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2019 NCAA Tourney Thread: Nation has to watch Virginia again (1 Viewer)

Johnny Rock said:
1. Once again college basketball proves it’s better than the NBA. 

2. If the NBA played defense like these two teams maybe the NBA would have a chance to be the better product. These kids hit shots under pressure AND played hard on D. Who knew?
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:lmao:  it's not like guys in the NBA are the best offensive players in the world or anything.  

 
Good Posting Judge said:
Wait until you see what they were running at the end. Credit to Tony, he had moves and counter-moves.
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TT really took UVa out of rythym changing defenses up on them, often mid-possession.  Thought Bennet made a mistake ATO (6ish?) when they went back to blocker mover on a short clock.  Some brain farts by the kids late getting too deep in the corner let TT back in the game late.  

Hadn't seen the 4-man version of BM they ran with Guy and Gordon exchanging on the wing/point, was a nice wrinkle.  Love the offense but you need fundamentally sound, intelligent players to run it.

Will watch the game again with my son this week.  Lots of good stuff on both sides of the ball from both teams.  Also liked TT's box entry where they go flare, STS back pick, STS flare opposite.

 
Anyone mention the missed double dribble in the Auburn game?  Probably should've given part of the championship trophy to them.  

 
shuke said:
Oh for ####'s sake.  For the past 100 years that TT ball.  Virginia guy knocked it out.  Let's go.
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Especially when you review the play and see that Guy fouled him a half second earlier.  Really hate how big that call was because the refs got it wrong.

 
Johnny Rock said:
1. Once again college basketball proves it’s better than the NBA. 

2. If the NBA played defense like these two teams maybe the NBA would have a chance to be the better product. These kids hit shots under pressure AND played hard on D. Who knew?

3. Every other team that wasn’t in the championship game should watch this game over and over to see what it takes to be the best. Teamwork, unselfishness, hard work and defense. Both teams left it all in the court, and as a basketball fan, I love that and appreciate it.
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1. No it's not.

2. They do play better defense. They're just playing against way better competition.

3. Next year there's a better than average chance a team with elite one and doners will win the title. 

 
Insein said:
1. No it's not.

2. They do play better defense. They're just playing against way better competition.

3. Next year there's a better than average chance a team with elite one and doners will win the title. 
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Yes it is.  Spoiler Alert:  Golden State wins the championship this year.  Again.

 
A 9:20pm start time on the east coast.  I just don't get that.  I didn't even make it to the tip off.  

I did win my office pool, though.  So that was nice.

And I see Virginia Tech is looking at Cronin if UCLA doesn't want him.  So looks like everything's coming up Sheik.

 
shuke said:
I meant, when you're dunking in the final seconds to put the nail in the coffin, you need to throw it down better than that.
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Kinda like 4 burgers per bite - a full 12 oz chug - and singin' a verse a Don't Let GM Go Down On Shuke (P Spock title) while swallowin'? 

Yeah - I  understand, but not every team has a shuke - those be a rare breed. Thankfully. 

 
Insein said:
1. No it's not.

2. They do play better defense. They're just playing against way better competition.

3. Next year there's a better than average chance a team with elite one and doners will win the title. 
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Yeah it is

Numerous videos of this if you look. The whole NBA has become the Harlem Globetrotters with some basketball thrown in at times.

 
Socrates11 said:
Yeah it is

Numerous videos of this if you look. The whole NBA has become the Harlem Globetrotters with some basketball thrown in at times.
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Disagree. The NBA is the most athletic and talented players in the world. Put Harden or Westbrook on either of those teams last night and it's be like watching a grade school game with the one kid you know is going to the pros. Whatever team they are on would win by 50.

 
Insein said:
Disagree. The NBA is the most athletic and talented players in the world. Put Harden or Westbrook on either of those teams last night and it's be like watching a grade school game with the one kid you know is going to the pros. Whatever team they are on would win by 50.
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If your interest is entertainment then then decision is NBA.

If your interest is competition then the decision is college.

 
I thought that was a great game.  The kids played hard.  The coaches are obviously good at what they do.   

I've watched UVA a good bit this year now that I have 2 kids there.   I'm amazed they are able to pull off all the close games they play.  They've only lost 5 games in 2 years.  That's impressive in the ACC.

Tony Bennett runs a great defense and I think he's got a great mind for the game, but I think he runs questionable sets on the offensive end when they get leads.  They were up 10 twice last night and both times didn't get a good shot off for their next 5-8 possessions.   I feel like he often has the chance to get up 15-20, but doesn't and next thing you know it's a tied game.  They tend to pull it off at the end, so nobody seems to notice.  But the whole game I'm thinking UVA should be up 20.  How is this even close.

And as for the NBA discussion, obviously they are better.  But saying Harden or Westbrook on a college team means win by 50 is crazy.  They were in college.  And their teams didn't even win.  The zone defense lets teams minimize great players.  That's why your top 5 NBA picks this year didn't win.  1 player cannot win the game in college.  No matter how talented.  That is why college basketball is fun to watch.  And the NBA is boring.  The NBA is about the best 2 players on the court.  College is about the best 5 on the court.

 
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TheIronSheik said:
A 9:20pm start time on the east coast.  I just don't get that.  I didn't even make it to the tip off.  

I did win my office pool, though.  So that was nice.

And I see Virginia Tech is looking at Cronin if UCLA doesn't want him.  So looks like everything's coming up Sheik.
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i though mike young was already locked in at va tech

 
Won my office pool 60% of the pot ($462.xx) - pure dumb luck - two $5.00 brackets.  I submitted two sheets, one had Duke / Zags and Vill / NC with Duke over NC w/163 tie breaker points.  The other one had Duke / Texas Tech and VA / NC with VA beating TT in the final game with 165 tie breaker points.  I've been playing this for over 30 years, I think the best I've done is top 10 over the years.  Like I said, pure dumb luck.  I would have won first even if TT had won too though (b/c I don't think anyone else had VA and TT in the final) so there wasn't much drama to the game last night and I'll be 100% honest, I really wasn't paying attention to my brackets until I got an e-mail Monday telling me "hey you've won either way." 

 
Long Ball Larry said:
i though mike young was already locked in at va tech
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Maybe I was reading an old article?  It's possible.  I tend to do that a lot.  I just assume that Google news will give me the latest news article and not an article from 10 days ago.  Silly me, I guess.

A quick glance I see most of the articles mentioning VaTech are from 4/3.  So.  Oopsie?

 
Final ESPN bracket standings for the major ranking systems I looked at this year.  

Kenpom:  1,270 points - 97 percentile
Torvik:  1,270 points - 97 percentile
Haslam: 1,330 points - 99 percentile

NET Rankings: 1,240 - 96 percentile

Chalk Bracket: 920 points - 86 percentile
Vegas Futures: 800 points - 73 percentile

First year over the last 5 or 6 I've tracked this where Vegas wasn't on top.  Vegas started out the tournament strong, but Duke getting knocked out and Texas Tech and Auburn advancing far screwed that bracket up.  Pretty much all of the analytics guys had Virginia as the top team so them winning really helped there.  The difference maker for Haslam was that he had Michigan State ranked over Duke pre-tourney and thus correctly picked them in the F4.  It's amazing how many picks you don't have to get right and still be in the 99th percentile.  

 
MAC_32 said:
If your interest is entertainment then then decision is NBA.

If your interest is competition then the decision is college.
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Even if this was objectively true, which it isn't (from some perspectives the college game is more competitive, from other perspectives the NBA is more competitive), what exactly is the difference between competition and entertainment for a fan or spectator?  What is it that makes competitiveness attractive?  The fact that it's entertaining.

Anyway, this whole argument putting the two at odds is kinda silly IMO. A basketball fan can enjoy both and IMO they should. For me the NBA kinda sucked this year because the champ is a foregone conclusion and my favorite NBA team sucked and gave me no joy, but my favorite college teams were surprisingly great. So I watched more college basketball.  Four years ago the opposite was true.  The NBA is clearly superior basketball, while the college game's format makes it more unpredictable and gives it the more exciting (but far shorter) postseason. They're both awesome.

I've never understood why people feel the need to choose sides on this And the best part is- if you like both there's that many more games to watch and enjoy, which makes it even easier to ignore your family, friends and responsibilities!

 
Brunell4MVP said:
Tony Bennett runs a great defense and I think he's got a great mind for the game, but I think he runs questionable sets on the offensive end when they get leads.  They were up 10 twice last night and both times didn't get a good shot off for their next 5-8 possessions.   I feel like he often has the chance to get up 15-20, but doesn't and next thing you know it's a tied game.  They tend to pull it off at the end, so nobody seems to notice.  But the whole game I'm thinking UVA should be up 20.  How is this even close.
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Agree 100%. It doesn't matter since they won, but their inability to deliver the hammer when they're up almost cost them in the last several games. Drove me crazy every time they ran the shot clock down to 5 and either Guy or Jerome would be almost near half court with the ball.

 
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I don't get what it is with some segments of our society that have to minimize accomplishment at every turn.

The criticism of Virginia I've read several times today is, "Well yeah, but they didn't face a #1 or #2 the whole tournament." Hey dummy, that's kind of tough to do if you're a #1 seed yourself.

 
TobiasFunke said:
Even if this was objectively true, which it isn't (from some perspectives the college game is more competitive, from other perspectives the NBA is more competitive), what exactly is the difference between competition and entertainment for a fan or spectator?  What is it that makes competitiveness attractive?  The fact that it's entertaining.

Anyway, this whole argument putting the two at odds is kinda silly IMO. A basketball fan can enjoy both and IMO they should. For me the NBA kinda sucked this year because the champ is a foregone conclusion and my favorite NBA team sucked and gave me no joy, but my favorite college teams were surprisingly great. So I watched more college basketball.  Four years ago the opposite was true.  The NBA is clearly superior basketball, while the college game's format makes it more unpredictable and gives it the more exciting (but far shorter) postseason. They're both awesome.

I've never understood why people feel the need to choose sides on this And the best part is- if you like both there's that many more games to watch and enjoy, which makes it even easier to ignore your family, friends and responsibilities!
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Not just this, but everything.  If you like something, great.  If you don't, also great.  But the best part is, you're actually allowed to like both.  I think a lot of this mentality can be drawn back to advertising.  

But I totally agree with you:  There is no reason to have to like both.  Honestly,  my biggest pet peeve is when people want to change CBB to be more like the NBA.  Just leave them be.  

 
Andy Dufresne said:
I don't get what it is with some segments of our society that have to minimize accomplishment at every turn.

The criticism of Virginia I've read several times today is, "Well yeah, but they didn't face a #1 or #2 the whole tournament." Hey dummy, that's kind of tough to do if you're a #1 seed yourself.
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It was a great game and I’m glad Virginia won.

 
TobiasFunke said:
Are you under the impression that this doesn't happen in the college game too?  Hmm, let's see ...

Here's one of my favorites (good old Josh McRoberts!)

Another one.

Here's one on a game-winner!

And that's just one team.
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"That's not a travel" -Jeff Green

"That's not a travel" -Ref from Auburn/UVA game

"If you freeze it at the 12 second mark of the Grayson Allen video you can see Allen was fouled before the travel" -Ramblin Wreck

 
TobiasFunke said:
Even if this was objectively true, which it isn't (from some perspectives the college game is more competitive, from other perspectives the NBA is more competitive), what exactly is the difference between competition and entertainment for a fan or spectator?  What is it that makes competitiveness attractive?  The fact that it's entertaining.

Anyway, this whole argument putting the two at odds is kinda silly IMO. A basketball fan can enjoy both and IMO they should. For me the NBA kinda sucked this year because the champ is a foregone conclusion and my favorite NBA team sucked and gave me no joy, but my favorite college teams were surprisingly great. So I watched more college basketball.  Four years ago the opposite was true.  The NBA is clearly superior basketball, while the college game's format makes it more unpredictable and gives it the more exciting (but far shorter) postseason. They're both awesome.

I've never understood why people feel the need to choose sides on this And the best part is- if you like both there's that many more games to watch and enjoy, which makes it even easier to ignore your family, friends and responsibilities!
Click to expand...
The NBA is not more competitive.  The outcome is already known.  It's little-to-no different than prior years.  It's a year-round reality tv show centered around high level basketball, but we already know how it ends.  There's a market for that and I think they've done a good job tapping into it.  If you want to watch the best of the best play ball then that's probably the game to watch.

But if you want to watch a sport in which you don't know the outcome then it isn't. College ball has plenty of flaws, but the element of the unknown is one characteristic the NBA cannot compete with.

 
Synthesizer said:
Replay overruled common sense.  That's too bad, we could have witnessed a great ending.
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I don't understand this argument.  It's not like getting the ball knocked away from you was a good play done intentionally. 

Moretti ####ed up, without question. Replay confirmed that his ####-up would be costly, which is always a possibility any time there's a loose ball. Sometimes when you lose possession you get lucky and it doesn't hurt your team, sometimes you don't.  If Moretti/Texas Tech didn't want to to let chance/instant replay decide the outcome of that possession they shouldn't have lost possession of the ball.

BTW Virginia had some 50/50 type stuff go against them, too.  Most notably when Texas Tech was down 1 with 42 seconds left in regulation and missed a three-pointer and Kyle Guy appeared to secure the rebound first but after a scrum the refs called a jump ball. They could easily have called a foul there, since Guy initially won the ball and TT clearly made a ton of contact trying to tie him up. Without that jump ball call, and the possession arrow belonging to Texas Tech, Virginia likely wins the game in regulation. 

Another one- when Hunter secured an off-balance rebound and tried to shove it to Guy with 3 seconds left in regulation and the score tied, the refs could have given him a TO.  On replay it looked like there was an argument that Hunter was still touching the ball when Guy made the TO gesture. If they'd given it to them Virginia would have had 3 seconds left to run a final play in regulation.

 
MAC_32 said:
The NBA is not more competitive.  The outcome is already known.  It's little-to-no different than prior years.  It's a year-round reality tv show centered around high level basketball, but we already know how it ends.  There's a market for that and I think they've done a good job tapping into it.  If you want to watch the best of the best play ball then that's probably the game to watch.

But if you want to watch a sport in which you don't know the outcome then it isn't. College ball has plenty of flaws, but the element of the unknown is one characteristic the NBA cannot compete with.
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That's just one definition of "competitive." What if my definition of "competitive" is the size of the disparity between the best team and a .500 team? Or between the best team and the worst team? What if my definition is "what percentage of teams can realistically find themselves competing for a title in the next decade"?

Also the outcome of an NBA season is "known" for maybe 10% of seasons, and before this era of the Warriors it was probably less than that.  It's the exception, not the rule. 

 
Ugh, I spoke too soon.  We ARE going to have dumb discussions about how this or that call should have changed the outcome of the game, replay delays argle bargle, and so on

 
Aerial Assault said:
Ugh, I spoke too soon.  We ARE going to have dumb discussions about how this or that call should have changed the outcome of the game, replay delays argle bargle, and so on
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Honestly, if you look at the jump ball Virginia had to open the game in the first round, it was clearly angled slightly towards them.  So right from the jump, they were pretty much given the tournament.  I hope next year they allow replay reviews on the opening tip offs.  Otherwise, why even watch, IMO.

 
TobiasFunke said:
That's just one definition of "competitive." What if my definition of "competitive" is the size of the disparity between the best team and a .500 team? Or between the best team and the worst team? What if my definition is "what percentage of teams can realistically find themselves competing for a title in the next decade"?

Also the outcome of an NBA season is "known" for maybe 10% of seasons, and before this era of the Warriors it was probably less than that.  It's the exception, not the rule. 
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All this told me is you like to argue about semantics.  It's very clear what I enjoy.  It's very clear what I'm getting at when I talk about competitiveness.  A team like Texas Tech getting 15 seconds away from cutting down the nets.  A UMBC beating the team that just cut down those nets 13 months ago.  Teams like Loyola and George Mason making a run to the final 4.  The list goes on.  No one has any idea what will happen beginning to end of this tournament.  Even in a chalky year like this one.  This is not the case in the NBA.  And because I either haven't made it clear or you're just choosing not to read it - THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT.  It's just not for me.

If you're still arguing then it's just because you like to argue.

 
Aerial Assault said:
Ugh, I spoke too soon.  We ARE going to have dumb discussions about how this or that call should have changed the outcome of the game, replay delays argle bargle, and so on
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I'm not sure if I hate replay or complaining about the refs more.  Probably just depends on the day.  Unfortunately it's best to expect it after every close game though.  I'm not getting my hopes up about the former going away, but I'd be thrilled if it does.  I'm also going to try my hardest not to complain about it though.  So much great about last night's game to waste my time and energy focusing on the stuff I didn't like about it.  But the loudest people just like to complain and argue, so that's sadly what you're going to read and hear the most of.

 
parasaurolophus said:
"That's not a travel" -Jeff Green

"That's not a travel" -Ref from Auburn/UVA game

"If you freeze it at the 12 second mark of the Grayson Allen video you can see Allen was fouled before the travel" -Ramblin Wreck
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UVA player knocks the ball off the TT player out of bounds.   

"It looked like it was off UVA so it should be TT ball" --- Parasaurolophus

Auburn kid grabs the jersey of UVA kid before the double dribble

"Oh that wasn't foul but it was definitely a double dribble"  -- Parasaurolophus

Auburn kid undercuts shooter fouling him

"Oh fouls in end game situations should not count auburn was robbed"  -- Parasaurolophus

Want to keep playing your dumb childish sore loser game?  You're basically wrong in every instance you whine about.   :lmao:

 
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