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2017-18 NBA (Playoffs): A gasping, wheezing thread begs message board poster arguing how Jordan never lost a Finals to just let it die in peace (4 Viewers)

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Synthesizer said:
So you're saying they had a 64% chance to take the lead?  Yeah I'm still going to keep that in the bad stretch of events.
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Yeah, who knew that putting an 80% FT shooter on the line with the game on the line was such a liability?

 
shadyridr said:
If he signed with the Warriors, would there really be any different result next year? Finals will be Warriors over Boston regardless of where he signs (except Houston)
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???

There's a handful of teams in the East that would be favoured over Boston if he signed with them.

 
tommyGunZ said:
See, I think he showed remarkable restraint and focus not actually strangling Henny God on the spot.  

The guy is human. Smith's "take it back" play is one of, if not THE most boneheaded plays in the history of the Finals. Expecting LeBron to immediately divest himself of emotional disappointment at such a ridiculous mental lapse is a bit much, IMO.  
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But that's what great leaders do. 

Sure I can understand if LBJ wants to strangle or pout or be disappointed. That's a completely reasonable response for anyone.

However, is that what a great leader does? Nope and LBJ is the team's leader. I think it's a valid criticism when the best player looks defeated with OT left to play. 

LBJ the player did everything he could do to put that team in a position to win, but LBJ the leader failed them.

 
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shadyridr said:
The same team that beat Philly without irving and Hayward. Yeah I wouldn't quote Vegas odds 
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Cleveland beat Boston.  I don't think it's an automatic gimme that Boston beats Cleve with Irving and Hayward.  If I had to guess, I'd say Boston WOULD beat Cleve if they had them, but it wouldn't have been a sweep.

Philly without Lebron >>>>>>>>>>>> Cleveland without Lebron.
Philly with Lebron >>>>>>>>> Cleveland with Lebron.

 
Charlie Harper said:
But that's what great leaders do. 

Sure I can understand if LBJ wants to strangle or pout or be disappointed. That's a completely reasonable response for anyone.

However, is that what a great leader does? Nope and LBJ is the team's leader. I think it's a valid criticism when the best player looks defeated with OT left to play. 

LBJ the player did everything he could do to put that team in a position to win, but LBJ the leader failed them.
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What, exactly, was he going to tell them at that point that was going to make them not useless and/or changed the outcome of overtime? And remember, these are veteran players, with multiple playoff runs already under their belts. I really don't think the difference between them winning or losing that one came down to LeBron's failure to make those guys feel  o.k. about blowing the game in regulation. If they can't pull themselves out of it on their own, two adults, no pep talk he could deliver is going to fix things.

 
Gr00vus said:
What, exactly, was he going to tell them at that point that was going to make them not useless and/or changed the outcome of overtime? And remember, these are veteran players, with multiple playoff runs already under their belts. I really don't think the difference between them winning or losing that one came down to LeBron's failure to make those guys feel  o.k. about blowing the game in regulation. If they can't pull themselves out of it on their own, two adults, no pep talk he could deliver is going to fix things.
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I don't think James-Smith relation is adult-adult though.  It feels like James is the adult and the rest of his team are children.  

James was 0/4 for two points in OT.  Obviously he played 43 grueling minutes and it could be attributed to fatigue, but at the same time, he didn't produce anything in OT to dispel the possibility he gave up on his team.

 
To be clear, I think Lebron could have handled that better in the moment.  But  :lmao:  at the overreaction to this.  He has busted his ### for these guys for 4 years.  One of his guys has an all-time brain fart so Lebron sits there and waits for the game to resume.  Then the narrative suddenly becomes "LBJ the leader failed them"   :lmao:

 
There’s so much Philly sports coverage right now, you’d think they would use the opportunity to fire Colangelo while no one’s looking.

 
Synthesizer said:
To be clear, I think Lebron could have handled that better in the moment.  But  :lmao:  at the overreaction to this.  He has busted his ### for these guys for 4 years.  One of his guys has an all-time brain fart so Lebron sits there and waits for the game to resume.  Then the narrative suddenly becomes "LBJ the leader failed them"   :lmao:
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That isn't sitting there waiting for the game to resume.

 
Deamon said:
I think adding Lebron to a team would have more of an impact than adding Irving+Hayward.  In the playoffs, anyways.
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The last three 76ers losses were by 10 combined points.  They were big favorites to win the series - sometimes #### happens.  The series was much closer than the W/L indicates.

 
tjnc09 said:
The last three 76ers losses were by 10 combined points.  They were big favorites to win the series - sometimes #### happens.  The series was much closer than the W/L indicates.
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For sure.  I don't think they were 'big favourites' to win the series but I don't remember the exact odds.  Obviously vegas odds don't mean everything, but I find it hard to believe that most impartial fans would pick Boston over a Lebron-Philly team next year in a playoff series.

 
shadyridr said:
The same team that beat Philly without irving and Hayward. Yeah I wouldn't quote Vegas odds 
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That isn't how it works, it might work that way, but the Warriors could have easily lost this year to the Rockets and the Celtics could have lost to the Bucks. Plus we have no idea who will go where, any big trades or what rookies might come in and make a big splash. 

 
Charlie Harper said:
But that's what great leaders do. 

Sure I can understand if LBJ wants to strangle or pout or be disappointed. That's a completely reasonable response for anyone.

However, is that what a great leader does? Nope and LBJ is the team's leader. I think it's a valid criticism when the best player looks defeated with OT left to play. 

LBJ the player did everything he could do to put that team in a position to win, but LBJ the leader failed them.
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I love that you are staying on brand.

 
Charlie Harper said:
But that's what great leaders do. 

Sure I can understand if LBJ wants to strangle or pout or be disappointed. That's a completely reasonable response for anyone.

However, is that what a great leader does? Nope and LBJ is the team's leader. I think it's a valid criticism when the best player looks defeated with OT left to play. 

LBJ the player did everything he could do to put that team in a position to win, but LBJ the leader failed them.
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He didn't look defeated; he looked pissed off. 

 
tjnc09 said:
James was 0/4 for two points in OT.  Obviously he played 43 grueling minutes and it could be attributed to fatigue, but at the same time, he didn't produce anything in OT to dispel the possibility he gave up on his team.
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That doesn't even make sense. 

He took 4 shots in 5 minutes of OT (which would extrapolate to 38 shots a game). That is not giving up.  Giving up would be going out there and taking no shots and looking passive.  

 
msudaisy26 said:
That isn't how it works, it might work that way, but the Warriors could have easily lost this year to the Rockets and the Celtics could have lost to the Bucks. Plus we have no idea who will go where, any big trades or what rookies might come in and make a big splash. 
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http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-heat/fl-sp-miami-heat-lebron-jones-s20180603-story.html

The 76ers price specifically includes James.  Every other assumption into the price is based off of today.  No other trade/rookie will nearly have as much effect on the future prices as James does.  The book is protecting themselves against the top handful of James destinations (with a lot due to public perception)

 
tjnc09 said:
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-heat/fl-sp-miami-heat-lebron-jones-s20180603-story.html

The 76ers price specifically includes James.  Every other assumption into the price is based off of today.  No other trade/rookie will nearly have as much effect on the future prices as James does.  The book is protecting themselves against the top handful of James destinations (with a lot due to public perception)
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I agree, I just don't believe that it is a lock that the Celtics and Warriors are meeting in the finals next year unless James signs with the Rockets as his oriinal post suggested. 

 
msudaisy26 said:
That isn't how it works, it might work that way, but the Warriors could have easily lost this year to the Rockets and the Celtics could have lost to the Bucks. Plus we have no idea who will go where, any big trades or what rookies might come in and make a big splash. 
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I think it's cute how NbA fans defend other teams having a chance every year. I guess ill bounce from this thread.

 
Deamon said:
For sure.  I don't think they were 'big favourites' to win the series but I don't remember the exact odds.  Obviously vegas odds don't mean everything, but I find it hard to believe that most impartial fans would pick Boston over a Lebron-Philly team next year in a playoff series.
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Ok i can see philly with lebron but you said handful of teams in the east and thats a stretch and you know it.

 
Gr00vus said:
What, exactly, was he going to tell them at that point that was going to make them not useless and/or changed the outcome of overtime? And remember, these are veteran players, with multiple playoff runs already under their belts. I really don't think the difference between them winning or losing that one came down to LeBron's failure to make those guys feel  o.k. about blowing the game in regulation. If they can't pull themselves out of it on their own, two adults, no pep talk he could deliver is going to fix things.
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Everything you said is correct, but think about it this way....did James actions help his team at all?

Best case....sitting their pouting..did nothing to change the outcome.

Worst case....it torpedoed his team's confidence and/or didn't refocus his teammates who just lost the game.

A motivation/upbeat LBJ at that moment in time has only positive benefits....can't think of a single negative. Acting the way he did potentially impacted his teammates negatively.

 
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msudaisy26 said:
I agree, I just don't believe that it is a lock that the Celtics and Warriors are meeting in the finals next year unless James signs with the Rockets as his oriinal post suggested. 
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I do. Feel free to bump next year. The finals have been warriors cavs four years in a row. This year boston wouldve made it if not for the injuries to irving and hayward. Next year boston-warriors is a lock unless lebron goes to houston. Mark it down now. The NBA is a joke. The athletes are amazing, the sport itself is a joy to watch, the offseason is the best of all the leagues but the final outcome is known by everyone well in advance.

 
shadyridr said:
Ok i can see philly with lebron but you said handful of teams in the east and thats a stretch and you know it.
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Was mainly talking about Philly.  I still think teams like Milwaukee, Philly, Indiana, Miami, Washington would all be pretty close to Boston at full strength.  I think you're underestimating how bad Cleve would be without Lebron.  If he can take THAT team to the finals, he can take the handful of other teams that are better than a Lebron-less Cleveland.

 
Deamon said:
Was mainly talking about Philly.  I still think teams like Milwaukee, Philly, Indiana, Miami, Washington would all be pretty close to Boston at full strength.  I think you're underestimating how bad Cleve would be without Lebron.  If he can take THAT team to the finals, he can take the handful of other teams that are better than a Lebron-less Cleveland.
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He took THAT team to the finals vs a depleted Eastern region. Hes amazing but the East sucked. Philly is an upcoming team but teams never win their first year in the playoffs in the NBA. Boston wouldve destroyed them with Irving and Hayward. The Raptors winning the #1 seed tells you all you need to know about the East.

 
shadyridr said:
I do. Feel free to bump next year. The finals have been warriors cavs four years in a row. This year boston wouldve made it if not for the injuries to irving and hayward. Next year boston-warriors is a lock unless lebron goes to houston. Mark it down now. The NBA is a joke. The athletes are amazing, the sport itself is a joy to watch, the offseason is the best of all the leagues but the final outcome is known by everyone well in advance.
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Again, saying it's a 'lock' that Boston beats a Lebron-led-Sixers team is stupid.  I agree it is so predictable each year, but I don't see Boston as this magic team that is a lock to meet in the finals.  Kyrie could get hurt again in which case they likely won't make it.  They were lucky to get through round 1 of the playoffs.  The predictable thing you mention is true.  It will be Lebron vs Golden State.

 
shadyridr said:
I do. Feel free to bump next year. The finals have been warriors cavs four years in a row. This year boston wouldve made it if not for the injuries to irving and hayward. Next year boston-warriors is a lock unless lebron goes to houston. Mark it down now. The NBA is a joke. The athletes are amazing, the sport itself is a joy to watch, the offseason is the best of all the leagues but the final outcome is known by everyone well in advance.
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You are crazy to think LeBron on some other east team doesn't have a chance against Boston (especially Philadelphia)

 
shadyridr said:
He took THAT team to the finals vs a depleted Eastern region. Hes amazing but the East sucked. Philly is an upcoming team but teams never win their first year in the playoffs in the NBA. Boston wouldve destroyed them with Irving and Hayward. The Raptors winning the #1 seed tells you all you need to know about the East.
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Exactly, the east is awful.  And Boston barely made it through round 1 of it. 

Boston is good, and likely will be even better with those guys back.  But the East unfortunately goes through Lebron.  For you to say Boston is a "lock" to beat Philly even if they have Lebron is nuts.  We possibly won't ever find out though.

 
shadyridr said:
All one has to do is search this thread. Most here loved the trade for Cleveland. I was one of the few who loved it for Boston. Just search if youre bored. 
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Am not THAT bored.  But I'll take your word for it.  That surprises me though that everyone in here thought Cleve won that trade. 

 
if i were a GM in Atlanta, Orlando, Sacramento or New York i wouldn't even give Lebron a sniff at the vet mininum. guy just doesn't want it badly enough.

 
shadyridr said:
People also told me I was crazy when I said Irving for IT plus was a steal for BOS.
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lol who exactly told you otherwise?  A 5'5" guard who gets bum hunted in the postseason has no value in the NBA.

There are probably less than five players who can change the whole dynamic of the league and James is one of them.

 
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