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2021-22 NBA Thread: Bill Simmons furiously recording 2.5 hour long pod about how Boston is still better than Golden State (1 Viewer)

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Leeroy Jenkins said:
The Warriors are a dynasty lead by Curry.  People are going to think back on this era and think of him as much as they think of Lebron, despite Lebron being the better player overall of all-time.  
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Lebron was a dynasty all by himself from like 2010 to 2018. He went to the finals EVERY YEAR and won 3 titles. 

I don't even like Lebron and now hate Philly fans even more for making me defend him. 

 
GroveDiesel said:
More interesting than who is “better” IMO is just looking at how much each of them changed the game. LeBron has had an enormous impact on the business side of the game, one of the biggest impacts ever. While Curry has had an enormous impact on how the game is played on the court, way more than LeBron IMO.

That doesn’t mean that Curry is a better player than LeBron, but he single-handedly (IMO) changed how the game is played today.
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Mike D'Antoni and the GM of that G League team firing up 300 three point shots per game are aghast at the disrespect here

 
mr. furley said:
weird to see people debating Curry as the greatest player of this era when Andrew Wiggins was the most important player in the Finals
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I'm one of the biggest warrior fans here and I don't think it's close in the Steph-Lebron debate. Lebron is in the GOAT discussion. Steph is not. With that said Andrew Wiggins was the midst important player in the finals not named Stephan Curry. 

 
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Navin Johnson said:
I'm one of the biggest warrior fans here and I don't it's close in the Steph-Lebron debate. Lebron is in the GOAT discussion. Steph is not. With that said Andrew Wiggins was the midst important player in the finals not named Stephan Curry. 
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Lebron should not be in the GOAT discussion.  That's more my point.  

 
Navin Johnson said:
I'm one of the biggest warrior fans here and I don't think it's close in the Steph-Lebron debate. Lebron is in the GOAT discussion. Steph is not. With that said Andrew Wiggins was the midst important player in the finals not named Stephan Curry. 
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Do you keep Steph devalued in your rankings because he's had a great organization around him his entire career?

 
Charlie Harper said:
All the stats say that the Celtics have done well in the regular season against the Warriors. No need to really break those down even more. 

The regular season and the postseason are two different animals. I'm not saying the Warriors don't care about the regular season, but Kerr uses it to experiment and the vets definitely pace themselves. So I don't put much stock into that.

All I hear about from Celtics fans is the Warriors won't be able to score. The biggest mismatch is actually the Celtics offense vs three Warriors defense. Seems as if Celtics fans assume they'll be able to score on the Warriors despite the Dubs having the #2 defense with Draymond missing 30+ games.

The Celtics offense isn't anything special. It relies on Tatum to create everything off PnR  and kick out to mostly career 35% 3 point shooters. How has that worked out for Denver and Dallas? 

Wiggins will be good enough to make life difficult on Tatum and if GP2 and Porter can play then the Dubs have more than enough size to switch everything. 

Only 4 more hours! LFG!
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Celtics scored less than 100 in 4 out of 6 games. 

 
Capella said:
At the same age, Jordan got swept in back to back round one series
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The Warriors beat the Cav 4-1 in 2017 and swept them in 2018.  Curry's team literally swept Lebron in his prime.  I know there were injuries and JR Smith did this thing.  But let's not pretend Jordan lost to his peers at the height of his powers.

 
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Leeroy Jenkins said:
The Warriors are a dynasty lead by Curry.  People are going to think back on this era and think of him as much as they think of Lebron, despite Lebron being the better player overall of all-time.  
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I don't think they get to be called a dynasty with gaps in their championships. They only had one back to back. You can't lose and be considered a dynasty.

 
Chris B. said:
I don't think they get to be called a dynasty with gaps in their championships. They only had one back to back. You can't lose and be considered a dynasty.
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The Spurs were definitely a dynasty. What was it, like 16 years from first to last championship, never missing the playoffs. The amount of winning they did was absurd.

In fact as I think about it, the Dubs really reflect that quite well. Have your 3 stars all develop together under the great coach. Rotate in and out great support players thru the years. Dubs should still have quite a bit left in the tank.

 
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Frostillicus said:
Draymond is a fascinating individual. 
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I think he's just angling for podcast guests and quotes for a book, and good for him. That guy his playing every angle his entire NBA career. He should not be an NBA starter. Can't stand watching him play but I have to give him respect for making the most of every opportunity.

The NBA really needs to go back to punishing players for flopping and #####ing to the refs. The product is looking worse and worse on the court. They put and end to fighting and they can put and end to this as well if they have the will to do it. 

 
wikkidpissah said:
 this post is gonna make it seem like i'm up the DPOY's butt, but this was Maaaacus Smaaaat's first year with the ball. been watching him for eight years now and he's never stopped getting better and i dont expect that to change.
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I thought Smart looked exhausted both physically and mentally by the last few games of the series. All the players were dinged up by the end of the Finals so I don't buy that as an excuse either. His emotional melt down really hurt the Celts in Game 5. In game 6 it was the first time I saw him turn the ball over and just watch the Warriors run down court without even following. 

Playing such a big role in ball handling might have been a bad decision by the end. He was just expending so much energy on Curry(both on the ball and off the ball). He should have a long career as a shut down defender and spot up shooter but I don't think they should pile as much ball handling on him as they do. Either get a true PG in the rotation or have Tatum turn into more of a Luka point-forward imo. People will say he has too many TO's as it is but that's in traffic. The problem with Tatum is he wants to be koby bryant but he'd probably be better off molding his game into more of a Grant Hill/Scotty Pippen direction imo. Handle the ball more and force himself into traffic less. Rod Strickland used to have this innate ability to finish inside no matter how much traffic was around him and it's a skill Tatum just doesn't have no matter how much he tries.

 
Desert_Power said:
Let's go ahead and see your top 10
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reposting, but this is a slightly different conversation  

1.  Jordan
2.  Russell
3.  Lebron
4.  Magic
5.  Wilt
6.  Kareem
7.  Shaq
8.  Duncan
9.  Kobe
10.  Bird
11. Hakeem
12.  Curry
13.  Robertson
14.   Dr. J
15.  KD
16.  Garnett
17.  Barkley
18.  Karl Malone
19. Wade
20.  Iverson (but like 15 to 30 can depend on your feelings any given moment)

 
Frostillicus said:
Can you really be in the discussion for best player of your era when teams actively hunt you on defense?
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Not saying Curry is the best player of the era, but teams hunted Curry, not because he's a terrible defender (he's been average for awhile now and I'd say above average this year), but because he was often just the smallest and is usually surrounded by above average to elite defenders. Klay, Iggy, Draymond, Livingston, Wiggins, GP2, Porter. Teams also wanted to tire Curry out as well. 

So I don't think the fact that teams "hunted" city should be held against him. He's not a bad defender at all. It's not a huge leap to say his impact on his teams offense is larger than LBJ. So overall the net impact to winning is closer than just simply LBJ is elite on both ends and Curry is only on side. 

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
reposting, but this is a slightly different conversation  

1.  Jordan
2.  Russell
3.  Lebron
4.  Magic
5.  Wilt
6.  Kareem
7.  Shaq
8.  Duncan
9.  Kobe
10.  Bird
11. Hakeem
12.  Curry
13.  Robertson
14.   Dr. J
15.  KD
16.  Garnett
17.  Barkley
18.  Karl Malone
19. Wade
20.  Iverson (but like 15 to 30 can depend on your feelings any given moment)
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Seems like top 3 would qualify for in the GOAT discussion, did I miss something?

 
I have a hard time ranking players I never saw play in real time (Russell and Wilt, and I have almost no memory of Dr J), so I will just say that the 10 best players I have seen since I started watching hoops in the early 80s are (not necessarily in order, but it would be pretty close to the order I listed): 

Jordan
LBJ
Kareem
Bird
Magic
Duncan
Hakeem
Curry
Bryant
Shaq

I think Giannis is the most likely active player to break through and get into the top 10.  
 

 
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Having Bill Russell, a man who played in an 8-team league filled with garbage men over Lebron is truly wild to me. I can’t even take that seriously.

Sure he broke down barriers, took an unbelievable amount of abuse from even his home town fans and racked up titles but there is no way he’s the second-best player ever. 

 
Charlie Harper said:
Not saying Curry is the best player of the era, but teams hunted Curry, not because he's a terrible defender (he's been average for awhile now and I'd say above average this year), but because he was often just the smallest and is usually surrounded by above average to elite defenders. Klay, Iggy, Draymond, Livingston, Wiggins, GP2, Porter. Teams also wanted to tire Curry out as well. 
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You're right that Curry being targeted is more about size than skill or effort. I see effort and active hands. Including when he hilariously tried to defend Horford in the post last night. It isn't going to work, but he is sure as hell trying.

Size definitely matters in the NBA and performing like he does at 6'2" is just incredible. Yet, he is still just 6'2" and that alone makes him easier to exploit on defense. It's hard to avoid having that hurt him on an all time ranks, despite him not being able to do a damn thing about it.

 
Capella said:
Having Bill Russell, a man who played in an 8-team league filled with garbage men over Lebron is truly wild to me. I can’t even take that seriously.

Sure he broke down barriers, took an unbelievable amount of abuse from even his home town fans and racked up titles but there is no way he’s the second-best player ever. 
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I don’t think having Russell over Lebron is crazy, but I don’t have it ranked that way.

I do think we should all be able to agree they are a tier above where Curry is. 

 
I’m sure we’re all just shooting the #### here, but it’s good to smell the roses and appreciate that we get to witness and argue about great players playing a damn ballgame on our electronic rectangles. It is a beautiful thing and I feel there is just so much talent in the league right now 
 

/thread
 

 
Capella said:
Having Bill Russell, a man who played in an 8-team league filled with garbage men over Lebron is truly wild to me. I can’t even take that seriously.

Sure he broke down barriers, took an unbelievable amount of abuse from even his home town fans and racked up titles but there is no way he’s the second-best player ever. 
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He won 11 titles in 13 seasons. Was in 12 finals. Was also the head coach for the last 2 rings. Won 54 games in a row in college with 2 titles. I don’t care when you played or who against (and Wilt was his peer) that is impressive. 

 
Capella said:
Having Bill Russell, a man who played in an 8-team league filled with garbage men over Lebron is truly wild to me. I can’t even take that seriously.

Sure he broke down barriers, took an unbelievable amount of abuse from even his home town fans and racked up titles but there is no way he’s the second-best player ever. 
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I never understood this take. Is there any evidence that Bill Russell and/or other Celtics made enough money to be like a a full time, year round player and not need an offseason gig? Honest question, I don't know the history of NBA salaries back in that era.

If he's playing and practicing the same time as everybody else, I don't get the advantage. Unless you're just talking about the fact it's pre-FA era, I guess that's a different discussion.

 
Capella said:
In every single facet of the game except 3 point shooting, Lebron is better than curry. Every single one. 
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Not with ball handling, and movement without the ball is debatable, IMO. 

 
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