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2017-18 NBA (Playoffs): A gasping, wheezing thread begs message board poster arguing how Jordan never lost a Finals to just let it die in peace (1 Viewer)

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Anarchy99 said:
Not sure if this is a legit post, but . . .

1) At the moment, he's not available to trade. He would have to opt in to another year on his contract and waive his no trade clause.
2) Or he would have to do a sign and trade (likely for super max money).
3) If you are a contender, your draft picks aren't worth much to begin with (and you have to retain at least one draft pick every other draft).
4) You would likely pay a small fortune in luxury tax, because odds are you are already over the luxury tax, so in addition to paying LBJ his $40M, you will likely have to pay another $20M in luxury tax.

If you have workarounds for all of that, I'd love to hear your plan.
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Was not looking or offering a specific plan and  am well aware of the rules.

Just wondering what you guys think adding LBJ would be worth draft pick wise for a team like the Spurs. People have said they'd have to attach a first rounder to Gasol to get his contract off books. I'd assume they'd have to offer another pick to clear some space, fill.roster, etc....

Basically what should the Spurs give up to get LBJ?

 
Woj says Bryan and Barbara have both gone through multi-hour interviews, and that ownership will take the next 24-48 hours to evaluate if they should keep Colangelo. Their main question is if they can separate Colangelo from a family member.

 
I hope Colangelo somehow survives this. The hilarity and memes that will extend to this offseason and into next year would be fantastic.

 
In the aftermath, James was criticized for not being more vocal and taking on a leadership role in the huddle. The Warriors scored the first seven points of the overtime and ended up winning by 10.

"I don't care. I don't care at all (about the criticism)," James said. "We're in the NBA Finals. I mean, how much more picking up of teammates do you want me to do?"

 
Charlie Harper said:
Was not looking or offering a specific plan and  am well aware of the rules.

Just wondering what you guys think adding LBJ would be worth draft pick wise for a team like the Spurs. People have said they'd have to attach a first rounder to Gasol to get his contract off books. I'd assume they'd have to offer another pick to clear some space, fill.roster, etc....

Basically what should the Spurs give up to get LBJ?
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Last off-season, an oft-injured Kyrie was moved for a banged up 2nd team All NBA Player, a high lottery pick, a starter, a project, and a second round pick. 

I know you are trying to keep as many good players and assets on SA while giving up as little as possible, but IMO to make the trade somewhat even it would take Kawhi, a starter, and probably a first and a second pick. 

Not sure what the incentive would be for CLE to give LeBron away for spare parts, bloated contracts, and a bunch of picks that are likely to be in the 20’s over and over again. 

Put another way, another team would likely over a package better than the one I think you are trying to put together. 

Maybe CLE at that point would be desperate and have no leverage and would take pennies on the dollar for James, but they got a decent take for Kyrie, who is half the player Leabron is. 

 
Deamon said:
In the aftermath, James was criticized for not being more vocal and taking on a leadership role in the huddle. The Warriors scored the first seven points of the overtime and ended up winning by 10.

"I don't care. I don't care at all (about the criticism)," James said. "We're in the NBA Finals. I mean, how much more picking up of teammates do you want me to do?"
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Totally agree.  If he can't count on his guys to just simply hit a free throw and know what the score is there comes a point where it's just a lost cause.  Every single person in the world knew Warriors would win as soon as regulation time ran out.  

 
Anarchy99 said:
Last off-season, an oft-injured Kyrie was moved for a banged up 2nd team All NBA Player, a high lottery pick, a starter, a project, and a second round pick. 

I know you are trying to keep as many good players and assets on SA while giving up as little as possible, but IMO to make the trade somewhat even it would take Kawhi, a starter, and probably a first and a second pick. 

Not sure what the incentive would be for CLE to give LeBron away for spare parts, bloated contracts, and a bunch of picks that are likely to be in the 20’s over and over again. 

Put another way, another team would likely over a package better than the one I think you are trying to put together. 

Maybe CLE at that point would be desperate and have no leverage and would take pennies on the dollar for James, but they got a decent take for Kyrie, who is half the player Leabron is. 
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Lebron can opt out of his contract and sign with any team that has enough cap space for him, correct?  I don't think Cleland has any say in it.

 
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I was going to find a picture of the four popped collars guy, but I'm kind of tired and figured I need to save my energy to carry this thread tomorrow night.

 
offdee said:
Totally agree.  If he can't count on his guys to just simply hit a free throw and know what the score is there comes a point where it's just a lost cause.  Every single person in the world knew Warriors would win as soon as regulation time ran out.  
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What a great leader giving up on his teammates.

 
Synthesizer said:
Lebron can opt out of his contract and sign with any team that has enough cap space for him, correct?  I don't think Cleland has any say in it.
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The question that was being discussed was what a contending team without cap space to sign James as a free agent would have to give up in a trade with CLE to acquire him. LeBron would either need to opt in based on his current deal. Or opt out and sign a new deal with the Cavs. Clearly he would have to do one of those to be traded. 

That’s where the conversation really started (James signs with CLE) and the debate began on what a team would have to trade to the Cavs to get LeBron. 

 
Deamon said:
In the aftermath, James was criticized for not being more vocal and taking on a leadership role in the huddle. The Warriors scored the first seven points of the overtime and ended up winning by 10.

"I don't care. I don't care at all (about the criticism)," James said. "We're in the NBA Finals. I mean, how much more picking up of teammates do you want me to do?"
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Is that a real quote?  If so then :rolleyes:  

 
Ghost Rider said:
Saying that was a bit too brutally honest, but I can't disagree with what he said. 
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No one can disagree with what he said, but this why a lot of people dislike LeBron. You shouldn't say, it doesn't matter that everyone knows it, and this isn't the 1st time he has had done stuff like this. 

 
This may not matter but Lebron did not come up with those words on his own.  He was just answering the reporters question using the reporters words.  The exact question he was responding to was:

"you're being criticized for not picking up your teammates..."

 
NewlyRetired said:
This may not matter but Lebron did not come up with those words on his own.  He was just answering the reporters question using the reporters words.  The exact question he was responding to was:

"you're being criticized for not picking up your teammates..."
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Well, that does make it a little more palatable to me.  I still think a more well spoken professional athelte and team leader would rephrase the answer to not so condescending and disrepectful to his teammates.

 
Bull Dozier said:
Well, that does make it a little more palatable to me.  I still think a more well spoken professional athelte and team leader would rephrase the answer to not so condescending and disrepectful to his teammates.
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His teammates deserve to be called out in public by Lebron, they are not holding up their end.  They need a fire lit under their collective asses and if they dont like it perhaps they will step up to turn the heat down.

 
Players can call out players when they have the clout. Jake Arrieta just ripped all the young players on the Phillies to the media for not hitting good in San Fran. Called out several by name. They came back last night with 6 runs off 9 hits. 

Some times stars need to call out their team to get their heads out of their asses.

 
dutch said:
His teammates deserve to be called out in public by Lebron, they are not holding up their end.  They need a fire lit under their collective asses and if they dont like it perhaps they will step up to turn the heat down.
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Well if you think that's the best way to motivate an athlete then that's your opinion.  I'm not in the mindset that that is the best way to do it though.  Guess we'll see tonight.

 
Insein said:
Players can call out players when they have the clout. Jake Arrieta just ripped all the young players on the Phillies to the media for not hitting good in San Fran. Called out several by name. They came back last night with 6 runs off 9 hits. 

Some times stars need to call out their team to get their heads out of their asses.
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I believe the great Bret Myers once did the same. 

 
msudaisy26 said:
No one can disagree with what he said, but this why a lot of people dislike LeBron. You shouldn't say, it doesn't matter that everyone knows it, and this isn't the 1st time he has had done stuff like this. 
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It's still arrogant.  Suggesting he's been picking them up the whole time.  He laughs off getting criticized, says he doesn't care, acts like it's undeserved, then in the next sentence says something that is surely to be criticized again. 

 
I love the calling them out angle though. Like the other Cavalier players have just been dogging the whole time. They just aren't very good, they are an older team.

 
msudaisy26 said:
I love the calling them out angle though. Like the other Cavalier players have just been dogging the whole time. They just aren't very good, they are an older team.
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Ya I don't think its a lack of effort.  It's a lack of talent.  And Lebron is a big reason for that lack of talent.

 
If a professional athlete is so soft t hat some public criticism by the best player in the league is gonna make them cry then they should just quit now and stop stealing the money the team is paying them.  

 
dutch said:
If a professional athlete is so soft t hat some public criticism by the best player in the league is gonna make them cry then they should just quit now and stop stealing the money the team is paying them.  
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Different people respond and get motivated in different ways.  If you're a leader and you are unable/unwilling to use your brain to figure that out and lead the way that's needed, you shouldn't be a leader.  It's not some black and white 'toughen up you spoiled athlete' message that is the most effective.

If Lebron's way of ignoring them, giving them tough love, telling them to smarten up, etc works, then great.  That was the right way to lead these guys.  If not, then it wasn't.  It's up to him as the team's leader/GM to bring the best out of his teammates... the way other great's have in the past.

 
I have no qualms with LeBron here. This is the 4th year in a row they've been to the finals. A pat on the back and an attaboy isn't going to do anything. This is the NBA ####### finals. Suck it up princesses.

 
Insein said:
I have no qualms with LeBron here. This is the 4th year in a row they've been to the finals. A pat on the back and an attaboy isn't going to do anything. This is the NBA ####### finals. Suck it up princesses.
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Again, the "suck it up princesses" is a very one dimensional way of looking at it.  He's the one who picked these teammates, he can't complain about them.  He's got to make them better and his way of motivating them has to match how they get motivated.  Not everyone gets motivated the same way or reacts well to 'tough love'.  That doesn't make them any better or worse... just different.

 
Michael Jordan was notorious for kicking his teammates asses and for challenging them.  Watch a game from the 90's and youll see Jordan get in the face of any one who effed up in some stupid way, and this includes Pippen who Jordan rode hard and put away wet on multiple occasions.

 
I think if Cavs lose tonight, it pretty much seals the deal that he won't be in Cleve next year.

Man it's gonna take a lot for me to start liking this guy if he comes to Philly.  Will be harder than it was to stop hating Chip.

 
dutch said:
Michael Jordan was notorious for kicking his teammates asses and for challenging them.  Watch a game from the 90's and youll see Jordan get in the face of any one who effed up in some stupid way, and this includes Pippen who Jordan rode hard and put away wet on multiple occasions.
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Yep.  Have times changed though?  Are people softer?  Needing a smarter/different way of motivation now?

 
Deamon said:
Yep.  Have times changed though?  Are people softer?  Needing a smarter/different way of motivation now?
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Lebron has willed this Cavs team to the finals and been to 8 straight finals with various teammates, Im pretty sure he knows how to motivate and lead.

 
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Deamon said:
Didn't work before OT.  We'll see tonight if it worked in the few days off.
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Worked for 8 straight seasons, and as you said this team is lacking in talent so whether carrot or stick it is doubtful the overall outcome would be different.  You can use a single game as the barometer but when I look at Lebrons career I se a succesful leader.

 
dutch said:
Worked for 8 straight seasons, and as you said this team is lacking in talent so whether carrot or stick it is doubtful the overall outcome would be different.  You can use a single game as the barometer but when I look at Lebrons career I se a succesful leader.
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No, Talent is what worked for 8 straight seasons.  He was on some pretty talented heat teams.  And is an absolutely amazing player himself.  He's always gotten by on his talent.  He has twice the natural basketball talent/ability that Jordan had.  He'll never be the leader Jordan was IMO.

 
Deamon said:
No, Talent is what worked for 8 straight seasons.  He was on some pretty talented heat teams.  And is an absolutely amazing player himself.  He's always gotten by on his talent.  He has twice the natural basketball talent/ability that Jordan had.  He'll never be the leader Jordan was IMO.
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meh, fork in the road; you go left and I'll go right.  Enjoy the games.

 
Deamon said:
I think if Cavs lose tonight, it pretty much seals the deal that he won't be in Cleve next year.

Man it's gonna take a lot for me to start liking this guy if he comes to Philly.  Will be harder than it was to stop hating Chip.
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Never going to understand this mindset. 

"I don't want the best player to ever play the game on my team because he's mean to his teammates when they do dumb things."

 
Insein said:
Never going to understand this mindset. 

"I don't want the best player to ever play the game on my team because he's mean to his teammates when they do dumb things."
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Lol you are suggesting this is the only knock against lebron. How he acts towards his dumb teammates barely registers on the scale of reasons most people dislike him. We don't need to beat a dead horse on all the reasons people don't like him, but don't suggest this is the reason he's disliked. 

 
I hope to God that by some miracle LeBron decides Philly is his next destination because personally, I'd like to see my team in the NBA Finals with a chance to win for the next 2-4 years.

And he can yell at Robert Covington and Ben Simmons and Markel Fults as much as he wants if he gets us there.

 
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