about one missed call where you can just the refs costed "x" number of points.  When officials are calling a game in a manner that seems clearly one sided--it effects everything--including your mentality. You rush your shots as you know that most contact will not get called. You start thinking about everything instead of playing naturally.   The entire nature and dynamic of the game changes.   I still think GS played well enough in the second half to win in it--but as a neutral basketball fan I an absolutely see how fans rooting for Houston feel like they were screwed .  You obviously don't believe that--which is fine--but there is no reason to continuously make snarky comments about a position that you already made crystal clear. Either contribute to a discussion in an inviting manner or let it go.  
Click to expand...
I hate discussing the officiating, but I agree it is naïve to think it didn't impact the game at all. Houston lost because of the horrid shooting, but the officiating did influence the game. and I was rooting for GS because I had money on them a few different ways

 
The one thing that gives me hope for a close finals is that the East is much better this year.  Maybe the best East that LeBron has made it through.

 
jvdesigns2002 said:
Seriously--you need to drop that. You've made your position clear.  I picked Golden State to the win the series and being a Pacers fan--I had no rooting interest in the series.  GS certainly played better in the second half than Houston did last night--but watching that game--it was pretty clear that the game was called very one sided. Houston was up 11pts and was looking to push it to 20 towards the end of the first half.  Harden on two consectutive isolation plays at the 3pt line where the refs had crystal clear views of what was going on--and CLEARLY gets fouled on both of them.  Not a call on either--and the result is a GS 3.  A few plays later--Gordon goes for a layup and gets absolutely clobbered by 2 Golden State defenders--and another no call.   You were looking at a team that was looking to be up 20 at half versus a team that was up around 10 at half with every drop of their momentum taken away.

 If you have ever played competitive basketball--you will know that momentum is everything.  Last night wasn't about one missed call where you can just the refs costed "x" number of points.  When officials are calling a game in a manner that seems clearly one sided--it effects everything--including your mentality. You rush your shots as you know that most contact will not get called. You start thinking about everything instead of playing naturally.   The entire nature and dynamic of the game changes.   I still think GS played well enough in the second half to win in it--but as a neutral basketball fan I an absolutely see how fans rooting for Houston feel like they were screwed .  You obviously don't believe that--which is fine--but there is no reason to continuously make snarky comments about a position that you already made crystal clear. Either contribute to a discussion in an inviting manner or let it go.  
Click to expand...
No I don't need to drop it. The refs didn't cost anyone a game, and listening to people cry about the refs is lol. 

The players are professionals,  not high school kids. Play better, don't let it affect your game, they are paid millions to do it  

You really want to place blame, blame the players. They missed the shots, they are the ones that complain about every call and flop constantly trying to get calls. 

 
msudaisy26 said:
No I don't need to drop it. The refs didn't cost anyone a game, and listening to people cry about the refs is lol. 

The players are professionals,  not high school kids. Play better, don't let it affect your game, they are paid millions to do it  

You really want to place blame, blame the players. They missed the shots, they are the ones that complain about every call and flop constantly trying to get calls. 
Click to expand...
Are you done?

 
GoBirds said:
If it increases the odds someone knocks off GS I’m all for it but doesn’t change the fact it makes the competition level throughout the league garbage. 
Click to expand...
Was it garbage in the 80's? I kind of remember there were two pre-eminent teams who met several times in the Finals back then as well. Or during Jordan's run? Or during the Celtics/Bill Russell run?
 

I dunno what to tell you. This is kind of how the NBA always works.

 
I'm still a bit stunned by the results of the weekend.  Can't believe neither Rockets nor the Celtics could play one good game when it mattered.  Both teams missed their 3's and it cost them their games. 

The Celtics inability to score had been a problem all season, but 79 points is ridiculous.  Rozier was a dumpster fire, Smart was the bad version and Brown played scared all game.  Tatum and Horford were the only guys who played decent at all.  And there were a TON of open looks in there.  Just couldn't make anything.

As for the Rockets, I really wish Paul had been able to play.  You could see his frustration boil over when that 3 rolled in for Curry and he punched the chair next to him.  Can't imagine how helpless he felt watching that game.  Harden, Gordon & Ariza were a combined 4 for 34 from the 3 pt line for a stellar 11.8%.  Unreal abysmal shooting.

 
msudaisy26 said:
Oh come on. We are back to this now that Cleveland and Golden State did win? 
Click to expand...
It's just common sense. Warriors have two MVPs. The Rockets had none. The Cavaliers have 1 MVP (best player in the world). The Celtics had a good home court advantage.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
jvdesigns2002 said:
Seriously--you need to drop that. You've made your position clear.  I picked Golden State to the win the series and being a Pacers fan--I had no rooting interest in the series.  GS certainly played better in the second half than Houston did last night--but watching that game--it was pretty clear that the game was called very one sided. Houston was up 11pts and was looking to push it to 20 towards the end of the first half.  Harden on two consectutive isolation plays at the 3pt line where the refs had crystal clear views of what was going on--and CLEARLY gets fouled on both of them.  Not a call on either--and the result is a GS 3.  A few plays later--Gordon goes for a layup and gets absolutely clobbered by 2 Golden State defenders--and another no call.   You were looking at a team that was looking to be up 20 at half versus a team that was up around 10 at half with every drop of their momentum taken away.

 If you have ever played competitive basketball--you will know that momentum is everything.  Last night wasn't about one missed call where you can just the refs costed "x" number of points.  When officials are calling a game in a manner that seems clearly one sided--it effects everything--including your mentality. You rush your shots as you know that most contact will not get called. You start thinking about everything instead of playing naturally.   The entire nature and dynamic of the game changes.   I still think GS played well enough in the second half to win in it--but as a neutral basketball fan I an absolutely see how fans rooting for Houston feel like they were screwed .  You obviously don't believe that--which is fine--but there is no reason to continuously make snarky comments about a position that you already made crystal clear. Either contribute to a discussion in an inviting manner or let it go.  
Click to expand...
Harden traveled on the third foul called on Klay.  He does this quite often actually, but it's never called.  Watch his feet in slow motion.  The missed call meant the refs gifted Houston three points since he made the shot and Klay then basically had to sit the entire first half.  I guarantee that missed call was worth at least the 10 points you are talking about. :shrug:  

 
To put into perspective (not that it needs it) the Rockets missing 27 3s in a row, the Pacers averaged only 24.5 3-point attempts per game during the season.

 
I had serious questions about whether Lebron would be able to beat the Celtics at home (to be more accurate, I thought the C’s would win), but I had no faith the Rockets would be able to close out the Warriors at any point. Even during Game 6 it didn’t take a crystal ball to foresee a big Warriors third quarter run coming, as that’s been their M.O. all season. 

 
tjnc09 said:
Harden traveled on the third foul called on Klay.  He does this quite often actually, but it's never called.  Watch his feet in slow motion.  The missed call meant the refs gifted Houston three points since he made the shot and Klay then basically had to sit the entire first half.  I guarantee that missed call was worth at least the 10 points you are talking about. :shrug:  
Click to expand...
Read my posts. I am of the belief that Golden State played well enough to win and deserved the win. 

 With that being said- I can also understand how many would believe that officiating did play a part in Houston unraveling. This is an NBA thread where all topics NBA can and should be shared. Discuss the ones that you desire to respond to in a civil manner.  What is not cool is to use a herd/bullying mentality to pile on anybody that makes a prediction or thinks that officiating maybe was a factor and comments on it here. Make a point and move on- or continue a discussion in a non toolish manner.  If somebody wants to discuss NBA officiating- this is the right thread to do so. Period. That was my only point. 

 
msudaisy26 said:
Agree to disagree that in game 7 when Boston was up like 12, that it didn't cross your mind that Cleveland would lose, or that the Warriors being down 3 - 2. Down double digits in game 6 and 7 or even before game 6 when we didn't know how hurt Paul was. 
Click to expand...
Sure, if you're willing to change the argument like that. I'd concede there was some doubt.

But fast forward like 20 minutes later where they're down 4 at halftime, I felt pretty confident the fix was in.

The Warriors I was still pretty confident in when Vegas had them as -110 favorites down 17 points. I thought it looked bad but Vegas is usually spot on with that stuff.

Game 7 though, I was confident throughout. Kudos to the NBA for making this year a little more dramatic!

 
Good Posting Judge said:
Was it garbage in the 80's? I kind of remember there were two pre-eminent teams who met several times in the Finals back then as well. Or during Jordan's run? Or during the Celtics/Bill Russell run?
 

I dunno what to tell you. This is kind of how the NBA always works.
Click to expand...
Which team won a championship and had MVP’s signing with them the next season?

 
Good Posting Judge said:
Was it garbage in the 80's? I kind of remember there were two pre-eminent teams who met several times in the Finals back then as well. Or during Jordan's run? Or during the Celtics/Bill Russell run?
 

I dunno what to tell you. This is kind of how the NBA always works.
Click to expand...
I took a semester in Sports Econ and it was amazing how we could tie the contract systems to league results. And honestly what it highlighted to me is the kind of job that New England has done in the NFL. The NBA is built for dynasties to clash, and football should not be so, and yet the Pats are at the end every damn year.

It also makes me wonder if the MLB has still yet to solve their abundance of statistics, since you'd think a fairly unrestricted salary would allow you to buy the pieces necessary.

 
But there are other business decisions being made for a baseball team when it comes to money, so I know there's room for inefficiency. Still fascinating.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
jvdesigns2002 said:
Read my posts. I am of the belief that Golden State played well enough to win and deserved the win. 

 With that being said- I can also understand how many would believe that officiating did play a part in Houston unraveling. This is an NBA thread where all topics NBA can and should be shared. Discuss the ones that you desire to respond to in a civil manner.  What is not cool is to use a herd/bullying mentality to pile on anybody that makes a prediction or thinks that officiating maybe was a factor and comments on it here. Make a point and move on- or continue a discussion in a non toolish manner.  If somebody wants to discuss NBA officiating- this is the right thread to do so. Period. That was my only point. 
Click to expand...
Is this a serious response?

 
Frostillicus said:
This is interesting and I'd like to subscribe.
Click to expand...
I've been out of the game a while, but from what I understand, the Royals and Marlins would be the prime examples of this right? The "we'd like to continue making :boatloads: without spending any" model.

Admittedly, I could be taking a very old-fashioned and dated stance.

Edit: to tie it back to basketball, there have been 11 different champions since 1980. There have been 13 different MLB WS winners since 2000.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
bananafish said:
warriorsworld‏ @warriorsworld 2h2 hours ago

It was crickets about the refs blantantly rigging #### when the Rockets were in the bonus less than 75seconds into the game. And W’s best perimater defender had 3 fouls in less than 8min. Or Steph shooting Zero FTs in games 6/7.

Word.
Click to expand...
That's just because Curry is a little tiny baby man who is afraid to drive the lane and get fouled.

 
bananafish said:
Marcus Thompson‏Verified account @ThompsonScribe 27m27 minutes ago

This is interesting. Per @nbastats ... Curry's 81 drives was 3rd among all players in Conference Finals, behind Harden (144), LeBron (108). Despite getting just 2 FTAs off those drives, he scored the 3rd-most points off drives because he shot 61.7 percent on them.
Click to expand...
Well, this just proves Frosty right. Refs couldn't see Curry 'mongst the timbers.

 
I'm going to check out Gm1 of the Finals and that will probably be it for me. The only thing anywhere near as unpleasant as watching the Kang pad his glory is seeing the Dubs only play as good as they have to. After G1West proved to the Warriors they could do what they wanted with the Rockets, they set about to amuse themselves by beating the Rockets at their own game. The resulting isoball retrothon was even worse than their ho-hum act last year, but at least it gave the league & networks the fuller card they wanted and hopefully raised the cap enough so the Green can afford to keep Smaaaat AND Baynes. Can't imagine of what bored shaming of George Hill, LNance Jr & the medieval catapult that is Kyle Korver their Finals strategy will consist. At least the Celts play the same kind, if not quality, of ball.

 
Warriors are about to win their 3rd title in 4 years.

But people forget that the Orlando Magic have only been in existence since 1989.

 
bananafish said:
Marcus Thompson‏Verified account @ThompsonScribe 27m27 minutes ago

This is interesting. Per @nbastats ... Curry's 81 drives was 3rd among all players in Conference Finals, behind Harden (144), LeBron (108). Despite getting just 2 FTAs off those drives, he scored the 3rd-most points off drives because he shot 61.7 percent on them.
Click to expand...
Come on, you can prove anything with stats.

 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

rockaction
  • Locked
Argumentum Ad Personam
Replies
26
Views
829
rockaction
rockaction
GregR
Greg's Useless Trivia #50 - 100 questions (75 greatest hits, 25 new)
Replies
19
Views
3K
GregR
GregR
BobbyLayne
The 25 Greatest Films of the 21st Century So Far
2 3 4
Replies
155
Views
12K
El Floppo
El Floppo

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 5 (members: 0, guests: 5)
Back
Top