Also never once said I didn't want him on my team? I do want him in Philly (barely, but if I got to choose I'd say yes). Just said it's going to be hard for me to start liking the guy.
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2017-18 NBA (Playoffs): A gasping, wheezing thread begs message board poster arguing how Jordan never lost a Finals to just let it die in peace (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Capella
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Don't think it will take a miracle. It's the most likely outcome. And yes, I'd like us in the finals too and lebron gives us the best chance at that. Still don't like him though.
Bull Dozier
Footballguy
A lot of this has already been hashed out, but wanted to add my own thoughts. I don't think it is an issue of being soft, it is an issue of interpersonal relationships. That's what sports teams are about. Teammates don't have to be best friends. Teammates don't always have to be nice to each others. Teammates do have to respect each other. Once that is gone, it is hard to get past and achieve success. Maybe this is a breaking point. Maybe it was already gone (and I'm talking both ways). I don't know, but I don't think these kinds of comments are helpful at the most critical juncture of the season. Do they make sense during a mid season swoon? Sure, I can get behind them then. But there is a reason for "playoff beards" and the like. Once you get to the post season, it is one for all and all for one typically.
It's not about giving an "attaboy." It is about having each others back. I feel like he had JR's back in the post game press conference he walked out on, obviously being baited to throw JR under the bus and he refused to do so. Other than his "be better tomorrow" comment (reporters have a job too), I totally agreed with his answers and refusal to be baited. But, saying publically he doesn't have to carry his team more than he already does is drawing a line between "me" and "them."
Honest question, because I don't know. While Jordan trashed his teammates in practices, and maybe even huddles during game, did he do it during press conferences? I seem to remember him having an extremely polished and possibly too perfect (ie fake) media persona, so I can't imagine Jordan doing the same to a teammate in the media. Correct me if I am wrong.
JuniorGong
Footballguy
Larry Bird called his teammates sissies after Game 3 in the 1984 Finals, McHale responded by clotheslining that dork Rambis. Bird was credited for great leadership and potentially turning the series.
Apparently that was good leadership in the '80's but I've been told things are different today.
Tau837
Footballguy
Bird said: “We played like a bunch of sissies.” He didn’t separate himself from his teammates. Not the same.
That being said, I don’t have a problem with Lebron’s comments.
Mmm, I was referencing his in game chew outs that were on display for all the tv viewing world to see. Jordan thought nothing of getting in the grill of one of his teammates on the court or in the huddle.
mr. furley
Footballguy
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Exactly. Yes things change in 35 yrs. Also, lebron puts himself above others and is notorious for using the word "I" instead of "we".
Great post. People who are praising lebrons leadership are missing a lot of cues. He isn't putting himself on the same level as them. Lebron drove Kyrie out to the point he didn't want to play with him. I don't think Lebron really embraces the "team" atmosphere. Do you think Steph would ever act like that in a huddle if one of his teammates messed up? I don't.
Short Corner
Footballguy
Bunch of skirts up in here.
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Frostillicus
Footballguy
Frostillicus
Footballguy
Steph is a sissy who is afraid of his stronger teammates and won't say anything because he doesn't want to get punched and break his ankle again.
Bull Dozier
Footballguy
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Admittedly I'm mildly biased as a UNC fan and thus a Duke hater, but anyone who watched/read about the Kyrie/LeBron dynamic play out and thinks the problem was LeBron "driving Kyrie out" is full of it.
At one point earlier in his career people criticized LeBron for being too unselfish on the court and having too much fun with his teammates with silly antics. People wanted him to be more of an assertive and critical hard### type leader, like Jordan and Kobe. The fact that people are now making the exact opposite argument tells you pretty much all you need to know about both of the arguments.
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Short Corner
Footballguy
Haters gonna hate.
Admittedly I'm mildly biased as a UNC fan, but anyone who watched/read about the Kyrie/LeBron dynamic play out and thinks the problem was LeBron "driving Kyrie out" is full of it.
At one point earlier in his career people criticized LeBron for being too unselfish on the court and having too much fun with his teammates with silly antics. People wanted him to be more of an assertive and critical hard### type leader, like Jordan and Kobe. The fact that people are now making the exact opposite argument tells you pretty much all you need to know about both of the arguments.
Yes you are biased as a unc fan. Kyrie didn't want to play with Lebron. Lebron saying he was mad he got traded is simply hilarious.
Admittedly I'm mildly biased as a UNC fan, but anyone who watched/read about the Kyrie/LeBron dynamic play out and thinks the problem was LeBron "driving Kyrie out" is full of it.
At one point earlier in his career people criticized LeBron for being too unselfish on the court and having too much fun with his teammates with silly antics. People wanted him to be more of an assertive and critical hard### type leader, like Jordan and Kobe. The fact that people are now making the exact opposite argument tells you pretty much all you need to know about both of the arguments.
There's a balance between being hard nosed, and making your teammates feel like they're a part of it. I don't think he's found that balance.
Again, who is to blame that his teammates suck? Is it their fault they're not very good? They're just not very good. And lebron pushing for that tt contract, and many other things, put them in that situation. It's like a kid picking all the chunky kids for his relay team and then screaming at them for not being fast enough.
Tom Hagen
Footballguy
JuniorGong
Footballguy
True, he said we but Larry put up 30 points and nobody else on the team scored more than 16. While he said we, it was widely interpreted as him calling out his teammates.
Synthesizer
Footballguy
Disagree.
His most talented teammate demanded a trade. And management received basically nothing in return that would help them win this year.
Oh wait, unless everyone still expects him to be general manger, coach, playmaker, motivational speaker, etc etc etc.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
You're probably right. My biased, irrational hatred of Kyrie Irving is preventing me from seeing the entirety of LeBron James' career and his public and private interactions with his teammates as clearly as you, a man who obviously has no axe to grind.
I captained a team at a fairly high level but that's besides the point and doesn't make me any more an expert on lebrons leadership skills than anyone else. Never said it did.
I don't get your point here though. Everyone in here has their opinions about how players should play, act, or think. No one is any different.
In fact, I've said the opposite. I don't know how he should lead his team. I don't have the slightest clue if Jr and others respond best to tough love, or encouragement, or what. That's lebrons job to figure out as the leader of the team, not mine. I just think it shows that it hasn't really worked by how they responded in that OT and in game 2. Think he needs to try something else.
Weebs210
Footballguy
Why did he demand a trade? Because he's a selfish diva? (Is what the bronsexuals will say)
Or because lebron didn't get along with him/lead him? Either way, it's been his choice to be the GM of this team. It's his roster, he's gotta deal with it.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
A true leader would never let the greatest collection of talent in the history of the NBA win two home playoff games in a row. Inexcusable.
Short Corner
Footballguy
Bobcat10
Footballguy
Youre blowing my statement out of proportion. And acting like I'm the only one who is critical of his leadership before OT. It's been well documented by many analysts (I guess all of which who are also wrong, right?)
Short Corner
Footballguy
No he'd never bury his hands in his face and refuse to speak to his teammates. Gs is just the better team. That doesn't automatically make lebron a great leader. It's like you guys refuse to see a single fault in his game, personality, or leadership skills and crucify anyone who suggests otherwise.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Can you name someone who would be dealing with it better? I mean, not just players now, i mean any other player ever??
Which player in the history of ever would be doing a better job overall?
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
I don't know what you mean. You've convinced me, even without the citations to universally respected basketball minds like Stephen A. Smith and Skip Bayless.
Not sure what's meant by this, I've been pretty modest on my assessment and never said I knew more than lebron. I said I disagreed with his leadership skills. Many others have as well.
Bobcat10
Footballguy
I love how everyone else gets a free pass in this discussion. Coach Lue should have benched Smith right then for the OT. Or, some of you probably think Coach Lebron should have benched Smith.
You're right. Lebron is the greatest leader in NBA history. That's what you're insinuating with that statement.
Short Corner
Footballguy
Dude came in to the series knowing he had to put up 4 historic games to pull off a championship. He does so in game 1 and is sabotaged by an overturned call, a choke at the stripe, and one of the biggest blunders we have ever seen in sports. I'm a GS fan but I cut the guy some slack. He has to reset himself mentally at that point. Sorry Lebron you are going to have to put up 5 historic performances to pull this off. Maybe 6.
Bull Dozier
Footballguy
I don't give Lue a pass. I definitely disagree with those who say Lue deserves more credit than he is getting.
Short Corner
Footballguy
Short Corner
Footballguy
How does one disagree with his leadership? Because I don't think his body language after regulation was that of a leader. Many people in here agreed. Many analysts agreed. You're acting like I'm the only one that had a problem with it.
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