2017 New York Jets: Robby Anderson has been arrested in Florida for the second straight offseason. This is why we can't have nice things. (1 Viewer)

[TLEF316]

Also as well as Adams is playing I wanted Watson to be the pick (even took him on this site's annual fan mock draft) and seeing him almost beat the Pats in Foxboro and then light up the Titans with 57 points the next week is not making me feel too great.

At least Adams is playing at a high level which does console me some but obviously franchise QB is >>>> a great strong safety.

This. I was SCREAMING for the Jets to take Watson. I thought his game was being unfairly picked apart during the run up to the draft and just couldn't find anyone who could give me a reason why the guy wasn't a slam dunk top 5 pick.

Adams obviously looks awesome, but a top 10 QB is still worth much more than even a hall of fame safety (especially with today's rules). And god forbid Watson becomes truly elite. You'll really need to talk me off the ledge at that point.

So yeah, this season sucks. At least Darnold isn't lighting it up. Hard to judge Rosen as the team around him is so mediocre.

 

[Fariq]

This. I was SCREAMING for the Jets to take Watson. I thought his game was being unfairly picked apart during the run up to the draft and just couldn't find anyone who could give me a reason why the guy wasn't a slam dunk top 5 pick.

Adams obviously looks awesome, but a top 10 QB is still worth much more than even a hall of fame safety (especially with today's rules). And god forbid Watson becomes truly elite. You'll really need to talk me off the ledge at that point.

So yeah, this season sucks. At least Darnold isn't lighting it up. Hard to judge Rosen as the team around him is so mediocre.

Watson got drafted 12th overall this year and he got drafted by one of them non-tankin' teams. 

 

[TLEF316]

Watson got drafted 12th overall this year and he got drafted by one of them non-tankin' teams. 

I can't explain that other than saying that 11 bad teams were stupid.

Doesn't mean the jets are doing the right thing by playing a 38 year old QB and playing for 6 wins. They're not

 

[Fariq]

Oh  no! The Jets won. What will I do with myself now? Oh, what wiiiiiillllllll I do? They have now ruined "the tank." How dare Matt Forte get the game off! The Jets should have made him play all hobbled and stuff. It would've helped "the tank." Bilal Powell and that gosh darn developing youngster Elijah McGuire were just too good. I need this all to be just perfect. Don't you people understand?!!!? I need the team to lose all the time but I also need certain guys to develop. Oh, what's that ya say? If the young guys develop in October and November, the team might start to really gel in December and win some games then? Yeah, well, that, just like, doesn't make any sense. That could not possibly happen.

I am darn certain that one guy, umm, Sam Rosen, Mason Jackson, Joshlamar Rudolph, Allen Darnold-Josh, whatever his name is, is definitely the next Johnny Unitas. I just know it. That one guy on the radio said so. 

Hey, yo, Fariq- The Jets do everything wrong so I am certain what they are doing now is wrong and I'm just going to complain about everything anyway no matter what and if you try to talk any sense to me I am just going to say you are a condescending twerp. 

 

[Fariq]

I can't explain that other than saying that 11 bad teams were stupid.

Doesn't mean the jets are doing the right thing by playing a 38 year old QB and playing for 6 wins. They're not

If your whole approach here is the Jets need to tank to draft a QB at the top of the 2018 draft, then why the hell does Petty or Hackenberg have to play in 2017? You have already personally decided neither is the answer. So are you saying here that McCown is too good and the team needs to play Petty or Hackenberg to basically purposefully lose? Also, since when did McCown turn into prime Peyton Manning where Jets fans are worried he is too good and will cause the Jets to win too often?

I think there are people in this thread who are going way overboard here.

I still see a 4-12 team that will end up with a top four pick in the draft with the firepower to trade up a spot or two. 

 

[Dr. Octopus]

So are you saying here that McCown is too good and the team needs to play Petty or Hackenberg to basically purposefully lose?

Maybe if you actually read what everyone is saying instead of trying to be the "voice of reason" (in your own warped way) - you'd see that people want to see Petty or Hack play so that we can see what we have in them. If they were 3-2 right now with Petty or Hack having been the QB all season, I'd be pretty psyched right now and would want to see them keep it up. If the Jets finish 6-10 and we don't get to see each young QB get at least 3 games in, this season is truly a disaster. I like McCown and I'm glad he's having success for his own benefit but at 37 we are receiving no benefit by trotting him out there. He's played ok, but let's face it he's made some bad mistakes that could have cost the Jets wins if the Browns and Jags didn't hand the games back to them.

Right now the team is 3-2 which looks good on paper but those three wins came against Cutler, Bortles and Kizer with two of those teams giving the game to the Jets with their own incompetence. I have no confidence in this team winning more than two more games all season with the schedule getting much tougher coming up.

At this point, I'll surely be pulling for them to beat the Patriots, but in my head I know that even though the Pats are not playing well, it's a long shot for the Jets to pull that out.

Sure it's easy to point out the successes of the QBs that fell down in Round 1 and turned out great like Rodgers, Watson or Carr but there's also a lot of Weedons, Manziels, and Manuels in that mix. Being in position to take the QB you have ranked the highest instead of settling is a plus - even though sure it's possible that QB can bust as well. I'd rather take that chance than to be stuck in the 5-8 win range.

At this point it's meaningless to even discuss it because there's just too many bad teams that will not even make it to 3 wins, so we may as well just let the chips fall where they may and see where it  stands at the end of the season. If they do go 5-11 or 6-10 and we don't get to see Petty or Hack enough to evaluate their futures, do you think that's a good thing.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I still see a 4-12 team that will end up with a top four pick in the draft with the firepower to trade up a spot or two.    

Even 4-12 may not land you a top 4 pick this year - Giants, Browns, 'Niners, Bears, Chargers, Colts, Saints, Dolphins (and more) all may have something to say about that. Do we really want to waste a ton of draft capital to move up all those spots.

We can't expect the players or coaching staff to "tank". I actually give them a ton of credit for playing hard. People are just "disappointed" because we knew this team was going to be really bad heading into the season and as the Jets luck would have it, they choose to rebuild in a year where there are a ton of bad teams in the league.

 

[Kiddnets]

Maybe if you actually read what everyone is saying instead of trying to be the "voice of reason" (in your own warped way) - you'd see that people want to see Petty or Hack play so that we can see what we have in them. If they were 3-2 right now with Petty or Hack having been the QB all season, I'd be pretty psyched right now and would want to see them keep it up. If the Jets finish 6-10 and we don't get to see each young QB get at least 3 games in, this season is truly a disaster. I like McCown and I'm glad he's having success for his own benefit but at 37 we are receiving no benefit by trotting him out there. He's played ok, but let's face it he's made some bad mistakes that could have cost the Jets wins if the Browns and Jags didn't hand the games back to them.

Right now the team is 3-2 which looks good on paper but those three wins came against Cutler, Bortles and Kizer with two of those teams giving the game to the Jets with their own incompetence. I have no confidence in this team winning more than two more games all season with the schedule getting much tougher coming up.

At this point, I'll surely be pulling for them to beat the Patriots, but in my head I know that even though the Pats are not playing well, it's a long shot for the Jets to pull that out.

Sure it's easy to point out the successes of the QBs that fell down in Round 1 and turned out great like Rodgers, Watson or Carr but there's also a lot of Weedons, Manziels, and Manuels in that mix. Being in position to take the QB you have ranked the highest instead of settling is a plus - even though sure it's possible that QB can bust as well. I'd rather take that chance than to be stuck in the 5-8 win range.

At this point it's meaningless to even discuss it because there's just too many bad teams that will not even make it to 3 wins, so we may as well just let the chips fall where they may and see where it  stands at the end of the season. If they do go 5-11 or 6-10 and we don't get to see Petty or Hack enough to evaluate their futures, do you think that's a good thing.

Amen  - if hey were 3-2 with Petty or Hack and be uber pumped.....this just reeks of Fitzmagic type of smoke and mirrors - beating up on crappy teams...only to end up 6-10 or 7-9 with another mid round defensive pick.  To make matters worse the friggin giants are going to have a top pick and you can bet they will be looking for the heir to Eli for the next 15 yrs. 

I hate the Pats and will be at the stadium rooting on the Jets but man this feels like wasted opportunity/purgatory.  

 

[jwb]

At this point, might as well go win games. If you absolutely love a QB in the draft, trade up for him. 

 

[Kiddnets]

watching Watson last pm hurt.....also fully admit I was and am good with the Adams pick but man seeing a franchise QB slip past them when reports are Texans were dying to trade up with the Jets for him also hurts///...he was sitting there....it would have taken a brass pair from Mac to grab him over Adams but if he was a true elite evaluator of talent I have to think he would have seen this is a franchise QB and grabbed him.  I know its Monday am QBing and many other teams passed on him but man!  

 

[voiceofunreason]

This. I was SCREAMING for the Jets to take Watson. I thought his game was being unfairly picked apart during the run up to the draft and just couldn't find anyone who could give me a reason why the guy wasn't a slam dunk top 5 pick.

Adams obviously looks awesome, but a top 10 QB is still worth much more than even a hall of fame safety (especially with today's rules). And god forbid Watson becomes truly elite. You'll really need to talk me off the ledge at that point.

So yeah, this season sucks. At least Darnold isn't lighting it up. Hard to judge Rosen as the team around him is so mediocre.

Still think Watkins is awful, seems perfect for the Jets or Browns.

 

[NYRAGE]

watching Watson last pm hurt.....also fully admit I was and am good with the Adams pick but man seeing a franchise QB slip past them when reports are Texans were dying to trade up with the Jets for him also hurts///...he was sitting there....it would have taken a brass pair from Mac to grab him over Adams but if he was a true elite evaluator of talent I have to think he would have seen this is a franchise QB and grabbed him.  I know its Monday am QBing and many other teams passed on him but man!  

Not sure McCags would have taken him after the Hack pick last year. Imagine the spin after facing constant questions from the NY Media.  2 years later, sure.

Powell is day to day with a calf sprain.

 

[Fariq]

Even 4-12 may not land you a top 4 pick this year - Giants, Browns, 'Niners, Bears, Chargers, Colts, Saints, Dolphins (and more) all may have something to say about that. Do we really want to waste a ton of draft capital to move up all those spots.

We can't expect the players or coaching staff to "tank". I actually give them a ton of credit for playing hard. People are just "disappointed" because we knew this team was going to be really bad heading into the season and as the Jets luck would have it, they choose to rebuild in a year where there are a ton of bad teams in the league.

Giants- Manning will be 37 during the 2018 season and they drafted Davis Webb in the 3rd round. They have a rough schedule and are not likely to win more than four games, but they have a bevy of big time defensive players. This situation doesn't strike me as one that would result in them drafting a QB in the 1st round.

Browns- We don't know for sure yet, but they may have their future QB already.

49ers- if they acquire Kirk Cousins, then they are not drafting a QB

Bears- if they have a top 4 pick, they are not using it on a QB

Chargers- Rivers will turn 37 late in the 2018 season. This is definitely a team that could draft a QB in the first round. Would Rivers then be traded?

Colts- I liked Jacoby Brissett in college. With him and Luck on the roster, I don't envision the Colts drafting a QB.

Saints- I suppose they could move on from Brees after this season.

Dolphins- This team could definitely draft a QB.

I think if the Jets go 4-12, they could land a QB without trading up. 5-11 is even possible. 

6-10 or better with no playoffs is rough. 

If the Jets get to 5 wins before December and the college QBs start to show for sure that they are locks to be good in the NFL, then I will be worried. Right now I am not because the Jets only have 3 wins and the college QBs are all showing flaws. Sam Darnold has some sloppy mechanics (Kosar and Rivers threw sloppy but had success; others like Leftwich and Bortles had/have issues in this way) and might not even be in the 2018 draft, Josh Rosen has a personality and cockiness that could be a real problem especially in NY/NJ, Josh Allen hasn't looked good partially due to shaky teammates, Lamar Jackson has had some struggles against good teams, etc. As of this moment, I don't know how to rank these fellows.    

 

[Fariq]

To make matters worse the friggin giants are going to have a top pick and you can bet they will be looking for the heir to Eli for the next 15 yrs. 

I hate the Pats and will be at the stadium rooting on the Jets but man this feels like wasted opportunity/purgatory.  

They drafted Davis Webb to hopefully be the replacement for Manning. Mike Francesa says the Giants will draft a QB if they have a top 3 pick. This means the Giants will not draft a QB if they have a top 3 pick. So, no need to worry.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

They drafted Davis Webb to hopefully be the replacement for Manning. Mike Francesa says the Giants will draft a QB if they have a top 3 pick. This means the Giants will not draft a QB if they have a top 3 pick. So, no need to worry.

...and then he'll say he never said it (if he was still on the radio then). I do believe the Giants will draft a QB if they have a top pick though.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Whenever you let yourself start believing in this team, they'll pull the rug out from under you.

I'll admit it was a very enjoyable game overall and I love the way this team competes. This is not the same Pats team as we are used to seeing but they are still obviously a good team and the Jets were there until the very end. Without one of the worst calls in NFL history, they very well may have even won this game.

ASJ was a find and it's great to finally see the Jets have a weapon at TE. Let's lock this guy up this offseason.

I feel bad for Adams. On the surface he had a really poor game, but I'm not sure how the coaching staff thought leaving a rookie safety matched up one on one against Gronk for most of the game was a good idea.

Forte needs to be shown the door. It's painful to watch him now. He has sure hands but can not do anything after the catch and can not help the running game in anyway. At this point releasing or trading him away for pennies would not be a "tank" move but would be a football move. Let's let Powell and McGuire and Cadet handle the backfield going forward, please.

I still want to see Petty and Hack get some time, but I obviously can not blame Bowles for sticking with McCown. He has played about as well as anyone could have expected and the team is still (on paper at least) in the mix. It sucks for the long term outlook, but what can he do? Maybe this will work itself out through injury or a losing streak, we'll see.

Next week, once again I will no doubt be pulling for a win. At this point we may as well ride it out and let the chips fall where they may.

 

[Bossman]

Lets talk about the TD that wasn't..

Replay showed the ball came loose before the goal line. TE lost control. He had zero hands on the ball as the ball hovered in his lap.

photo: http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/258643062/bizarre-overturned-touchdown-costs-jets-pats

Hard to tell when he regained control but the review police determined he was touching out of bounds at the time he regained control. ... hence the touchback call.

The best view is from behind where you see ASJ loose control, leave his feat, and land out of bounds before ever touching in bounds again.

Clicking along the play line allows for frame by frame shots: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2738818-twitter-reacts-to-bizarre-call-that-costs-jets-a-touchdown-vs-patriots

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Lets talk about the TD that wasn't..

Replay showed the ball came loose before the goal line. TE lost control. He had zero hands on the ball as the ball hovered in his lap.

photo: http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/258643062/bizarre-overturned-touchdown-costs-jets-pats

Hard to tell when he regained control but the review police determined he was touching out of bounds at the time he regained control. ... hence the touchback call.

The best view is from behind where you see ASJ loose control, leave his feat, and land out of bounds before ever touching in bounds again.

Clicking along the play line allows for frame by frame shots: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2738818-twitter-reacts-to-bizarre-call-that-costs-jets-a-touchdown-vs-patriots

The only thing that matters was whether he had the ball when he touched the pylon. He did. As soon as that happens the play is over, TD. 

Anyway, your team benefitted and there's nothing to gain by going back and forth so if you think it was the right call (and you'd be on a pretty lonely island as not one analyst including former Pats would agree), sobeit. Congrats.

 

[TLEF316]

They can't prove he DIDN'T regain control. Therefore the call on the field should have stood. That's how replay is supposed to work.

 

[Anarchy99]

For those saying he grabbed the ball again, THAT IS NOT THE COMPLETE RULE. The rule, which is dumb, states that the player must regain possession of the ball AND re-establish himself on the field of play (i.e. Two feet or a knee down on the field of play AND maintain control of the ball through hitting the ground. 

Just because ASJ seems to have grabbed the ball at some point, he didn't get his feet down on the field of play and the ball was moving when his butt was on the sideline. 

So people should have an issue with the rule, or people should have an issue with the replay process. But the way they called it fit the rule (which I agree is a silly rule).

 

[Bossman]

They can't prove he DIDN'T regain control. Therefore the call on the field should have stood. That's how replay is supposed to work.

I agree. That's that part that's missing. Did they ever explain why it was reversed? I'm only assuming "out of bounds before re-establishing control" but I wasn't able to watch live so I'm only looking at replays.

I don't think anyone would argue if they let the call stand for lack of evidence with the camera angles that were provided.

Also, I'd like to see that rule be changed. Fumble thru the endzone shouldn't cause a team to loose the ball.

They should change the rule so that team keeps the ball and takes it from where it was fumbled / last possessed. Makes much more sense.

Anyway, Jets played well and it would have been a lot more interesting had that play stood.

 

[Run It Up]

Aww he deleted it

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Nevermind - my apologies. Not worth it.

 

[TLEF316]

If they had called it a fumble on the field, I would have no problem with that call standing. There was no evidence that ASJ regained full control with feet down (which is a bad rule IMO. Why is that necessary when a guy can Superman dive into the endzone and end the play the milisecond he breaks the plane?).

But there's also no indisputable evidence that he didn't. His body is shielding the video. TD should have stood.

Neither the fumble rule or the touchback rule are good ones. 

 

[JuniorNB]

Probably the worst call I've seen in 40 years of watching football. It's just amazing the gifts the Pats keep getting. Are the officials intimidated by Belichick? I just don't get it.

 

[Anarchy99]

If they had called it a fumble on the field, I would have no problem with that call standing. There was no evidence that ASJ regained full control with feet down (which is a bad rule IMO. Why is that necessary when a guy can Superman dive into the endzone and end the play the milisecond he breaks the plane?).

But there's also no indisputable evidence that he didn't. His body is shielding the video. TD should have stood.

Neither the fumble rule or the touchback rule are good ones. 

As I mentioned in one of the other threads, there needs to be some clarity on what happens during video review when they discover something that wasn't initially what they were looking at. In this case, they initially were checking to see if the ball crossed the plane to confirm the TD. But they found the ball came out (which to me is crystal clear on any number of angles). But the question then becomes . . . then what? Once they determine that the ball came out before the goal line, then where does the burden of proof go? Does the video have to show the runner reestablished possession and recovery (as the refs called it)? If there is nothing conclusive, is it ruled a fumble out of bounds by default (ie, the assumption is he did not not recover?) Or absent of clear and compelling evidence the default is they assume he did recover?

Basically, there are three things that are infuriating people here:

1) the rule about re-establishing possession after the ball comes lose
2) the rule that a fumble out of the end zone is a touchback
3) whatever the replay rules are once it is determined that the call on the field was missed (in this case the fumble) and what happens from that point forward.

Unfortunately for the Jets, all three of those went against New York on that play. IMO, all three of those rules need amending, as they are all pretty unfair.

 

[NYRAGE]

I thought it was crazy to reverse that TD, but it is what it is. We lost because we went away from what was working early in the game when we were moving so easily and because McCown was careless right before the half. Not to mention, Buster being Buster by not catching what would have been an INT.

Good teams know how to close games out. We're not there. Another good scrappy effort though.

 

[Stealthycat]

The only thing that matters was whether he had the ball when he touched the pylon. He did. As soon as that happens the play is over, TD. 

this is true

 

[Tool]

Giants- Manning will be 37 during the 2018 season and they drafted Davis Webb in the 3rd round. They have a rough schedule and are not likely to win more than four games, but they have a bevy of big time defensive players. This situation doesn't strike me as one that would result in them drafting a QB in the 1st round.

Browns- We don't know for sure yet, but they may have their future QB already.

49ers- if they acquire Kirk Cousins, then they are not drafting a QB

Bears- if they have a top 4 pick, they are not using it on a QB

Chargers- Rivers will turn 37 late in the 2018 season. This is definitely a team that could draft a QB in the first round. Would Rivers then be traded?

Colts- I liked Jacoby Brissett in college. With him and Luck on the roster, I don't envision the Colts drafting a QB.

Saints- I suppose they could move on from Brees after this season.

Dolphins- This team could definitely draft a QB.

I think if the Jets go 4-12, they could land a QB without trading up. 5-11 is even possible. 

6-10 or better with no playoffs is rough. 

If the Jets get to 5 wins before December and the college QBs start to show for sure that they are locks to be good in the NFL, then I will be worried. Right now I am not because the Jets only have 3 wins and the college QBs are all showing flaws. Sam Darnold has some sloppy mechanics (Kosar and Rivers threw sloppy but had success; others like Leftwich and Bortles had/have issues in this way) and might not even be in the 2018 draft, Josh Rosen has a personality and cockiness that could be a real problem especially in NY/NJ, Josh Allen hasn't looked good partially due to shaky teammates, Lamar Jackson has had some struggles against good teams, etc. As of this moment, I don't know how to rank these fellows.    

Giants and Browns will most likely draft a QB in first round

 

[Mookie]

There wasn't indisputable evidence to overrule the call on the field, but if that play was the "correct" call, I've got a big problem with the rule.  ASJ completed the catch, crossed the goal line, and the ball never left his possession - the ball shifted from one arm to the other.  He didn't fumble into or out of the end zone, and he didn't drop the ball.  How is that not a touchdown?  More importantly, how is possession changed to make it Patriots ball?  Really really stupid and unfair interpretation of the rule.  It's getting to be a bit like golf where some rules nerd can call in a violation from his couch when a ball not placed within a half inch of its original spot.  

 

[Anarchy99]

There wasn't indisputable evidence to overrule the call on the field, but if that play was the "correct" call, I've got a big problem with the rule.  ASJ completed the catch, crossed the goal line, and the ball never left his possession - the ball shifted from one arm to the other.  He didn't fumble into or out of the end zone, and he didn't drop the ball.  How is that not a touchdown?  More importantly, how is possession changed to make it Patriots ball?  Really really stupid and unfair interpretation of the rule.  It's getting to be a bit like golf where some rules nerd can call in a violation from his couch when a ball not placed within a half inch of its original spot.  

It is clear on the replays that prior to reaching the goal line that the ball is in the air and in NEITHER of ASJ's hands. Until this point, he did not have possession of the ball and cross the goal line.He then dives / falls / reaches for the pylon. In that process, he seems to have the ball in his hand as he hits the pylon (but is still in the air). However, since he lost control of the ball, to re-establish possession, he needs to a) regain full possession of the ball, b) get two feet or one knee in bounds, and c) maintain possession when he hits the ground. Throughout this whole process, it is treated just like making a catch.

Based on what the refs saw . . .

a) they did not feel he secured and tucked the ball away
b) he did not get both feet on the ground, nor did he get a knee down
c) when he landed on the sideline the ball shifted and moved from one hand to the other

BY RULE, this makes it a fumble that was nor recovered in the field of play. BY RULE, by landing out of bounds in the end zone when the ball crossed the goal line without possession, that is a touch back. Yes, the rules are odd and likely unfair, but those are the rules.

 

[Mookie]

It is clear on the replays that prior to reaching the goal line that the ball is in the air and in NEITHER of ASJ's hands. Until this point, he did not have possession of the ball and cross the goal line.He then dives / falls / reaches for the pylon. In that process, he seems to have the ball in his hand as he hits the pylon (but is still in the air). However, since he lost control of the ball, to re-establish possession, he needs to a) regain full possession of the ball, b) get two feet or one knee in bounds, and c) maintain possession when he hits the ground. Throughout this whole process, it is treated just like making a catch.

Based on what the refs saw . . .

a) they did not feel he secured and tucked the ball away
b) he did not get both feet on the ground, nor did he get a knee down
c) when he landed on the sideline the ball shifted and moved from one hand to the other

BY RULE, this makes it a fumble that was nor recovered in the field of play. BY RULE, by landing out of bounds in the end zone when the ball crossed the goal line without possession, that is a touch back. Yes, the rules are odd and likely unfair, but those are the rules.

The refs saw it as a touchdown . . .

 

[Anarchy99]

The refs saw it as a touchdown . . .

On the original play. On replay, they saw that the ball clearly became dislodged . . . and classifying it as a fumble. That immediately changed the outcome of the play. I don't see any way people can argue that ASJ had control of the ball 100% of the time. You can see on replay the ball is in NEITHER hand before he reaches the goal line. That triggered what I outlined above.

 

[NREC34]

The refs saw it as a touchdown . . .

This guy is dense...

 

[Mookie]

On the original play. On replay, they saw that the ball clearly became dislodged . . . and classifying it as a fumble. That immediately changed the outcome of the play. I don't see any way people can argue that ASJ had control of the ball 100% of the time. You can see on replay the ball is in NEITHER hand before he reaches the goal line. That triggered what I outlined above.

No

And No

 

[Anarchy99]

No

And No

The picture under the video fully illustrates why the refs called what they did. You can see the ball is clearly not in his hands.

As for the second link, ASJ ends up on the sideline in the end zone with the ball moving. So no, just getting his knee down (if he did) does not meet the requirement of having to hit the ground and maintain possession of the ball. People are using the thresh hold of ASJ as a runner getting into the end zone. Once he lost control of the football, they treated it like he needed to complete a reception . . . meaning he had to have full control of the ball without it moving when he hit the ground. I suspect if you Pereira and Blandino were asked again after all this has been discussed, reviewed, and disested (beyond the first couple of minutes after the play) they would have a different take on things.

 

[Mookie]

The picture under the video fully illustrates why the refs called what they did. You can see the ball is clearly not in his hands.

As for the second link, ASJ ends up on the sideline in the end zone with the ball moving. So no, just getting his knee down (if he did) does not meet the requirement of having to hit the ground and maintain possession of the ball. People are using the thresh hold of ASJ as a runner getting into the end zone. Once he lost control of the football, they treated it like he needed to complete a reception . . . meaning he had to have full control of the ball without it moving when he hit the ground. I suspect if you Pereira and Blandino were asked again after all this has been discussed, reviewed, and disested (beyond the first couple of minutes after the play) they would have a different take on things.

Sorry. I will never get there.  This was one of the most stupid, inane, nonsensical, and unfair things I have ever seen in sports, let alone the NFL. 

 

[TLEF316]

I dont dispute that at some point, ASJ "lost" possession of the ball.  But that's not the burden of proof. The BOP is that they have to show there was indisputable evidence that he didn't score a legal TD, which means they need visual evidence that he didn't recover in time. I didn't see that video.  Did he PROBABLY not recover the ball and establish himself in bounds? Sure. I'll buy that. Did he DEFINITELY not recover the ball? Not from the angles I've seen.

And to me, if its called a TD on the field, that's what they need to overturn it.  100% indisputable visual evidence that he A) lost the ball AND B) Didn't recover it. IMO, they didn't do that, so the ruling was wrong.

And again, I don't understand why a ball carrier who bobbles a ball (IMO, a fumble isn't a fumble until it hits the ground or someone else catches it. They dont count it as one in the stat book) needs to re-establish full possession with both feet or knee while a diving player can completely lose the ball the instant after he breaks the plane and score a TD. That seems backwards to me.

 

[menobrown]

There is nothing else on this topic I feel needs to be discussed other than if it's still being debated today that means it's not conclusive which means the call on the field should have stood.

 

[FF Ninja]

I dont dispute that at some point, ASJ "lost" possession of the ball.  But that's not the burden of proof. The BOP is that they have to show there was indisputable evidence that he didn't score a legal TD, which means they need visual evidence that he didn't recover in time.

This is it. Totally bonkers that they were able to change the call on the field based on that non-evidence. I would buy them watching the evidence and not overturning the call on the field even if it was ruled a fumble initially, but to reverse it... that's some dookie.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

@Anarchy99 please stop. Literally every single comment I have read or heard from any NFL analyst (even ex-Pats) is incredulous over that call. You are the only person that thinks they got it right. Please go sell it elsewhere. 

 

[Anarchy99]

@Anarchy99 please stop. Literally every single comment I have read or heard from any NFL analyst (even ex-Pats) is incredulous over that call. You are the only person that thinks they got it right. Please go sell it elsewhere. 

I already gave my split the baby way it should have been handled. They should have said the ball game out before he got in the end zone but he touched it while his foot was out of bounds. Then they could have given the Jets the ball at the six inch line. 

As far as the Pats go, they all know the rule. Malcolm Butler was in the refs face INMEDIATELY that ASJ was juggling the ball and the TD should not have counted. 

 

[Skoo]

Probably the worst call I've seen in 40 years of watching football. It's just amazing the gifts the Pats keep getting. Are the officials intimidated by Belichick? I just don't get it.

I'm not generally into the conspiracy theories, but who do you think the NFL would rather have leading the AFC East and in the playoffs?

Either way, that was up there for most ridiculous call ever.

The LAST thing that should have happened as a result of that play is the Pats getting the ball. It's absurd. Whether it's in the rules or not it simply doesn't make sense.

 

[msudaisy26]

Great thread title. 

 

[Dr. Octopus]

As far as the Pats go, they all know the rule. Malcolm Butler was in the refs face INMEDIATELY that ASJ was juggling the ball and the TD should not have counted. 

 

[NREC34]

I'm not generally into the conspiracy theories, but who do you think the NFL would rather have leading the AFC East and in the playoffs?

Either way, that was up there for most ridiculous call ever.

The LAST thing that should have happened as a result of that play is the Pats getting the ball. It's absurd. Whether it's in the rules or not it simply doesn't make sense.

This makes the NFL look pretty bad. 

Like NBA level rigged. Well maybe not that bad ?

 

[Bossman]

Hard to consider this "changing hands"

http://www.sportsonearth.com/assets/images/9/0/2/258644902/cuts/950x538/cut.jpg

It's a dumb rule ... but he lost control there. 

 

[brun]

As far as the Pats go, they all know the rule. Malcolm Butler was in the refs face INMEDIATELY that ASJ was juggling the ball and the TD should not have counted. 

After hearing the explanation I think the call is consistent with the rules. As a Pats fan I am biased but most of the posters here are as well and I doubt many will be swayed from their views. I did think Butler was dangerously close to an ejection though.

I blame the Jets. If not for Vinnie's helmet touchdown, there might not have been a review at all.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

This makes the NFL look pretty bad. 

Like NBA level rigged. Well maybe not that bad ?

Jets got hosed by a stupid rule.  Raiders got hosed by a stupid rule. 

Or....clearly Goodell looking out for his boyz Tommy and Robert.

You get to choose.  Hooray opinions!

 

[Kiddnets]

Turning the page after the robbery.....at the Fish this week coming off a win....should be a good test to see if the early wins were a mirage or not...I can see the Jets taking out frustration and stomping them....good test for Bowles to not have a let down after that fiasco....I hate that he didnt get upset in the least....would like to see the guy show some emotion....but if this is his thing then so be it - but it better have an upside and have them ready to play Sunday.