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2021-22 NBA Thread: Bill Simmons furiously recording 2.5 hour long pod about how Boston is still better than Golden State (2 Viewers)
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DJackson10
Footballguy
AD was I believed fined for getting ejected a few weeks ago. I making about Paul overall. The dude is losing a lot of money right now.
I honestly can't believe how sensitive you are on this issue
Frostillicus
Footballguy
Wolves game was canceled tonight. Weird.
Deamon
Footballguy
I'm not. You're just super annoying with your unreadable long posts and your absolute obsession with posting about Ben anytime you can.
Also, AD was not fined this year at all, but nice try.
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Deamon
Footballguy
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Deamon
Footballguy
Just Djax making up facts again and finding every way he can to make every post about one dude.
And teams were allowed to play defense back then. Jordan would have a field day in todays game.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
Morant went out with a leg injury (apparent knee) in the game against the Hawks tonight. Hope it was just precautionary and he’s back quickly.
This Jordan stuff has gotten so far out of hand. His teams were loaded. He played with the second best wing player in the NBA. Together they were so long before the league caught up. He didn't will his teams to victory. He played when the talent was weak and spread out, and played with great teammates. They went 55-27 without him.
I mean we had a post about Anthony Mason shutting down LeBron. This has gone way too far. Jordan's era was terrible.
I mean we had a post about Anthony Mason shutting down LeBron. This has gone way too far. Jordan's era was terrible.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
I love how LeBron being a goober turns in to Jordan being overrated.
pantherclub
Footballguy
You can't possibly be serious. In terms of talent, this is the most watered-down era in NBA history. In addition, the game was a thousand times more physical back then and teams were allowed to play defense. When players drove to the basket back then there was a good chance of them getting knocked to the ground. Today's NBA is soft and you get called for a foul if you breathe on a player.
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STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
I was a Knicks fan and hated Jordan. Sadly you’re so wrong.
Lebron would have bowed down to Jordan like all the other did. There can be only one king and Le’bron isn’t it.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Capella
Footballguy
LOL the 80s had dudes who looked like car mechanics out there playing ball. Give me a break. The elite guys like Jordan, Magic, Nique etc could have played in any era but spare me “the talent was better” argument when Bill Laimbeer was a crucial player on a title winning team. Get out of here with that.
Capella
Footballguy
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Common sense is not allowed in this thread now. As the thread starter, how did you not get that memo?
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Let's not forget how some talk about those 90s Knicks teams like they were some juggernaut that only didn't get over the hump because of Jordan's ability to jump buildings in a single bound, when, really, it was Patrick Ewing and a bunch of guys who would have been backups on the Pistons Bad Boys championship teams.
Boston
Footballguy
No one talks about those Knick teams that way…they were a bunch of overachievers who had one of the best Coaches in NBA history who figured out how to get the most out of them.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
I disagree. You give those guys in the 80s-90s the same resources from a young age as the guys today and those car salesman destroy mental midgets like Ben Simmons.
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
Ahhhh the hyperbole parade is in town.
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
Agreed. Yes, the older generation did not have the benefits of 3 decades of medical advancements but they were on a level playing field as the others in their league.
Im not sure how you could ever argue that todays pampered players aren't mentally inferior to their predecessors.
Boston
Footballguy
I have said this before...eat a diet of fried food three times a day, smoke a pack of butts a day, travel by train to away games drinking scotch the whole way, have no shooting coach/nutritionist/personal trainer/personal assistant and have a real job like selling insurance in the offseason...do that and go for 25/10 and I will be really impressed.
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
The takes in here are starting to get so stupid. It’s ok if you prefer the modern game but re-writing history to do so is laughable.
Frostillicus
Footballguy
I'll just add that those who claim "there's no defense in today's NBA" either don't watch or don't understand the game at all. Being allowed to hand check, hold, and knock players to the ground isn't defense. Watch a game today. Defensive schemes are far more sophisticated and, in the playoffs, specifically tailored to the opponent.
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
If somebody goes for a dunk today the defenders in the lane part like Moses and the Red Sea. That was not alway the case.
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GroveDiesel
Footballguy
OSU playing so slow and running off so much clock is bizarre and stupid.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
That is a horrible holding call.
Navin Johnson
Footballguy
It was physical because nobody could score from behind the arc and the game often resembled a rugby scrum. Anything pre-mid-90s is borderline unwatchable.
Navin Johnson
Footballguy
Right, give them the same perks as today's players and guys like Stockton might have actually developed an off hand.
Kev4029
Footballguy
I love the defense was better in the 80s arguments that pop up every now and then here. Manute Bol blocked 5 shots a game and made an all defense team. He was 7'7", weighed as much as Chris Paul, and moved as well as the 50 year old playing games at the YMCA.
The illegal defense rule made the game stagnant where nobody was forced to play defense and shooters were few and far between so it was a game of awful one on one basketball where occasionally there would be a hard foul in the paint. Trying to injure a player going to the hoop hardly constitutes good defense.
I don't really care for the so and so would be better in today's NBA or the old NBA because of the rules or talent or whatever because the eras have been so much different. I can unequivocally say modern NBA is a significant improvement in pure quality than an previous era and the effort level is levels above what it has been previously as well.
The illegal defense rule made the game stagnant where nobody was forced to play defense and shooters were few and far between so it was a game of awful one on one basketball where occasionally there would be a hard foul in the paint. Trying to injure a player going to the hoop hardly constitutes good defense.
I don't really care for the so and so would be better in today's NBA or the old NBA because of the rules or talent or whatever because the eras have been so much different. I can unequivocally say modern NBA is a significant improvement in pure quality than an previous era and the effort level is levels above what it has been previously as well.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Yes, and just think, some think a physical freak like James wouldn't have done well in a physical era. You can't make this stuff up.
GordonGekko
Footballguy
Whatever is allowed in the era of basketball it was played was defense. If the rules allow you to hand check, that's defense. When the league took that away, the players adjusted.
The modern game is built upon the "Space And Pace" style format. What in the entire world are you even talking about? Devaluation of low post offense ( low overall "value" shots) and devaluation of contested rebounds plus the changes made since the Malice In The Palace means less overall hard contact between players.
The game has shifted into three core positions - Switchable 3 And D wing, Lead "attack" guard and floor spacing rim protector. The old consistent Double Doubles Power Forward has all but been phased out of the modern game. The mid range jump shooting slower small forward type, guys who survived not being cast out as tweeners, has also been nearly phased out of the game.
Defensive schemes adapted to having more players who could switch. They didn't get more sophisticated, there was just more variable ability for one defender to handle different matchups. That's not sophistication, that's an expansion of roles.
The playoffs, rotations shorten, ball security is more paramount, end of the shot conversion rates are more critical, and teams focus on elimination shots at the rim, transition opportunities and focus on contesting three point shots. Giving other playoff teams the mid range jumper, something most teams don't practice much anymore in their sets or most players hone in their arsenal is not some kind of Jedi mind trick.
Defense is limited by three things.
1) If the player has baseline NBA athleticism and fundamentals.
2) If the player is high BBIQ enough to operate on defense effectively. Lots of players are just stupid
3) If the player is willing to commit and give effort on D. Much of what is needed is tedious grind and minutiae, over and over again.
Here's the point where you'll reply with bait. Point to note, once people start to figure you are the one hitting the Report Button in the NBA thread, that's not going to end well for you. Whatever people don't like about others in here, including me and including DJackson, no one loves a snitch.
GordonGekko
Footballguy
Yes, and just think, some think a physical freak like James wouldn't have done well in a physical era. You can't make this stuff up.
If you put LBJ in a previous era, without the cutting edge PEDs, and with a more physical style of play, he'd get regularly beat down. In the mid 90s, in that era that most people are talking about here, there was a real shortage of effective rim protection. LBJ, even at 6'9, would have had to bulk up more and play center in that era.
Pivots in that timeline, the abuse they took shortened their overall careers. However big man scarcity also provided a means for some to have extremely long careers ( like Kevin Willis, Cliff Robinson, etc, etc)
LBJ gets to give as much free contact as he has wanted nearly all his career. Other players could not do the same in return. No ref wanted to be in a position to foul LBJ out and have to answer to David Stern and then to Adam Silver over it. However in a previous era, the established culture was that free hard contact was always given back.
Your body can only take so many hits. We going to pretend that Willis, Oakley, Rodman, XMan, Laimbeer, Thorpe, Mahorn, Ewing and the entire class of Six Hard Fouls big men in the Jeff Ruland mold back then wouldn't have hammered LBJ into the ground? Even some of the guards like Vernon Maxwell would laid a deep beatdown on him.
It's not just the hard hits but the frequency and regularity of hard hits that would pose a problem.
Good stuff here. Jordan dealt with this and never shied away from it. He had unmatched mental toughness and fought through this to become great. Lebron is physically gifted and talented but he is mentally soft compared to Jordan. In today's NBA where defense is barely played, Jordan would have a field day.
Frostillicus
Footballguy
Wolves!
Frostillicus
Footballguy
Never reported anyone. I'm actually one of the people who reads and enjoys most of your posts.
DJackson10
Footballguy
We'd all love to know what drugs you are taking, where we can purchase and how affordable they are? or you probably should post when drinking.
This era might be the biggest bunch of babies ever. Oh cool they are more athletic. That doesn't mean a thing when most of these guys don't put in the work, want to play with friends and the minute you constructively criticize them they cry to their agents and want to be traded. MJ's era had guys playing for the Jersey not just themselves. You had actual rivalries and guys wanting to prove they are the best wanting to go up against the best. Today's players want to all team up because they are afraid of that competitive competition. More of the good players on fewer teams is bad in general.
DJackson10
Footballguy
Yes, and just think, some think a physical freak like James wouldn't have done well in a physical era. You can't make this stuff up.
We're more so talking about how mentally weak Lebron is. He wouldn't have lasted in that era at all. Like someone else said a tweeter posted MJ would've shrugged it off and then went off for 30 points and went over and laughed at them after. Lebron decided to not ignore the criticism and have the fans ejected essentially telling everyone the fans won and got into his head. They got the reaction they wanted from him. Now if you heard some of the stuff back then today Lebron would be wanting everyone of those guys suspended for life from the league. Physically he can probably last however lets even the playing field and give Lebron the same physical advantages of getting better as those guys had then. No advanced medicine or anything.
DJackson10
Footballguy
Mentally is key here. Could Lebron handle the Jordan Rules defense physically? Probably but the mental wear and tear it took on MJ and given how frequent everyone talks about how Lebron has always been weak mentally he'd have crumbled to the point he may have had to retire. No one I don't think is disputing Lebron with his physique couldn't handle contact. Yes he'd have had to bulk up a bit which would've had a negative effect on his speed and movement. We're questioning how mentally tough this guy could be in that era. If Lebron's mental toughness it is anything like today then he'd crumble. Probably wouldn't last 5 yrs in the league.
DJackson10
Footballguy
I don't think @Frostillicus is the snitch. I have my list of people who I think could be or would. I won't call them out publicly and cause more issues and risk being banned though. He can debate without throwing the personal insults like some others enjoy here.
Instinctive
Footballguy
1. I think if LeBron was transported 20 years earlier he's Karl Malone with handles and more athleticism. I know we love Jordan's mental and Malone's was trash...but if Malone could run faster, jump higher, shoot better, and handle the ball it may not have mattered. And all the jokers trashing LeBron on mentality are nuts. I used to see 21 year olds melt down in front of crowds of hundreds...dude came in at 18 on the biggest stage and was immediately unflappable and has never done anything but somehow exceed expectations.
2. Dirk is still somehow underrated
3. I really expected to see more discussion of KAT outdueling Embiid in double OT.
2. Dirk is still somehow underrated
3. I really expected to see more discussion of KAT outdueling Embiid in double OT.
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