2018 College Football Thread: Local man buys some teenage champions a 4 for 4 (3 Viewers)

[Politician Spock]

You’re claiming urban didn’t cover up anything?  

Yep!

I was convinced when I first heard the story that he did.

After getting more information, I'm convinced he didn't. 

Did I dream where he said he wasn’t aware of domestic violence until recently? 

Let me ask you.... what domestic violence was he supposed to be aware of?

I ask because McMurphy's story assumes Courtney's claims are true. But she's filed her complaint to the police NINE TIMES, and every time the police investigated and concluded it would be a waste of the court's time to even charge him with domestic violence. So again, what domestic violence was he supposed to be aware of? The domestic violence that the government is covering up?

 And just completely changed his story? 

A story was changed, but it wasn't Urban's. McMurphy's original facebook post claimed Zach was arrested for domestic violence in 2015. He has since changed that story. He had to. Because people who fact checked found nothing. When Urban said he had people check into the 2015 claim in the story that came out the night before, they found nothing. He was telling the truth. Because McMurphy changed his story so that it only shows that Courtney filed a complaint in 2015, it made it look like Urban wasn't aware of the complaint. Of course he was, and like all NINE of her complaints that she filed, they all were investigated and were determined to have insufficient evidence by the prosecutors office to charge Zack with anything. All nine of them were just domestic disputes, not domestic violence. 

 

[Christo]

And what if she doesn't believe she needs mental help. How does the school help her?

How do you know she wouldn't have accepted the help?

 

[Politician Spock]

How do you know she wouldn't have accepted the help?

Most people who need it reject the offer because they're in denial. 

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Yep!

I was convinced when I first heard the story that he did.

After getting more information, I'm convinced he didn't. 

Let me ask you.... what domestic violence was he supposed to be aware of?

I ask because McMurphy's story assumes Courtney's claims are true. But she's filed her complaint to the police NINE TIMES, and every time the police investigated and concluded it would be a waste of the court's time to even charge him with domestic violence. So again, what domestic violence was he supposed to be aware of? The domestic violence that the government is covering up?

A story was changed, but it wasn't Urban's. McMurphy's original facebook post claimed Zach was arrested for domestic violence in 2015. He has since changed that story. He had to. Because people who fact checked found nothing. When Urban said he had people check into the 2015 claim in the story that came out the night before, they found nothing. He was telling the truth. Because McMurphy changed his story so that it only shows that Courtney filed a complaint in 2015, it made it look like Urban wasn't aware of the complaint. Of course he was, and like all NINE of her complaints that she filed, they all were investigated and were determined to have insufficient evidence by the prosecutors office to charge Zack with anything. All nine of them were just domestic disputes, not domestic violence. 

So he fired the guy last month why?

McMurphy or Courtney made up all the threatening text messages?

 

[Christo]

Maybe get her some help. We're talking about a billion dollar institution that does what's necessary to take care of a multitude of people. Why not her?

Because that’s not how it works and you damn well know it. It’s impossible for them to take care of individual students let alone some low level employees spouse. That’s like suggesting your place of employment cares about your custodians marital affairs. 

I do? I'm not saying they should cure her. But it doesn't cost much to reach out to her and offer to help.

 

[Christo]

Maybe get her some help. We're talking about a billion dollar institution that does what's necessary to take care of a multitude of people. Why not her?

Because that’s not how it works and you damn well know it. It’s impossible for them to take care of individual students let alone some low level employees spouse. That’s like suggesting your place of employment cares about your custodians marital affairs. 

I do? I'm not saying they should cure her. But it doesn't cost much to reach out to her and offer to help.

Low level employee? He wasn't a janitor. He was an assistant coach of the football team at Ohio State.

I've never worked for an employer who was subject to Title IX.

 

[Christo]

Most people who need it reject the offer because they're in denial. 

So you don't know.

 

[Galileo]

Yep!

I was convinced when I first heard the story that he did.

After getting more information, I'm convinced he didn't. 

Where have you been getting all your information from?  You keep posting details here that I have not seen or heard elsewhere.

 

[Politician Spock]

So he fired the guy last month why?

Because he was recently charged with a crime. 

The current charges against him stem from this. Not only had Courtney filled numerous police complaints, she called 911 a lot! On one of the 911 call responses, one of the officers (all the Powell, OH officers were familiar with her history of complaints) decided to placate her complaint. She was accusing Zach of trespassing, but she lived in an apartment complex, and Zach had not entered her home. So the officer made a compromise to placate her, and told Zach if he was ever within 500 feet of her apartment, then he would cite him for criminal trespassing. A few months later, Zach needed transfer his son from his possession to hers. Their established meeting place was the pool house at her apartment complex. She wasn't there. He called her numerous times but she wouldn't answer. So he drove his son to her apartment, where she was waiting outside, smart phone in hand, snapping a picture of him being well within 500 ft of her apartment. He left his son with her and left, and she sent the picture to the officer. The officer did what he said he would do, and cited him for criminal trespassing. The Delaware County Prosecutors office got the citation, saw the picture... and filed charges.

As soon as Urban found out he was facing charges, he fired him without hesitation. 

McMurphy or Courtney made up all the threatening text messages?

I honestly don't know if they are real or not. But again, Courtney has filed NINE police complaints and the police have investigated them all. If the police were never given those text messages, then why the hell didn't she give the texts to the police. Or the police did get them, and they were part of the investigations that concluded insufficient evidence. 

But yeah, in the court of public opinion, aren't those texts great for making Zach look guilty?!? 

 

[Politician Spock]

Where have you been getting all your information from?  You keep posting details here that I have not seen or heard elsewhere.

Which details have you not seen or heard elsewhere?

 

[Politician Spock]

So you don't know.

Nor do you know if they did or did not try to get her to a psychiatrist. And again, why is it Urban's obligation to get the ex-wife of an assistant coach to a psychiatrist?

 

[Galileo]

Which details have you not seen or heard elsewhere?

Stuff about McMurphy changing his article...the details about why Zach was trespassing... What sources are you tapping into?

 

[Politician Spock]

Stuff about McMurphy changing his article...the details about why Zach was trespassing... What sources are you tapping into?

Here is the December 2017 police report that resulted in Zach getting the "trespass warning": http://media.cleveland.com/osu_impact/other/2017-12-17.pdf

What happened when he was cited for violating the trespass warning, which got him the charges that got him fired, are included in the statement his lawyer released. From: https://247sports.com/college/ohio-state/Article/Ohio-State-Buckeyes-football-Zach-Smiths-attorney-issues-statement-on-new-accusations--120284740/

"Zach was returning his 13-year-old son to his ex-wife, which had previously been agreed upon," Koffel said on air. "The exact location of the drop-off hadn't been discussed. They were texting each other as to where to meet. She told them to meet at their apartment complex clubhouse. He drove there. She wasn't there, and he dropped the son at her apartment. She was waiting for him with her cell phone out, and took a picture of him in her driveway. He left and she called the Powell police and said it was trespassing.

Note, his son is actually just 8 years old, not 13. The lawyer got that detail wrong. 

As for McMurphy changing his article, anytime someone edits a post on Facebook, not only does Facebook save both the old post and the new edit, but any user can see the old unedited post if they want to.

Here is his post of his article: https://www.facebook.com/TheBrettMcMurphy/posts/2027190667304987

To see the old un-edited article where he claimed Zach was arrested in 2015, click on the three dots (...) in the upper right hand corner of the post, and select "more options" and then "view edit history". You will see the original post said:

Smith, who had a domestic violence civil protection order filed against him on Friday in Delaware County (Ohio) by his ex-wife Courtney Smith, was arrested Oct. 26, 2015 on felony counts of domestic violence and felonious assault against Courtney Smith.

The new edited post says: 

Smith, 34, was investigated Oct. 26, 2015 by the Powell (Ohio) Police Department on felony counts of domestic violence and felonious assault against Courtney Smith, I learned. The original police report, from 2015, indicated Zach Smith was arrested. The police report released to the media on Tuesday says Smith was not arrested.

 

[pats3in4]

Because that’s not how it works and you damn well know it. It’s impossible for them to take care of individual students let alone some low level employees spouse. That’s like suggesting your place of employment cares about your custodians marital affairs. 

Zach Smith makes $340,000 a year, a $40,000 raise from last year.  I want to be a low-level employee at tOSU.

 

[H Jass]

Politician Spock dong yeoman's work in here.  Thanks for all the info

 

[NotSmart]

Politician Spock dong yeoman's work in here.  Thanks for all the info

Agreed, his info has reminded me (yet again - I'll learn someday) to wait and get more facts before grabbing pitchforks.

 

[General Malaise]

I could beg for Urban Meyer to be fired and go deficate in the middle of the stadium to voice my displeasure with this situation and you’d still hate OSU and their fans just like most the others in this thread who I’ve watched go out of their way for years to #### on the school and it’s fan base. In other words, I don’t care what you or Capella, or Christo, or Doctor Detroit (who I actually have respect for) think. 

For the record, I've had nothing but nice things to say here, there and everywhere about OSU fans, based off my trip to the 2010 Rose Bowl and 2015 Championship Game.  Fans I encountered were gracious before, during and after the beat down of Oregon.  You're free to investigate if you don't believe me.

But boy...if you don't think Urban looks badly here or if you want to place the blame on Brett McHenry or god forbid the woman who was beaten for what's happening right now at OSU, then I don't know what to say to you, especially if you're convinced everybody in here has an axe to grind against your school.  

Here is a hint though - it does not help Urban at all that he likes to proclaim moral high ground or say things like "lying will get you fired".  

 

[timschochet]

I don’t understand Politician Spock’s position either. 

My understanding is this: when Urban Meyer was asked about this issue, he told the media that he only learned of it recently. But it turns out he knew about for years. So he was lying. 

Why he was lying I don’t know. I have nothing against Urban Meyer. He’s obviously a great football coach and I have no idea what he’s like as a person. But he lied and it’s a pretty serious lie. Our President lies all the time but personally I don’t find that acceptable either. 

Ohio State is a highly visible university, one of the best in the nation even beyond athletics. If I were on their board I’d regretfully fire him immediately. Whatever his reason was, he can’t represent the school anymore. Full stop. He’s got to go, I’m mystified that they haven’t done so already. 

 

[Politician Spock]

I don’t understand Politician Spock’s position either. 

My understanding is this: when Urban Meyer was asked about this issue, he told the media that he only learned of it recently. But it turns out he knew about for years. So he was lying. 

IMHO, the it he only learned of recently was the alleged arrest of Zach in 2015.

Brett McMurphy's original story was that Zach had been arrested in BOTH 2009 and 2015. 

At B1G Media Day, Urban's response about the story was to give great detail about how he handed 2009. But when he went to discuss how he handled 2015, he said:

I got a text late last night something happened in 2015. And there was nothing. Once again, there's nothing -- once again, I don't know who creates a story like that

Zach was never arrested in 2015 (nor was he even charged with anything in 2015). McMurphy's story was factually incorrect. This is why McMurphy changed his story. To make it factually correct. Zach was only investigated in 2015, and never arrested, nor charged with anything. And Facebook makes it easy to see that McMurphy changed it.  Anytime someone edits a post on Facebook, not only does Facebook save both the old post and the new edit, but any user can see the old unedited post if they want to.

Here is Brett McMurphy's post of his article from July 23rd: https://www.facebook.com/TheBrettMcMurphy/posts/2027190667304987

To see the old un-edited article where he claimed Zach was arrested in 2015, click on the three dots (...) in the upper right hand corner of the post, and select "more options" and then "view edit history". You will see the original post said:

Smith,... was arrested Oct. 26, 2015 on felony counts of domestic violence and felonious assault against Courtney Smith.

The new edited post says: 

Smith,... was investigated Oct. 26, 2015... on felony counts of domestic violence and felonious assault against Courtney Smith,

So Urban wasn't lying. He wasn't covering anything up. And he hasn't change his story. He was responding to McMurphy's factually incorrect story, that was changed after Urban responded to it.

Why he was lying I don’t know. I have nothing against Urban Meyer. He’s obviously a great football coach and I have no idea what he’s like as a person. But he lied and it’s a pretty serious lie. Our President lies all the time but personally I don’t find that acceptable either. 

Ohio State is a highly visible university, one of the best in the nation even beyond athletics. If I were on their board I’d regretfully fire him immediately. Whatever his reason was, he can’t represent the school anymore. Full stop. He’s got to go, I’m mystified that they haven’t done so already. 

Urban's statement yesterday said: 

My words… must be clear, compassionate and most of all, completely accurate. Unfortunately, at Big Ten Media Days, I failed on many of these fronts.

So even though he didn't lie, he was way too vague, showed no compassion, and wasn't accurate.

I believe Urban and/or OSU will be suing Brett McMurphy (and so will Zach Smith), so their lawyers don't want any response to discuss the libel and slander McMurphy has committed. But beyond McMurphy having created the misunderstanding, and even worse, running with the misunderstanding to produce even more stories, Urban's response to the questions about Zach were pretty bad. But they're weren't a lie. 

 

[In The Zone]

You Florida fans sure are sour. I doubt you were crying over your titles. Urban didn’t hire Will Muschamp and you can say the cupboard was bare but Muschamp was also an awful coach and equally awful recruiter. 

The key word here is "was". I can tell you one thing. He's working his ### off right now and it appears that he's learned a lot from his previous stint as a head coach. Muschamp's achilles has always been his offense. On paper this year's offense looks to have lots of potential. He's building a contender piece by piece. How far can they go remains to be seen but he has the program trending up.

I'm not predicting a victory in week 2 vs UGA but I'm not ruling it out either. It's definitely a real possibility. 

Either way I can't wait for the season to start. 28 days and counting.

#AllGasNoBrakes

 

[Slapdash]

The key word here is "was". I can tell you one thing. He's working his ### off right now and it appears that he's learned a lot from his previous stint as a head coach. Muschamp's achilles has always been his offense. On paper this year's offense looks to have lots of potential. He's building a contender piece by piece. How far can they go remains to be seen but he has the program trending up.

I'm not predicting a victory in week 2 vs UGA but I'm not ruling it out either. It's definitely a real possibility. 

Either way I can't wait for the season to start. 28 days and counting.

#AllGasNoBrakes

If anything, we've learned more about the disaster Muschamp encountered at Florida.  Urban is a scumbag and has no place in this sport. Surprised it took so long to catch up with him.  I feel like we've known it for a long time though.

 

[timschochet]

IMHO, the it he only learned of recently was the alleged arrest of Zach in 2015.

Brett McMurphy's original story was that Zach had been arrested in BOTH 2009 and 2015. 

At B1G Media Day, Urban's response about the story was to give great detail about how he handed 2009. But when he went to discuss how he handled 2015, he said:

Zach was never arrested in 2015 (nor was he even charged with anything in 2015). McMurphy's story was factually incorrect. This is why McMurphy changed his story. To make it factually correct. Zach was only investigated in 2015, and never arrested, nor charged with anything. And Facebook makes it easy to see that McMurphy changed it.  Anytime someone edits a post on Facebook, not only does Facebook save both the old post and the new edit, but any user can see the old unedited post if they want to.

Here is Brett McMurphy's post of his article from July 23rd: https://www.facebook.com/TheBrettMcMurphy/posts/2027190667304987

To see the old un-edited article where he claimed Zach was arrested in 2015, click on the three dots (...) in the upper right hand corner of the post, and select "more options" and then "view edit history". You will see the original post said:

The new edited post says: 

So Urban wasn't lying. He wasn't covering anything up. And he hasn't change his story. He was responding to McMurphy's factually incorrect story, that was changed after Urban responded to it.

Urban's statement yesterday said: 

So even though he didn't lie, he was way too vague, showed no compassion, and wasn't accurate.

I believe Urban and/or OSU will be suing Brett McMurphy (and so will Zach Smith), so their lawyers don't want any response to discuss the libel and slander McMurphy has committed. But beyond McMurphy having created the misunderstanding, and even worse, running with the misunderstanding to produce even more stories, Urban's response to the questions about Zach were pretty bad. But they're weren't a lie. 

It seems to me like you’re really parsing this, Bill Clinton style. Call it a lie, call it “pretty bad” whatever you want. It was a deliberate attempt to mislead people. Unacceptable IMO. 

 

[Politician Spock]

It seems to me like you’re really parsing this, Bill Clinton style. Call it a lie, call it “pretty bad” whatever you want. It was a deliberate attempt to mislead people. Unacceptable IMO. 

Mislead people to believe what exactly?

 

[timschochet]

Mislead people to believe what exactly?

That he was unaware there was any issue regarding Zach Smith until just now. 

 

[Politician Spock]

That he was unaware there was any issue regarding Zach Smith until just now. 

And people believing that would be beneficial to him because....?

The question he responded to was specifically about 2009 and 2015, which were the years the story the day before claimed Zach had been arrested. 

He's always been aware of Zach and Coutrney's domestic issues. But 2009 was the only time he was aware that it was potentially criminal, until the 2018 charges which is what prompted Urban to fire Zach without hesitation. 

 

[timschochet]

And people believing that would be beneficial to him because....?

The question he responded to was specifically about 2009 and 2015, which were the years the story the day before claimed Zach had been arrested. 

He's always been aware of Zach and Coutrney's domestic issues. But 2009 was the only time he was aware that it was potentially criminal, until the 2018 charges which is what prompted Urban to fire Zach without hesitation. 

I don’t why it would be beneficial to him. I only know that he deliberately misled the media, and thus the public. 

 

[Politician Spock]

I don’t why it would be beneficial to him. I only know that he deliberately misled the media, and thus the public. 

But that makes more sense to you than him responding to a story that claimed Zach was arrested in both 2009 and 2015?

 

[Tin Cup]

There’s a fine line between informing the conversation and blocking out the sun for everyone else.

 

[Politician Spock]

Zach Smith interview

At the 7:27 mark, Zach is asked about Urban, and he gives the same reason I've given as to why Urban said what he did at B1G Media Day. 

 

[Adderall Slim]

Only In the Zone could stroll into a thread which includes numerous insightful thoughts on an incredibly relevant topic regarding a major program and college football as a whole, and somehow turn it into a treatise on South Carolina’s prospects for the 2018 season.  Calling you one-note is an undersell, saying this football team is irrelevant is polite.

But if you want to play that game, does it suck knowing that your in-state rival has accomplished more over the last 3 years than your program will in your lifetime?

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

Damn dude, sometimes we talk about our teams.

The Buckeye stuff has turned into Spock responding to every post to tell us Meyer has never done anything wrong in his life.

 

[In The Zone]

Only In the Zone could stroll into a thread which includes numerous insightful thoughts on an incredibly relevant topic regarding a major program and college football as a whole, and somehow turn it into a treatise on South Carolina’s prospects for the 2018 season.  Calling you one-note is an undersell, saying this football team is irrelevant is polite.

But if you want to play that game, does it suck knowing that your in-state rival has accomplished more over the last 3 years than your program will in your lifetime?

Just get ready for the ride. The gap is closing and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it..... 

...... except contribute to the "Slush Fund". 

Oh, and even though football is king the same can be said the other way about multiple sports. Some of our programs have accomplished things in the recent past that yours never will even sniff. 

 

[Politician Spock]

Damn dude, sometimes we talk about our teams.

The Buckeye stuff has turned into Spock responding to every post to tell us Meyer has never done anything wrong in his life.

Sorry. I'll stop trying to make some sense out of what happened. It does seem more entertaining if what he did doesn't make any sense.

 

[In The Zone]

Damn dude, sometimes we talk about our teams.

The Buckeye stuff has turned into Spock responding to every post to tell us Meyer has never done anything wrong in his life.

Exactly. I'm not the one that brought up Muschamp either.

 

[Christo]

Nor do you know if they did or did not try to get her to a psychiatrist. And again, why is it Urban's obligation to get the ex-wife of an assistant coach to a psychiatrist?

Because he has the power and ability to do so. And it might just have saved his assistant's job.

 

[Politician Spock]

Because he has the power and ability to do so. And it might just have saved his assistant's job.

Those things are true. But that does not produce an obligation. And we don't know that he did, or didn't voluntarily try.

But I digress. This thread is more entertaining for the majority if it's a jump to conclusions thread. I'll move the making sense of what happened to the OSU thread. 

 

[General Malaise]

Sorry. I'll stop trying to make some sense out of what happened. It does seem more entertaining if what he did doesn't make any sense.

I think you're doing a good job staying measured and presenting a defense of him based off your research.  You aren't coming across badly, IMO.  You're defending your school. 

 

[Politician Spock]

I think you're doing a good job staying measured and presenting a defense of him based off your research.  You aren't coming across badly, IMO.  You're defending your school. 

Thanks. But it's clear this isn't the thread for that. I'll continue in the OSU thread for anyone that's interested. 

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

Sorry. I'll stop trying to make some sense out of what happened. It does seem more entertaining if what he did doesn't make any sense.

You presented a side to the story. And in the end it might turn out to be 100% accurate.

 

[cheese]

The problem with Spock’s “explaining” of the situation is that most of the things he’s presenting as facts are just things Meyer and Smith told us to be true. Im not going to crucify Meyer for lying, but a couple days after blatantly lying to us about this exact situation we’re being asked to take his side of the he said, she said. It’s possible the rest of this went down as he explained them (the time when he supposedly wasn’t lying anymore), but it’s very possible he’s full of crap on all of it. 

 

[timschochet]

Sorry. I'll stop trying to make some sense out of what happened. It does seem more entertaining if what he did doesn't make any sense.

Of course it makes sense. 

Urban Meyer got scared. Technically he had done the right thing earlier but that was when the situation wasnt known to the public. When it became a news story Meyer probably worried that it would tarnish his own reputation, so he panicked and told the media he knew nothing about it. That was dumb, of course; if he had thought carefully he would have known that he would be shown to have lied. But people don’t think carefully in such situations. Meyer got scared and blurted out a lie; that’s my assumption and it makes total sense to me. 

 

[timschochet]

Im not going to crucify Meyer for lying 

He should be fired for it. Unacceptable that the Head football coach of one of the most important programs in America lie to the media about such a matter. 

 

[cheese]

Of course it makes sense. 

Urban Meyer got scared. Technically he had done the right thing earlier but that was when the situation wasnt known to the public. When it became a news story Meyer probably worried that it would tarnish his own reputation, so he panicked and told the media he knew nothing about it. That was dumb, of course; if he had thought carefully he would have known that he would be shown to have lied. But people don’t think carefully in such situations. Meyer got scared and blurted out a lie; that’s my assumption and it makes total sense to me. 

Yes. It makes sense to me why he would’ve lied. I might have too. But he was caught lying while simultaneously trying to get us all to believe the unbelievable. It doesn’t make it easy. 

 

[Christo]

Those things are true. But that does not produce an obligation. And we don't know that he did, or didn't voluntarily try.

A legal obligation, no. A moral obligation, sure. It's his job to do what's best for the program.

And you are, of course, right that we don't know exactly what he did or did not do. But that is also partly his fault.

 

[Tom Servo]

 In other words, I don’t care what you or Capella, or Christo, or Doctor Detroit (who I actually have respect for) think. 

You know, I’m offended at being omitted from this cabal of Buck haters. 

 

[The Commish]

You may want to get a little perspective, friend. You sound like Patriots fans, but without their success. No one besides deluded Michigan and Penn State fans give a damn about OSU.

I can only speak food myself but even this nondeluded Michigan couldn't  give two ####s. Though i will absolutely enjoy the mental gymnastics along with everyone else. It's probably the most tightly wound fan base in college sports. 

 

[Adderall Slim]

Just get ready for the ride. The gap is closing and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it..... 

...... except contribute to the "Slush Fund". 

Oh, and even though football is king the same can be said the other way about multiple sports. Some of our programs have accomplished things in the recent past that yours never will even sniff. 

Slush fund!!!  Your reply exceeded my wildest expectations, thank you for this.

Best of luck this season.  Muschamp is doing solid work and you avoid The Citadel, so I understand the high expectations.

 

[tri-man 47]

He should be fired for it. Unacceptable that the Head football coach of one of the most important programs in America lie to the media about such a matter. 

But unless they can fire him “with cause,” and we’ll have to see how that plays out, I doubt that they’ll let go ...just too costly to do so.

 

[Capella]

Look at these morons

Dumb ### Ohio State fans protest ESPN for story broken by guy no longer working for ESPN

 

[Dickie Dunn]

I almost missed the part earlier in the thread where Bojang showed how much respect he has for Doctor Detroit by comparing him to someone that he referred to more than once as a ##### bag.