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2019-20 NBA Thread: new forum, same great taste (8 Viewers)

Was about to say many of the same things. The league is so different now with movement, I find it hard to go over the top on the "3 different teams" thing.  It's like saying Carr and Cousins are better qbs than Montana because they both threw 4000 yards this season and Joe never did that. 
Or calling Joe Namath a HoF QB for One SB and saying Donovan McNabb isn't a HoF despite better overall passing numbers including his TD/INT ratio. If I'm not mistaken Namath threw almost as many passes to the other team as he did TDs to his teammates. 

 
We'll, Fultz was also the unanimous #1 overall pick the year he came out.
I have zero clue why he was just dreadful in college. Big red flag a guy top Prospect in the East went to a west coast team usually never happens and vice versa unless they are going to Duke/Kentucky/ETC. There were a lot of red flags with Fultz. Like I said I think people overhype draft picks to keep fans of bad teams glued to the TV and get ratings for the draft. This past draft after CHI picked I maybe stayed around for 3 other picks and turned off the draft. I don't know how anyone who isn't involved working with it can sit there for all those hours of sports to watch it. I have a friend who does and I think its kind of sad. Don't get me wrong going to the Draft was an experience I won't forget here in Philly but You couldn't pay me or give me enough free beer to sit there and watch an entire draft no matter what. Once my team is done with picks I'm out. 

 
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Why people say Wiggy is the Next Lebron

Wiggins the next Lebron

Andrew Wiggins considered the next Lebron

Foxsports Meet the Next Lebron

whoops those pesky facts getting in the way again. A simple Google search Andrew Wiggins the Next LeBron James brings up multiple articles on this And then 

Google Search Ben Simmons next Lebron

I know people love to use the whole oh no one said that about that player. It's a copout instead of saying yeah I admit they and I were wrong about those guys. 
Oh.

 
And do what with the money?    There's no big name players to sign next year and they still want to sell tickets.  
I think they need to step back and rebuild although with cap flexibility and a bunch of picks, they might be able to make it a quicker rebuild than many.  Having SGA is already a nice start. If they don’t want to do that, keep Russ and delay but extend the pain. 

 
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Last ten 1.01s:

Wall: Talked about a ton but many people considered him not lasting without getting a jumper

Kyrie: I don't remember huge hype on Kyrie just knew remember he was going 1 or 2 

AD: I honestly couldn't remember what was said about him 

Bennett: Definitely was hyped up and like I said I think Cleveland regrets not getting Embiid. 

Wiggins: Tons of hype was considered the best talented Prospect since Lebron

KAT: I remember a little hype but nothing too outlandish

Simmons: A lot of folks said Lebron comparisons but there was a select few who I thought had a better comparison of magic do to size and passing ability at the least

Fultz: It was either he or Tatum but there was never a unanimous clear cut favorite. 

Ayton: Definitely had some hype and was hoping CHI would get him or Doncic. Consolation prize of WCJR I'm happy with so far This was suppose to be Micheal Porter Jr Consensus #1 till the back injury which had a ton of hype

Zion: Definitely a ton of hype surrounding him 

I'd put Wiggy in the 2-4 range on the hypemeter

 
I have zero clue why he was just dreadful in college. Big red flag a guy top Prospect in the East went to a west coast team usually never happens and vice versa unless they are going to Duke/Kentucky/ETC. There were a lot of red flags with Fultz. Like I said I think people overhype draft picks to keep fans of bad teams glued to the TV and get ratings for the draft. This past draft after CHI picked I maybe stayed around for 3 other picks and turned off the draft. I don't know how anyone who isn't involved working with it can sit there for all those hours of sports to watch it. I have a friend who does and I think its kind of sad. Don't get me wrong going to the Draft was an experience I won't forget here in Philly but You couldn't pay me or give me enough free beer to sit there and watch an entire draft no matter what. Once my team is done with picks I'm out. 
The draft is awesome.

 
They better hope Embiid stays healthy because they are ####ed. Have you even seen their record in games eligible Embiid has missed combined the Sixers are without him? Ben's first year they went on a huge skid from Dec to Jan I believe Embiid was out and they struggled big time to the point there were articles on questioning if the experts had overrated the team. Now I know most of that record is also combined with Butler and Harris but Butler is gone is Harris is not someone if Embiid is out for a long time to rely on. A few GM's have even said it already Sixers were lucky to get Embiid because without him it would've been a total failure. Granted it's not a success yet because the overall goal from this is to win an NBA title but without Emiid it'd be a failure. You'd have a PG who is afraid of Contact, can't shoot is has a worse FT shooting numbers then DeAndre Jordan and a bunch of JAGs. 
so Sixers win 25 games this year?

 
Wiggins was incredibly hyped coming out of high school but his Kansas season wasn’t as dominant as expected.  I recall a lot of people questioning him.
I just remember my Sixer friends ####ting on me for questioning Wiggy after Kansas. I think most of it was calling me a hater because the 76ers had a shot at possible drawing him and I didn't want him on the team. When the truth was I just never believed the hype and thought it was stupid a bunch of teams were tanking for a player I considered a JAG. 

 
Who knows if the kawhi to Toronto reporters were totally blowing smoke or had bad info, but we do need to consider the improbability of what the clippers pulled off getting George, which seems to be the lynchpin of this move.  I think there is a totally reasonable scenario where kawhi was thinking he would return to Toronto unless an unlikely set of circumstances all came together to make the clippers the perfect situation.  The unlikely happened and this the outcome changed.  Doesn’t necessarily make the reports of him staying wrong.  These things are very fluid.
From what I read and interrupted was had LAC not been able to get PG13 then I think he was going back to Toronto and Toronto would try and get PG13. Both were apparently in talks with OKC and Presti pitted both against one another for the best deal see who flinched first. 

 
I think they need to step back and rebuild although with cap flexibility and a bunch of picks, they might be able to make it a quicker rebuild than many.  Having SGA is already a nice start. If they don’t want to do that, keep Russ and delay but extend the pain. 
Yes, they need either some picks or some young players with promising futures to make a deal for Russ worthwhile.   The deal they got for George was just perfect.   

 
Who knows if the kawhi to Toronto reporters were totally blowing smoke or had bad info, but we do need to consider the improbability of what the clippers pulled off getting George, which seems to be the lynchpin of this move.  I think there is a totally reasonable scenario where kawhi was thinking he would return to Toronto unless an unlikely set of circumstances all came together to make the clippers the perfect situation.  The unlikely happened and this the outcome changed.  Doesn’t necessarily make the reports of him staying wrong.  These things are very fluid.
LOL @ "fluid".  

 
Last ten 1.01s:

Wall: Talked about a ton but many people considered him not lasting without getting a jumper

Kyrie: I don't remember huge hype on Kyrie just knew remember he was going 1 or 2 

AD: I honestly couldn't remember what was said about him 

Bennett: Definitely was hyped up and like I said I think Cleveland regrets not getting Embiid. 

Wiggins: Tons of hype was considered the best talented Prospect since Lebron

KAT: I remember a little hype but nothing too outlandish

Simmons: A lot of folks said Lebron comparisons but there was a select few who I thought had a better comparison of magic do to size and passing ability at the least

Fultz: It was either he or Tatum but there was never a unanimous clear cut favorite. 

Ayton: Definitely had some hype and was hoping CHI would get him or Doncic. Consolation prize of WCJR I'm happy with so far This was suppose to be Micheal Porter Jr Consensus #1 till the back injury which had a ton of hype

Zion: Definitely a ton of hype surrounding him 

I'd put Wiggy in the 2-4 range on the hypemeter
AD & KAT may have ended up more highly-rated than Wiggy by their draft time, but the hype didnt really begin until the 2nd half of their seasons @ Ky, when each their prowess snowballed game-by-game. KAT was not a slamdunk 1.01 til quite late.  Zion (tho RJ had the ranking, Zion had all the talk)/Wiggy/Simmons were the three going-in & coming-out 1.01 guys for their one&dones

 
so Sixers win 25 games this year?
I said if they stay healthy they should be in the top 2 or 3 in the East. However they have zero bench depth as is and I'm not a fan of Harris. I consider him a huge overpay and a B Star nothing more. Not a guy if Embiid were to go down long term Id want carrying the team with a PG who can't shoot. The Sixers better hope Ben finds a shooting ability at some point. I could be wrong on Embiid and he has a long career but I'm not betting on it. If I'm the team considering right now they are in win now mode I'd look into trading Ben as I don't see him as a great fit for the offense. Get a PG who can shoot and possible some shooting depth for the bench and some picks for the guy. I feel as currently built team today ask me how good they are this season and far they get? I wouldn't be surprised at another 2nd round exit if the right match up for the team playing them comes up. I could see them maybe getting to the Conf finals but I don't see anything further then that. I think any of the top teams West wise could beat them in the Finals.

I think Sixers fans greatly overrate this team. Yes they'll be good with the talent they have but also because of how weak the East has been. If KD comes back a season from now the dominate guy as before I would say they could top the Sixers and they won't be a push over this year either. Biggest questions for me on the team are this 

1. Joel EMbiid's Health? This team IMHO goes as far as Joel's body lets them. He's their best player despite some still believing its Simmons

2. Can Ben developing any sort of shot and shoot better FT's? He has a ton of work overall for his game to work on but with the lack of shooters teams will clog the lanes and start daring him the shoot. IMHO if Ben doesn't learn a shot of some sort the Sixers offense could be very inconsistent and stutter at times this coming season

3. How good can Al Horford be with another big? Advanced Metrics don't go too well for this. Also will Horford stay healthy. The guy is on the wrong side of 30 and if he doesn't do well his contract could become an issue

4. Tobi at the 3? Don't see him athletic enough there. He's terrible inconsistent and the team overpaid for him big time. if the Sixers need to rebuild at some point that contract will be a ##### to get rid of. 

5. Bench and depth? I've said this since the Tobi trade but the Sixers bench and depth Im not a fan of. Bolden looks like he should be an overseas player, Scott decent shooter but terrible defender and commits a dumb foul per game, Neto is a decent get but he has injury concerns, Korkmaz (I don't know if anyone could even say if he belongs or not because does the tema even know he's on the roster?), Matisse Thybulle great defender but was really inconsistent shooting but if he progresses well I think they could have something decent there. Shake Milton? Who? Ennis is a decent player but again on a really good team with depth he's not coming off the bench in most cases as the first second or third guy. Zhaire Smith? Team was better off keeping Bridges. The Bench has some question marks a rookie who could produce but again most of these guys shouldn't be coming in as 1st/2nd/3rd options. Most on a very good team with depth would be DNT Coaches decision. This is something the team needs to work on throughout the season and Brand needs to find ways to get better options for. 

 
Bulls just locked up Daniel Gifford the #38 pick in the draft to a 4/6.1 deal 2 fully guaranteed. More signs spelling the end of Cristian Felicio in Chicago to the delight of many Chicago Bulls fans 

 
Yes, they need either some picks or some young players with promising futures to make a deal for Russ worthwhile.   The deal they got for George was just perfect.   
George’s value is much different.   Every team in the league would want him. How many would want Russ on that contract? Maybe three out of 29? The rest would have no interest whatsoever. They aren’t going to give up valuable assets.

 
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George’s value is much different.   Every team in the league would want him. How many would want Russ on that contract? Maybe one or two out of 29? The rest would have no interest whatsoever. They aren’t going to give up valuable assets.
They're certainly not getting the heist they got for George but unless they get some combo of young talent or picks, what's the point?  Theres certainly a lot of middle room between what they got for George and a package of just Dragic and Johnson.  

 
Jordan (15 seasons): 6 championships, 6 Finals MVPs, 5 MVPs, ROY, DPOY, 10 1st team All NBA selections, and 9 1st team All Defensive selections; averaged 30.1 ppg for his career, which is #1 in NBA history

Leonard (8 seasons and counting): 2 championships, 2 Finals MVPs, 0 MVPs, 2 DPOYs, 2 1st team All NBA selections, and 3 1st team All Defensive selections; averaged 17.7 ppg in career to date

No matter what Leonard does this season, it does not put him in any serious conversation for GOAT. If he has 5 more dominant seasons, maybe it could happen, but they would have to be truly dominant, with a lot of earned honors/awards in addition to more championships. He has a long way to go just to crack the top 25 players of all-time, much less get into the GOAT conversation.

Leading 3 franchises to championships hasn't been done because we have only just reached this era of frequent movement of elite players between franchises. Someone will be the first to do it, but that by itself doesn't equate to GOAT discussion.

And, despite winning Finals MVP in 2013-14, Duncan was still the better player in that playoff run, averaging more points on better shooting, more rebounds, more assists, more blocks, and fewer turnovers. This past season was the only one in which Leonard was the alpha player on a championship team.
Ok well not the GOAT as MJ and Lebron are in a tier by themselves but certainly an all time great.  Yes it’s a different era but I’d argue it’s much difficult doing what Kawhi is doing will different systems and different supporting casts than what guys like Magic, Bird etc did.  They had a great core group of guys that played together for years.

Let’s see what happens but if the Clips do win ii is truly and amazing and historic accomplishment.  Especially since it’s the Clippers.  If he had gone to the Lakers and done it not quite the same impact.  I guess we need to sed how it shakes out first.

 
They're certainly not getting the heist they got for George but unless they get some combo of young talent or picks, what's the point?  Theres certainly a lot of middle room between what they got for George and a package of just Dragic and Johnson.  
You get out of Russ' contract. Maybe if they get picks depending on the assets maybe they can move those for someone better. The best case scenario is OKC getting a 3rd team involved in any Westbrook trade. 

 
You get out of Russ' contract. Maybe if they get picks depending on the assets maybe they can move those for someone better. The best case scenario is OKC getting a 3rd team involved in any Westbrook trade. 
Yes, that was mentioned but what good does that do you?  Theres no alpha dogs in next years free agent crop.  

 
Yes, that was mentioned but what good does that do you?  Theres no alpha dogs in next years free agent crop.  
You wait for the prior year hope you get lucky in the lottery. The team won't be bad enough they can tank for the #1 spot and I don't even know who the hell is out there. However 2 yrs from now theres a ton of good players coming out. You got to sell the fans you are playing and building for 2021 FA. 

 
If I have it right.  Butler could have teamed up with Kawhi in LA.  Plus they would have retained all the picks.  Insane on Butler's part if true.

 
They're certainly not getting the heist they got for George but unless they get some combo of young talent or picks, what's the point?  Theres certainly a lot of middle room between what they got for George and a package of just Dragic and Johnson.  
I Think the question of who would give up assets in a heat-okc trade is very interesting, but I think that you are seriously overvaluing Westbrook.  I think that there might be a handful of teams who see him as positive enough based on their specific circumstances (Miami being one of them), but make no mistake that the thunder have virtually no leverage considering Westbrook’s decline and contract size.

 
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These 40%ers are ruinous and will never be traded but to be expunged from the suckage. Even 30% is more than value for most, except that it is necessary to keep teams from loading up on Starballers. Expect no value but contract matchness. NBPA should really be on this else their league look like the American economy

 
They're certainly not getting the heist they got for George but unless they get some combo of young talent or picks, what's the point?  Theres certainly a lot of middle room between what they got for George and a package of just Dragic and Johnson.  
You get contracts that expire sooner letting you tank sooner?  IDK, but I don't think anyone is lining up to send picks for Russ either.

 
How many people were mad at Charlotte for not giving Kemba the super max?

How many of those same people are saying OKC has to unload Russ?

I can think of a handful of guys that are worth the super max. LeBron, Kawhi, Curry, Hezonja, and KD to name a few.

My point is some guys need time to develop. Free Mario!

 
They're certainly not getting the heist they got for George but unless they get some combo of young talent or picks, what's the point?  Theres certainly a lot of middle room between what they got for George and a package of just Dragic and Johnson.  
They need to bottom out and rebuild through the draft, regardless of whether or not they can trade him. That's why the package for George is so incredible. The Thunder got lucky - the Clips were basically trading for Kawhi and George but of course the Thunder only traded George. When you trace it back they traded an expiring Serge Ibaka for all of the stuff they got last night. Pretty remarkable. 

They might have to attach something to Russ to move him. He has the worst contract in the league non-Wall division. They're not trying to clear room to sign other players - this is a long-term thing now. They will be one of the worst teams in the West by design for a few years. 

 
So I heard on the radio today that Atlanta will have $78M in cap space next offseason. They would still have a core of Young, Hunter, Collins, Huerter, Reddish. Could they be a desirable destination for big names next offseason? If so, seems like they have a shot to really take a big step forward next year.

 
So I heard on the radio today that Atlanta will have $78M in cap space next offseason. They would still have a core of Young, Hunter, Collins, Huerter, Reddish. Could they be a desirable destination for big names next offseason? If so, seems like they have a shot to really take a big step forward next year.
they probably could, but the problem is that the FA class is horrific. Maybe if they want to overpay Draymond.

 
So I heard on the radio today that Atlanta will have $78M in cap space next offseason. They would still have a core of Young, Hunter, Collins, Huerter, Reddish. Could they be a desirable destination for big names next offseason? If so, seems like they have a shot to really take a big step forward next year.
They are building a talented young team.  The problem is it’s not the greatest free agent class. Here’s a list.

 
I do think they'll try and do right by Russ to a degree - doubt they ship him to Detroit, and I don't think they want anything to do with Reggie Jackson regardless of the circumstances. Things did not end well in OKC last time 

 
I was thinking Jackson and Snell.
would need a little something else to balance the salaries, but that might make sense.  Detroit somehow has 9 guards on roster (I guess they see Snell, Brown and Thomas as theoretically being able to guard up at SF)

I would suspect that Detroit wants to get out of Drummond's huge option next year.  Obviously OKC would prefer Snell (for the same reason as DET), but depends on OKC's other options.

 

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