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2021-22 NBA Thread: Bill Simmons furiously recording 2.5 hour long pod about how Boston is still better than Golden State (1 Viewer)

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Anarchy99 said:
And does Giannis at this point have carte  blanche to run people over? Yeah, I get it that Boston flops a lot, but there were multiple times last night when he just ran through people. 
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It seems like as long as Giannis spins after he barrels into the defender, it's fine

 
Anarchy99 said:
...And does Giannis at this point have carte  blanche to run people over? Yeah, I get it that Boston flops a lot, but there were multiple times last night when he just ran through people. 
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He's a big guy so sometimes it might look bad but he definitely gets superstar treatment. 

gruecd said:
One thing I'll bet on is that the Bucks won't be limited to just three 3-pointers on Saturday.  That was crazy.
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Celtics shot poorly in game 1 and reversed it in game 2. Bucks did just the opposite. It will be interesting if we get a game where both teams are on.

Jayrod said:
Jaylen Brown quote:
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IMO White's performance in these 2 games has been awful. Smart getting down and dirty is great but just being in over White is a positive. 

 
msudaisy26 said:
gruecd said:
Definitely no "unconditional love" here for Grayson.  I just didn't remember anything from his pro career prior to the Caruso incident, and I was willing to chalk up the college stuff to youthful indiscretion.  Either way, for one reason or another, the idea of Grayson Allen being a "thug" makes me chuckle.
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It depends on your definition of thug. Maybe it is the wrong word. Maybe just dirty or something else. 
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It's just the combination of his highly punchable face and his whining. If he didn't couple those things with his cheap shots, he would just be another guy who you love to have on your team but hate on the other team.

Like these two plays weren't terribly egregious, but that face

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpOeTMwIMJQ

 
gruecd said:
Celtics played great last night.  As much as I ##### about them flopping and embellishing, they're obviously an elite defensive team.  Grant Williams was great on Giannis.  Big, barrel-chested dude reminds me of Anthony Mason back in the day.  If they can consistently guard Giannis 1:1 (and make almost half their threes after shooting just 35% during the regular season), that's huge for them.  

I thought the Bucks played better in the second half, but obviously Boston took their collective foot off the gas a little bit, too.  It'll be interesting to see the adjustments that both teams make going into Saturday.
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This just in:  every team does this. 

Not just the Bucks' opponents.

That includes the Bucks

 
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identikit said:
This just in:  every team does this. 

Not just the Bucks' opponents.

That includes the Bucks
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Yea. Everyone flops and complains. It is annoying as can be, but it is most certainly not the domain of any single player or team. Brook Lopez has never committed a foul in his life. Jayson Tatum flails his arms after every shot attempt and looks at the refs. On and on

 
the moops said:
Yea. Everyone flops and complains. It is annoying as can be, but it is most certainly not the domain of any single player or team. Brook Lopez has never committed a foul in his life. Jayson Tatum flails his arms after every shot attempt and looks at the refs. On and on
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I thought it was interesting commentary when Grayson Allen took the charge from Jason Tatum (in 3rd qtr I believe).  They straight up said, if Grayson doesn't fall to the ground he does NOT get that charging call.  And it's so true.   If he just takes the shoulder then he's just playing defense preventing him from bullying to the lane.  But, if he "flops" then he'll get the call.    I mean, these guys are being conditioned to flop to be able to play any semblence of defense on a mismatch.   Tatum just barrels Allen to the rim every single time if he doesn't try to take a charge and hit the ground.

 
offdee said:
I thought it was interesting commentary when


Grayson



Allen


took the charge from Jason Tatum (in 3rd qtr I believe).  They straight up said, if


Grayson


doesn't fall to the ground he does NOT get that charging call.  And it's so true.   If he just takes the shoulder then he's just playing defense preventing him from bullying to the lane.  But, if he "flops" then he'll get the call.    I mean, these guys are being conditioned to flop to be able to play any semblence of defense on a mismatch.   Tatum just barrels


Allen


to the rim every single time if he doesn't try to take a charge and hit the ground.
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It was a flop though :)

 
the moops said:
It was a flop though :)
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But that's considered good defense in the NBA now when get switched to a mismatch.  It gets you the ball back, it prevents your opponent from scoring any points, and it gets a foul on one of the opponents best players.

If he doesn't flop then Tatum just shoulders him in the chest to the rim and lays it in.  What exactly is Allen supposed to do?

 
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offdee said:
But that's considered good defense in the NBA now when get switched to a mismatch.  It gets you the ball back, it prevents your opponent from scoring any points, and it gets a foul on one of the opponents best players.

If he doesn't flop then Tatum just shoulders him in the chest to the rim and lays it in.  What exactly is


Allen


supposed to do?
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Put on 20 pounds of muscle and stop being a punchable dude?

 
offdee said:
But that's considered good defense in the NBA now when get switched to a mismatch.  It gets you the ball back, it prevents your opponent from scoring any points, and it gets a foul on one of the opponents best players.

If he doesn't flop then Tatum just shoulders him in the chest to the rim and lays it in.  What exactly is Allen supposed to do?
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This all started when Shaq was allowed to just physically bully other post players down low.  If I’m standing still and someone shoves me backward repeatedly (due to greater mass), IMO that is and always should have been an offensive foul.  Mass shouldn’t win the position battle.  It’s just a stupid concept.

 
Alex P Keaton said:
This all started when Shaq was allowed to just physically bully other post players down low.  If I’m standing still and someone shoves me backward repeatedly (due to greater mass), IMO that is and always should have been an offensive foul.  Mass shouldn’t win the position battle.  It’s just a stupid concept.
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So should boxing out be a foul? How about setting a screen?

 
Alex P Keaton said:
This all started when Shaq was allowed to just physically bully other post players down low.  If I’m standing still and someone shoves me backward repeatedly (due to greater mass), IMO that is and always should have been an offensive foul.  Mass shouldn’t win the position battle.  It’s just a stupid concept.
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I'm not sure exactly what the NBA rulebook says on the subject, but in High School, any form of "displacement" in either direction is typically a foul (unless the defender is not in legal guarding position of a ball carrier). 

 
the moops said:
So should boxing out be a foul? How about setting a screen?
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Yeah, the loose ball fouls on people boxing out for rebounds are more annoying than the charge / flop calls. Especially when a smaller guy has position and a big guy gets "pushed" or goes over the top and they call it on a guy with position. Dumb.

 
the moops said:
So should boxing out be a foul? How about setting a screen?
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More often, yes.  Screening requires a stationary player, so it is not what we are talking about.

I call excessive box out fouls at times in HS games and sometimes a player or coach will complain "he was just boxing out!"  To which I reply that they still can't physically move a player out of their spot.  Just because you are backing into someone instead of facing them doesn't give you the right to move them out of their established position.

Again, I am not privy what the NBA rulebook says on the subject.

 
Jayrod said:
I don't know what to think about the BOS/MIL series.

If what happened last night happened in game 1 instead, I'd have been fitting Boston for rings already.  That game 1 debacle is helping temper my expectations and hopefully keeping the team humble and focused. I think Boston is the better team, but they need to get one of the 2 games in Milwaukee...can't go down 3-1.
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i toldja already - the Green is like 2-7 in day games the last two seasons and its always the same way - short shots & long whines. dunno if they'll be as bad @3:30 as they are @1:00, but it's a thing

 
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offdee said:
But that's considered good defense in the NBA now when get switched to a mismatch.  It gets you the ball back, it prevents your opponent from scoring any points, and it gets a foul on one of the opponents best players.

If he doesn't flop then Tatum just shoulders him in the chest to the rim and lays it in.  What exactly is Allen supposed to do?
Click to expand...


The same phenomenon has developed in soccer over the past several decades. In many game situations, a player who is fouled is strongly incentivized to go down rather than fight through the foul and continue the play. Players are often criticized because it is said they should have gone down and tried to draw a clear foul, rather than fighting through it and getting nothing for it.  However, there is some honor among thieves, even the Italians and Brazilians - there is a marked difference between going down easy - essentially embellishing a real foul - as opposed to flopping back to simulate a foul when there was no contact or very minimal contact. The latter is considered unsportsmanlike and bush-league, whereas the former is within the range of acceptable conduct. In either case, in soccer or basketball, its a nightmare for an official to have to make the call in real time.

 
CletiusMaximus said:
The same phenomenon has developed in soccer over the past several decades. In many game situations, a player who is fouled is strongly incentivized to go down rather than fight through the foul and continue the play. Players are often criticized because it is said they should have gone down and tried to draw a clear foul, rather than fighting through it and getting nothing for it.  However, there is some honor among thieves, even the Italians and Brazilians - there is a marked difference between going down easy - essentially embellishing a real foul - as opposed to flopping back to simulate a foul when there was no contact or very minimal contact. The latter is considered unsportsmanlike and bush-league, whereas the former is within the range of acceptable conduct. In either case, in soccer or basketball, its a nightmare for an official to have to make the call in real time.
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Well at least Allen didn’t act like he just got shot with a machine gun like soccer players do.   That’s what we have Marcus Smart for. 

 
One question though - since we’ve established that Grayson is a dirty player and a thug, what does that make Dillon Brooks?

 
This Miami crowd turnout....kinda pathetic.

I shouldn't be surprised though, coming from a fanbase that got locked out trying to re-enter after their team made a comeback in the finals.

 
gruecd said:
One question though - since we’ve established that Grayson is a dirty player and a thug, what does that make Dillon Brooks?
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One play doesn't make a player dirty or a thug. Needs to have a pattern. With that said I have no idea if Brooks has had other incidents. 

 
Nets forward Ben Simmons will undergo surgery on his back on Thursday, according to Shams Charania of The Athletic.

Simmons consulted multiple back specialists and the consensus was that this was the best course of action for his long-term health. The procedure will be a microdiscectomy procedure, which is designed to alleviate pain caused by the herniated disc in Simmons’ back, and further updates will be provided after the procedure. Adrian Wojnarowski of ESPN just reported that Simmons is looking at about a 3-to-4 month recovery period, so the expectation is that he'll be ready to return for training camp, but we'll update you on his progress as we see fit.

I have no love for Simmons, but a lot people in here and the media called him a faker. I think they owe him an apology. 

 
msudaisy26 said:
Nets forward Ben Simmons will undergo surgery on his back on Thursday, according to Shams Charania of The Athletic.

Simmons consulted multiple back specialists and the consensus was that this was the best course of action for his long-term health. The procedure will be a microdiscectomy procedure, which is designed to alleviate pain caused by the herniated disc in Simmons’ back, and further updates will be provided after the procedure. Adrian Wojnarowski of ESPN just reported that Simmons is looking at about a 3-to-4 month recovery period, so the expectation is that he'll be ready to return for training camp, but we'll update you on his progress as we see fit.

I have no love for Simmons, but a lot people in here and the media called him a faker. I think they owe him an apology. 
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He's had a herniated disc since the start of the playoffs last year?

 
msudaisy26 said:
Nets forward Ben Simmons will undergo surgery on his back on Thursday, according to Shams Charania of The Athletic.

Simmons consulted multiple back specialists and the consensus was that this was the best course of action for his long-term health. The procedure will be a microdiscectomy procedure, which is designed to alleviate pain caused by the herniated disc in Simmons’ back, and further updates will be provided after the procedure. Adrian Wojnarowski of ESPN just reported that Simmons is looking at about a 3-to-4 month recovery period, so the expectation is that he'll be ready to return for training camp, but we'll update you on his progress as we see fit.

I have no love for Simmons, but a lot people in here and the media called him a faker. I think they owe him an apology. 
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anyone with back issues can sympathize.

everyone thinks you're full of ####, or lazy, or soft because they can't see the injury but... ####... dudes don't fake that surgery for likes.

 
msudaisy26 said:
Nets forward Ben Simmons will undergo surgery on his back on Thursday, according to Shams Charania of The Athletic.

Simmons consulted multiple back specialists and the consensus was that this was the best course of action for his long-term health. The procedure will be a microdiscectomy procedure, which is designed to alleviate pain caused by the herniated disc in Simmons’ back, and further updates will be provided after the procedure. Adrian Wojnarowski of ESPN just reported that Simmons is looking at about a 3-to-4 month recovery period, so the expectation is that he'll be ready to return for training camp, but we'll update you on his progress as we see fit.

I have no love for Simmons, but a lot people in here and the media called him a faker. I think they owe him an apology. 
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He could have dealt with this long long ago

 
Brooklyn receives:

Ben Simmons

Seth Curry

Andre Drummond

2022 first-round pick (unprotected)

2027 first-round pick (protected)

Philadelphia receives:

James Harden

Paul Millsap

Take Simmons out of that trade. Would anyone want their team to trade that for Harden right now? I wouldn't, but 4 months ago I would have in a second. Crazy how quick things change. 

 
msudaisy26 said:
He could have, but I am talking about the him faking. He clearly wasn't and was accused of it a lot. 
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It’s hard to tell what he was and wasn’t faking. I’ve been around PR folks long enough that I don’t really believe any story that comes out, particularly in a damage control type situation.

 
Alex P Keaton said:
It’s hard to tell what he was and wasn’t faking. I’ve been around PR folks long enough that I don’t really believe any story that comes out, particularly in a damage control type situation.
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Its ok to be skeptical but there’s going to be some record of him actually having the surgery.

 
msudaisy26 said:
Brooklyn receives:

Ben Simmons

Seth Curry

Andre Drummond

2022 first-round pick (unprotected)

2027 first-round pick (protected)

Philadelphia receives:

James Harden

Paul Millsap

Take Simmons out of that trade. Would anyone want their team to trade that for Harden right now? I wouldn't, but 4 months ago I would have in a second. Crazy how quick things change. 
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I saw it happening in Houston to a lesser extent - taking nights off and indifferent to winning.  I thought that may change after he was traded to a contender.  Now he just looks slow and uninspired.  Father Time and a hard partying lifestyle don't mix.

 
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