holy ####
EDT: To everyone but Djax, what do you think Philly would have to realistically add to Ben to get him?
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2021-22 NBA Thread: Bill Simmons furiously recording 2.5 hour long pod about how Boston is still better than Golden State (1 Viewer)
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EDT: To everyone but Djax, what do you think Philly would have to realistically add to Ben to get him?
Eephus
Footballguy
There's an $11M salary difference to make up. Danny Green's expiring contract fits the easiest but I think that's a no go from the Nets' perspective. Seth Curry is another option but he seems a bit redundant with Patty Mills. After those two, it's tougher to make the numbers work because it would involve three players from the Sixers' side.
I still think it makes more sense for Brooklyn to keep Harden and do a sign and trade during the offseason.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Simmons’ vaccination status may be an issue in NY.
Also, there will be calls for a tampering investigation against Philly.
Also, there will be calls for a tampering investigation against Philly.
DJackson10
Footballguy
I don't get this trade for either side. Harden is on a fast decline and now that the NBA took away his foul call advantage shot flopping his FT per game and PPG have gone down further. Plus he's getting up there in age and would be a negative to the Sixers defense
For a Nets stand point why would KD want to play with Ben Simmons or any player want to play with this guy. Any GM who trades for this guy is putting a big red sign telling their employer PLEASE FIRE ME FOR BEING AN IDIOT!!!!! Team cancer, can't shoot, weak mentally, uncoachable, big contract, soft, lack of aggressiveness, and we didn't even get to how bad his agent is.
Trades like this never work in the long run for either side. Also if this trade does go through I fully expect a full investigation into both clubs for possible tampering.
DJackson10
Footballguy
I heard teams might want the Nets investigated for it as well. From what I read there's people around the league upset with both parties involved.
MAC_32
Footballguy
This is probably a dumb question, but if traded can Rubio be brought back next year? I recall a rule change preventing that a few years ago, but maybe I'm making stuff up. This year's important, but I'm much more interested in maximizing next year's team than this one. I want Rubio back.
MAC_32
Footballguy
I don't know how McCollum is possible (would love to be wrong...within reason), but what's this about Beal?
MAC_32
Footballguy
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Kev4029
Footballguy
There was reporting this week that he got vaccinated. Regarding the second part, if the Nets make the trade, it would be difficult to turn around and claim tampering.
Kev4029
Footballguy
Kev4029
Footballguy
I'm not going to lie and say I've watched a single minute of the Wizards this year but there are zero metrics that point to Avdija being even a capable secondary ball handler. He averages like 3 assists per 100 possessions (that's like center level assists), 0.2 isolations per game (that's 10 or 11 isolation plays all season), 0.6 pick and rolls per game, and 2.9 drives per game.
Frostillicus
Footballguy
Frostillicus
Footballguy
I think of the Cavs and Wolves as similar in that they weren't playoff teams last season but things are clicking this year (although the Cavs are significantly ahead of the Wolves) and they're young teams. I wouldn't want to break up the Wolves unless it was for a significant return, other than a few obvious trade candidates. I'd think Cleveland would be thinking the same - with Rubio and obvious trade candidate.
Frostillicus
Footballguy
Although Sexton, Rubio, and Okoro work to get Beal..........................
MAC_32
Footballguy
Right, this year's about getting playoff experience with the goal next year may be something more. No matter what happens this spring/summer the cavs aren't winning a ship. The playoffs are different. Experience is important though. I have no issue making a move to better this year's team, just as long as it doesn't impact next year.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
AYOOOOOOOOO
Named to Rising Stars game (duh). As impressive as any rookie that's stepped onto an NBA floor this season. Guy literally has changed roles on the fly. Invaluable filling in in 2 different roles for Lavine and Ball. He's not going to win ROY (unless Ball/Caruso are gone duration of season) but he's in the conversation for me.
Edit: Oh yeah he sealed the game tonight
Named to Rising Stars game (duh). As impressive as any rookie that's stepped onto an NBA floor this season. Guy literally has changed roles on the fly. Invaluable filling in in 2 different roles for Lavine and Ball. He's not going to win ROY (unless Ball/Caruso are gone duration of season) but he's in the conversation for me.
Edit: Oh yeah he sealed the game tonight
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GordonGekko
Footballguy
Rubio signed as a street free agent with the Suns in 2019. That means he will have earned his full Bird Rights with the Cavs this offseason.
There are three roads here with Cleveland.
The Cavs can trade him now in some kind of deal where he is salary ballast and hope to resign him in the offseason.
The Cavs can renounce his rights ( flushing his Bird Rights and resetting his Bird clock) and resign him
The Cavs can resign him without renouncing him thus keeping his full Bird Rights.
The benefit of full Bird Rights is you can over the salary cap to resign the player. This is how the Warriors have kept that core together for so long and part of the reason why they were able to carve out enough cap space to sign Kevin Durant as a free agent.
The first scenario, the other team will hold his full Bird Rights. This would create a limitation on the Cavs is they are in a salary crunch and want to have Rubio on their roster. They need to have enough open cap space to sign him if it's any contract above the Veteran's Minimum ( the DVE)
The 2nd scenario seems kind of nonsensical on it's face and it only works for a situation like Frank Ntilikina and the Knicks. The French Prince was a pretty mediocre player and the Knicks weren't going to sign him to a long term extension after his rookie deal and they weren't going to pay him his qualifying offer for his 5th year in the league (something nutty like 9 million) Renouncing him would flush his full Bird Rights ( which he earned after his third full season in the league) but allow the Knicks to not be locked into a qualifying offer sheet situation. They could then just sign him as a street free agent for the veteran's minimum. The market would be so bare for The French Prince where that might have been his only option to stay in the league ( He ended up in Dallas)
The status of your Bird Rights is a huge deal for these players. Julius Randle was allowed to walk from the Lakers. His Bird Rights clock reset. That means the Pelicans got him as a street free agent. But he left the Pelicans after one year because they weren't going to resign him to a long term deal, thus his Bird Rights clock reset again. When he signed a long term deal with the Knicks, he did so after his 2nd year with them, so he could only sign under Early Bird Rights conditions and not full Bird Rights conditions. The difference is an extra year and lots of money. Had Randle signed with the Knicks instead of the Pelicans, he would have been in his third season and reearned his full Bird Rights timed with his best season ever.
It's better to be traded to a new team than to sign there as a street free agent. Kevin Durant was traded to the Nets from the Warriors because those full Bird Rights were very valuable in terms of cap management for Brooklyn. It's how the Warriors got DLo and how DLo turned into Wiggins and Kuminga. GSW got those two useful and valuable players for essentially the value of Durant's full Bird Rights.
So if the Cavs trade Rubio this week, his new team holds his full Bird Rights. In order for Cleveland to resign him, they can go to a sign and trade with that team ( unlikely) or they can hope that team renounces the rights to Rubio.
Why does a team renounce a player? It removes the "cap hold" that player represents on the salary cap. Frank Ntilikina represented a cap hold of something like 9 million last offseason on the Knicks roster and total cap sheet. That means the Knicks can't spend that money until they make a decision him. Resign him or cut him loose to the open market. The purpose of this is to prevent "cash rich" teams like the Knicks to sign a crap load of expensive free agents, then fill their cap space, then sign all their own free agents with Bird Rights to go over the cap because they can afford the luxury and repeater tax.
The "cap hold" is a mechanism to prevent a team like the Knicks from outspending it's financial leverage to an advantage that a team like the Kings or the Hawks don't have.
There are three general rules with inseason trading. You can't trade guys you've signed to consecutive one year deals. The Knicks couldn't trade Elfrid Payton without his consent last year. The OKC Thunder couldn't trade Nerlens Noel when they signed him to another one year deal before he signed with the Knicks. You can't trade a free agent you signed that offseason before the trade deadline. The Knicks could trade Kevin Knox anytime they wanted this year, but they can't trade Evan Fournier until just recently at the mark of this years deadline. You can't trade as "lending" You can't trade with a team and then later exchange those two same players again for each other in the same year. If Team A needs a 3rd string center and Team B needs a third string PG, you can't trade those guys, to fill some roster holes, then trade them again for each other to get back to your original roster. IIRC, there is a full league calendar year turnaround time stamp required to move the same players for each other later.
DJackson10
Footballguy
I might have this wrong but it was inferred by Hayes that both teams talked to the players and or their agents illegal. It was on his latest podcast where he goes into more detail on it. Short version is multiple people around the league feel both teams are pulling some funny business here and want the league to make sure if this trade goes through it wasn't tampering.
DJackson10
Footballguy
Encyclopedia Brown
Footballguy
Luka's full-season stats would look even more impressive if he didn't spend the first two months getting his conditioning in order.
I saw a couple games around Christmas where he was chunky, winded and lethargic. Teams were trapping him and he lacked the energy to get around or through them, and they screened him relentlessly.
Tonight, on the ESPN broadcast he looks fifteen pounds lighter, is zipping around with such quickness and change of pace that he has the Philadelphia defense in total disarray. He is getting up the floor so fast they can't set-up for him.
His last 10 games he's produced a cool 29/9/9.
I saw a couple games around Christmas where he was chunky, winded and lethargic. Teams were trapping him and he lacked the energy to get around or through them, and they screened him relentlessly.
Tonight, on the ESPN broadcast he looks fifteen pounds lighter, is zipping around with such quickness and change of pace that he has the Philadelphia defense in total disarray. He is getting up the floor so fast they can't set-up for him.
His last 10 games he's produced a cool 29/9/9.
Mr Anonymous
Footballguy
Imagine writing that long of a post about Ricky Rubio
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
How is it tampering asking if a player will be happy or resign with a new team if traded?
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Frostillicus
Footballguy
Wolves after Marcus Smaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaart apparently. Either Taurean Prince or Malik Beasley work moneywise. Prince is $13m expiring and Beasley is $14.5 with this year and next still on the books. I don't know the Celtics tax situation, but the money also works if it's Prince and Josh Okogie ($4m expiring) who is like a Walmart store brand version of Smart with potential to get better. It would be pretty badass to close out a game with a Smart/Pat Bev backcourt.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Frostillicus
Footballguy
So the Wolves give Beasley and a 2nd round pick to Boston, Boston sends Smart to Minn and Schroeder to OKC, and the Wolves throw a 2nd to OKC to take on Schroeder for the rest of the year. Celtics save almost $6M and get under the tax.
Frostillicus
Footballguy
If Schoreder is too good Celtics could throw in whatever dumb money they don't want to OKC.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
as i said upthread, there was a rumored team meeting a wk ago Monday, but reports came out later that it was Smaaaat saying goodbye to his team, certain he was gone by the deadline. of course the Green have won by 20 every game since, so......
ETA: but Celts preppie owners are cheap and cashflow poor.
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the moops
Footballguy
You gotta throw a first round pick or a real player if they want Smart. Beasley is trash.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
Yeah, Schroeder's a dump guy, but Smaaaat aint. Would likely take 2 1sts and an expiring from a contender. he offers sumn NObody else has, for good or ill
Frostillicus
Footballguy
Jayrod
Footballguy
Smart is highly regarded among much of the Boston faithful. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth among the fanbase if he is traded for anything short of a massive haul.
Not sure if Tatum actually listens to Smart, but he's the only guy on the team with a chance at getting in his ear effectively. Also don't know of many players that can complement two guys who need the ball a lot to be successful as well as him. His defense and playmaking are exactly what the Celtics need.
Basically, I think trading Smart is a mistake if the return isn't very high.
Not sure if Tatum actually listens to Smart, but he's the only guy on the team with a chance at getting in his ear effectively. Also don't know of many players that can complement two guys who need the ball a lot to be successful as well as him. His defense and playmaking are exactly what the Celtics need.
Basically, I think trading Smart is a mistake if the return isn't very high.
DJackson10
Footballguy
@Juxtatarot explained it a little better but the short version is that the 76ers are possible talking to Harden personally while hes under contract with the Nets which is against CBA guidelines as well as teams talking about players not on their team and being interested in said player publicly. Basically the team can't talk to the player they are trading for until the trade is complete. They can send feelers to an agent I believe on how likely they might resign if it's an expiring contract but they can't discuss numbers yrs and incentives and other things. Most of this is done through loopholes of players talking to players which Lebron has been doing for yrs and how LBJ, Bosh and Wade all got together in MIA.
However given the delicateness of the trade and the fact one of the Sixers owners is friends with Harden there's reason to believe tamper/collusion maybe involved. Rubin can be friends with Harden but by no means can they talk about Harden coming to play for his team or Harden talking to him about it. General basketball talk is on the table still. Just can't go into trying to get said player to join you.
Capella
Footballguy
Kev4029
Footballguy
So the Lakers have to be looking to trade Westbrook for literally anything that can make it in the court right now, right? He has been just run of the mill bad with either Davis or lebron hurt, but he's been like the worst player in the NBA with both of them on the court.
How about a Westbrook + THT + lightly protected '27 first for Eric Gordon and John wall? Seems like a strong win-win if John wall can actually play still.
How about a Westbrook + THT + lightly protected '27 first for Eric Gordon and John wall? Seems like a strong win-win if John wall can actually play still.
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
I don't do that if I'm Houston. Can the Lakers even do that deal with salaries?
I don't think they'll find a taker for Westbrook this season. I think if Nunn were healthy that Westbrook would be coming off the bench. They hit big on Monk and Nunn's another that can score off the ball. I'm not a big fan of TNT and think he'd be DNP-CD right now if Nunn were healthy.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
It works in a trade machine although the Lakers would be adding $8.8 million in salary this year when they already have a $43 million luxury tax bill. It’s not my money but I question whether this trade moves the needle enough to merit that. Next season would have a huge tax bill too.
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DJackson10
Footballguy
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
The more desirable of westbrook/wall will be the one more likely to accept buyout next year.
It's something that sparked Derrick Roses career (coming off bench). At this point it's the obvious move....and you got to try something different. To me, Rose is one of the mid-career all time turnaround stories. Out of the league by 30 with overseas looking like his only basketball future
It's the reality of many former individual stars ...they can't transition to a complimentary role late in career. Why I'm so impressed with guys that are able to do it.
It's something that sparked Derrick Roses career (coming off bench). At this point it's the obvious move....and you got to try something different. To me, Rose is one of the mid-career all time turnaround stories. Out of the league by 30 with overseas looking like his only basketball future
It's the reality of many former individual stars ...they can't transition to a complimentary role late in career. Why I'm so impressed with guys that are able to do it.
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Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
Shams: LeVert to Cavs for Rubio a first and 2 2nds. Let the floodgates open 
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Cavs not messing around!
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
JMO but they've got the ammo to make another major move (Sexton/Love/Lauri (if able to deal)/Okoro). Maybe even LeVert himself.
I love LeVert as a 6th man type....just not sold on him as a 1st unit complimentary player....or "the guy" as a starter on a good team.
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Frostillicus
Footballguy
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
Pacers Blazers fire sales need to happen
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
Nothing worse than a crappy veteran team
Burn it Down
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Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Pacers are an anti-tanking organization. It will be interesting to see what their team looks like next week. I’m sure they aren’t done.
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
To what depths will Bulls go to add a big 
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